PDA

View Full Version : Gonna invest some cash one of these years!



dirtybird91
07-25-2002, 06:22 PM
I was wondering if it is possible to get our birds into the mid to low 12's without cheating with nitros? And if so, what will be required and how much cash would a man need to invest?
Just thinking about refinancing the house!

Digitalchaos
07-25-2002, 06:28 PM
I believe Coy Miller achieved his 11.6x second qm without the use of Nitrous. You can find more about qm times achieved by ppl w/ & w/o nos @ http://www.sccoa.com/faq/fastest.php . Others can tell you approx what it would cost to get that time, accounting for the various options that are possible.

dirtybird91
07-25-2002, 06:31 PM
Thanks dude!
I have heard of Coy's success, but I talked to him earlier last year and he told me that 11's had only been achieved with nitros. BUT, he also told me that there was a prototype supercharger in the works too. I guess the prototype worked out if the 11's have now been achieved!

curse
07-27-2002, 12:51 AM
why is n20 cheating?? And in all fairness isn't a blower cheating too??

cinstral
07-27-2002, 07:11 PM
true that, n20 is just another modification, not that i use it. i like to keep it so that any power you have at the track you have all the time, thats the only beef i have with n20. (nawwss!:rolleyes: )

dirtybird91
07-31-2002, 12:08 AM
In all fairness, I think nitros IS cheating. I look at my car just like I look at my body and i'll explain:

EXAMPLE-If I build my body with hard work, I will add muscle tissue naturally. If I use steriods "that is CHEATING", but I will get results quicker and more efficiently.

This is the same with building an engine. Nitros is not naturally found in the air that runs an engine. That's why it is cheating. It also has been known to break things! (Like Steroids!)

You likely disagree, but this is my personal opinion. I like the benifits of Nitros, but I choose to EARN my bragging rights!
My 2 cents.

curse
07-31-2002, 01:11 PM
N20 is just another bolt on isn't not cheating cuz anyone can do it just like a putting a cam or tb

phycobob
07-31-2002, 02:43 PM
Maybe its not cheating technically, but I do think its pretty cheap. Its not really your engine doing the work, its the n2o. A cam and other bolt-ons are permanant...not temporary boosts. If I attached JSTAR rocket engines to the side of my car I would go REALLY quick, but thats not a real comparison to car vs. car. I hope that clears up what the guys are trying to point out. Sure, nos is effective, but using it has the side effect of not only yourself knowing that your win wasnt exactly fair, but you also lose respect in the eyes of a lot of people, which to me, is just as important as winning.

dirtybird91
07-31-2002, 10:23 PM
I agree totally with what you are saying and all. I also think that you are "candy coating" the fact that this is simply cheating.
Let's quote what you just wrote:
"but using it has the side effect of not only yourself knowing that your win wasnt exactly fair, but you also lose respect in the eyes of a lot of people"
I agree! Nitros IS cheating. Don't get me wrong, I like to cheat too, but if I could have an engine that could do the job without resorting to cheating, that would be more respectable.

lowflying90
08-01-2002, 12:39 PM
Get real dude! If you think that nitrous is cheating you have no business doing any kinds of mods to your car, cause that is the same exact thing. In my book a mod is a mod whether it be exhaust, an air intake, or nitrous and NONE of these mods are CHEATING.

Jeff

phycobob
08-01-2002, 02:25 PM
Give me some valid points why nitros ISNT cheating, and then maybe I'll take you seriously. The fact that most NOS products are labeled as a "cheater kit" should tell you something. When I race, or hear about a guy's timeslip, I am always curious about what he/she has under the hood. On numorous occasions, I've heard people brag about what they've got, but convienently leave out the hidden fogger kit under the manifold. Come on now....give me a break! A friend of mine put a 150 shot in his mazda pickup truck, and when he kicks someones arse, people ask "whats IN that thing?" He tells them a big bottle of NOS, and the intrigue instantly changes to "oh...THATS how" and just like that, his "hella fast" truck turns into a regular, no balls, bottle baby. Personally, I hope all you out there who dont think nitros is cheating WILL use it, so that when you're engine explodes racing some insignificant honda next to you, you might think about why the hell you didnt just do it the right way. Just my 75 cents... :D

phycobob
08-01-2002, 02:27 PM
Give me some valid points why nitros ISNT cheating, and then maybe I'll take you seriously. The fact that most NOS products are labeled as a "cheater kit" should tell you something. When I race, or hear about a guy's timeslip, I am always curious about what he/she has under the hood. On numorous occasions, I've heard people brag about what they've got, but convienently leave out the hidden fogger kit under the manifold. Come on now....give me a break! A friend of mine put a 150 shot in his mazda pickup truck, and when he kicks someones arse, people ask "whats IN that thing?" He tells them a big bottle of NOS, and the intrigue instantly changes to "oh...THATS how" and just like that, his "hella fast" truck turns into a regular, no balls, bottle baby. Personally, I hope all you out there who dont think nitros is cheating WILL use it, so that when you're engine explodes racing some insignificant honda next to you, you might think about why the hell you didnt just do it the right way. Just my 75 cents... :D

8ate8
08-01-2002, 02:29 PM
it's only cheating if you lie about using it or not.. if you openly admit to using nitrous (nitrous.. stop saying nitros, please), then fine.. but if someone uses nitrous and then lies and says they didn't use it, THEN it's cheating.. but using nitrous and admitting it, is NOT cheating.

David Neibert
08-01-2002, 05:44 PM
To answer the original question, plan on spending about $25K for high to mid 12s without nitros. Considerably less if you do all the work yourself.

BTW, would you guys consider propane injection (alternative to alky/water injection) cheating ?

David

dirtybird91
08-01-2002, 06:51 PM
When a pro-weight lifter, boxer, baseball player or Olympic athelete uses steroids to gain an unfair advantage, is this cheating. Or if you get your ~~~ kicked in a boxing match because your oponent openly tells you that he is using steroids BEFORE he kicks your ~~~, is that cheating???? CHEATING IS CHEATING!!! That's real dudes!

white91sc
08-01-2002, 07:36 PM
Whether or not nitrous is cheating is one of those issues where valid points can be made for either side. 95% of the time, a group can argue, and in the end the two sides will walk away with the same views.

Can an SC go 12's without nitrous oxide and be streetable, yes. Is it going to cost you big money, at this point likely, but I suspect it will become less and less expensive the more we learn.

There are a number of approaches I see. One approach is to use boost. You have to build an engine to handle boost for a 12 second run. You would also have to increase the efficiency of the blower. Another way is to increase compression, volume (boring and/or stroking) so that the engine produces more power without substantial boost. Beyond the engine, traction, suspension tweaks, weight, transmission setup, altitude, and many other factors come into play. All of the bolt ons with no nitrous will bring you very close to 12's with good traction, good track prep, a good driver, close to sealevel altitude, a very good transmission, and a little luck. I'd even say it will happen.


Adam Mullen
The SC Kid

dirtybird91
08-01-2002, 07:43 PM
My original question was whether or not 11's were possible without Nitros. ( "cheater kit" )....
12's have already been achieved by Coy Miller and some others without nitros!

Tazer999
08-01-2002, 08:33 PM
I'm just wondering.

WHAT THE HELL IS NITROS

Deep6
08-01-2002, 08:34 PM
Ahem, the answer is "outlaw". K'.

In organized sports the rules are the rules. The rules say that no athlete is supposed to use steriods to acheive results. I can respect that.

However, in racing, if the class that you are racing in prohibits N20 (like steriods are prohibited in pro-athletics) then using N20 is cheating.

But if you are racing in an "outlaw" class, then anything goes baby. ANy and every mod to make you faster is going to count. Cause you better beleive that your opponent is going to be doing the same thing.

"but but but if that's the case, then that means I can mount 50mm machine guns on the hood of my car and SHOOT my opponent to win"

Remember, I said any mod to make you faster. Including the aforementioned JATO rocket packs! >:)

Personally, I won't be using a bottle. Not becuase I think it's cheating, but because I don't like having to fill the bottle up. I want to have full power all the time. That's why we got our cars.

Since there are no rules in the SCCOA prohibiting N20 from being used, then any SC that is using it to go faster is OK in my book.

XxSlowpokexX
08-01-2002, 08:34 PM
Well Coys in the 11's now.....Lets shoot for tens:O)

dirtybird91
08-01-2002, 09:25 PM
Does Coy use Nitrous??

cinstral
08-02-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by dirtybird91
When a pro-weight lifter, boxer, baseball player or Olympic athelete uses steroids to gain an unfair advantage, is this cheating. Or if you get your ~~~ kicked in a boxing match because your oponent openly tells you that he is using steroids BEFORE he kicks your ~~~, is that cheating???? CHEATING IS CHEATING!!! That's real dudes!

as some one already said, steroids are against that sports rules. but even if it wasn't he wouldn't be getting an unfair advantage, because you had the opportunity to use them as well. just like in racing. you and every other guy has the option and if you lose and/or post slower times because you don't want to use nitrous, the that's your choice. no nitrous is not naturally found in the air the engine breathes, but then the atmosphere doesn't naturally shove air into an engine at 14 psi. (on the boost gauge)

(edited because, after re-reading, i realized my original statement of air not naturally being pressurized at 14 lbs is retarded because it is in fact 14.7 psi, i meant 14 psi on the boot gauge) doh! <img border="0" src="http://www.plauder-smilies.de/kopfpatsch.gif" width="25" height="29">

dirtybird91
08-02-2002, 06:44 PM
If you would rather build an engine that has to depend on a "cheater bottle" than to really do good hard work it's your choice. I want to build an engine that can run like hell without the aid of Nitrous. I personally think it's cheap and lazy to use the stuff, as opposed to building an engine the right way! If I could not afford to do it right, then Nitrous would work fine!

Just my opinion and not meant to offend!
dirtybird91

curse
08-02-2002, 07:22 PM
whatever gets you moving

XxSlowpokexX
08-02-2002, 10:30 PM
Whats wrong with steroids...(flexin muscles)...Seriouslythough..If you look at NOS as cheating.....Best look at your own combination...Leave your Supercharger alone..Stock pulley...Stock inlet..Stock top..stock intercooler...Do all teh headwork and cam work and motor work you want..See just how fast you get your little 6 to go...Because changing any of those things would be cheating..because your now upgrading your power adder...Its all ridiculous ya see...Do what yaant to go fast..because in the end....The 1/4 number is all that matters...

dirtybird91
08-02-2002, 10:35 PM
I still think it's sort of ridiculous at how some of these guys truly work hard to build an engine the right way, and then someone comes along with a bull-$hi! short-cut and claims a better quarter-time.
I would use the Nitrous too if I was trying to go fast, but that sort of rules out true bragging rights. Going fast on Nitrous is nothing to be proud of. Hey, I could do that in a freaken chevette.
2cents

XxSlowpokexX
08-02-2002, 10:45 PM
Kinda liek a guy with a Grand national with a boost nob...Of a guy with an SC with a small pulley..Is it really cheating..Hell we all brag but who finishes first..finishes first..Me I just want a halway fast SC without a front mount or any other power adders but my Super charger.Hopefully by end of summer ill be dipping into the 12's.....after teh ported blower and crap...Headwork and a cam....Ya more expensive then NOS..But then again..I wouldnt be filling a bottle ..To each his own...Buy a stang if you want good 1/4 mile times I always say:O)~

dirtybird91
08-02-2002, 10:51 PM
All I am saying is that if someone is going to brag, then use another means besides Nitrous. It's nothing to brag about.
dirtybird91

Tazer999
08-02-2002, 11:04 PM
Thats like saying to someone who supercharges a car that it is cheap power

Your arguement is weak and crappy. Sorry dude, but more power to whoever is faster, doesn't matter how in my opinion

dirtybird91
08-02-2002, 11:10 PM
Hey that was a cheap shot....lol!!! Get it "Cheap shot of Nitruos!"
Hey, but seriously, that is pretty funny man because I have never heard of a cheap supercharger. Did you buy yours from a yard sale or something???? Be serious Tazer999.

curse
08-02-2002, 11:23 PM
like Damon Slowpoke Baumann said the timeslip does the talking i dont understand why wouldnt you want to do things the easy way

dirtybird91
08-02-2002, 11:33 PM
There is no substitute for hard work. I am not knocking nitrous, but I am only stating that if I was going to go fast on nitrous I would not be bragging.
If I worked my a$$ off to make a truly high-performing engine without nitrous then I would brag.
Nitrous is fine, for some people, but I just don't like cheap shortcuts unless I have to use them.
I would use it on my engine AFTER it was truly built right and it would also be capable of kicking A$$ without the bottle. Nitrous is cool, but hard work is more respectable that's all i'm saying.

Tazer999
08-02-2002, 11:39 PM
Ok whatever. It doesn't matter, because at the end of the day your still slower, :D

dirtybird91
08-03-2002, 12:13 AM
You win Tazer! Unless you blow your ~~~~~ up, being that you likely have a stock engine. You win man!

dirtybird91
08-03-2002, 12:40 AM
Hey Tazer999 where are you man??? Wake up and debate me, or did you run out of Nitrous..... LOL! Is your bottle empty???? :D :p :D :p :confused:
Well, I guess i'll point my tits north and step on the gas since your bottle is empty now....

Tazer999
08-03-2002, 06:01 PM
Goto my webpage, the mods are listed there. As for nitrous, it may or may not be on its way, it depends

Your probably just mad because some honda civic with a shot of nitrous blew your doors off because your hard work of changing the oil yourself didn't make u faster, :p

dirtybird91
08-03-2002, 06:18 PM
I have not become the victim of a riceburner yet! Let me get that webpage so that I can check your ride out man.
By the way, nitrous is cool, but I would rather build my motor up first before I use it. Some of these "weekend warriors" just take a lot of short cuts, and talk lots of ~~~~~ before they acutually work hard to earn their props. I am sure that you are legit man.
dirtybird91:D

curse
08-03-2002, 11:53 PM
making a reliable nitrous engine isn't as easy work as you think especially with DIS car i have the advantage of my dad working at MSD igniton and helping me out

dirtybird91
08-03-2002, 11:55 PM
I understand exactly what you mean, I am referring to those that just slap on nitros without doing anything else.:mad:

curse
08-03-2002, 11:57 PM
but it sure is funny when you see them try fast and furious stuff and blow there engine

dirtybird91
08-04-2002, 12:02 AM
I second that man!:D :D :D

Tazer999
08-04-2002, 12:14 AM
webpage is
members.tccoa.com/ryanb

As for just slapping on nitrous? Someone in the sccowc just did that with a 60hp shot and he ran a 13.6, :D

dirtybird91
08-04-2002, 12:16 AM
He will pay sooner or later..... I'll check out that page dude!;)