To M5R2 or Not To M5R2.. That is the question

fturner

Registered User
Ok guys, I know this has been asked before but at this point, its not the "fun" factor I need your opinion on, as I prefer to have a manual over an automatic any day.... but after ALOT of reading, I'm starting to get concerned about how I can keep the M5R2 alive...

Yeah, I can run with the brass blockers, but all I read is how "blocky" the shifting is, meanwhile I'm after a very smooth shift at high RPM's....

There's the T5 option, but because I am on my own with this and I can't fab parts to make the T5 work, and unless I get some kind of after market upgrade to handle the power, the T5 won't last long by the looks of things, I guess its a no go :confused: .

Then there's the T56, but the cost and everything... and again thats needs fab work to make it work........

I'm beginning to think I should stick with the AOD, but look at a lentech or art carr option, with some kind of shift kit on it.....

Of course Eggz has stated they can fab anything, so maybe this could be a "money" making concern to support the T5 or T56 and make install kits ;).

Anyways, your thoughts folks..... I'd like a solution that I can handle seeing as I'm on my own out here.

Frit
 
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Fraser,

I agree that a standard T5 probably won't live too long in an SC. However, one of the WorldClass T5's, or TKO's might survive.

If you want to make a T5 work, you should check out the tech articles. There is one in there about swapping a T5 into a 5.0L LX. It does a good job of outlining the sort of things that need to be done to get a hydraulic clutch intsalled, and also to relocate the shifter turret back sufficiently for the T-Bird interior.

Otherwise, MN12 Performance (Rich) was selling a special bracket for a while to relocate the shift turret. You may want to look into that.

The T5 would shift smoother than the M5R2, but it doesn't have the torque handling capacity in stock form.

...Just my $0.02 worth.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Fraser,

When I lost 2nd and 3rd gear in my 5 speed, I searched everywhere to get a decent replacement since the stock blockers were very hard to obtain, after putting together 3 different trannies, I still was without 2nd and 3rd replacements, so I did them all new with the brass ones, after talking to my tranny guy, he said that the brass ones will take time to wear in, but will out last and withstand the heat alot more from speed shifting then the stock componets, after about 3000kms on my new tranny it no longer has the "blocky" shifting, I sped shifted it all day around 4500 rpm at the track when I went, with no problems, he did add a additive to help with the speed shifting, to mesh things alot better, but If I were to do it all again, I would just have gone with these from the get go and saved the driving around and money I wasted on 2 other trannies.

Bruce
 
There is no reason to believe that the M5R2 tranny is going to have long term reliability issues. People who have had problems can be put into 2 catagories: 1) abuse, and 2) 100K+ mileage.

Bottom line is that a properly rebuilt tranny will last you easily another 100K miles and more if used normally. Parts availability is not the biggest problem.

Of greater concern is the swap itself. You will need all the donor parts and the best way to get them is with a 5spd parts car. The dash wiring harness is even different. You will have to figure out how to integrate the wiring so that your clutch switch works properly along with your starter interlock and cruise control/idle strategy on the EEC. Some people just short out all the wires so that the car starts without pushing in the clutch and the cruise doesn't respond to clutch or shifter movements but that all makes it a hacked up install.

Regarding shifting quality of the T5 vs. M5R2 the idea that the T5 has any better qualities is a misnomer. The T5 a notchy shifting transmission and it's not as strong. When my XR7 was new and my good friend had a current model Mustang GT we both drove both cars and I assure you the XR7 shifted much nicer. Notchiness has always been a gripe of the T5 tranny. The plus of the T5 is unlimited replacement parts and available upgrades. Expect to spend money on upgrades though just like you will on your AOD.

Of anyone who has ever done the swap, other than all the cussing during the job, no one has ever regretted it. :)
 
David, what was that combination of fluid and additive for the M5R2 that you mentioned to me? I remember you saying that it shifted quite nicely, even with the brass synchro rings.


cheers
Ed N.
 
Lucas additive works good. Follow instructions on the bottle. Fibre rings also require friction modifier. That's about it.
 
I use Lucas in everything. Generators, mowers, cars, manual trannies..... Great stuff. I've never had an lubrication related failure. I'll get back to you on how long Lucas ATF additive extends the life of a 300,000 km Chrysler 4 speed auto. It was slipping pretty bad so I invested $20 in a bottle of Lucas and the symptoms dissappeared right away. 6,000 kms and counting.......
 
I used it when I was putting the top in end back together, like the valve train, the cam, lifters etc. I had absolutely no noise when I started the car up.

I was told to use it instead of molly lube etc as all the performance shops around here swear by the stuff when rebuilding.

Now that I can work on my car inside my barn (just need to buy a salamander for heat), and she's away for the winter WOOHOOO!!!! I'll be swapping in the M5R2 after I completely rebuild it with fibre blockers etc from Southern Gear.

I'd like to go with the 11" alum. flywheel and a stage 1 clutch though.... any recommendations and prices?

Frit
 
Fraser, my suggestion would be to go with a CenterForce Dual-Friction clutch. The SPEC clutches are great as far as transmitting the power, but they are quite stiff and very grabby. I have a Stage 2 in my car, and if I was to do it over again, I would have gone with something else.


cheers
Ed N.
 
I have the same spec stage 2 as well and I'm going to say the same as ED did stay away from the spec unless you want drag race a lot.:D Other wise there vary grabby and not to nice to drive on the street a lot.
 
Which Lucas additive have you guys used in the 5 speed?

I used 2 bottles of their ATF additive in my ex-girlfriend's 200+k Nissan. She was told that the car may not make is home and 2 years later she is still driving it. Guess the car ended up being more reliable than me...:rolleyes: :D

Denis
 
Eventually I would love to put a T56 in my SC. I know it would require alot of custom work and engineering. If someone did make a conversion kit for this application, I would be all over it.

The T-5 in my Turbo Coupe shifts MUCH more smoothly than my M5R2. However, the TC is very much lacking TORQUE, so its a little easier on trannys.
 
Jason Wild said:
I have the same spec stage 2 as well and I'm going to say the same as ED did stay away from the spec unless you want drag race a lot.:D Other wise there vary grabby and not to nice to drive on the street a lot.

i have a spec1 in my 94 GT and its not all that grabby. Definetely has alot better street manors then the spec 3 i had in my TKO in my 87GT ;)

I had nothing but bad luck with CFDF clutches, so i wont recomend getting one :mad:
 
iwannanSC said:
The T-5 in my Turbo Coupe shifts MUCH more smoothly than my M5R2. However, the TC is very much lacking TORQUE, so its a little easier on trannys.


the SVO T5's (also found in the TC's) are actually quite strong. Ive had one in my 88 GT (3.50 1st T5..came out of a 84 or 85 SVO) making somewhere in the low 300RWHP area on motor and it has taken beating after beating and keeps on ticking. After about 15 passes with a 125 shot it STILL survives! And this is all after being in a fox Saleen that had a 396 and went 10.70's :eek:

i laugh at fords rating of that tranny not being able to support more then 300TQ
 
Blown 91 Bird said:
i have a spec1 in my 94 GT and its not all that grabby. Definetely has alot better street manors then the spec 3 i had in my TKO in my 87GT ;)

I had nothing but bad luck with CFDF clutches, so i wont recomend getting one :mad:

Your 'Stangs also don't have a hydraulic clutch. IMO, once you start dealing with a hydraulic clutch setup, the feel and performance qualities of a brand name, as compared to in a cable actuated setup are totally different. I had driven many 'Stangs and other stick cars with cable actuated clutches before I bought my '90 SC 5-spd, and I couldn't believe how much more difficult it was to get the feel for the SC clutch.

My engine will be coming out soon, and I'll inspect the CF DF clutch at that time, to see if it's showing any unusual signs of wear or damage. Until I see a reason to doubt the CF product, I'll continue to recommend it. ...But that's just my opinion.

Regards,

Sean
 
The SVO and TC T-5s have a different input shaft than the ones for V8 'stangs, so I'm assuming you changed yours over to V8 specs. Yes the T-5s are much stronger than the M5R2s (at least the ones I have). No matter what you do this M5R2 still feels like I'm shifting an F150.
 
iwannanSC said:
The SVO and TC T-5s have a different input shaft than the ones for V8 'stangs, so I'm assuming you changed yours over to V8 specs.

of course. Wouldnt work behind the motor if not :p


as far as the hydraulic clutch setup... i supose you are right. Ive never driven a 5spd SC so i dont know how they are. Only hydraulic clutch car ive driven is my moms old Celica. I thought about doing a 5spd swap in my car, but i despise hydraulic clutches and not being able to adjust throw so i scrapped that idea unless it can be done with a cable setup.
 
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