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tim
02-22-2006, 02:53 AM
My next mod will be either a Snow system or a Zex nitrous setup. I really dont know which way to go? The car sees a lot of the dragstrip. Any advice would really be a help. Tim:D

83GT460
02-22-2006, 01:17 PM
My next mod will be either a Snow system or a Zex nitrous setup. I really dont know which way to go? The car sees a lot of the dragstrip. Any advice would really be a help. Tim:D

I will give you my opinion having used both nitrous and the Snow kit although on different cars. I have been using the Snow kit on my SC which is my daily driver for the last six or seven months (approx 10,000 miles and somewhere around 100 gals of water/alcohol mix) and therefore most likely have as much or more experience as most here on the board. First of all I would not consider these two mods to be comparable unless you are planning to use a very small shot of nitrous however I will list what I consider to be pros and cons for each.

Snow Kit
Pro
1. Adds decent power if additional tuning is done
2. Realitively economical to use (around $2 a gal for methanol)
3. It is always there and always works (no switches and or buttons to push)
4. Smoother power gain, so it may be more usable

Con
1. Very little to No additional power without tuning
2. Frequent refills (I am using large nozzel and have it set to go max at fairly low MAF voltage)
3. Leaking fittings (I finally have them all fixed, for now)
4. You really should have a switch chip so if you have pump problems or run out of alcohol you can go to a less agressive tune (or you could just drive with a lighter foot)

Nitrous
Pro
1. Much greater overall power gains possible (As much as your engine can take)

Con
1. Much greater chance of engine damage if you have issues or improper tune
2. More expensive to use ($3.5-$4 per pound)
3. More difficult to use the sudden hit of power from the nitrous

I could list more but that should give you a basic idea of what to expect. Hopefully both David D and Kurt K will chime in because I know they also are using the snow kit and David N is using both so he may share his thoughts as well.

Charles

CMac89
02-22-2006, 01:43 PM
They are actually two different things. The snow kit is just a substitute for race gas to run more timing and cool air charge down. Nitrous is an actual power adder that adds a substantial amount of oxygen, in which, needs more fuel. Therefore, you can run a Snow system as a form of higher octane fuel to prevent detonation.

xThunderbirdSCx
02-22-2006, 03:56 PM
Search up first :p

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67958

83GT460
02-22-2006, 04:26 PM
Search up first :p

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67958

Everybody love a wise guy! Especially when he provides a link without any real information.

Charles

David Neibert
02-22-2006, 06:14 PM
Tim,

I agree with what Charles has already said.

Given that your car is being built mainly for the track, I think you will get much more bang for the buck going with the nitrous system. Be sure to get a heater to keep bottle pressures consistant. If your not going to get a chip for running with nitrous, pull the octane plug to retard timing when using the nitrous.

David

SCaddict
02-22-2006, 07:39 PM
I was told by a Mustang guy yesterday that using the Snow kit will create some problems down the road with chewing away at welds and creating leaks. He has used the system on several boosted stangs' as that is what he builds and he does not like it. Has anyone here experienced any issue with corrosion?

CMac89
02-22-2006, 08:51 PM
I was told by a Mustang guy yesterday that using the Snow kit will create some problems down the road with chewing away at welds and creating leaks. He has used the system on several boosted stangs' as that is what he builds and he does not like it. Has anyone here experienced any issue with corrosion?
It depends what type of weld and piping you use. If you use aluminum it wont corrode. The more concentration of water you use then the more likely you are to corroding the piping.

83GT460
02-22-2006, 08:53 PM
I was told by a Mustang guy yesterday that using the Snow kit will create some problems down the road with chewing away at welds and creating leaks. He has used the system on several boosted stangs' as that is what he builds and he does not like it. Has anyone here experienced any issue with corrosion?

Most of us have the nozzel in the return tube from the Intercooler or return plenum which are both aluminum as well as the intake and there are no welds. I happen to have my intake off last week doing head gaskets and everything looked just fine.

Charles

tim
02-22-2006, 10:25 PM
Thanks guys. I am really leaning toward the zex nitrous kit. My engine is built really strong with forged pistons, 351 rods, ARP studs and a Coy miller crankshaft gurdle. I have a switch chip and the car will be tuned by Dave Dalke for the nitruos. Can I go 100hp. shot or bigger? Should I use a wet or dry kit? I have a 255 high volvme pump and 42 lbs. injectors. How big a system can I safley run. my hope is to some day put this car is the 11s.:D

83GT460
02-22-2006, 10:57 PM
Thanks guys. I am really leaning toward the zex nitrous kit. My engine is built really strong with forged pistons, 351 rods, ARP studs and a Coy miller crankshaft gurdle. I have a switch chip and the car will be tuned by Dave Dalke for the nitruos. Can I go 100hp. shot or bigger? Should I use a wet or dry kit? I have a 255 high volvme pump and 42 lbs. injectors. How big a system can I safley run. my hope is to some day put this car is the 11s.:D

My opinion is that if you are going to run a 100 HP shot or bigger you definately need to go wet. I don't think there is any way that 42's are going to supply enough fuel and I am pretty sure David D will tell you the same thing.

Charles

SCaddict
02-22-2006, 11:01 PM
My tubes are aluminized exhaust tubing. Do you think they will corrode?

CMac89
02-22-2006, 11:52 PM
My tubes are aluminized exhaust tubing. Do you think they will corrode?
Personally I highly doubt it. It takes more exposure to air to corrode than what is likely available. Don't worry about it.

SCaddict
02-22-2006, 11:54 PM
Should I get them powder coated?

CMac89
02-23-2006, 12:01 AM
Should I get them powder coated?
No that wouldn't work. The tubes wouldn't start to corrode externally. It would start corrosion internally, in which, is the reason for me saying that it would need more exposure to air than there is available.

David Neibert
02-23-2006, 12:40 AM
My opinion is that if you are going to run a 100 HP shot or bigger you definately need to go wet. I don't think there is any way that 42's are going to supply enough fuel and I am pretty sure David D will tell you the same thing.

Charles

Tim,

The Zex dry system is going to be a much easier and cleaner install, but I agree, if going with a 100 HP or more go wet. It will be much more tuneable and doesn't rely on the injectors to deliver the fuel. I'm using a universal v8 NOS wet system with a Nitrous Express heater and a bunch of other extras.

On an SC, a 100 HP shot usually makes a 100 or more at the wheels (not the crank), because of the added cooling to the intake air charge.

David

PS: Starting in 2006 NHRA requires metal nitrous bottle brackets and the use of a fire jacket.

XR7 Dave
02-23-2006, 10:49 AM
It always bothers me when people want to compare alcohol injection and nitrous. They are just two different things entirely as has been posted above.

For people who drive an expreme performance SC on the street and must therefore use pump gas, the alcohol injection is a godsend. Turbo Buick guys have been saying this for years because they have been running 20+psi on the street for years. We are starting to run high boost on the street too. It's becoming a real issue and a real benefit.

Yes, there are drawbacks, but there is no free lunch. If you think you will run 20+ psi on the street daily with your SC and not have any issues you have another thing coming. :D If people want that kind of performance they are going to have to accept what goes with it. Turbo Buick guys have lots of stories about melted pistons and blown headgaskets too. No one is immune.

There are couple of people who have issues with their alcohol injection systems. I had some leaks in mine as well. However, as I said above, if you want to run high boost on the street you will have to take some responsibility for performance and yes, some of it might be on a daily basis. That is nothing new for an SC owner.

Regarding component corrosion, I have not seen any corrosion in my tubes, but I haven't run the system that much either. I use mild steel tubes and I inject the alcohol in the tubes. Fortunately my PCV system puts out so much oil that the tubes are well rust protected and the alcohol has had not effect on it. Typically I do recommend installing the nozzle in an alulminum tube and I do not recommend installing the nozzle in front of the TB as many Mustang and GTP guys do. There are plenty of places to inject it in the return tube from the IC or return adapter at the manifold.



As for nitrous, if you have your car in a great state of tune and you have the ability to tune and maintain the car with the nitrous installed then I say go for it. If you think nitrous is a plug and play power adder then you have another thing coming. Nitrous will take any problem your engine might have and multiply it X10. Keep that in mind. IMO unless you have the financial resources to be able to rebuild your engine at any given point in time, you should give serious thought as to whether or not nitrous is for you.

Kevin has shown us all a very good example of how to run fast and do it well. Kevin has torn down his motor at the end of every season now for several years. He has looked inside the motor and observed bearing wear, etc. each year and evaluated how things are going based on what he has seen inside. For someone who has not the time, facility, ambition, or money to pull the motor apart every year to check things out I'm not sure that a big shot of nitrous is the best idea. Kevin will use nitrous this year, but it's only after several years of successful running that he is considering doing so.

I am mildly bothered at times that SC people are so anxious to get from a-z that they miss all the steps in between. I sound like a stuck record but I can't seem to say it enough. Get the car running and performing consistently before contemplating something like nitrous. How will you feel if you spent a whole year getting the car together only to blow it up on the first pass down the track? It can happen. :eek:

David Neibert
02-23-2006, 01:05 PM
How will you feel if you spent a whole year getting the car together only to blow it up on the first pass down the track? It can happen.


I know how that feels :o

David

Kurt K
02-23-2006, 02:13 PM
I know how that feels :o

DavidIt was the second pass.

SCrazy
02-23-2006, 02:22 PM
It was the second pass.

Hey, I got two nice pulls on the dyno before I trashed mine 1st pass.:cool:

tim
02-23-2006, 04:27 PM
I think I will get a camper. I guess I can wait and see how it runs. With all the new cars getting so much faster its going to take something to be a little quicker.:eek: I hate getting beat by stock cars.:D

David Neibert
02-23-2006, 04:49 PM
It was the second pass.

Yeah, but it took nearly 2 years to get it built, so I'm thinking that's just as bad.

David

Slysc
02-23-2006, 04:54 PM
For using the Snow system as a power adder, some folks are using a slight mixture of nitromethane. Nitromethane adds oxygen like nitrous so you can only add so much or you will end up dangerously lean but I've read reports of 50 additional hp from adding the nitromethane to the water/methanol mix.

Is anyone running both the snow system and nitrous on an SC? It would seem like they would complement eachother but may complicate tuning.

David Neibert
02-23-2006, 06:49 PM
Is anyone running both the snow system and nitrous on an SC? It would seem like they would complement eachother but may complicate tuning.

Yes..I am.

The nitrous tune is the same as for using the methanol, except 5 degrees less WOT timing.

David

tim
02-23-2006, 09:15 PM
Well maybe I will get the snow system ans a small shot of nitrous. 50hp. or so. I would really like to see what my car will do with this blower on it.:D

CMac89
02-23-2006, 11:57 PM
I've asked about the Nitromethane additive too. Has anybody tried it?

Like Dan said, NitroMethane adds oxygen to the fuel mixture, but twice as much as nitrous. NitroMethane is CH3NO2 so there is two oxygen molecules and Nitrous is N2O which is one oxygen molecule. Nitro is liquid and Nitrous is a gas. Nitro isn't considered a power adder either because it is an organic fuel.

Nitro's flash point is 85* too.:eek:

SCaddict
02-24-2006, 01:12 AM
Is it safe to run or is there dangers like nitrous?

Randy N Connie
02-24-2006, 10:21 AM
Well maybe I will get the snow system ans a small shot of nitrous. 50hp. or so. I would really like to see what my car will do with this blower on it.:D

Its going to be about 50 to 80 hp less than a ported blower
would do on your car.

Randy

xThunderbirdSCx
02-24-2006, 08:14 PM
My plan for when im not SC poor is to boost over 20% from an MP3 (or AR:D ) run methanol injection and some nitro methane (at 30 bucks a bottle :eek: )

tim
02-26-2006, 12:26 AM
Randy very true but I have a lot of things on mye this year.If I could come up with the money I would buy a mp2 or an Ar. No mp3 for me thanks!!:eek:

Randy N Connie
02-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Randy No mp3 for me thanks!!:eek:

OK tim I will not send my MPIII to you for your birthday.
After I swap out my MPIII for my Autorotor blower this week.
:p

But I will wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY,,,,, anyway. :)

Thanks Randy :)

PS., Tim
Since I know ya! :rolleyes I am going to let you in like a bandet,
on a deal. :)

I have blowers to lease for 2006 Shootout.48 hour lease programs.
MPIIs
MPIIIs
Autorotors


Just teasin :) Randy

CMac89
02-27-2006, 01:21 PM
I have blowers to lease for 2006 Shootout.48 hour lease programs.
MPIIs
MPIIIs
Autorotors

You have more than one of each?

tim
02-28-2006, 11:31 AM
Randy i cant really say anything either way on the mp3. If I did have the money I would buy a autorotor. It just makes more sense. i am going to go with a zex nitrous system. Set at 75 hp. I dont really see a problem.:D