Car seems to fight itself to stay on track, poor traction even with Blizzaks?

brandonhgt

Registered User
I put my blizzaks on last weekend and thought I would be set for the winter. Well today while driving down the highway I hit an icy patch and I could feel the car sliding side to side like it wanted to spin out from under me. :eek: Normally I would attribute this to black ice or nasty conditions but I was going MUCH slower when I hit the ice than the cars on the road with me were, they did not slow down or hit the brakes at all (except those behind me who I probably scared the crap out of as my car was wobbling down the road). Then when I got home as a test I tried to go through 6 inches of snow in the driveway and could not make it (made it through 10+ easily last year). I have also noticed my wheels spinning off the line on snow which they never did last winter. Basically my traction with snow tires is almost as crappy as it is without them on. It almost feels like the car is fighting itself to not go down the road in a straight line.

I only have 5000 miles on the tires, they came with new steel wheels so they arent messed up. Just recently got an alignment, brakes are freshly done. Only problem with car is a loose end link? in the front, and I doubt that would make a difference. I did mess up the rotation system I had for the tires so I may have a front/back combo but that doesnt really seem like it could be it either.

Any suggestions as to what would all of a sudden make my car slide like that and struggle for traction on its snow tires after driving all last winter in icier/snowier conditions and NEVER having any problems like this whatsoever?

Thanks
 
1. alignment - which you had checked
2. tire pressure
3. those tires are directional, make sure the arrows point forward (I have seen it happen)
4. are you through the 45% special compound rubber on the tires. This would explain no traction on ice, but not snow. (there are 2 wear bars, highest one tells you that you have used up the special compound, the second tells you the tire is wore out)


I put 50-100 pounds of salt or sand in my trunk every winter, it really helps.
 
And while its being aligned go around each of your wheels and try to shake them up and down, and side to side, and if there is any slack replace the bushings or ball joints that are out. if the fronts shake side to side, its probably inner tie rod or outer tie rod. These out will cause the car the jolt around when it hits bumps.
 
Ummm the tires will not help you on ice..You have no idea how many SUV owners I see crash every winter because they feel they can do as they please. Just be careful. A bad alignment will make driving feel bad under all bad weather conditions. Ice is ice and there is nothing you can do about it
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Ummm the tires will not help you on ice..You have no idea how many SUV owners I see crash every winter because they feel they can do as they please. Just be careful. A bad alignment will make driving feel bad under all bad weather conditions. Ice is ice and there is nothing you can do about it


Not true.Fresh Blizzaks will help a lot on icy roads.
 
Blizzaks are awesome on ice. They give enough traction on ice that it almost feels like you have studded tires. Untill you wear through the special compound as mentioned earlier... then they are about the same as any other winter tire.


Tracy
 
I dont see how any compound of tire will stick to ice. Studded tires well...But ice is ice. They are the same tires I have for snows here. Granted thread pattern is better then that of a high performance tire made for dry pavement.
 
Don't know what to tell ya Damon. All I DO know is that my brother has them on his Dodge Intrepid and they are the best tire I have ever seen for snow and ice. I have driven his car with and without the Blizzaks last winter when he first put them on. I had driven the car and ridden in it many times with other winter tires and then drove it after the Blizzaks were put on and there was DEFINATELY a noticable difference. OK... maybe saying they make it feel like you have studded tires is a bit of an exageration, but they do, SOMEHOW, seem to find traction on ice and hard packed snow. My brother is a supervisor in a tire distribution warehouse and has tried about every kind of tire there is for snow/ice and the blizzaks win hands down.

Tracy
 
XR7 Dave said:
Fix the alignment.

That's my first thought, too. I know you took the car in but there are way too many lazy techs out there who follow the old "Set the toe, and let it go" mantra. Then there's the fact that the guy many shops choose to do the alignments are not the most experienced. Seems that since alignments are loss-leader items intended to get people to bring vehicles so that parts and labor can be upsold, they don't want to pay a high labor cost to get it done. So instead of paying the experienced $25/labor hr. tech they'll have the semi-experienced $14/labor hr. tech do it. About the only tech lower on the totem pole is the oil change guy.

I don't know how to get around it other than to know someone who does alignments personally, and have them do it.

Another thing to check would be for dragging front brakes. Get the front wheels up and rotate the tires by hand. Should turn fairly easily. If you have to get tools out to make 'em turn, then you might wanna go for a bit more in-depth inspection :)
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I am gonna take it to a new shop I found for an alignment next week and see if that solves the problem. I will also add that the blizzaks last year on snow and ice were awesome! I plan on getting a pair for our Jeep as soon as we can afford them, the tires themselves are great, I really think the focus itself is the problem here.
 
Here's a neat trick for getting a better alignment: specify your alignment specs!

When you take it in for an alignment, the mechanics simply do the minimum to get it "within spec" according to the book, which is:

Camber= 0 degrees ~ +/- 0.75 degrees
Caster= +5.50 degrees ~ +/- 0.75 degrees
Toe-in "= +0.075" ~ +/- 0.126"
Toe-in degrees= +0.15 degrees ~ +/-0.25 degrees

As you can see there is a "range" of acceptable settings. For some reason if you specify exact settings they try harder to meet the exact numbers you gave them.

SC'sons Greetings all...
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
I dont see how any compound of tire will stick to ice. Studded tires well...But ice is ice. They are the same tires I have for snows here. Granted thread pattern is better then that of a high performance tire made for dry pavement.


It's physics. A lot has been learned about ice and attaining traction.

Blizzaks and their ilk, use a special tread compound that his micro bubbles in it that as they wear create areas that suck water up. These clear the water out from under the tire that is generated as the tire moves over the ice. Then these tires are also sipped, which creates hundreds of edges in contact with the ice at any one time. It's edge that gains traction on ice.

There used to be (5 years ago) a paper that I could find on the internet that explained it all. Now all that seems to be left is marketing crud.

Perhaps what the original poster is not understanding is that while Blizzaks will improve traction on ice, improving near zero to just more than zero still isn't a whole heck of a lot. It's meaningful in dealing with stopping distances, but when you consider the HP necessary to maintain a speed that's being put to the ground, it's very possible for you to loose traction on ice. Why his car is different than others on the road? he's got a limited slip rear, so if one wheel wants to spin, both wheels are more likely to spin than on any other type of car.
 
Mike8675309 said:
Perhaps what the original poster is not understanding is that while Blizzaks will improve traction on ice, improving near zero to just more than zero still isn't a whole heck of a lot. It's meaningful in dealing with stopping distances, but when you consider the HP necessary to maintain a speed that's being put to the ground, it's very possible for you to loose traction on ice. Why his car is different than others on the road? he's got a limited slip rear, so if one wheel wants to spin, both wheels are more likely to spin than on any other type of car.

I forgot to mention that my SC is away for the winter and I drive the Focus in the snow so no limited slip for me. I understand that winter tires wont allow you to go crazy on snowy/icy roads but going by my experience with the same tires last year the performance was not comparable in certain situations and swayed in situations and on roads that it did not do last winter. (And we had a wide assortment of nasty stuff last year as well).

I am taking it in for a new alignment this week at a different shop, that sounds like the most likely cause of the problem.

i appreciate everyones suggestions, Thanks!
 
brandonhgt said:
I forgot to mention that my SC is away for the winter and I drive the Focus in the snow so no limited slip for me.
...

That might have been useful since by default, unless otherwise stated, the assumption is you're talking about a thunderbird or cougar with a SC motor.;)

With that said, have the alignment check and have them check all suspension bolts to make sure their tight. The car should be more sure footed on the road and something like that makes me wonder if there isn't a suspension problem OR you left the emergency brake on.
 
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