some deep thinking.

oldschoolmuscle

Registered User
why are sc owners afraid of other forms of boost. if it isn't a eaton m90 or a postive displacement blower, seems like half you guys want nothing to do with it.

There needs to be a myth busters show about SC, proving that more cfm and less heat = more hp, and with more hp= faster cars........

or am i just totally wrong

P.s. this is my first and prob last serious post ever. so take it seriously.

second cmac loves procharged muffstains. and 1fastsc needs a ls1.
 
No, CMac hearts NA because of actual instant power. Only thing close to the performance of a Hi-Po NA motor is a positive displacement application. It really depends what type of racing you like to do. I like drag racing so positive displacement blowers or NA applications are the best to do that in.

I don't care racing from a roll to 140mph and i'm not into road racing/autocross. Why do you think that the majority of the drag racers use positive displacement blowers?

Sure you can get a turbo or centrifugal blower setup on an SC to run the same or faster than the M90's that are already used, but it's gonna take alot more than 380rwhp to run low 11's. This is the beauty of a positive displacement blower. Plus we are trying to haul 4000lb. cars down the strip.

Power at low rpm's, mid range, and top end is alot more beneficial then just top end.
 
the-big-e said:
What is procharged muffstains, anyway?????:confused:
He means Muffstangs.

A couple of friends and I call Mustangs that, but oldschoolmuscle misinterpret's everything we try to send a catch out on.
 
I really dont think that everyone here has a problem with different types of boost from different applications. If you notice there have been quite a few threads in recently months about different blowers, s-port, mp2, mp3, autorotor, centrifugal, even a few posts about turbos. Everybody has different opions about what they think is the best for their application. Some are even going in a completely different direction i.e. turbos. I have seen nothing but a open discussion about the pros and cons of each application. and each is some ones opinion. Why do some shy away from anything that isn't a m-90?? Call them purests if you like. An m-90 came on the car and is one of the defining attributes of an Sc. Is it still an SC without one?? I dont know, personally I dont really care. Bottom line is this is an SC site, dedicated to the preservation and performance of the 89-95 for ford thunderbird SUPERCOUPE and 89-90 mercury cougar XR7. People are going to discuss what works and doesnt work on these cars. I've seen both the postive and negative discussed. If I really wanted to discuss LS1s I'd get myself a labotomy and join a Chevy site. Why do people come onto a clearly car specific site (thunderbird SC) and want to discuss everything but SCs??

Rick


<--- unbunching panties now
 
I was discussing the same thing with my mechanic today.....:rolleyes:

Would an SC still be an SC even if it had a 4.6 or a 5.0 with a blower on it?

Is an SC still an SC with an Auto rotor on it?:confused:

Inquiring minds want to know.......
 
the-big-e said:
I was discussing the same thing with my mechanic today.....:rolleyes:

Would an SC still be an SC even if it had a 4.6 or a 5.0 with a blower on it?

Is an SC still an SC with an Auto rotor on it?:confused:

Inquiring minds want to know.......

Been covered. Only thing we ended up with was Dave's SuperTurboCoupe thing.

Oh, and Cats > Birds. Period.
 
Wait a dam minute...N/A does not equal instant power..Unless you have an automatic with a converter in the sweet spot...Or a manual car where you dump the clutch at god knows what RPM.

As for forms of unatural aspiration give me a turbo any day...Or a centrifigal blower. Absolutely love it!
 
some deep thinking

I wasnt sure that you actually used a thought process. Im convinced you take your daily crap in the morning, scoop it out of the toilet and inject it into your skull.
 
P.s. this is my first and prob last serious post ever. so take it seriously.

youre better off just making it your last post in general.
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Wait a dam minute...N/A does not equal instant power..Unless you have an automatic with a converter in the sweet spot...Or a manual car where you dump the clutch at god knows what RPM.

As for forms of unatural aspiration give me a turbo any day...Or a centrifigal blower. Absolutely love it!

NA power in the form of a big block or at least a small block with big CI's is instant power. If I had to say one thing about my XR7, it's that it reminds me of my 429CJ from days gone by.

As for turbo, power, I've never really liked it. It's great for fly-by's and burning rubber but every turbo I've driven always suffers from a lack of thrust control and blow off valves are down right annoying. Centrifugal blowers are only good if you have enough grunt to get you into the boost in the first place. They've never been any good on small displacement motors (or at least small in comparison to the curb weight of the "thing" they are installed in).

That doesn't mean I'm anti-turbo, it just means that I think there is a very real reason why the positive displacement blowers work so well in our cars.
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
As for forms of unatural aspiration give me a turbo any day...Or a centrifigal blower. Absolutely love it!
Okay, you can love it all you want, but it doesn't change what is what it is. I can honestly assure you that if a 1200hp centrifugal blower car went up against my 1200hp NA car at the same exact weight I would mop it up.

Who wants to just wait for power? Then again, if you get a positive displacement blower then the power is there as soon as you go WOT.
 
CMac89 said:
Okay, you can love it all you want, but it doesn't change what is what it is. I can honestly assure you that if a 1200hp centrifugal blower car went up against my 1200hp NA car at the same exact weight I would mop it up.

Who wants to just wait for power? Then again, if you get a positive displacement blower then the power is there as soon as you go WOT.


well you get ur na 1200 honda fwd, and i will take my 1200hp rear engine dragster.

its all about pulley setups on a centrif blower. plus who in the hell wants to make 99 percent of there torque at 2200 rpms, last time i checked this wasn't stroking and cummins .com
 
the roots blowers give instant response.
they are easier to tune because they are rpm controled .
and the computers can adjust for the boost as it is a constant.based on throttle position and rpm so much rpm so much boost . so much fuel ect.

with a centrifical you can adjust it via pulleys for lower rpms but not as low as a roots, + a roots does not leak pressure back like a centrifical does .
when a centrifical is at low rpms the boost leaks back out it has no way to seal the boost in .thus the backflow

a centrifical blower compresses air after the blower in a straighted chamber where velocitys turn to boost . in a roots the air is moved towards the front of case and out where compression takes place in the manifold and air is not able to go back out where it came from.

a turbo makes boost via high rpm of its rotor"vanes" it works much the same as a centrifical other than its exh driven.
a turbo will make more hp and tax less than a roots or centrifical.

the centrifical will take less hp to run than a roots .

but a roots is the best all around setup for a heavy street car right now as computer programs and tech goes on the turbos will be the best but for now its just to hard to program all the variables in for a turbo setup on a street car that see's hills and different elivations all in a matter of hrs .

but this will change soon .

as it is a well tuned roots is the best for the dual porpose sc owner.

I think a m112 can hold its own pretty darn good with a AR up to a point a point we have not reached yet the little m90 is about out of breath .

maybe a few more mods can be done to it but its maxed out pretty much .

the AR and the m112 will take us well into the next stages of sc racing. and a turbo will be great for a race only sc but as i said it is not best suited for the street driven sc "yet!!'":eek:
 
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oldschoolmuscle said:
plus who in the hell wants to make 99 percent of there torque at 2200 rpms
Why not if it makes mid-range and top end tq to follow it? You can control low end torque with gearing so if your motor makes alot of torque down low then put less gear in it. I don't know where you get the mindset that low end torque is all you get out of a positive displacement blower. Only thing it changes is how and when you build the boost. The reason it makes big low end numbers is because it is providing the motor with near peak CFM at low RPM's, but still as well provides it in the upper RPM range. What is this? It is called "average HP." I get tired of talking about average HP, but seems some don't understand, or they are just ignorant.

Now if this debate was over the M90 then your point would be well taken, but it is about a positive displacement blower in general, in which, includes larger displacement roots and/or twin screw blowers.

Any forced induction type can achieve a very good CFM capability so what is the difference? The question in performance is how and when do you want that power? In drag racing you want it as soon as you go WOT. Sure pulley setup's will help the time it takes for centrifugal blower's to build boost, but it won't come close to whenever the positive displacement blower builds boost so you still lose.
 
I for one never loose.
at least I dont let anyone know I did.lol:D
positive displacment blowers be it a AR whipple or eaton are great for a sc . turbos are not the way at this point in time. maybe in the future but for now a positive displacement is the way to go. in my mind anyway.
 
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oldschoolmuscle said:
its all about pulley setups on a centrif blower.

finally you make sense. And are correct... its ALL about pulley combo's on how much boost you make, and how fast it comes in.

Ive done the tests myself, and have seen the outcomes first hand.

2.75" blower / 6.87" crank = 4lbs initial, and climbs to 10-11lbs by 5000-5200, and finally peaks 15lbs by 6100.

3.33" blower / 8.00" crank = 7lbs initial, and climbs very fast to peak boost (16lbs) by 4000, and holds til 6100.

The problem with the second combo was, it made the car way too "un streetable". Making all that boost lower in the RPM range was causing nothing but tire spin (this is matting the gas from 50-55mph rolls in 3rd gear).

If it was a track only car, the second combo would have been better..but for street playing, the power im giving up in the lower RPM range is actually more benefitial.
 
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