Looking for New AOD advise

rickbtbird

Registered User
Hey Folks,
I'm looking to swap my AOD out this spring with something a bit beefier. I'm looking for something that shifts snappier, has the ability to hold a better second and third gear and has a proven record. The car has the original AOD (89,000 miles) is starting to slip when downshifting from OD to D. The thing is a total slush bucket and I don’t think it’s going to last another summer or two. Since I’ve got the money now so it’s time!
I'm also looking to replace my motor and tranny mounts. What’s the best?

Any success or horror stories would be greatly appreciated.
 
may try a c-4 if youre dead set against another AOD. some 77 78 t birds and crap like that have a small bolt c-6. hard to find, but useable. i have one right here in a LTD bolted to a 351 W. i would hate to lose my OD though so im gonna stick with the old AOD. i can run 4.10's or 4.56's and still live with the car.

this is off the patc website
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/aode.htm



AOD Transmission - Level 4

This is a high performance non-electronic 4R70W transmission. This is accomplished by placing all of the internal parts of an electronic 4R70W or AODE into a non-electronic AOD case. Now you can have an AODE or 4R70W transmission in your 1993 and older Mustang without all the expense of an after market computer and related wiring. This is an easy drop-in direct replacement. Simply remove your AOD transmission and install the A O Dominator. This is a highly modified transmission and torque converter. This package deal comes with a 2200 / 2500 converter stall speed (#16) (non-lock-up only), but can be ordered with any stall speed you need. Some of the features of the Dominator are, a two inch wide Raybestoe Pro Series Kevlar overdrive band, mechanical diode with Spiral "Plus" Ring Kit instead of the stock roller clutch that is prevalent to breakage and a high performance Superior Posi Shift Pac. This transmission has a 4R70W wide ratio gear set, 2.84 ratio first gear (15% lower than an AOD or AODE), 1.55 ratio second gear (5% lower than an AOD or AODE), non-lock-up torque converter, extra hard intermediate shaft (a must for high horse power motors), type "A+" overdrive billet servo for added holding power and 8 clutches in the direct clutch drum (Alto Red Eagle). This is 33% more than a stock 4R70W transmission, and the list goes on and on. This is a great transmission for towing and 4WD use.

Wait no longer, now you can have the baddest AOD / 4R70W on the planet for $2099.00. No trade-in needed on this one. This transmission is for motors having up to 750 horse power using pump gasoline, see chart below. Add torque converter upgrades if needed. The freight is $110.00 to $150.00 in most cases. Call 1-888-8771008 to place an order or ask questions.
Qty
2WD
Horse Power
Powder Coat Add $150.00
Stall Speed
Upgrade to 800 HP NLU Billet Converter
Home Delivery Extra $75.00
Free
Gear Set
Cast Aluminum Pan


RICKBTBIRD---- just for ~~~~~ and giggles, up your TV pressure just a little. make sure the bushing is in there for the tv cable
 
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I can tell you how to build one or build one for you,but i don't know of any company's I'd suggest except maybe lentech. Lentech makes the best vb's.
Alan
 
C5 isn't for me.

22lbsofboost said:
may try a c-4 if youre dead set against another AOD. some 77 78 t birds and crap like that have a small bolt c-6. hard to find, but useable. i have one right here in a LTD bolted to a 351 W. i would hate to lose my OD though so im gonna stick with the old AOD. i can run 4.10's or 4.56's and still live with the car.

I've been on their website and their prices have come down a bit since the last time I check. Has anybody used anything from http://racetransmissions.com/store/index.php/cPath/1_31_129_132
this is off the patc website
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/aode.htm



AOD Transmission - Level 4

This is a high performance non-electronic 4R70W transmission. This is accomplished by placing all of the internal parts of an electronic 4R70W or AODE into a non-electronic AOD case. Now you can have an AODE or 4R70W transmission in your 1993 and older Mustang without all the expense of an after market computer and related wiring. This is an easy drop-in direct replacement. Simply remove your AOD transmission and install the A O Dominator. This is a highly modified transmission and torque converter. This package deal comes with a 2200 / 2500 converter stall speed (#16) (non-lock-up only), but can be ordered with any stall speed you need. Some of the features of the Dominator are, a two inch wide Raybestoe Pro Series Kevlar overdrive band, mechanical diode with Spiral "Plus" Ring Kit instead of the stock roller clutch that is prevalent to breakage and a high performance Superior Posi Shift Pac. This transmission has a 4R70W wide ratio gear set, 2.84 ratio first gear (15% lower than an AOD or AODE), 1.55 ratio second gear (5% lower than an AOD or AODE), non-lock-up torque converter, extra hard intermediate shaft (a must for high horse power motors), type "A+" overdrive billet servo for added holding power and 8 clutches in the direct clutch drum (Alto Red Eagle). This is 33% more than a stock 4R70W transmission, and the list goes on and on. This is a great transmission for towing and 4WD use.

Wait no longer, now you can have the baddest AOD / 4R70W on the planet for $2099.00. No trade-in needed on this one. This transmission is for motors having up to 750 horse power using pump gasoline, see chart below. Add torque converter upgrades if needed. The freight is $110.00 to $150.00 in most cases. Call 1-888-8771008 to place an order or ask questions.
Qty
2WD
Horse Power
Powder Coat Add $150.00
Stall Speed
Upgrade to 800 HP NLU Billet Converter
Home Delivery Extra $75.00
Free
Gear Set
Cast Aluminum Pan

When i first got the car about a week into owning it, the bushing broke. I had it replaced but the downshifts from OD into D was never right again. I put in some slush (Lucas Transmission Fix) for the transmission and it's a little bit better. I don't know much about increasing the TV pressure.. How is that done?
RICKBTBIRD---- just for ~~~~~ and giggles, up your TV pressure just a little. make sure the bushing is in there for the tv cable
 
Dirtyd0g said:
I can tell you how to build one or build one for you,but i don't know of any company's I'd suggest except maybe lentech. Lentech makes the best vb's.
Alan

That's interesting. Do you own your own business?
 
rickbtbird said:
That's interesting. Do you own your own business?
Well, Alan built my AOD and I will be picking it up tomorrow. Fortunately, my now defunct Art Carr already had some of the required updated parts and I already had the Lentech VB :)

I won't have any real feedback for at least a year, but with talking to Alan and his reputation (moreso at TCCoA) I'm confident that I made a good choice.
 
Kurt K said:
Well, Alan built my AOD and I will be picking it up tomorrow. Fortunately, my now defunct Art Carr already had some of the required updated parts and I already had the Lentech VB :)

I won't have any real feedback for at least a year, but with talking to Alan and his reputation (moreso at TCCoA) I'm confident that I made a good choice.
Cool. I hope it works out for you and it rips up the road! So what the total job cost? I heard Alan did good work but Ohio is a distance from me. I'm in Connecticut.. my AOD has never been modified and I'm not gonna rip out my tranny in my driveway. I was hoping to have a new or rebuilt one installed at a shop along with the new tranny and motor mounts. Might even have new rear seal done while it's out.
 
To say I own my own business is a little much, maybe in the future. I am working on upgrading my garage maybe when I get it all done I will go into "business" for now I am doing more freelance work. Giving a price on one of these transmissions is very complicated until you have the unit torn down. newer transmissions are easier you can go buy low mileage cores to start with. Then there the options on these transmissions. They can range from a low of about $1000 to a high of about $3500. I can however ship them.
Alan
 
Dirtyd0g said:
To say I own my own business is a little much, maybe in the future. I am working on upgrading my garage maybe when I get it all done I will go into "business" for now I am doing more freelance work. Giving a price on one of these transmissions is very complicated until you have the unit torn down. newer transmissions are easier you can go buy low mileage cores to start with. Then there the options on these transmissions. They can range from a low of about $1000 to a high of about $3500. I can however ship them.
Alan
That's quite a bit (1-3.5g) of a price range. I'm assuming the later is for the track. I’m more into street mods. Currently my setup is more of a slightly modified stock motor. I'm looking for the biggest bang for my buck in terms of a tranny that will allow me to really grab some road as the shifts transitions from one gear to the next instead of the normal soft shifts in the stock model. I would also like to use the D and OD manually without putting any unwanted stress on the transmission. I don't race my car but I'd like the higher performance tranny when I need to dig down and get it. I would also expect it to last a few years and lots of miles. I've been looking at the ones from PACT. What would make getting one of your modified AODs better?

Also, do you have a brake down of you mods.
 
The AOD can be an awesome tranny, with the mods mentioned earlier. If you prefer, you can get your local tranny shop to get all the parts for the 2" OD band swap (From Ford) and have them build your tranny locally. Have them put in a good shift kit while they are at it.

Nice to be able to take it to the guy who built it if you have issues later on.
 
I modify transmission for the application so every application would vary. it also depends on the core being built from. I only use the dynax frictions and install 2 inch wide od bands. Anyone wanting anything less doesn't want me to do it for them. The use of alto clutches like so many companies use is stupid. That stuff is garbage. They use thin steels and thin frictions to get more surface, it doesn't last. If you want more plates you have to machine parts to get them in there. There are also the issues of the output shaft and input shaft. The transmission that would run $3500 would have the best of everything. Billet 9.5 inch 31 spline torque converter, 1 piece input shaft. Hardened output shaft, 2 inch wide high carbon band,4r70w gear set using 03 up gears for strength. 7 plate forward clutch, 8 plate direct, 4 plate intermediate, A servo, and a lentech vb with electronic od delete. I also like to install 3/8 cooler fittings so true 3/8 lines can be installed for increased flow. I modify them for rear lube modification and make sure every bushing in the unit is in perfect condition. I just built a unit exactly to these specs from an art carr unit that was close. There are alot of parts involved.
For a more street application you can build a 91up sc transmission with just the 2 inch high carbon band, 8 plate direct,6 plate forward and 4 plate intermediate for around $1200 not including a torque converter or valvebody/shift kit.
Alan
 
Dirtyd0g said:
I modify transmission for the application so every application would vary. it also depends on the core being built from. I only use the dynax frictions and install 2 inch wide od bands. Anyone wanting anything less doesn't want me to do it for them. The use of alto clutches like so many companies use is stupid. That stuff is garbage. They use thin steels and thin frictions to get more surface, it doesn't last. If you want more plates you have to machine parts to get them in there. There are also the issues of the output shaft and input shaft. The transmission that would run $3500 would have the best of everything. Billet 9.5 inch 31 spline torque converter, 1 piece input shaft. Hardened output shaft, 2 inch wide high carbon band,4r70w gear set using 03 up gears for strength. 7 plate forward clutch, 8 plate direct, 4 plate intermediate, A servo, and a lentech vb with electronic od delete. I also like to install 3/8 cooler fittings so true 3/8 lines can be installed for increased flow. I modify them for rear lube modification and make sure every bushing in the unit is in perfect condition. I just built a unit exactly to these specs from an art carr unit that was close. There are alot of parts involved.
For a more street application you can build a 91up sc transmission with just the 2 inch high carbon band, 8 plate direct,6 plate forward and 4 plate intermediate for around $1200 not including a torque converter or valvebody/shift kit.
Alan
Alan,
So lets say I was to find a core that could be built up for a street rod including the touque converter and valvebody/shiftkit. Could you do it for around 2g?
 
lrsudog said:
The AOD can be an awesome tranny, with the mods mentioned earlier. If you prefer, you can get your local tranny shop to get all the parts for the 2" OD band swap (From Ford) and have them build your tranny locally. Have them put in a good shift kit while they are at it.

Nice to be able to take it to the guy who built it if you have issues later on.
That appears to be a fair assessment because I wouldn't want to have to drive the car 500 miles if there was an issue with a tranny upgrade:eek:. That now just sounds like a real dumb idea. I don't know much about the interworkings of the AOD tranny and lack any knowledge of what mods are best for a street rod. Furthermore I have no clue who does good or bad work here in Connecticut. That's why I was toying with the idea of a intenet transmission but that starting to sound like a bad idea as well. I guess I'll be doing some homework before I do any further mods on the drivetrain.
 
do some research on the tranny shops in your area. go to each one and talk to the owner face to face. this will tell you a lot about the people you are dealing with. do all the techs in the back look like rock heads? dont take your tranny there. try to find a clean shop thats not all backed up with crap laying all around. this means he may be careless with your trans as well. im SURE that you will find a transmission parts supply house in your area. call the supply house and ask the guy straight up, who he would have build his transmission. he sells to all this local shops so he will show little if any favor for one particular shop. also you can ask this same guy prices on all the parts to rebuild your AOD, in a package deal, so you will know if your transmission builder is trying to make too much money off of your parts. ask your builder if you can bring in your own rebuild parts for him to install. ive done this several times with good success. DO NOT be scared of a small shop. these can be good builders too. its not about a huge name, or a huge shop. its about the guy who is gonna have his hands inside your AOD.
 
Dirtyd0g said:
I modify transmission for the application so every application would vary. it also depends on the core being built from. I only use the dynax frictions and install 2 inch wide od bands. Anyone wanting anything less doesn't want me to do it for them. The use of alto clutches like so many companies use is stupid. That stuff is garbage. They use thin steels and thin frictions to get more surface, it doesn't last. If you want more plates you have to machine parts to get them in there. There are also the issues of the output shaft and input shaft. The transmission that would run $3500 would have the best of everything. Billet 9.5 inch 31 spline torque converter, 1 piece input shaft. Hardened output shaft, 2 inch wide high carbon band,4r70w gear set using 03 up gears for strength. 7 plate forward clutch, 8 plate direct, 4 plate intermediate, A servo, and a lentech vb with electronic od delete. I also like to install 3/8 cooler fittings so true 3/8 lines can be installed for increased flow. I modify them for rear lube modification and make sure every bushing in the unit is in perfect condition. I just built a unit exactly to these specs from an art carr unit that was close. There are alot of parts involved.
For a more street application you can build a 91up sc transmission with just the 2 inch high carbon band, 8 plate direct,6 plate forward and 4 plate intermediate for around $1200 not including a torque converter or valvebody/shift kit.
Alan

you dont have to use alto frictions with alto steels. i use colean (sp?) steels and alto frictions and had them in and out of 4 trannies that had other "issues" so i cant badmouth alto at all. if these guys can warranty a 1000 horsepower capable E4OD for a diesel with alto red eagle clutches, they cant be total crap like you are trying to say.
 
rickbtbird said:
Alan,
So lets say I was to find a core that could be built up for a street rod including the touque converter and valvebody/shiftkit. Could you do it for around 2g?

Yes I am sure I could. It would be easier and cheaper to get a 91-93 core. Keep that in mind.
Alan
 
22lbsofboost said:
you dont have to use alto frictions with alto steels. i use colean (sp?) steels and alto frictions and had them in and out of 4 trannies that had other "issues" so i cant badmouth alto at all. if these guys can warranty a 1000 horsepower capable E4OD for a diesel with alto red eagle clutches, they cant be total crap like you are trying to say.

It just so happens I am very good friends with the owner of factory tech transmissions. They stopped using alto clutches for a reason maybe you should look into it a little better. Alto clutches are relined with cheap red paper. They are total crap. Would you alike a picture of one with 3000 miles on it that is half peeled I can help you there. The "kolene" steels you are talking about I am very familiar with. They aren't too bad I just don't like that they are so thin. The best frictions you can buy are dynax 850 lining. That is the black (high carbon,graphite) material. Do some reading on it and you will see what I am talking about.
Alan
 
Dirtyd0g said:
It just so happens I am very good friends with the owner of factory tech transmissions. They stopped using alto clutches for a reason maybe you should look into it a little better. Alto clutches are relined with cheap red paper. They are total crap. Would you alike a picture of one with 3000 miles on it that is half peeled I can help you there. The "kolene" steels you are talking about I am very familiar with. They aren't too bad I just don't like that they are so thin. The best frictions you can buy are dynax 850 lining. That is the black (high carbon,graphite) material. Do some reading on it and you will see what I am talking about.
Alan

well i guess it depends upon who you ask. every tranny builder in this town has a different opinion. many trans shops from here to jacksonville fla buy parts from a large trans parts supplier here in valdosta. they buy both of these brands along with others. here is some info straight off the alto site


Clutches fail in Hi-Performance applications due to excessive heat. Our specially designed original Red Eagle® clutches withstand higher temperatures than any other clutch available. Friction paper is saturated in a phenolic resin and cured.
Red Eagle® clutches are not only saturated in a phenolic resin but have a second saturation in a silicate. The silicate imparts high heat resistance to the friction paper.Red Eagle® clutches are designed with a softer, more resilient base paper.
Red Eagle® clutches assure less wear against opposing steel plates.
Red Eagle® clutches reduce the incidence of steel plates burning and warping.

The "slipping" of the friction plate against the steel plate causes a great amount of heat to be generated. Our original Red Eagle® material is designed to limit the amount of "slip" by providing a shorter lock-up time, generating less heat.

Original Red Eagle® clutches are designed to dissipate oil without the necessity of an oil groove. The original Red Eagle® clutches increased surface area provides:
Increased surface area for increased holding
Increased surface area for increased heat absorption
Increased surface area for shorter lock-up time - decreasing "slippage"

here is info on the kolene steels

® is a salt bath nitriding process. In generic terms, it is a thermochemical diffusion process, whereby ferrous parts are processed in molten salt with a specific nitrogen potential. In plain English, it provides a surface treatment that enhances wear and fatigue resistance from 200% to 500%.
Kolene Steel Plates
Kolene® plates are higher heat resistant and offer increased lubricity.

Kolene® is a registered trademark of Kolene Corporation.


higallery70.jpg


they work pretty good for this guy

i also yahoo'd dynax america, which is a small subsidiary of dynax japan with 240 employees in roanoke va. that being their only office in the US. they dont post any website or any other way to get clear info on their clutch material. i will keep searching though.

martins transmissions, right here in valdosta 229 244 0675. i urge anyone to give greg or craig a call. they build 1000's of transmissions yearly and are cool guys who are willing to help anyone out. good advice. greg built every AOD i ever had the pleasure of destroying. out of 7 trannies. i tried raybestos clutches on my first, they lasted 2 oil changes. never had trouble with the alto's or the kolene's. never had the money for fancy shafts, so i mostly broke those....and exploded a drum....and fried a couple cheap 10" converters...and cracked a case...none of which were ever gregs fault.

id like to also profess that i am not a tranny builder. i only know what i do from my limited personal experience and hanging out at martins, which is right down the road from the house

also athe trans parts house here in valdosta is daytona trans warehouse -229 242 9338 gary is the owner

EDIT found a little info on dynax america
EXEDY (SHANGHAI)
FRICTION MATERIAL CO.LTD.
Block M6, Shanghai Comprehensive Industrial Zone, Shanghai, China 201400
TEL:86-21-5743-4136 FAX:86-21-5743-4257


i did find out after a a little research that dynax also makes OEM frictions for the allison chevy auto's only as far as gm goes, and ford buys a lot of OEM clutches from dynax america. must be good stuff


im not sure who factory tech is. i couldnt find them on the ATRA members list nor could i find them on the transmission part directoryhttp://www.transonline.com/TOBuyersGuide/LocationInfo.cfm?LocationID=3160, so i couldnt agree or disagree with what they say or dont say:)

HEY just found factory tech. they dont have any power ratings other than "well as long as you dont hook it up to a jet engine, its pretty indestructable" they sell what looks to be the smae converters, billet plate, rollerized, triple clutch converters for about 400 more than PATC. not saying they arent better, but they have no real specs on the site
if you do know greg, tell him to post up some specs man!

here are some links for those who may be curious

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/aod.htm

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/aode.htm

http://www.factorytechtransmissions.com/

http://www.transonline.com/TOBuyersGuide/CompaniesByCategory.cfm?CategoryListID=5&Category=Clutches

http://www.altousa.com/

http://www.atra-gears.com/
 
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Gregg isn't going to come here and post specs. The research done on the dynax frictions were done at the ford plant. If ford thought alto frictions were better they would use them. Raybestos makes a good forward friction but all the others should be the dynax material if you want it to last.
Alan
 
i was actually talking about his website. i dont need his specs, but his potential customers do im sure.
the specs that need posting are for his converters.
as far as transmission specs go, unless he does a lot of special machining or manufactures his own parts, all he does is put parts together. no specs here to share. just a list of whats installed in the case, right?
 
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