90' T-Bird SC. Help me?

[getaddicted342]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/bombcityskin/AlansTBird.jpg

I bought this car several months ago, and I really like it.. depsite all the problems I've had. I'll run down the list a little bit. I'll be the first to admit I'm not very knowledgable about cars, and I've been having some real trouble. Definately new to the game.

The car has about 114,000 miles on it, set to California emission standards (though I live in OKC, OK). 2,500 at the dealership. However, it had some problems from the get-go that I worked with them to have fixed. Both window motors were replaced, a new ac compressor and freon conversion kit was put in. Fixed the speakers, put in a cd player. Rebuilt the transmission, and installed a new distributor coil pack.

After all that I thought I was finished, but now it comes down to 3 outstanding problems with the car. One is just the auto seatbelt on the drivers side is stuck in the forward position, and its motor runs every time the door opens and closes. Second, the temperature gauge is shot. The third problem is a lot more dramatic, and was the reason the coil pack was replaced.

After driving the car for a little bit (20-30 minutes usually) the power suddenly cuts out, and I can feel and hear an ugly clunking sound (misfire maybe?). I can still drive the car, but the harder you push it.. the worse it gets. The RPM raises but the car lurches forward, and it feels like I'm breaking something important. I always have to put on the hazards and take the nearest turn. Once I turn the car off, I sometimes have trouble restarting, but I've always been able to get it running again and take it home - I just can't trust this car for transportation and it's really interfering with my job.

Any advice, comments, whatever would be really appreciated. I've had a lot of trouble finding help, and help is needed.

[Jake]

Try spraying some WD-40 into the track of the seatbelt and work it with your hand to free it up.

Temp gauge look under the hood just above the water pump you'll see a yellow cap that reads something like "Remove before Radiator fill" and make sure its hooked to the sensor.

The main problem you mention could be tranny related, have you checked the tranny fluid while it idles and warm? Could be the cam sensor also.

[getaddicted342]

I haven't really done anything apart from replacing that coil pack on the advice of a friend. To be honest, I wouldn't even know where the cam sensor is, or how to check the tranny fluid at all.

I'm doing my part to learn basic car maintenance and repair etc, but until I have better knowhow I'll need pretty specific advice. I'll try the wd-40 for the seatbelt and check the temperature sensor though, like you said.

Could the problem be something as simple as the wrong gas? Plugs and wires? Fuel filter? Part of the problem is I don't even know what I'm talking about when I describe what's wrong. If it's a tranny or cam problem, what would be the first steps to fixing it, and what would the cost be approx? Could it also be a problem with the computer?

[skydivr7673]

does it give you a check engine light when this happens? When the engine is running, does the light come on?

[getaddicted342]

The check gauges light is always on, but the check engine light I don't believe has ever been on.

[Jake]

Well you don't want to start relpacing parts for no reason on a SC it can get costly. Checking the tranny fluid is rather easy look on the passenger side engine compartment next to the throttle linkage almost against the firewall you'll see a dip stick that is for checking the tranny fluid. You do have an auto right? You'll need to check it while it is running and warm.

You also might want to check the plug wires. I had #1 wire fall off b/c it was under the A/C compressor and I had a hard time getting it on and it caused symptoms similar to yours.

Could be a major vac leak too tho.

[the-big-e]

It might be clogged cats causing the misfire...

Have they ever been replaced?

[cougarsc]

Also check the #5 and #6 spark plug wires. You may have them switched.

http://www.mn12performance.com/mn12how-to/sparkplugs/scplugs.gif

http://www.mn12performance.com/mn12how-to/sparkplugs/sparkplugs.htm

Also, send me a PM, I could come and help if needed.

[getaddicted342]

The cats haven't been checked, no. Very little has been done to the car. I've been doing what I can on my own but without much money or knowhow it's been really limited.

I'm planning to check the tranny fluid a little later today, as well as the temp sensor.. and if I don't get lost under the hood, the spark plug wires too.

What throws me is that this is a very intermitant (sp?) problem. The car runs great until these little bouts.

Also to correct myself before, the tachometer does NOT raise when the power cuts out. I remembered wrong.

An unrelated question - I'm thinking of joining the SCCoA. It looks like there's a lot of good advice and discounts available for members. Should I?

[Cobra85]

Have one of the local auto parts stores run a code check to see what codes the car is throwing. Then post each code here, someone will be able to better help you then. Describing what the car is doing not a good way to find the problem.

[getaddicted342]

I know it's not exactly the best way to figure out what's wrong with the car, but it's more or less my last option.

I took it to autozone weeks ago and they didn't have the right system, so I took it to a family friend who has a transmission place. He ran the codes for me, and I let my uncle do the talking. I never even heard what code it was, but I was told it only came back with one.. and that it corresponded with replacing the coil pack. I did that with no result.

[FredSC]

First the easy one. SCCOA -- ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!
It will be the BEST 15 bucks you ever spent. The people are great and the information is even better!!
You might want to stick your hand down in the center of the crank pulley (with engine off) and check that the bolt head is still their. (one of the signs that the harmonic balancer is gone).

I had a 90 that would intermitently buck for years. It would be ok then out of the blue I would be "coasting to the curb" or bucking like a bronco. I was real close to selling it when I stumbled onto the SCCOA and found out the "probable" cause. I replaced the crank sensor (need a 5.5mm socket and match cover on BOTH sides). It was exactly what was wrong. Returned my SC to "SC-Ya" condition. Hope you decide to join and BEST of TIMES/luck with you SC!!!
--Fred

[getaddicted342]

Just an update to anyone interested in helping with my car troubles.

Yesterday I drove it over to a friends house, and on the way it started to rock like it often does, and then died. The car wouldn't start at all, but I was 2 blocks from his house.. so I locked it up, walked the rest of the way, then we towed it back to his garage. Once we were there we had to charge the battery to run it up on ramps. We replaced the crank sensor, made sure everything was how it should be, and gave it a test drive. Halfway around the block it started to rock (or whatever you would call it) again, and died. We could barely get it started again, and when it DID start it would die if you didn't constantly give it gas.

After getting it back to his place, we charged the battery again, and tried our best to get it back to my garage. It rocked twice and died 3 times on the way, the last time as I turned onto my street. I had to coast up my driveway and push it into the garage.

So the crank sensor is ruled out, and it looks like my battery might be shot too. What's the next step? I don't know whether to move to the DIS module, cam sensor.. of if it's even a problem in the ignition system at all. My friend told me to check the fuel pressure, but I wouldn't know where to begin. I have maybe 200 dollars to fix this thing, and that's a push. Is a mechanic out of the question? Should I really keep going on the parts when over 100 bucks has done nothing at all? I'm getting told by several people to get rid of the car, and I'm getting really frusterated.

[anlo]

did the "dis" module ( grey thing on top of the coil pack) get changed as well?
cutting off after 20 - 30 mins. symptoms sounds real familiar. im going to go with dis module if it was not replaced.

[SPR BRD]

Try checking the balancer. Does the car have more than 100,000 on it?

When the balancer went bad one of my 90's, before it totally gave up, I had simular symptoms.

Is the battery light on dash on while it's running?
Have battery tested (for free at most parts houses).
Does your problem start after it's warmed up or does it happen whenever?
Check the DIS if it's only after it warms up.
Does it affect your whole powerband or just certain RPM ranges?
Fuel Filter?
Bad sparkplug wires?
Could be the CATs, but usually only if it runs funny all the time (and smells like rotten eggs)

Oh... and the seat belt thing, you're going to have go get a new plastic drive ribbon for the darn thing. You can get one from the junk yard, but you'll be replacing it soon too.

Keep Hope. When they run right... They're flat awsome.

[getaddicted342]

The DIS has not been replaced, and the car has about 145,000 miles. I haven't checked into anything about the balancer, as most people have told me it's probably a problem in the ignition system somewhere. If it was the balancer.. what would that set me back?

It's in the shop right now, but money is tight so I may or may not have the work done. There were stored trouble codes though, that hadn't shown up on the last test. 3 of them. One for low voltage, the other 2 for a fuel pump issue. If it were a bad fuel pump could that be the problem altogether? My next step was going to be to replace the DIS module, but this has me wondering.

To answer a couple questions I missed though. It does seem to happen more after the car has warmed up a little. It also seems to happen more at low speeds. I keep it off the highway these days, but it hasn't happened on the highway at all. Usually in neighborhoods and on the return drives. Of course before I took it to the shop, it was happening more frequently and the battery was constantly losing its charge.

Also on a sidenote, after changing out the crank sensor we were running it with the hood up for a while, and I saw that the engine was bumping noticably when it messed up. I'm sure that could be expected of any kind of problem like this.. but thought I would add that, if it might mean something special in this case. Ya never know.

[getaddicted342]

I really didn't think on a board about SC's I would hit a dead end, but it's coming pretty close. 2 weeks at the mechanic and he calls me saying he was able to duplicate the problem ONE time, and he has no idea what it is. Yes, the same problem I can't drive a single block because of. It took him 2 full weeks to even figure out what I was talking about. That is NOT a good sign.

I can't say much, since I myself don't know what it is.. but is this really such a crazy unreasonable problem? All he did was pull the trouble codes and burn up a tank of premium. If I don't figure this out soon I will be getting rid of the car. I can't go replacing parts one by one by one. I have no job and no income until I have a car. So every day I sit and wait and think I'm losing time and money, and everything is getting worse and worse. I needed this fixed 3 months before my first post.. and I'm still in same place I started. Any help? You'll be saving an SC. I can't sit around any longer and wait for posts that aren't coming. This is crunch time or the car is gone.

Everyone I talk to has something different to say. I've heard fuel pump, fuel filter, plugs, plug wires, balancer, dis module, crank sensor (replaced to no effect), cam sensor. The list goes on. Can't play this game right now. The ONLY thing I have to go on right now is 1 low voltage code that I knew about already and 2 stored fuel pump issue codes, yet the fuel pump IS getting pressure. I mentioned the fuel pump and asked several questions (and answered several questions) in my last post that were unseen or ignored.

[the-big-e]

Diagnosing an engine problem via the inter-net can be quite frustrating......:mad:

I was leaning toward a fuel issue, but you said that you have good fuel pressure....

Where have you checked for pressure?

When the "rocking/bucking" happens, are you under acceleration or just crusing at a constant speed......

[JStudrawa]

I really didn't think on a board about SC's I would hit a dead end, but it's coming pretty close. 2 weeks at the mechanic and he calls me saying he was able to duplicate the problem ONE time, and he has no idea what it is. Yes, the same problem I can't drive a single block because of. It took him 2 full weeks to even figure out what I was talking about. That is NOT a good sign.

I can't say much, since I myself don't know what it is.. but is this really such a crazy unreasonable problem? All he did was pull the trouble codes and burn up a tank of premium. If I don't figure this out soon I will be getting rid of the car. I can't go replacing parts one by one by one. I have no job and no income until I have a car. So every day I sit and wait and think I'm losing time and money, and everything is getting worse and worse. I needed this fixed 3 months before my first post.. and I'm still in same place I started. Any help? You'll be saving an SC. I can't sit around any longer and wait for posts that aren't coming. This is crunch time or the car is gone.

Everyone I talk to has something different to say. I've heard fuel pump, fuel filter, plugs, plug wires, balancer, dis module, crank sensor (replaced to no effect), cam sensor. The list goes on. Can't play this game right now. The ONLY thing I have to go on right now is 1 low voltage code that I knew about already and 2 stored fuel pump issue codes, yet the fuel pump IS getting pressure. I mentioned the fuel pump and asked several questions (and answered several questions) in my last post that were unseen or ignored.

When I had rough running problems, it turned out to be the MAF sensor connections. Have you pulled everything apart and snapped it back together?

If you're not working because this car is not working, I'd get another car ASAP regardless. No sense in not working.

[birds4us]

I'm leaning towards a MAF sensor. They usually don't set a code in a Ford and can be very hard to diagnose. I've never driven a SC with a MAF disconnected, but a 4.6 with the MAF sensor disconnected will run like a raped ape. Just my 0.2 cents.

[the-big-e]

I forgot about that.....:rolleyes:

A dirty MAF wire is very easy DIY job.....

Get a can of carb. cleaner.....

Diconnect your MAF from the intake tube and spray the cleaner on the MAF wire......

Reassemble and test.....

Simple to do and worth a try.....

[getaddicted342]

Thanks for posts. I'll reply to all of them at once.

I couldn't tell you where fuel pressure was checked, as it just got back from the mechanics today and they were the ones that did all that checking. All I heard was there were 2 stored fuel pump trouble codes, and I am getting fuel pressure. Remember I'm not really a car guy yet, so half of the stuff I say I couldn't explain. That's what I was told though.

Also the bucking can start anytime. Usually during acceleration, but taking your foot off the gas doesn't make it stop once it starts. Also in driving it home I noticed smoke from the exhaust. I don't know what that means exactly but I know it's not good.

This is the first I've heard about the MAF sensor, and I can try that. I don't think that would explain the smoke, but every step is one step closer I guess. I can definately try cleaning it, but does that sound like the main problem? It's very discouraging when a mechanic can't figure it out in 2 weeks.

He also left a drink on my trunk or something. There are brownish rust looking marks, one in a ring. Cleaning wax didn't take it off.. so that's just one more thing to stress about. I'm not working right now because I have less than 10 dollars to my name and absolutely no transportation or job prospects. It's looking pretty bleak.

[JStudrawa]

Thanks for posts. I'll reply to all of them at once.

I couldn't tell you where fuel pressure was checked, as it just got back from the mechanics today and they were the ones that did all that checking. All I heard was there were 2 stored fuel pump trouble codes, and I am getting fuel pressure. Remember I'm not really a car guy yet, so half of the stuff I say I couldn't explain. That's what I was told though.

Also the bucking can start anytime. Usually during acceleration, but taking your foot off the gas doesn't make it stop once it starts. Also in driving it home I noticed smoke from the exhaust. I don't know what that means exactly but I know it's not good.

This is the first I've heard about the MAF sensor, and I can try that. I don't think that would explain the smoke, but every step is one step closer I guess. I can definately try cleaning it, but does that sound like the main problem? It's very discouraging when a mechanic can't figure it out in 2 weeks.

He also left a drink on my trunk or something. There are brownish rust looking marks, one in a ring. Cleaning wax didn't take it off.. so that's just one more thing to stress about. I'm not working right now because I have less than 10 dollars to my name and absolutely no transportation or job prospects. It's looking pretty bleak.

Color of smoke from exhaust?

[getaddicted342]

Dark. Grey / Black.

[the-big-e]

Dark. Grey / Black.
Sounds like it is running too rich of a fuel mixture.....

[getaddicted342]

It's premium in the tank. I don't know what the problem is.

I can say I'm closer than ever to getting rid of this pos though. I see the potential in it, I've grown to like it.. but I'm gonna have a heart attack. Everybody that says something has a different idea. Nobody answers questions directly. Everyone has a different part they think I should replace. I appreciate it. Really, but here is the situation.

I have less than 10 dollars to my name. That's in my wallet and in my bank account combined. It'll probably go to cigarettes. I have zero income. No job. No way to get to a job if I did have one. I bought this car from a dealership who seriously screwed me over apparently.. and now I'm stuck in very bad position of inexperience and frustration and over 3 thousand dollars of debt for a car that I can't drive.

More than anything I'd like to get this thing fixed and reliable, and I know that nobody can just snap their fingers and come up with the right answer.. otherwise I would have done so months ago. What it's coming down to is one of my worst nightmares. Trade in the bird for a crappy Honda and cut my losses that are already way way over my head.

[birds4us]

Try disconnecting the MAF sensor and drive the car. It should run very well, but may not idle well. Let us know if that helps or makes it worse.

[getaddicted342]

With MAF attached: Runs unreliably with shifts in power, clicks, all that jazz. The same old stuff. Feels like you could drive it, but also feels like it would die if I took it around the block. On top of the bucking thing making a possible appearance.

The bucking thing was more of a problem when it was the ONLY problem. At this point it feels like everything is failing that can fail. I haven't had the bucking problem in a good while because I haven't been able to keep the car running long enough.

WIth MAF detached: Barely runs at all. Fades in and out until the engine dies.

By the way the mechanic wanted 400 dollars to replace the fuel pump.. and he had no idea if that had anything to do with the problem. It's so difficult to hold in the flood of cursewords. I'll tell ya.

[birds4us]

Like I said, it won't idle well, you will need to power brake it, but once you get it going it should run like never brfore if that is the problem.

[JStudrawa]

Call this guy...
__________________________________________________ __________
Oklahoma
Shop Name: Jerry's Automotive
Shop Address: 117 W Main
Edmond, OK 73034
Shop Phone Number: 405-341-7551
Shop Website:

Mechanic Name: J R

Comments: I have known these people since the 80's. Shirley is the boss and mom to the mechanics there and they are great to work with. J R and his fellow mechanics have been the only mechanics to work on my SC since I have had it and they have worked on my past cars over the years, which were a Boss 302, Shelby GT 500, GT 350 H, SVO, among others. They can work on any make and model of car. If you don't know anyone personally who can help you with an SC in your area, I recommend Jerry's for excellent service and assistance.
__________________
Lance A. Morgan
__________________________________________________ ____________

[birds4us]

Sounds to me like you took it to the wrong mechanic.

[dino3.8]

don't pay the 400 if he didn't fix it then he did do nothing. i sisters car would do that i am try to remember what the problem was i know its a sencer but i can't remember which one it is cause we took her car everywhere to get fix and replace alot of stuff but if didn't stop so my uncle bought it and with in a week it was running right so i have to ask him what it was so i get back to you on this tomorrow

[Tony8470]

You need to try replacing the plugs and wires? Always start with a full tune up when you buy a used car. No excuses.

Sometimes when you have bad plugs/wires it can cause your symptoms. Also try cleaning your MAF, the metal thing next to your air box. Try the easy stuff before you start throwing money at it.

[papax4]

I have a '90 T-Bird that had the same sort of problem you describe.

As I would drive along, the car would start this bucking bronco crap that felt like it was going to break the transmission. Very intermittent. Flooring it, or pulling it down a couple of gears to increase the RPM would of course lessen the jerking.

I pulled to the side of the road one day while it was doing its thing and wiggled the wire loom right beside the cam sensor. This is in the middle of the engine at the front, between the super charger nose, and DIS module. A couple of these wires go on down to the crank sensor, a couple go to the cam sensor, and several plug into the DIS module. Cam sensor is the little stubby thing that would be a distributor in a normal 3.8L or 4.0L V-6. It's tucked handily beneath the super charger pulley nose where it feels protected. So, when pulling on these wires, the engine started running smoothly again, and would run rough again with continued manipulation of the harness.

Since the cam sensor is easiest to change, that’s what I did first, and the car has not acted up in like a year since. I bought the cam sensor at the local Shucks for about $15 as I remember. Try this, should only take you 15 minutes as it is one plug, and 2 8-32 screws that hold it. Hope this helps.

Also, I had a 1991 SC that did a little bit of bucking once it was up to speed, and cruising along. Kind of a "mild" version of the above problem. But, this was a simple fix because the engine trouble codes indicated that it was a right side Oxygen sensor, and replacing it resolved the problem.

Bert Brown