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ThunderGodRacin
04-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Alright Guys, I have looked all over this and other forms looking for any glimps of hope in running a T56 in our cars. I have seen bits and pieces but nothing in a finished deal.
1. Can it be done
2. What needs to be done to make it work correctly
3. (Bottom Line) How Much

If this can be done I'm sure that someone here knows how, Lord knows that no one out side of here gives a [email protected]! about these cars. I leave it in your capable hands.

Thanks
TGR

Justin89SC
04-11-2006, 05:31 PM
I would also like to fine a way to put a different tranny in my SC.

darkstar_one
04-11-2006, 06:28 PM
it cannot be done... the t-56 bell house bolt pattern is for the 4.6 and 5.4... only the T-5 and T-45 will bolt onto the SC... the sc has the same bolt pattern as a 5.0... so in other words NO!

fast Ed
04-11-2006, 06:49 PM
Not quite right. The T-45 only came in the mod. V8 bellhousing pattern, as did the OEM T-56. But you can buy an aftermarket T-56 with a 5.0 bellhousing, which would bolt to the back of a 3.8. Obviously a bunch more work is needed after that.

A guy here in Ontario did it several years ago, with lots of custom work, and mixing and matching of parts.

http://www.sccoa.com/sccoo/Faq/6speedsc.htm

With currently available parts, it may be easier to make it go.


cheers
Ed N.

Big Cat Davo
04-11-2006, 06:56 PM
Um, you do know that there is an Aftermarket T56 available for the 5.0 right? Guess not. I do beleive that there are a few here that have done it, a search may help.

Dave

darkstar_one
04-11-2006, 09:00 PM
i think its obvious that i didnt know because i dont really snoop around alot... Anywho... would you still need to convert to cable clutch? Or can you still use the hydraulic clutch?

68COUGAR
04-11-2006, 10:15 PM
would you still need to convert to cable clutch? Or can you still use the hydraulic clutch?
I think that would depend on if there is a hyd. throw-out bearing avail. for the T56.

68COUGAR

MarksM
04-12-2006, 12:51 AM
This subject has been thoroughly discussed before. It is possible using mostly stock parts.

LS1 T56 mated to McLeod universal bellhousing.
http://members.tccoa.com/thundar/tranny/t56_bh.jpg

talonhead
06-22-2008, 03:35 PM
Just test fitted trans/bell housing/engine today:

Since my engine is done for a going through, I unboxed the McLeod Bell (from Summit $400 or so), pulled off the flywheel and popped out the pilot bearing (kit provides a bushing, did not install yet). Put a couple of bolts in the bell and a few in trans (LS1 T-56 from NY Block Exchange, Reman w/ warranty $2000). So far so good.
NOTE: The pilot shaft goes deep into the pilot hole of the crank, the end of the splines just into hole. Have to measure how deep. ? - is it enough to turn down to M5R2 pilot dia and use a Bearing?----we'll find out. Will probaly use the bushing for now..Unexpected balancer failure is using up cushion $$

Tough to find JUST a clutch plate these days...everybody wants to sell kits. did manage to order a McLeod from PAW (only place with one in stock that I could find). am going to reuse my Sach's pressure plate as it doesen't have much miles on it and the slave (all replaced at the same time due to slave failure).

Went with a Hurst Billit Plus shifter after talking to Camaro and GTO owners that had had B&M's and didn't like them.-

Still have to order a Dakota Signals conversion box for speedo output.

Local shop can build a custom drive shaft. Will measure when test fitting eng/trans for crossmember mods.

Good thing about having a detachable bellhousing....don't have to jack the car up to the sky to get the trans under!

Took some pic today, have to put new battaries in camera and download to computer so I can post.
MikeH

Duffy Floyd
06-22-2008, 03:40 PM
My concern would be the torque rating of the T-56. Wouldn't a World Class T-5 be a better choice?

ricardoa1
06-22-2008, 04:18 PM
Just test fitted trans/bell housing/engine today:

Since my engine is done for a going through, I unboxed the McLeod Bell (from Summit $400 or so), pulled off the flywheel and popped out the pilot bearing (kit provides a bushing, did not install yet). Put a couple of bolts in the bell and a few in trans (LS1 T-56 from NY Block Exchange, Reman w/ warranty $2000). So far so good.
NOTE: The pilot shaft goes deep into the pilot hole of the crank, the end of the splines just into hole. Have to measure how deep. ? - is it enough to turn down to M5R2 pilot dia and use a Bearing?----we'll find out. Will probaly use the bushing for now..Unexpected balancer failure is using up cushion $$

Tough to find JUST a clutch plate these days...everybody wants to sell kits. did manage to order a McLeod from PAW (only place with one in stock that I could find). am going to reuse my Sach's pressure plate as it doesen't have much miles on it and the slave (all replaced at the same time due to slave failure).

Went with a Hurst Billit Plus shifter after talking to Camaro and GTO owners that had had B&M's and didn't like them.-

Still have to order a Dakota Signals conversion box for speedo output.

Local shop can build a custom drive shaft. Will measure when test fitting eng/trans for crossmember mods.

Good thing about having a detachable bellhousing....don't have to jack the car up to the sky to get the trans under!

Took some pic today, have to put new battaries in camera and download to computer so I can post.
MikeH

Where does the shifter land?

Hock
06-22-2008, 04:51 PM
My concern would be the torque rating of the T-56. Wouldn't a World Class T-5 be a better choice?

I thought the World Class T-5 was only rated for around 295 ft/lbs.

Am I wrong?

getblown
06-22-2008, 07:03 PM
My concern would be the torque rating of the T-56. Wouldn't a World Class T-5 be a better choice?

Really, with all of the Kenne Bell 03/04 cars running around, your worried about the torque ratings?

jOe

Awesome, your giving me more hope each day for this.

fturner
06-22-2008, 09:42 PM
Really, with all of the Kenne Bell 03/04 cars running around, your worried about the torque ratings?

jOe

Awesome, your giving me more hope each day for this.

Do those Kenne Bell setups slam all the torque the motor produces into the tranny by 2600 RPM's or do they gradually build torque as RPM climbs?

Frit

XxSlowpokexX
06-23-2008, 01:07 AM
Cobras are a lil lighter then SC's...But I still think the t56 should be fine for us.

My question is how will you hook up hydraulics? Getting the tranny in has always been the easy part

Also use a gto shifter

93Blackbird
06-23-2008, 09:00 AM
I know for sure that it will fit as I have ridden in a 91 T-bird with a T-56. There is a guy that doesn't post much on any MN12 based forums that lives in Rome, GA that converted his 5.0 car to a hydraulic setup T-5, then turned around a couple years later and put in the T-56. The car is wicked as hell too as it has a 331 twin turbo setup to go with the 6 speed. I could ask him to do a writeup about the conversion....

ricardoa1
06-23-2008, 10:59 AM
There is not alot of information from people that have done this. I did not get to hear about the one that was attempted/completed? in an SC.

A new updated parts list can help get more people that are on the fence of this to take the jump.
The GTO T-56 is said to be stronger then the older camaro/firebird model. It is also supposed to put the shifter very close to the stock tunnel opening.

Most people know that with the MCleod adapter, it can be bolted up to a 3.8l/5.0l/5.8l, and different driveshaft length and modification to the cross member are necessary. But that about where it stops for common knowledge.

The other pieced that are of interest is what clutch, flywheel, slave cyl., starter are necessary to make it work.

Ford Racing catalogue has the T-56 for 5.0ls but we still have the shifter location with those units. And I think it is cable clutch still. $2400.

Mike8675309
06-23-2008, 11:09 AM
If you're gonna keep your car under 600rwhp then a T-56 from newer generation may work. For certain, the ones out of the Firebird and such from GM are not strong enough for our cars if pushing over 300lb/ft of torque. The Viper gear set would work from that era of T-56. That's when I was looking into it. I haven't dug around since.

Last time I looked (2 years ago) the T-56 was getting into the Hot Rod aftermarket big time with all sorts of options available including different tail shaft housings, shift lever positions, and different gears, mix and match stuff. I figured that I could find whatever I need when I'm ready.

Tremec has the torque ratings published on their site.

ricardoa1
06-23-2008, 11:59 AM
I noticed that they have a form for manufacturers to fill out.
I wonder if we get enough people in a buy we can get something custom set up to be a simple drop in.

Before we can ask them we would need measurements for our stock M5R2.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/images/appEngForm.gif

Size A
Size B
Size C
Size D
Size E
Size F
Size G
Size H

Input Shaft Pilot Dia.
Input Shaft (Spline Count)
Output Shaft (Spline Count)
Output Shaft Design
flange
slip yoke

Mike Puckett
06-23-2008, 12:53 PM
When I talked to a Tremec tech rep last year he recommended the TKO.

Super XR7
06-23-2008, 01:05 PM
Subscribing - something that I would like to do.

Mike8675309
06-23-2008, 01:25 PM
This has been talked about quite a bit. Here is a thread over on TCCoA that has a image of the M5R2 trans and dimensions.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=55283

Note that the future of manual transmissions is going to be the dual clutch transmissions. Their quite cool, and once they get rolling, their torque capacity should be quite nice.

XR7 Dave
06-23-2008, 01:30 PM
For certain, the ones out of the Firebird and such from GM are not strong enough for our cars if pushing over 300lb/ft of torque.

I don't know where these ideas come from. Stock LT1's made over 300ftlbs torque. The transmissions being referred to here might not stand up to 5500rpm clutch dumps, but neither will your axles. I would have no reservations about putting one in my car. They are stronger than an M5R2.

David Neibert
06-23-2008, 01:43 PM
I know for sure that it will fit as I have ridden in a 91 T-bird with a T-56. There is a guy that doesn't post much on any MN12 based forums that lives in Rome, GA that converted his 5.0 car to a hydraulic setup T-5, then turned around a couple years later and put in the T-56. The car is wicked as hell too as it has a 331 twin turbo setup to go with the 6 speed. I could ask him to do a writeup about the conversion....

I'd love to hear more about this car. BTW are you talking about Wes ?

David

Mike8675309
06-23-2008, 01:54 PM
I don't know where these ideas come from. Stock LT1's made over 300ftlbs torque. The transmissions being referred to here might not stand up to 5500rpm clutch dumps, but neither will your axles. I would have no reservations about putting one in my car. They are stronger than an M5R2.

Typical torque ratings for the T-56 pulled out of a oem car are 400-450 lb/ft. Viper ratings are 550lb/ft. If I go through the trouble to put a t-56 in my car, I'm not going to have much stock about the rest of my drivetrain. I guess I shouldn't assume the same of others.

Viper transmissions have unique spline counts. 26 on the input 30 on the output. Fbody's have 26 on the input, but 27 on the output. Fords have 10 on the input and 31 on the output.

It's a very doable swap if someone has the time and a transmission.

talonhead
06-23-2008, 03:19 PM
here are some pic of the eng/belh/trans plus some

talonhead
06-23-2008, 03:23 PM
here are some parts/boxes with P/Ns

talonhead
06-23-2008, 03:35 PM
did some measuring last night after work.
the center of the shifter on the t56 is maybe a little under an inch forward of the m5r2.

The trans looks to be about an inch shorter, but the trans mount is farther back 1-1 1/2".

The splined portion of pilot shaft goes into the crank pilot cavity about 1/4" maybe a tad more. (maybe a weld up and turn down to ford spec for some industrious person?)

Don't have an in the car fit up yet, have to call the machine shop to get pricing for work on engine.

Until the engine goes away for work I going to use it to fit as much as I can.
MikeH

talonhead
06-23-2008, 04:21 PM
Was looking through a bunch of downloads and printouts here are a couple of tid bits.
Here are the McLeod parts recommended by Billy M (Tech advisor @ McLeod)
260571 is a 26 spline 11" disc for the LS1 T-56.

361954 P/P (going to use the Sach's I have <2000 miles)

P20810 Pressure Plate Shim.

No you do not need to change your slave. (changed same time as P/P)

Haven't found anyone with the shim or any info about it.
This may actually be easier than it sounds?
MikeH

ricardoa1
06-23-2008, 05:00 PM
Trying to understand your notes.
The input shaft is too long where the pilot bearing is or is the spline part too bid and push/hit the pilot bearing.

I am also not following what clutch components you are going to use, are you using a LS1 T-56 clutch/pp with a 26 spline disc. And a stock LS1 slave or the stock SC slave?




Was looking through a bunch of downloads and printouts here are a couple of tid bits.
Here are the McLeod parts recommended by Billy M (Tech advisor @ McLeod)
260571 is a 26 spline 11" disc for the LS1 T-56.

361954 P/P (going to use the Sach's I have <2000 miles)

P20810 Pressure Plate Shim.

No you do not need to change your slave. (changed same time as P/P)

Haven't found anyone with the shim or any info about it.
This may actually be easier than it sounds?
MikeH

Toms-SC
06-23-2008, 05:42 PM
Very interesting.

XxSlowpokexX
06-23-2008, 06:37 PM
Rico. The setup I saw on an SC and I wish I could remeber who did it used a 4.6 flywheel clutch and starter. The appropriete splined disc was used. I assume they are rather generic..A 10.5 is a 10.5..Only spline count changes.

I just cant recall what slave setup was used. Othe rthen that its not so bad to do so it seems..The pilot bearing/bushing used in the swap I saw was custom made..Perhaps youll find info on tccoa

And here is from our very own scoa

http://sccoa.com/sccoo/Faq/6speedsc.htm

ricardoa1
06-23-2008, 06:48 PM
I am trying to also figure out what Mike H is using, I see part#s but no application.

talonhead
06-23-2008, 09:00 PM
T-56 Swap into 1993 SC (originally w/M5R2)
1993 3.8 SC engine w/138K (under a minor rebuild)
2000 LS1 Camaro T-56 6 speed trans
McLeod Belhousing Kit 8750-06(SBF/LS1 adaption)
Original Ford flywheel
McLeod Clutch disk 260571 1-1/8"x26spline (with a reverse button)
Sach's (OEM replacement SC w/M5R2) Pressure plate and slave
Hurst Billit Plus shifter (2000 Cam., no knob yet, probally mod the stick any way)


The pilot shaft goes in deep to the recess of crank (splines do not restrict) only about 1/4" of splines go in. (if this was going into a Hi HP setup AND I had the $$ might have a custom input shaft done with the pilot end made to fit the M5R2 pilot bearing vs using the bushing that is not very thick (maybe 3/8") (i.e. if I ever get to do a BBF/T56(LS1)-Bird -McLeod belhousing P/N 8746-06)

Measurements indicate the shifter is about 1" forward of stock position and the trans mount is about 1" farther back than stock. Also that the end of the output shaft is about 1" maybe a tad more towards the front (therefore needing a longer driveshaft)

Hope this is a little clearer.
MikeH

Mike8675309
06-23-2008, 09:30 PM
Since you have it apart, I would highly recommend some modeling clay and verifying dimensions. if possible, hook up your clutch master cylinder with the slave as well. then check all the dimensions, use the clay to check how far the pilot goes in.

Verify the alignment dowels will get your bell housing properly centered. No guarantee that it comes from perfect and it is very important that the input shaft is centered in the pilot bearing and lines up the clutch disk.

I think this link will tell you what I mean
http://circletrack.automotive.com/60221/ctrp-0404-bellhousing-alignment/index.html

ricardoa1
06-23-2008, 09:42 PM
T-56 Swap into 1993 SC (originally w/M5R2)
1993 3.8 SC engine w/138K (under a minor rebuild)
2000 LS1 Camaro T-56 6 speed trans
McLeod Belhousing Kit 8750-06(SBF/LS1 adaption)
Original Ford flywheel
McLeod Clutch disk 260571 1-1/8"x26spline (with a reverse button)
Sach's (OEM replacement SC w/M5R2) Pressure plate and slave
Hurst Billit Plus shifter (2000 Cam., no knob yet, probally mod the stick any way)


The pilot shaft goes in deep to the recess of crank (splines do not restrict) only about 1/4" of splines go in. (if this was going into a Hi HP setup AND I had the $$ might have a custom input shaft done with the pilot end made to fit the M5R2 pilot bearing vs using the bushing that is not very thick (maybe 3/8") (i.e. if I ever get to do a BBF/T56(LS1)-Bird -McLeod belhousing P/N 8746-06)

Measurements indicate the shifter is about 1" forward of stock position and the trans mount is about 1" farther back than stock. Also that the end of the output shaft is about 1" maybe a tad more towards the front (therefore needing a longer driveshaft)

Hope this is a little clearer.
MikeH



You are making it seem very easy.

How does the SC slave bolt on to the tranny? Does it mount up no problems?

talonhead
06-24-2008, 12:25 AM
Went out take some detail measurements (for the map) got a million measurements, then unbolted the slave from the 5 spd. and tried to slip it over the inpyt shaft on the '56..... no go! The splines on the '56 are larger than the input shaft.
splines:1-1/8"
shaft:1.0"
slave id:1.063"

I think that "Billy M" over at McLeod doesn't research enough or hurries too much and doesent get everything. Gonna shoot him a line.

Well, gotta go it's family night.

MikeH

talonhead
06-24-2008, 12:53 AM
Time for one last post before the movie starts.
Read the article on centering........But that method won't work as there is no round hole to align. The front of the T-56 is open and not round at all, and neither is the opening in the B-H see photo.
Good idea though, maybe I'll ask at the machine shop when I go to get prices.

ricardoa1
06-24-2008, 10:45 AM
So its safe to say that here comes the hard part, you might have to switch to an external slave to make it work. I wonder if the MCleod BellHous has provisions for the Chevy slave system.

Mike8675309
06-24-2008, 10:58 AM
fbody's were available with an internal slave I believe. Depended on the engine? Check with McLeod. Getting all the alignment and dimensions worked out is gonna be the real pain. Take your time as nothing is worse than getting it all buttoned up and the trans won't shift because something is hanging up somewhere.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=100037

For the slave and throwout bearing McLeod makes a slip-on/over-the-snout slave actuator with integral throwout bearing. This slave literally slips over the T56 input shaft and remains sandwiched between the pressure plate and transmission (read: no throw out fork required) within the bell housing. It also incorporates a bleed line for system bleeding (I'll bet this got your attention) and an internal adjustment collar which is used to move the slave closer to the pressure plate if needed. The slave is all metal, and rebuildable (o-rings). The actual throwout bearing also slips onto the slave cylinder and it too is replaceable. This slave has a stoke of ~ 0.650"; you need about 0.250" to release a clutch disk.

talonhead
06-24-2008, 02:47 PM
The LT1 had the external "pull type", the LS1 has the concentric (slip over) push type same basic design as the Ford. The problem is the hoses have different connections and the F body has a restrictor that prevents fast return back to the master.

Mike8675309
06-24-2008, 07:44 PM
Bahh.. if interested, check out phranquy over at www.midwestthundercats.com. he is swapping out a manual into his Mark VIII and had some brackets made to properly mount a wilwood clutch master cylinder. Then you can bag the stock connectors and use some standard AN fittings.

MarksM
06-25-2008, 02:09 AM
The LT1 had the external "pull type", the LS1 has the concentric (slip over) push type same basic design as the Ford. The problem is the hoses have different connections and the F body has a restrictor that prevents fast return back to the master.

Switch the connector from your Ford slave over to the T56 slave. It's fit with a roll pin :)

talonhead
06-25-2008, 04:00 AM
The price for a new t56 slave or slave & master kit just isn't in the budget with having to get a new balancer and it was bugging me big time! Sooo, I got out my poor mans spindle sander and opened up the inside of the ford slave tube until it fit over the splines on the t56.....but the input shaft quit turning when I started to tighten the slave bolts. Off it came and beveled the edges on the back of the slave, good to go! The tube still covers part of the splines so I was thinking of shaving the nose down to clear the splines.

I think I will change the hyd fitting posted above and switch to a braided line.
Now, got to work on the rest of the fit-up. Will post some pics when I put new batteries in the camera.

If this works, it might be helpful to others that want to do the swap and don't want/can't afford the $$ for an aftermarket slave/master setup.
MikeH

talonhead
06-25-2008, 04:11 AM
Got a call from McLeod yesterday about the slave and asked him about the spacer he recommended, as I couldn't find anyone who carried it or any info on it.

He told me that it's used because their clutch disks are thicker by .030-.055 than factory and is needed to give the correct pressure plate engagement.
So I'll get some shim stock and make my own.
Good night all.
MikeH

Micahdogg
06-25-2008, 12:50 PM
FYI, Mcleod offers universal slaves. There should be no reason to ditch the hydro clutch.

ricardoa1
06-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Has anyone been able to install Braided lines and hook up to the master?

talonhead
06-25-2008, 02:41 PM
Not ditching the hydro, kinda have to use one as the LT1/LS1 is not made to use a cable.

Anyone no a source for shim material? Figure I'll need several different thickness's to shim the pressure plate.
MikeH

MarksM
06-25-2008, 05:34 PM
The price for a new t56 slave or slave & master kit just isn't in the budget with having to get a new balancer and it was bugging me big time! Sooo, I got out my poor mans spindle sander and opened up the inside of the ford slave tube until it fit over the splines on the t56.....but the input shaft quit turning when I started to tighten the slave bolts. Off it came and beveled the edges on the back of the slave, good to go! The tube still covers part of the splines so I was thinking of shaving the nose down to clear the splines.

I think I will change the hyd fitting posted above and switch to a braided line.
Now, got to work on the rest of the fit-up. Will post some pics when I put new batteries in the camera.

If this works, it might be helpful to others that want to do the swap and don't want/can't afford the $$ for an aftermarket slave/master setup.
MikeH

they're like 50 bucks or so. The part number is the same for an S10 with a 5 speed if I remember right.

Mike8675309
06-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Do you know what size you want? you can pickup sheet metal at the hardware store and check how thick that is. A welder supply store may have a few different gauges of material.

talonhead
06-28-2008, 08:18 PM
have to check the weld supply houses around town.
MikeH

talonhead
06-28-2008, 09:55 PM
:)Hey ricardo1,
Barrowed the drawing you posted and came up with this one. have to add actual dims. input welcome.
MikeH

seawalkersee
06-29-2008, 10:35 PM
Thumbing through a MM&FF yesterday and there is an article there about upgrading the slave in the 05+ car. They had an aftermarket unit with about 7 shims with it when they set it up.

Chris

talonhead
06-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Found shims at the local true value 1" wide strips of stainless have to mix and match to get it right.

Gonna put the tranny and engine together w/o clutch parts, w/motor mnts. to get x-member fab'd up and shifter I-balled.

Does anyone know what the thread size for the clutch master outlet is? (Haven't pulled the line off yet)
MikeH

Mike Puckett
06-30-2008, 09:35 PM
The clutch line connects to the clutch master with a slip in O'ring and pin in groove to secure it.

decipha
06-30-2008, 09:40 PM
i have no clue what the clutch master outlet is... sry wish i could help

i've been really seriously thinking about putting a t56 in my s/c though. these m5s are just too much of a pain

talonhead
07-02-2008, 12:01 AM
This is somewhat mine looks like.
MikeH

talonhead
07-02-2008, 11:33 PM
Mike Puckett--
"The clutch line connects to the clutch master with a slip in O'ring and pin in groove to secure it."

Mike, you are indeed correct. After I took a stiff brush to the M/C connection (it was rust and dirt, not threads), I could see the pin.

MikeH

talonhead
07-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Tunnel is rough notched, x-member is rough notched and partially boxed and welded. Have to drop gas tank to prep for new d-shaft.
Trying to figure out what to do about cosmetics when I notch out the plastic console, thinking maybe a billit piece or tig some stainless and polish it.
Looks like the OEM slave line will fit, might use it until I can get a stainless braid hose and fittings.

MikeH

REGULATOR
07-12-2008, 01:39 AM
Got any pic's of the notched tunnel and x-member

talonhead
07-13-2008, 05:02 PM
No pics as yet. Still working it, looks like I will have to weld a "3rd leg" mount to the floor pan as OEM has only one bolt each side and the mounting block sits a little farther back. Have to put a string between the center of diff and engine to determine alignment and get measurement to have new d-shaft made.
MikeH

ricardoa1
07-16-2008, 04:26 PM
No pics as yet. Still working it, looks like I will have to weld a "3rd leg" mount to the floor pan as OEM has only one bolt each side and the mounting block sits a little farther back. Have to put a string between the center of diff and engine to determine alignment and get measurement to have new d-shaft made.
MikeH


I am confused about your post, are you talking about the cross member to hold the trans up?

ricardoa1
07-16-2008, 04:30 PM
Also D&D has said in the past, that they could do some T56s to viper specs with a ford input adapter bell and GM tailsection.

How many would be interested in something like this, and what price is it not too much.

Mike8675309
07-16-2008, 08:07 PM
Also D&D has said in the past, that they could do some T56s to viper specs with a ford input adapter bell and GM tailsection.

How many would be interested in something like this, and what price is it not too much.

I would love it... but I'm afraid I'd have to sell off a kid to purchase such.

talonhead
07-16-2008, 09:31 PM
ricardoa1,
Yes, I am talking about the trans X-member. Do to the trans mount being farther back than an M5R2 it causes the x to tilt down on the rear. I figure I can put a "leg" off to one side having a three point mount to the body. I think a new x-mem bolt, bushing and a perch welded to the floor pan will work very well.

The Viper internals with the GM tailshaft with a Ford input shaft would be good. Which is better the ford 1 1/16"X10 spline or the GM 1 1/8"X26 spline input shaft? I would think that the bigger shaft woould be better just cut the nose shorter and the pilot to ford dia. I'm not too crazy about using a bushing thats only about 1/4" +thick. If I had the bucks now I'd take it down and have it cut down so I could use a OEM style pilot brg.

MikeH

ricardoa1
07-17-2008, 01:18 PM
I just talked to D&D and they said they could set me up with a

Camaro hydraulic T-56 and put on the cobra 10 spline input shaft that they take out of the Cobra T-56 to put on 26s, to retain the stock clutch. And put on a 5.0l/3.8l alumunum bell housing, They have a few of those from donor trans. Then machine the VSS to accept the ford style VSS that they use on the later mustangs. The VSS has a magnetic pick up but feeds two wires, not the same as ours but the signal should be easier to conver then a GM style.

All for about 2800 plus freight. No Viper internal but he does not think we need them and the camaro stuff should be good enough. The only weak part about the Fbody t-56 is the output shaft.

ricardoa1
07-17-2008, 04:43 PM
What are you planning on doing about the Yoke and the speedo?

talonhead
07-17-2008, 05:43 PM
ricardoa1:What are you planning on doing about the Yoke and the speedo?
When I have the new d-shaft made it will have an LS1 yoke, the speedo conversion will be through a Dakota Digital unit.
Universal Speedometer Signal Interface SGI-5

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/category_id=287/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd126.htm

MikeH

Mike8675309
07-17-2008, 09:04 PM
I just talked to D&D and they said they could set me up with a

Camaro hydraulic T-56 and put on the cobra 10 spline input shaft that they take out of the Cobra T-56 to put on 26s, to retain the stock clutch. And put on a 5.0l/3.8l alumunum bell housing, They have a few of those from donor trans. Then machine the VSS to accept the ford style VSS that they use on the later mustangs. The VSS has a magnetic pick up but feeds two wires, not the same as ours but the signal should be easier to conver then a GM style.

All for about 2800 plus freight. No Viper internal but he does not think we need them and the camaro stuff should be good enough. The only weak part about the Fbody t-56 is the output shaft.


That sounds very nice. Maybe I'll save for that rather than rebuild my 5 speed sitting on the floor in the garage. I would go with an SFI bell housing if possible.. just to be on top of something like that. Now how about the output shaft? Make sure you let them know that SC cars have broken the output shaft on the stock 5 speed so we really need something stout back there. I know I wouldn't mind going bigger with u-joint due to a larger output shaft.

ricardoa1
07-18-2008, 01:03 AM
I am looking at the
GTO specs vs the Fbody versions.
What gears would be better for our application.

F-body..
2.66:1 1.78:1 1.30:1 1.00:1 0.74:1 0.50:1
GTO
2.97:1 2.07:1 1.43:1 1.00:1 0.84:1 0.57:1


Which one is better for 1/4mile and which one is better for the street. Assuming we have a nice set of rear end gears to suit .

getblown
07-18-2008, 11:46 AM
Well Ricardo, isn't the newer style M5R2 better for 1st-2nd gears becuase of a lower numerical number in 1st and 2nd? I think the F-body more closely resembles that of a newer style M5R2. I would say that it would be preference, do you like your newer style vs the older M5R2, a more violent/shorter first gear (GTO) and your cruising speed/rpms? A supercharged car like outs, you really dont need time for lag to boost, but a turbo car might think about sticking with the F-body for longer gears to help boost.

Mabye I'm wrong but .24 difference in 6th gear doesnt seem like much and either way with the double OD ive read that you can have something stupid high numerically in the rear like 4.55s and still be lower RPM/crusing speed than the SC M5R2, either version.

Joe

ricardoa1
07-18-2008, 12:32 PM
Here is a chart I calculated out. Sorry for the long post.

Later M5R2 with 3.08
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 4 6 10 13 17
600 5 7 12 15 21
700 5 8 13 18 24
800 6 10 15 21 27
900 7 11 17 23 31
1000 8 12 19 26 34
1100 8 13 21 28 38
1200 9 14 23 31 41
1300 10 15 25 33 45
1400 11 17 27 36 48
1500 11 18 29 39 51
1600 12 19 31 41 55
1700 13 20 33 44 58
1800 14 21 35 46 62
1900 14 23 36 49 65
2000 15 24 38 51 69
2100 16 25 40 54 72
2200 17 26 42 57 75
2300 17 27 44 59 79
2400 18 29 46 62 82
2500 19 30 48 64 86
2600 20 31 50 67 89
2700 20 32 52 69 93
2800 21 33 54 72 96
2900 22 35 56 75 99
3000 23 36 58 77 103
3100 23 37 60 80 106
3200 24 38 61 82 110
3300 25 39 63 85 113
3400 26 40 65 87 117
3500 26 42 67 90 120
3600 27 43 69 93 123
3700 28 44 71 95 127
3800 29 45 73 98 130
3900 29 46 75 100 134
4000 30 48 77 103 137
4100 31 49 79 105 141
4200 32 50 81 108 144
4300 32 51 83 111 147
4400 33 52 84 113 151
4500 34 54 86 116 154
4600 35 55 88 118 158
4700 35 56 90 121 161
4800 36 57 92 123 165
4900 37 58 94 126 168
5000 38 60 96 129 171
5100 38 61 98 131 175
5200 39 62 100 134 178
5300 40 63 102 136 182
5400 41 64 104 139 185
5500 41 65 106 141 189
5600 42 67 107 144 192
5700 43 68 109 147 195
5800 44 69 111 149 199
5900 44 70 113 152 202
6000 45 71 115 154 206


Later M5r2 2.73
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 4 7 11 15 19
600 5 8 13 17 23
700 6 9 15 20 27
800 7 11 17 23 31
900 8 12 19 26 35
1000 8 13 22 29 39
1100 9 15 24 32 43
1200 10 16 26 35 46
1300 11 17 28 38 50
1400 12 19 30 41 54
1500 13 20 32 44 58
1600 14 21 35 46 62
1700 14 23 37 49 66
1800 15 24 39 52 70
1900 16 26 41 55 74
2000 17 27 43 58 77
2100 18 28 45 61 81
2200 19 30 48 64 85
2300 20 31 50 67 89
2400 20 32 52 70 93
2500 21 34 54 73 97
2600 22 35 56 75 101
2700 23 36 58 78 104
2800 24 38 61 81 108
2900 25 39 63 84 112
3000 25 40 65 87 116
3100 26 42 67 90 120
3200 27 43 69 93 124
3300 28 44 71 96 128
3400 29 46 74 99 132
3500 30 47 76 102 135
3600 31 48 78 104 139
3700 31 50 80 107 143
3800 32 51 82 110 147
3900 33 52 84 113 151
4000 34 54 87 116 155
4100 35 55 89 119 159
4200 36 56 91 122 163
4300 36 58 93 125 166
4400 37 59 95 128 170
4500 38 60 97 131 174
4600 39 62 100 133 178
4700 40 63 102 136 182
4800 41 64 104 139 186
4900 42 66 106 142 190
5000 42 67 108 145 193
5100 43 69 110 148 197
5200 44 70 113 151 201
5300 45 71 115 154 205
5400 46 73 117 157 209
5500 47 74 119 160 213
5600 48 75 121 163 217
5700 48 77 123 165 221
5800 49 78 126 168 224
5900 50 79 128 171 228
6000 51 81 130 174 232


GTO 3.73
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 4 5 7 11 13 19
600 4 6 9 13 15 22
700 5 7 10 15 18 26
800 6 8 12 17 20 30
900 6 9 13 19 23 34
1000 7 10 15 21 25 37
1100 8 11 16 23 28 41
1200 9 12 18 25 30 45
1300 9 13 19 28 33 48
1400 10 14 21 30 35 52
1500 11 15 22 32 38 56
1600 11 16 24 34 40 60
1700 12 17 25 36 43 63
1800 13 18 27 38 46 67
1900 14 19 28 40 48 71
2000 14 21 30 42 51 75
2100 15 22 31 45 53 78
2200 16 23 33 47 56 82
2300 16 24 34 49 58 86
2400 17 25 36 51 61 89
2500 18 26 37 53 63 93
2600 19 27 39 55 66 97
2700 19 28 40 57 68 101
2800 20 29 42 59 71 104
2900 21 30 43 62 73 108
3000 21 31 45 64 76 112
3100 22 32 46 66 78 116
3200 23 33 48 68 81 119
3300 24 34 49 70 83 123
3400 24 35 50 72 86 127
3500 25 36 52 74 88 130
3600 26 37 53 76 91 134
3700 26 38 55 79 94 138
3800 27 39 56 81 96 142
3900 28 40 58 83 99 145
4000 29 41 59 85 101 149
4100 29 42 61 87 104 153
4200 30 43 62 89 106 157
4300 31 44 64 91 109 160
4400 31 45 65 93 111 164
4500 32 46 67 96 114 168
4600 33 47 68 98 116 171
4700 34 48 70 100 119 175
4800 34 49 71 102 121 179
4900 35 50 73 104 124 183
5000 36 51 74 106 126 186
5100 36 52 76 108 129 190
5200 37 53 77 110 131 194
5300 38 54 79 113 134 197
5400 39 55 80 115 137 201
5500 39 56 82 117 139 205
5600 40 57 83 119 142 209
5700 41 58 85 121 144 212
5800 41 60 86 123 147 216
5900 42 61 88 125 149 220
6000 43 62 89 127 152 224

F-Body 4.10
RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 4 5 7 10 13 19
600 4 7 9 12 16 23
700 5 8 10 14 18 27
800 6 9 12 15 21 31
900 7 10 13 17 24 35
1000 7 11 15 19 26 39
1100 8 12 16 21 29 43
1200 9 13 18 23 31 46
1300 9 14 19 25 34 50
1400 10 15 21 27 37 54
1500 11 16 22 29 39 58
1600 12 17 24 31 42 62
1700 12 18 25 33 44 66
1800 13 20 27 35 47 70
1900 14 21 28 37 50 73
2000 15 22 30 39 52 77
2100 15 23 31 41 55 81
2200 16 24 33 43 57 85
2300 17 25 34 44 60 89
2400 17 26 36 46 63 93
2500 18 27 37 48 65 97
2600 19 28 39 50 68 100
2700 20 29 40 52 71 104
2800 20 30 42 54 73 108
2900 21 31 43 56 76 112
3000 22 33 45 58 78 116
3100 23 34 46 60 81 120
3200 23 35 48 62 84 124
3300 24 36 49 64 86 128
3400 25 37 51 66 89 131
3500 25 38 52 68 91 135
3600 26 39 54 70 94 139
3700 27 40 55 71 97 143
3800 28 41 56 73 99 147
3900 28 42 58 75 102 151
4000 29 43 59 77 104 155
4100 30 45 61 79 107 158
4200 31 46 62 81 110 162
4300 31 47 64 83 112 166
4400 32 48 65 85 115 170
4500 33 49 67 87 118 174
4600 33 50 68 89 120 178
4700 34 51 70 91 123 182
4800 35 52 71 93 125 185
4900 36 53 73 95 128 189
5000 36 54 74 97 131 193
5100 37 55 76 99 133 197
5200 38 56 77 100 136 201
5300 39 58 79 102 138 205
5400 39 59 80 104 141 209
5500 40 60 82 106 144 213
5600 41 61 83 108 146 216
5700 41 62 85 110 149 220
5800 42 63 86 112 151 224
5900 43 64 88 114 154 228
6000 44 65 89 116 157 232

ricardoa1
07-18-2008, 12:47 PM
It seems that the Fbody with 4.10 reasembles The similar gearing in the first two. To a later M5R2 with 3.08 but top gear is like if it had the stock 2.73s in there.

So it seems that would be the better choice, But is it good for 1/4 mile performance. It seems that shifting into 4th is required for both GM scenarios I ploted below. Do we want to stay in third with a car that traps more then 105 MPH? If so we have to drop the rear end gears a bit and start to look at the GTO gear closer

And this is what it looks like with 3.08s in the GTO

RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear
500 4 6 9 13 15 23
600 5 7 11 15 18 27
700 6 9 13 18 21 32
800 7 10 14 21 24 36
900 8 11 16 23 28 41
1000 9 12 18 26 31 45
1100 10 14 20 28 34 50
1200 10 15 22 31 37 54
1300 11 16 23 33 40 59
1400 12 17 25 36 43 63
1500 13 19 27 39 46 68
1600 14 20 29 41 49 72
1700 15 21 31 44 52 77
1800 16 22 32 46 55 81
1900 16 24 34 49 58 86
2000 17 25 36 51 61 90
2100 18 26 38 54 64 95
2200 19 27 40 57 67 99
2300 20 29 41 59 70 104
2400 21 30 43 62 73 108
2500 22 31 45 64 77 113
2600 23 32 47 67 80 117
2700 23 34 49 69 83 122
2800 24 35 50 72 86 126
2900 25 36 52 75 89 131
3000 26 37 54 77 92 135
3100 27 39 56 80 95 140
3200 28 40 58 82 98 144
3300 29 41 59 85 101 149
3400 29 42 61 87 104 153
3500 30 43 63 90 107 158
3600 31 45 65 93 110 162
3700 32 46 67 95 113 167
3800 33 47 68 98 116 171
3900 34 48 70 100 119 176
4000 35 50 72 103 122 181
4100 36 51 74 105 126 185
4200 36 52 76 108 129 190
4300 37 53 77 111 132 194
4400 38 55 79 113 135 199
4500 39 56 81 116 138 203
4600 40 57 83 118 141 208
4700 41 58 85 121 144 212
4800 42 60 86 123 147 217
4900 42 61 88 126 150 221
5000 43 62 90 129 153 226
5100 44 63 92 131 156 230
5200 45 65 94 134 159 235
5300 46 66 95 136 162 239
5400 47 67 97 139 165 244
5500 48 68 99 141 168 248
5600 48 70 101 144 171 253
5700 49 71 103 147 175 257
5800 50 72 104 149 178 262
5900 51 73 106 152 181 266
6000 52 75 108 154 184 271

ricardoa1
07-18-2008, 02:42 PM
An interesting note while searching for stuff.

The Fbody ratios are shared with the Base Corvette. But the GTO ratios are found in the ZO6. does that make it a better performer? GM puts 3.42s behind the GTO and ZO6 cars.

92bird
07-19-2008, 12:44 AM
'04 Cobra T-56 bolted up to a '95 SC motor:

:D

Jeramie

Thunder95
07-19-2008, 01:00 AM
Ricardoa, I'd be game for a T-56 if it was set up correctly for our aps. I do have a 4.6L though. Shifter placement would have to be perfect, maybe even a little more rear to the car than the 95 SC... and it'd have to be a pretty straight on procedure for that price.

-Joel

getblown
07-19-2008, 11:03 AM
'04 Cobra T-56 bolted up to a '95 SC motor:


Thats cute! NOW PUT IT IN THE CAR!:)

92bird
07-19-2008, 12:19 PM
Thats cute! NOW PUT IT IN THE CAR!

Well, its not going in an SC.. Its going in a Merkur XR4Ti.

seawalkersee
07-19-2008, 02:24 PM
What is the distance from the rear of the engine to the shifter?

Chris

Ghost
07-19-2008, 08:05 PM
That would be my XR4Ti project that Jeramie posted up above.
The distance is 26.5" from the face of the bell to the center of the shifter. This is using an '04 Cobra tranny mounted to a QuickTime RM8031 SFI bellhousing. You can also use the QuickTime RM8030 bell if you're dead set on putting the clutch fork at 9:00 instead of 7:00 as in the Cobra, but you will need to get a different "5.0 retrofit" adapter plate, which is pretty expensive and hard to come by. The shifter can be moved back about 3" using an LT1/LS1 tailshaft housing and the GM shift rail. Both of these can be bought from Six Speeds Inc for about $300. The T56 is very modular, meaning you can mix & match a lot of parts. The Cobra mainshaft is the same 27 spline unit as the GM part, so you do not have to change it. If you go to the larger 30 spline Viper mainshaft you will need to have the tailhousing bored out for the larger Viper bushing.
BTW, a neutral balance 5.0 flywheel will bolt up to the SC crank, so the swap is pretty easy using a mix of factory parts.

getblown
07-19-2008, 09:36 PM
so the swap is pretty easy using a mix of factory parts.

I feel like I should be building another 2.5 TII Shelby Charger using spirit and shadow parts, haha.

Does the tailshaft come out seperate without problem from the main section? I think its the T-45s that the bellhouseing is part of everything and will cause problems if seperated, is this the case?

Ghost
07-20-2008, 07:02 PM
There is no separate tailshaft on the T56. The mainshaft runs the length of the tranny, the back part of the mainshaft *is* the tailshaft.
The bell is not cast as part of the transmission case - take a closer look at the pictures above or go to Tremec's website and download the tranny service guide pdf. In a T56 the bell bolts to the mid (adapter) plate, the tranny case bolts to the other side of the adapter plate and the tailhousing bolts to the main case.

Mike8675309
07-20-2008, 09:13 PM
Here is a comparison of the different gear ratios with rpm points after shifting. Calculations assume torque peak as shown as well as top RPM. This is with a stock tire wheel dimensions and 3.08 gears. If you want to see shift RPM recommended as well I'll do it again. Just takes a while to run the numbers and cut and paste stuff.

I'm thinking the F-body matches up fairly well if you want to keep shift RPM reasonable. where are the MPX cars running out of power? Above 5200? If you think your car will keep making power up to 6k.. then the GTO one looks like a nice option. F-body also looks like it'll hold 3rd for the 1/4 mile based on MPH.

give me peak RPM and torque peak rpm with gears and tires and I can run some different numbers.

Mike8675309
07-22-2008, 11:21 AM
Attached to this post is a spreadsheet you can play with. It shows the MPH in each gear for a given RPM, rear ratio and tire height. You can then change the rpm or tire height or rear gear and see how that will impact the MPH achieved at the rpm.

ricardoa1
07-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Thats a great spreadsheet, the only problem I find is that the final ratio is not individual from the 4 different gear boxes. The FBody ratios seem to be too mild for a 3.08 in comparison to the stock trannys. Not sure if there is a way adding different rear end ratios to each scenario.

So you thoughts are that the FBody is the better choice because the ratios are evenly spaced for the most part. The Fbody trans will be come more abundant then the GTO. The Fbody guys like to upgrade to GTO box due to its improvements, The syncros and Forks are much better in the GTO, among other improvements. Because of this they are rarer and more in demand then the Fbody ones. To me it seems that the FBOdy ones are plenty strong to what our car can give them so Gear ratios are more important to me. then the improvements. If the FBody is the better choice with the right rear end then I would not think twice since they are cheaper and more available then the GTO ones.

Mike8675309
07-22-2008, 03:24 PM
Thats a great spreadsheet, the only problem I find is that the final ratio is not individual from the 4 different gear boxes. The FBody ratios seem to be too mild for a 3.08 in comparison to the stock trannys. Not sure if there is a way adding different rear end ratios to each scenario.



Attached has the rear gear broken out into one for each transmission ratio range.

I feel like I like the F-Body unit just for the longer overdrive. I'd like to do some high speed runs in the future, and that will give me some legs without having to change gears from what I can use on the street.

ricardoa1
07-22-2008, 06:35 PM
Yes, after much calculations and deliberations I think that the, Fbody ratios in front of a 3.73 rear end is the best combination. IMO

With that set up First gear is almost just like an Early M5R2 with 2.73s, and that means a near perfect launch gear. Third and fourth gear is almost like having our stock one with 3.27s witch was very fun in those gears. And if revving the car to 6000rpms it is possible to finish the 1/4mile in third. And last the car will cruise in 6th at 75mph only at 1800RPMs. And that should give good gas mileage. Also torque rating increase with the 2.66 first gear.

Another note is that chevy went back to the 2.66 ratios for the Z06 on the later C6s and CTS-V also stepped down to the 2.66 ratios.

But if you find a GTO box it would be best with 3.55s in the rear end and nothing higher.
D&D also has no problem finding F-body boxes but they have no GTO boxes. So when I do it I think I will go with the Fbody box.

Shooter_Jay
07-22-2008, 08:53 PM
I don't know where these ideas come from. Stock LT1's made over 300ftlbs torque. The transmissions being referred to here might not stand up to 5500rpm clutch dumps, but neither will your axles. I would have no reservations about putting one in my car. They are stronger than an M5R2.

Agreed. My '02 Z28 convertible t56 is still 70mph chirping 3rd with 104,000 miles on it :rock: The t56 is plenty strong. Of course the SC is about 400lbs heavier, but not too bad.

Oh, by the way, driving this car three years and 55k miles...before that, my 94 SC auto for seven years and 114k miles. Ever since my Z, I always figured it'd be killer to do the SC right, and yes, swap in the t56, but damn, leave the LS1 attached, these things rock like you need to experience. An SC would be like BatPimp or something.....

Miller
07-22-2008, 09:01 PM
Batpimp huh.. i like it

ricardoa1
07-23-2008, 12:50 PM
MikeH
Something that I forgot to bring up. You are using the stock flywheel which then you have to use the stock starter for it to work. Will that FordSmallBlock adapter bell accept the 3.8l starter or will you have to rethink and use a 5.0L flywheel and starter. I am not sure if the starters are the similar bolting pattern and only the gear teeth count is different.

getblown
07-23-2008, 01:00 PM
Attached to this post is a spreadsheet you can play with. It shows the MPH in each gear for a given RPM, rear ratio and tire height. You can then change the rpm or tire height or rear gear and see how that will impact the MPH achieved at the rpm.

Its looking like 3.73 FTW.

Micahdogg
10-17-2008, 05:40 PM
Any updates?

talonhead
10-17-2008, 09:56 PM
Well, out of town till spring for work. Reassembly of motor will have to wait until I get back home.
Initial fitup starter seemed to fit, but will check on final assy.

MikeH

Shooter_Jay
10-17-2008, 10:02 PM
Any updates?

update? yeah my z28 'vert t56 has 108k on it and still 70mph chirping third :rock: lol

edit: that's on a stock I believe 3:42 btw

Micahdogg
10-20-2008, 04:58 PM
I thought this picture was interesting of the different length input shafts for T56's.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=148451&d=1222254012

From left to Right: LT1, LS1, Retro, CTS-V

(The CTS-V appears shorter, but it's double-cone synchro base just lowers it's profile)

NEEDaSCbad
09-15-2009, 01:55 PM
Well, out of town till spring for work. Reassembly of motor will have to wait until I get back home.
Initial fitup starter seemed to fit, but will check on final assy.

MikeH

Any update?

talonhead
09-16-2009, 04:27 AM
Hurt my back a few weeks ago. Trying to get my son to help me out this fall, now that his schedule has steadied out. Have to pull the motor out of my auto to transplant into the 6 speed. Install another brace on the trans x-member, and new driveshaft.
Then we shall see what we see.
MikeH

Ryan A Harris
09-27-2009, 03:44 PM
This thread seems to have the most info about this swap. After this weekends trip, I maybe also looking at this swap into my 95 SC. The donor car is a 1996 Z28 Camaro, the owner had a bad accident with the car. Both my brother in law & I are tring to grab some parts off of him for our seperate projects.

talonhead
09-27-2009, 04:01 PM
Ryan, if you can get the trans crossmember, don't know if it can be adapted. The LS1 trans mount sits farther back than a M5R2, and 6th gear eats alot of the depth out of the SC crossmember when modified. I welded an extension for the tailshaft mount (GM unit), now am fabbing up a '3rd leg' for the crossmember and a mounting pad that will be welded to the floor pan. I still think one of the most critical points is input shaft alignment, slave and clutch shimming. I am using a McLeod LS1/Ford bellhousing) adapter, with Ford oem slave (reamed out to slip over GM input shaft).
Good Luck, and keep us posted.
MikeH

Ryan A Harris
09-27-2009, 07:03 PM
I would be able to get the stock cross member from the Camaro, but I do have the ability to make up almost anything. I am a machinist by trade & work in a custom fabrication shop. With this posts info, I now have a good idea of what extra parts are needed aside from the transmission. I would want to run the gears I have now, 3.27's. I wonder how many 94 or 95's have gone this route? I plan on, if I do go threw with this, to document as much as possible with photos & if possible with my video camera. I'll also keep drawings on the custom parts, so they could made up again ,for the next guys.......;)

XxSlowpokexX
09-28-2009, 12:32 PM
Ryan,

Having the custom parts available for this swap from someone would be a God send. I been throwing this about for years but I know if I start and it doesnt go smnooth it could be years till I finish...And I like driving my SC to much to wish it a slow and painfull death like that. The transmission is one of the last things I feel my SC needs to be almost perfect for me

Please go for it!

Damon

talonhead
03-07-2010, 11:50 PM
It's getting warm during the day now. Time to clean the garage out and find my welders. Need to get the x-member fabbed so I can pull the engine/trans to do the setup and hook up the other engine.
Also going to pull the other pumpkin (auto 3.27's) might put it in after I get a road test with the 2.73.


Have a good line on a pair of '85 460's for the other car.
Still need to down-load the camera with progress pics.

MikeH

XxSlowpokexX
03-08-2010, 12:27 AM
Still waiting!

talonhead
03-08-2010, 04:53 AM
here are some shifter shots (original 5 spd handle)

qc89SC
03-08-2010, 08:44 PM
if you use a fbody t56 would it be simple to convert to cable clutch???

talonhead
03-08-2010, 09:03 PM
The trans is an LS1 configured t56 from a 2000 Camaro. The SC already has hydraulic clutch setup. More dependable than a cable (I've heard my buddies with cable clutches moan on and on about cables and quadrant levers.)

The auto to stick conversion that I might do if I can scrape up the $$ for another t56 will be behind a BBF. I already have the pedal set and bell adapter. But ......that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.
MikeH

Jason Wild
03-09-2010, 01:54 PM
anyone have any tips on using a t56 from a viper i know the input shaft needs to be changed.

talonhead
03-09-2010, 09:08 PM
When going with the T-56 the differences are:
Input shaft: spline #, shaft length, and pilot size
Clutch adapter: aftermarket (flat plate), Ford, GM LT1/LS1/Vette, Dodge
Body: mech or electronic speedo drive
Tailshaft: spline#, housing type(GM LT/LS shifter mount is all the way back)
Engine (Bell) adapter:Factory or aftermarket.
Clutch throw-out type:cable/lever, (external) hyd/lever, hyd push(concentric slave)

Hope this helps,
MikeH

Wally88
03-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Looks like the GTO T-56 would be a good canidate. The shifter is positioned farther back compared to the f-body trans.

Looks good so far!
Jesse

Wally88
03-09-2010, 11:17 PM
http://www.southernperformancesystems.com/sitebuilder/images/TREMAC_DIMS-968x638.jpg

talonhead
03-12-2010, 04:24 PM
Wally88,
Great pic. I think the GTO extension would put it waaay to far back. Right now, mine is only an inch~ forward of stock.
MikeH

Wally88
03-14-2010, 05:48 PM
Wally88,
Great pic. I think the GTO extension would put it waaay to far back. Right now, mine is only an inch~ forward of stock.
MikeH

I couldn't tell from the picture you had posted. I would think a bent handle would do the trick then.

Carry on! LOL!

Jesse

talonhead
03-14-2010, 09:36 PM
was looking at depth of pilot shaft into crank hub looks like I could use a
0.025-0.375" spacer. also looking for a pilot bearing that will work.
weather is pretty crappy....high wind and rain, flooding out my garage. Have to wait til it blows over.

talonhead
03-19-2010, 06:18 PM
was looking at custom drive shaft info on-line. Came up with a TH350 slip yoke which is available in several series 10, 30,& 50 which match up with 1310,1330, 1350 series U-joints. And to mate up with the Ford diff flange yoke there are 2 bolt sizes: small 2.5"x2.5" for 7.5" and 8.8" diff's and large 3"x 3" for 8.8" diff's.
The one on my SC is the small bolt pattern which uses a 1310 u-joint.
QUESTION? Can the small pattern diff flange be swapped for the large pattern on our cars? I was looking at going with the 1350 series slip yoke and u-joint in front and upgrade to the large pattern and 1350 series in the rear so u-joint sizes are the same.
Haven't done any diff work yet. Can you just take the pinon nut off, pull the flange of and install a new one? Or is it more involved?
MikeH

DLF
03-19-2010, 06:27 PM
QUESTION? Can the small pattern diff flange be swapped for the large pattern on our cars? I was looking at going with the 1350 series slip yoke and u-joint in front and upgrade to the large pattern and 1350 series in the rear so u-joint sizes are the same.
Haven't done any diff work yet. Can you just take the pinon nut off, pull the flange of and install a new one? Or is it more involved?
MikeH

Yes, you can just swap the stock pinion flange for the larger one.

talonhead
03-19-2010, 06:28 PM
Found specs for the LS1 T56 pilot brg, and compared them to the M5R2 pilot brg.

Ford: ID 0.672" OD 1.378" width 0.733"
LS1: ID 0.600" OD 1.096" width 0.720"

I figure I can get a sleeve made with the Ford OD and the ID to match the LS1 OD.

As it looks now, I will need a spacer for the trans to set correct pilot depth as mentioned in previous post. This depth will be determined by pilot shaft and brg. Once this is set then determine slave shim height.

MikeH

seawalkersee
03-20-2010, 11:12 AM
Why not use the bushing for the Ford and just have the ID cut to match the LS or mill the shaft?

That way, you can use the Ford piece and it would probably be cheaper.

SWS

DLF
03-20-2010, 06:59 PM
I'd check the pilot bushing used in the 5.0 that fits the T-56. It might fit the SC crankshaft. p/n Ford Racing M-7600-A.

Never mind, it's for a .669 input shaft diameter.....

talonhead
03-23-2010, 05:56 PM
Local marine machine shop is going to hook me up with a hard bronze sleeve so I can use the GM pilot. Might have him make up a few to have as spares or whatever.
MikeH

talonhead
03-23-2010, 08:14 PM
Just ordered one of these to start collecting all the hook-up stuff. when I order the driveshaft I'll spec the heavy duty 1350 hardware.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-4851-B/10002/-1?parentProductId=761040
MikeH

talonhead
04-09-2010, 08:16 PM
Sleeve should be done by tues (big money boat parts repair is where he makes his $$) We'll see how it fits. Then we'll see how much of a spacer I need to keep the splines out of it.
Disassembley of auto car is going slow, as is cleaning garage. Which dosen't get me any closer to getting the x-mem completed.
Going to look at a 429 tomorrow.
MikeH

talonhead
04-15-2010, 11:20 PM
picked up pilot brg sleeve, see if it will fit this weekend. Picked up 429, it's already torn down. Trying to dig out the welders to get back to work on fitting x-mem for t56. Parts car is jacked up to disconnect all the undercarrage stuff, for pulling the engine for transfer into the manual car.
Have a good weekend all.
MikeH

rjgraul
08-01-2010, 05:09 PM
picked up pilot brg sleeve, see if it will fit this weekend. Picked up 429, it's already torn down. Trying to dig out the welders to get back to work on fitting x-mem for t56. Parts car is jacked up to disconnect all the undercarrage stuff, for pulling the engine for transfer into the manual car.
Have a good weekend all.
MikeH

How is this project going?

talonhead
08-03-2010, 09:34 PM
Work has been sorta on hold. Issues with Dr.s. Having to replace the whole front of the garage due to long-term water damage/rot (caused by short-cuts taken by builder).
Trying to keep truck running (may have to pull engine, and figure if it's just the top end or whole thing. sucks oil--but dosen't smoke. recovery tank lost 1-1/2" in a week. Now has a ticking sound (might be a valve) between cyl 3&4. just did $700 in rear brakes. Still need (in the near future) to do the front brakes again, this time will require new rotors.
My money trip to VA got pushed back/postphoned.

The only real good thing that happened this summer---my kid got a good paying job! A cook for a ferry company over in New London, CT (serves Long Island, and The Sound area. He seems to really like it, and gets along with the crews on all the ferrys. Might even get to work the winter through.

If things get calmed down, I'm gonna lock myself in the garage to get 'her' finished!
Later all!
MikeH

90turbo1
08-06-2010, 02:31 AM
im interested in a list of complete parts that works as I have pondered this swap since I layed eyes on my thunderbird with 5 speed.

talonhead
08-07-2010, 12:38 AM
Most of the parts are listed in this thread (with pics)
When I get mine finished up, I have been asked for a write up on it (don't wait up for it).
Search function is a wonderful tool.
If you are going to do it yourself, fantastic! Good luck.
(It ain't easy!)
MikeH

90turbo1
08-07-2010, 03:55 AM
Most of the parts are listed in this thread (with pics)
When I get mine finished up, I have been asked for a write up on it (don't wait up for it).
Search function is a wonderful tool.
If you are going to do it yourself, fantastic! Good luck.
(It ain't easy!)
MikeH

thats what I was waiting for a write up with all correct info so a person could go thumb through catalog, craigslist ect and come up with parts needed then just do it.

the post is great and lets me know what I need to start searching for at liest.

i also saw in a mustang magazine that tremec makes a t-56 for a 5.0 mustang application wouldnt that be an easier way to go? just a though I have to find the add again.

talonhead
08-07-2010, 06:40 PM
To get the shifter in the correct spot you need the LS1 tailshaft/housing.
Otherwise the shifter is in the dash.
MikeH

90turbo1
08-07-2010, 07:04 PM
To get the shifter in the correct spot you need the LS1 tailshaft/housing.
Otherwise the shifter is in the dash.
MikeH

well scrap that idea....

talonhead
10-05-2010, 03:17 AM
Well, finally crawled back under the old gal. Trying to get the new crossmember designed.

Quick QUES.. Someone with a 5 Speed, can you measure output shaft center to inside of frame rails left/right. and post them or pm them to me? Thanks.

Making the crossmember (2) bolts per side, sliding the x-mem to the rear (after cutting off the ends and making the ends longer with (2) bolt holes. I have some thick rubber that I plan to use in place of the obsolete isolators. I come up with some 2" shallow "u" channel that will go between the rubber and bolts.
Gonna have to slot the center. Looks like I'll get a little more rearward distance on the shifter, due to obtaining proper pilot depth. (This is a +)
Need to finish unbolting the pass. seat to pull it and the carpet for weld prep.
MikeH

talonhead
10-08-2010, 02:24 AM
Finished pulling interior in prep to clean and weld mods to trans x-mem mounts. WOW, there is a lot of crap under the carpet!
Also found some issues causes by mice that bear looking at before re-assembly.
MikeH

talonhead
10-24-2010, 10:31 PM
Should be up and welding the frame mods for crossmember this week. Has been a ~~~~ restoring the 220V subpanel and outlets for my welders. Also added some additional lighting fixtures (3 out of 4 8' flouresent strip fixtures installed) Now I can see what the heck is going on.

Heated up the dampening crap on the floor with a heat gun and scraped it off to prep for welding, both mounting pad extensions are ready for tack and fit.
Undercoating is a real ~~~~ to get off!...scrape with heat, wire brush on drill, clean brush with brake cleaner, repeat, then spray and wipe with brake cleaner. WHAT A MESS! But, now the coating is off....... and so is the paint.
Was looking at how dinged the subframe rails are from jacking and hoisting. Might weld some heavy-duty pads in to prevent more damage.
Later. MikeH

CMac89
10-30-2010, 06:37 PM
What is the McLeod part number of bellhousing that you have? The aftermarket bellhousings aren't as thick as the castings, so that's probably why the input shaft seems too long. This is an F-Body T-56, right? Do you know exactly how much shorter the input shaft needs to be?

I found some Quick Time bellhousings for the 289 through 351W/C, but they all use the cut-outs for a cable clutch. I'll have to decide between hydraulic or cable clutch.

RM-6050
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/RM-6050.swf

RM-8030
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/RM-8030.swf

RM-8031
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/RM-8031.swf

talonhead
10-30-2010, 10:40 PM
What is the McLeod part number of bellhousing that you have? The aftermarket bellhousings aren't as thick as the castings, so that's probably why the input shaft seems too long. This is an F-Body T-56, right? Do you know exactly how much shorter the input shaft needs to be?

I found some Quick Time bellhousings for the 289 through 351W/C, but they all use the cut-outs for a cable clutch. I'll have to decide between hydraulic or cable clutch.

RM-6050
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/RM-6050.swf

RM-8030
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/RM-8030.swf

RM-8031
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/RM-8031.swf

Here is list from McLeod:
Part No. /Application /Price /Install
8750-07 Borg Waner 1993-1997 ; T-56 from LT1 Camaro/Firebird. Will need to change front Intermediate plate for Mech Link $530.00

8750-09 Borg Warner 1964-1986 ; Mopar 4 Speed $942.00

8750-06 Borg Warner 1998-2001 ; T-56 from LS1 Camaro/Firebird. Will need to change front Intermediate plate for Mech Link. $530.00
8750-00 Borg Warner 2000-2004 ; T-56, 2000 Cobra R, 2003-04 Cobra $530.00

8750-11 Lenco 2000-2010 ; 3 & 4 Speed 5 Bolt. 6.5" Deep Bellhousing $1000.00

8750-10 New Process 1965-1975 ; NP435 $1000.00

8750-08 Tremec 1992-2010 ; T-56 from Viper $670.00
As my SC was a manual to start with AND I like a stick, I'm using my original parts for hyd throw-out.
MikeH
ps all the p/n's are in this thread that I have.

talonhead
10-30-2010, 10:46 PM
Finally got my 220v drop for welders fnished today. What a ROYAL ~~~~ 6ga wire is to hook up in a box!
Now to tack in the mount mod plates, and move on to final fit.

birdlessmuz
11-01-2010, 05:47 PM
what benefit would a t-5 give to sc's

fturner
11-01-2010, 07:14 PM
what benefit would a t-5 give to sc's

Go with a stock t5 and the benefit is getting to watch how a t5 reacts to the torque the SC motor puts out..... its kinda akin to hearing "OH CRAP!"

Fraser

XxSlowpokexX
11-02-2010, 12:39 AM
not worth the hassle for a t5 regardless..t56 all the way

Mike Puckett
11-02-2010, 08:39 AM
what benefit would a t-5 give to sc

Something else to rebuild every 6 months.:D

CMac89
11-02-2010, 10:39 AM
You can buy aftermarket T-5's that are plenty reliable. The 5.0 uses the same crank flange and bellhousing, so the input shaft is figured out. The only problem would be shifter location, really. Little headaches, there.

The T-56 is the headache, but it's a better design than the T-5. That's why I want a T-56.

talonhead
11-03-2010, 09:13 PM
.......that the price for a re-man has gone through the roof! I've been looking for a decent used one, but they want more than I paid for my reman w/warrenty! (Hey, I need another for my BBF Bird project!:)
MikeH

talonhead
11-09-2010, 09:41 PM
Got the driver's side x-mem mounting pad extension welded in today, after a few false starts with welding eqpt.--- welding hood battery DOA, finally found one at the 2nd Radio Shack I went to, No gas flow through MIG gun hose---disassemble/blow out/reassemble&*%)*&%ing wires to trigger pull out of mini spade connectors-go to welder repair shop at work and beg some new ones and install. Rough week and it's only Tues.! Thank God that Thurs. is a holiday!
Now if I can just keep from burning more holes in the floor pan (gotta remember--THAT STUFF's THIN! not to mention galvenized---YUK!
Glad I got a little smarter with age and wear a respirator now
MikeH

talonhead
11-12-2010, 09:31 PM
The hunting report...Stayed up all night after work instead of napping then feeling like crap when I got up to go tree-rat hunting on Thur. Only got 1 rat, but saw a 4 and a 6 point deer both with good sized bodies.
o.k..... on the mod report.. napped for 3 hrs, then fit and welded the pass side x-mem extension (did I say that I hate welding on galvanized crap?)! Spatter took out both bulbs in my big portable flouresent light. Almost forgot to scrape the rubber crap on inside of floorboard...just a little smoke from a tack weld. (But if you're blind and can't trip over extinguisher in my garage.....you're outside!:D) I figure, since I do a lot of hot work in my garage (which is under my house) need to be able to combat that kind of casulty quickly. Better to have an extinguisher or 3 and not need them, than to need them and not have one.
Still need to clean up the welds, drill bolt holes, check for clip-nut fitment (may have to cut/weld floor pan above for clearence). When all welding is done, prep for paint. I plan on using an etching primer, and then paint and undercoat to protect where the galvanizing was damaged from grinding/welding.
This modification probaly could be done differently, but this how I am doing it. If someone has a better way.....Post It!
Will post more pics when I get more done,
MikeH

seawalkersee
11-18-2010, 05:42 AM
You have any pix of this yet? I kinda wanna see it too...

SWS

talonhead
11-18-2010, 02:26 PM
Blew a plug out of the head in my truck last night, so that drops me down to one vehicle (out of 4) THIS SUX! Just as winter is coming and my garage is full!
MikeH

talonhead
11-20-2010, 11:16 PM
Made some progress.45836

45837

45838

45839

Using an auto x-mem, the exhaust hanger w/adapter plate. The blue piece hanging down is marked in in. and cm. to measure output shaft center above x-mem (the m5r2 is just under 6") plus the x-mem to pad distance to come up with original height in relationship to the IRS pinion center.
MikeH

seawalkersee
11-22-2010, 12:59 AM
Whats up with the hole in the floor in the first pic?

SWS

XxSlowpokexX
11-22-2010, 07:56 PM
Thats the factory shofter location? If so perfect!

talonhead
11-22-2010, 08:39 PM
Whats up with the hole in the floor in the first pic?

SWS

The not round one is part of the slot for the clip nut, I'm going to fill part of that in. The ends are going to be trimmed and welded to the 2-bolt end plates (not shown).

QUOTE Slowpoke: Thats the factory shifter location? If so perfect!--------------------
No, it's about an inch forward of factory position. In Neutral it is up against the forward edge of the shifter box.
MikeH

talonhead
12-13-2010, 07:58 PM
Fit-up is just about done. Need to de-rust the ends of the x-member where the paint lifted. When thats done, mask and prime. Then weld and prime/paint the xmem. Fill weld, grind and prime/paint inside/outside of floor pans and mounts.
I only get a few hours a week to work on her, so it's a little slow going.
MikeH

talonhead
12-29-2010, 01:13 AM
Latest pics.

winterwinter
12-29-2010, 01:19 AM
looks cool stuff.

talonhead
01-02-2011, 05:24 AM
Well, got the x-member welded,primed, painted and installed using 3 old bolts and isolators (misplaced a bolt). Had to go out in the melting snow, crawl under parts car to get the 2 slip-nuts(?) off the mounting pads and install them on the other car. Ordered 2 sets of isolators from Bill at SCP.
Now I can pull the engine block and trans for clutch fit.
MikeH

XxSlowpokexX
01-02-2011, 10:43 AM
you modified a stang cross member?

talonhead
01-03-2011, 10:36 PM
you modified a stang cross member?

It was an auto trans crossmember out of my parts car. The original one from the 5 spd car was modded, but didn't work out. Cut off the ends and welded the two hole flanges on the ends. Welded in mounting pad extensions and Viola, six speed fix!
Block and trans are out for clutch fit-up.
MikeH

kneedragger25
01-05-2011, 12:59 AM
I may be a little late for the conversation but I would like to add my .02. Im running a stock T-5 out of an 88 stang Gt and am running it behind a 351C 5.8l. Had no issues yet but also dont dump the clutch At high RPMS. Im well over the 300torque rating and again no issues yet . so If the bell housing fits a T-5 would work. If it will fit behind my 351 beast.

talonhead
01-05-2011, 07:31 PM
:confused:
I may be a little late for the conversation but I would like to add my .02. Im running a stock T-5 out of an 88 stang Gt and am running it behind a 351C 5.8l. Had no issues yet but also dont dump the clutch At high RPMS. Im well over the 300torque rating and again no issues yet . so If the bell housing fits a T-5 would work. If it will fit behind my 351 beast.

Are you asking if the t56 would work with a t-5 bellhousing? If so, no.
you would need the T56 bell-adapter (and that is specific as to which clutch adapter-LS, viper, mustang or aftermarket) that is fitted to trans case.
If your ? is about something else, please clarify.
MikeH

talonhead
01-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Got home from work last night feeling just kinda ...blah.. Went to the garage with absoulutly nothing in mind. Sat around for a little while, then kickred on the gas heater. Then pulled out the oxy/acet torch, the mig welder, some pipe and rebar scrap sitting in a bucket(this is about 2330). At about 0430 I looked at my watch as I was sitting in a spare bucket seat looking at the creation in the middle of the garage and went h*ly crap!!!
How time flies when the hands are busy.
Fabbed up a cradle out of all the junk to hold the trans verticle w/tailshaft down. Hoisted the block/crank/plate assy up and positioned on the trans.
Now I know why McLeod puts the 3/8" brass pilot bushing into this conversion kit---the splines are up in the crank hub where the pilot brg would normally be!
Took a carpenter crayon on a stick, shoved it in through the port in the bellhousing adapter to mark the input shaft depth. I think I am going to use a spacer ring between the belladapter and the trans to move the pilot to proper depth (side effect--shifter moves back!) Will need thick shim under the slave also. But this will alow the use of a pilot brg.
Took pics, haven't down-loaded them yet (I'm eating lunch @ work).
Received the 2 sets of isolators from Bill at SCP (ordered them last week) looks like they will do the job.
Take care all,
MikeH

talonhead
01-08-2011, 03:36 AM
Starting fit-up of trans:

talonhead
01-08-2011, 03:39 AM
here's one more

CMac89
01-09-2011, 01:48 AM
I talked to Texas Drivetrain Performance about this and they said that the LT1 transmission had a shorter input shaft, but there wasn't anything in between with the correct spline count. He can make input shafts, too. He also carries 3/8" spacers and can make any spacer. You can just shim the bellhousing to transmission, that way you won't need to use longer dowels in the block.

http://www.texasdrivetrainperformance.com/t56.html

jludorf
01-09-2011, 03:14 AM
The bore in the crank is recessed beyond the stock pilot bearing location so I machined the pilot bushing so it would recess further into the opening. If I measured correctly the clutch should still have sufficient room to slid on the splines without issue. While my engine is being rebuilt and the new supercharger is being installed I asked the shop to install my transmission. I hope to find out soon if everything I sent will work out fine.We are using an Lt1 with LS1 input shaft, adjustable slave cylinder with a dual disc clutch from macleod.

John

talonhead
01-09-2011, 01:15 PM
The mcleod kit came with a thin pilot bushing instead of a bearing, I belive due to the length of the LS1 input shaft.
I will use a spacer between the trans and bell to decrease pilot depth and move shifter rearward.
But right now I must go plow my driveway as the predicted 1-3" was about 8" over fri/sat nights.
Attached is a pic of the pilot bushing that came with the kit next to an SC pilot brg
MikeH

talonhead
01-28-2011, 07:44 PM
If I can dig my way out of this snow drift, I'll make my way over to my machinist buddy (if he has also dug his way out) to get some pilot bearing sleaves made and spacer rings and slave cyl. shims planned out.

Take my truck into the dealer for spark plug thread repair.
Take the H2 into the GM dealer collision center to get the rear bumper and misc. replaced. (87 chebby celebrity drove under the spare all the way to the diff. dented the bumper, but his front end looked like an earth mover plowed into it!! :).........


........And shovel/plow some more snow!

Have a safe weekend all,
MikeH

talonhead
03-16-2011, 07:52 PM
Well, snows gone. Was able to get to town early enough on way to work to drop off my 5spd pilot brg, the 6spd pilot brg, and the sleeve adapter that didn't work at my friendly local machinist to have a new adapter madeWho just got loaded down with everybodies boat work now that the snow is gone (i.e. They can see their boat now, and remembered that it needs work before it goes in the water!)
Trying to borrow a friends plasma cutter to cut spacer ring plates for
"bellhousing".
Ran Across an note somewhere that the engine side of flywheel needs to be milled down to clear the thicker motor plate. We'll see how it fits first as machine work costs more now (just like everything else).
MikeH

talonhead
04-12-2011, 01:59 AM
I have had some inquiries on slave setup on my t56. Had to dig through all my parts. The SC slave is clocked correctly on the GM front plate and lines up with the notches in the plate. The Hyd line fits wth no interference. I am waiting on pilot brg adapter sleeve and spacer plates to finish assy.
MikeH

talonhead
04-12-2011, 02:04 AM
here are some more pics.
Hyd line hook up through bell adapter, McLeod clutch both sides, and a shot of the slave next to front plate showing bolt holes /clocking.
Hope these help.
MikeH

talonhead
05-07-2011, 01:54 AM
still waiting on machinist to provide parts.'
MikeH

talonhead
05-11-2011, 10:26 PM
here are some more pics.
Hyd line hook up through bell adapter, McLeod clutch both sides, and a shot of the slave next to front plate showing bolt holes /clocking.
Hope these help. http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47942&d=1302588091
MikeH

the pic shows the slave hook-up using the original hose and fittings. With the oed Q-D fitting it's not hard to get the hose off the slave. Besides, the bellhousing comes off this trans!
MikeH

talonhead
05-11-2011, 10:47 PM
Anyone have pics and part numbers for a Viper T56? I saw a pic that looked like mine, but stated that it was a Viper unit. The slave was clocked like mine also. I'd like to see side-by-side views of the front plates.
MikeH

talonhead
05-12-2011, 06:15 PM
:eek: I did a google search for the p/n's for T56 Case and front plate. Hit on some PDF docs that show exploded diagrams and parts lists. One for the Camaro and one for the Viper.
My case pieces are embossed BORG WARNER not TREMEC.
The Viper front plate is listed as "Retrofit" unit on the Camaro.
I have not checked the p/n for the tailshaft housing yet. It was late and I didn't print them out. I did save them to my 'puter.


Maybe it'll have a little more BITE than it used to......
MikeH

talonhead
05-13-2011, 01:28 AM
...and it's a GM configuration (but NOT a retrofit #).
So, I guess that might be a data point for future swappers. Use the Viper/Retrofit front plate and the Viper slave if using a larger input shaft. If using a ford 'sized' input shaft then the SC slave can be used.
If going custo: Viper front plate (uses Viper slave).
Viper sized i/p shaft (dia. and spline) LS1 length and Ford dia. pilot.
This way, you get the strength from the Viper, the length (to use a spacer and get the shifter nearer to oem position) from the LS1, and the Ford dia. pilot to use the Ford pilot bearing.
MikeH

talonhead
05-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Sent an email to them late last night and had an anwer late this a.m. about informaton on McLeod spacer rings for the T56.
Derek, replied that the following sizes were availabe-the spacers come in .250", .500", .750" and 1.1" thickness. They come in 7 O'clock & 9 O'clock fork hole openings.
I replied that I was interested in the .25" amd the .5" spacers.
He replied in just a couple of hours--"The .250 Spacer is $119, and the .500 Spacer is $149. Shipping is free. Both are in stock and can ship today. Let me know."

These folks seem to be on top of things, and really quick to answer.
I think that my next email to them will be to order one.
MikeH

talonhead
05-16-2011, 07:23 PM
Well, started to fab up some 1/2" spacer inserts to check pilot depth.
The 1/4" ones I had in are not quite enough. I took the bushing supplied with the kit and drilled the pilot hole out to the next size up just for ease. Inserted the bushing into the crank; just above the deck, and set the engine back on the trans. The end of the splined shaft where it is cut down for the pilot was up against the bushing. So, I can push the bushing/bearing down further in the hole---or, space the trans a little further to the rear. More to the rear gets the shifter closer to the correct position. I can have the pilot bearing sleeve made a little longer to make it "extended" and install the 1/2" spacer plate. Then check depth. If o.k., set up the clutch and slave (slave may need spacer on one end or the other)
As it's supposed to rain most of this week, I ain't doing any outside work.
So I can work on trans wiring mods, pull the replacement engine off the rack and start prepping it to go in, and pull the BBF off the shelf, swap the bell adapters out and check pilot depth for the BBF before I hook the SC engine up for install.
MikeH

talonhead
05-18-2011, 04:13 AM
I finished my temp 1/2" spacers and put it all together. So, it looks like a 1/2" ring spacer to get the pilot depth right.
Also set up the spare clutch pedal on the trans stand. Have to get a brake line to run from the master to the slave so I can set the slave height.
Here are some pics of the pilot and pedal setup.

talonhead
05-22-2011, 04:31 PM
Well managed to cobble together enough fittings, get the reservoir raised up, and the assy. bled. Just have to pull the block up and install the clutch assy. on the flywheel, and hook the hyd line to slave and bolt it down.
Then break out the bell housing bolt kit and fasten it all together and see how much shimming will be needed to make it work correctly.
Ordered the 0.50" scalloped spacer plate (no fork hole)#8703-02 and two longer replacement pins.

www.mcleodracingdealer.com/mcleod_pricesheet.pdf
This is a .pdf (80 some-odd pages) of part #'s and manf. prices. This stuff is not available anylonger at McLeod Racing since they reworked their site. Several performance websites carry them, prices vary.

Think I am going to work on my write-up some more as there is no work load today.
MikeH

talonhead
05-23-2011, 10:47 PM
Went down to the garage to work the clutch set-up. The darn slave seal blew and it puked fluid all over the slave and trans mid-plate. What a mess!
Now that I have to replace the slave, I ordered a Viper unit. That ways there is nothing to modify, throat is large enough to take the LS1 input shaft, and bolts are clocked correctly for fords.
Had to get a new set of pressure plate bolts. Missing one flywheel bolt, gonna vacuum the garage and use a magnet and screen to see if it got sucked up.
Need a few dry days to empty the place and clean up, install another 8' light strip, put up some cabinets and shelves, paint, then put it all back in some sort of organized mayhem.
MikeH

Shooter_Jay
05-23-2011, 11:22 PM
That's gonna be sweet.

I always loved my SC, and I love my t56 in my z28, I've been beating on it for 100k miles myself for a total of 150k and it had a fresh clutch when I baught the car, so your setup will surely be super durable. Enjoy it. I must have chirped 2nd 300 times minimum seriously hahaha

getblown
05-24-2011, 07:13 PM
So where are we at?!? Because you know when you figure this out, I'm going to steal it and give you credit while I drive my 6spd too. lol

talonhead
05-25-2011, 07:34 PM
GETBLOWN:So where are we at?!? Because you know when you figure this out, I'm going to steal it and give you credit while I drive my 6spd too. lol
I'm cool with that. I had my wife proof-read my write-up, Waiting on the marked up copy, so I can fix it. It won't be done until the car is back on the road.

Where are we?..........Waiting on parts. Braided Russell's hydraulic line, McLeod 1/2" spacer, longer locator pins and Viper slave are on order/enroute.
So, while I wait. I am working on getting the interior cleaned out and wiring runs inspected for rodent damage. Cleaning out the garage to find various parts that have been misplaced (1 flywheel bolt). Look for the sheet of paper that has the bolt map for the bell-housing. Work on GT PBR swap for front brakes.
Once I get the garage straightened out, I can pull the engine off the rack and get it cleaned up and ready for install.
MikeH

talonhead
05-25-2011, 08:30 PM
So where are we at?!? Because you know when you figure this out, I'm going to steal it and give you credit while I drive my 6spd too. lol

Start getting your parts together!
The hard part is done. Now, it's just the piddly-a$$ crap left.
Use an SBF/LS1 T56 bellhousing kit.
For the trans: Probably best to order it from a remanufacturer or custom house. unless you can pick one up at a cheap price and have it rebuilt.
It needs an LS1 tailshaft extension housing (if you need a HD unit it will cost to have it modded).
Mid-plate LS1 or Viper (use appropriate slave and throw-out brg.).
1/2" spacer ring (If using the McLeod bell-housing kit, use either "no fork" or "9 o'clock fork hole".
I can't stand the oem LS1 shifter and knob(it's too long, and looks like crap) I got a Hurst shifter and re-used my 5 speed handle/knob.
If your car is an auto, then you will need a new brake & clutch pedal set. Also, a master cyl, and modify the neutral safety start circuit. Oh yeah, a new hyd hose and reservoir.
A GM pilot brg (sleeved to fit ford pilot hole)
Some sort of speed signal changer.
A new driveshaft.
Wiring pig tails to splice into your harness.
new clutch and pressure plate.
A trans mounting pad.
And new isolators (2 sets)
If an auto, manual trans flywheel bolts (6)
Pressure plate bolts (6)
There's your money...

Now comes the work.......
Then you need to modify your cross-member and/or floor pan for a good mount. May need to cut the tunnel also.
MikeH

talonhead
05-26-2011, 06:43 PM
Got the new slave, still waiting on the spacer and pins. Was working the pressure plate and think I need to shim it to get full release (McLeod says their clutch disks are .030+ thicker than stock. Pedal travel and slave movement look good. Since I didn't get picked up for O-T this weekend, I'll have time to work on the car.
MikeH

talonhead
06-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Got a notice in the mail today that my spacer ring and extended dowel pins are backordered :(
Working on clutch disengagement. Still drags a little. Could be an issue of needing to shim the pressure plate (it's a McLeod unit and they say that their's are about 0.030+ thicker than oem), or need to shim the slave a little.
I have seen crank spacers for shimming the flywheel, that may be easier than shimming the slave.
The Viper slave fits much better than the modified SC one. The bleed fitting is much longer and actually sticks out of the bell a little. The quick-disconnect is Ford compatible and is a little longer also.

It seems that between the wife and the kid digging through the 'cave' for books and movies, that the pig-tails for modifing the harness have been shuffled/moved. So I have to go on the hunt for them.
While I'm at it, I guess I should dig out the GT PBR's and brake pads and install them.
MikeH

seawalkersee
06-05-2011, 12:35 AM
So, whats the damage so far?

SWS

talonhead
06-05-2011, 06:00 PM
So, whats the damage so far?

SWS

So far about $3500.00. That's without driveshaft, not counting my labor, wire, gas, abrasives, cutting blades or other misc. parts used.
Working on a break-down of p/n's, list prices (or specific if I can find reciepts). This will be included in the write-up I am working on.
MikeH

seawalkersee
06-05-2011, 09:46 PM
I was wondering because I have see some sort of kit on the powerblock that is supposed to have all the stuff needed for a swap. I can only assume the prices are for like a mustang or a chevy...I will do some searching to see if I can find it but I bet money you are about half the cost of what it will be.

SWS

talonhead
06-05-2011, 11:42 PM
Just found this place http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/6_speed_prices.html they say they can custom make pilot bearings ($40)

SWS- If you need a new pressure plate, add a few $100. Add my time to do all the metal fit up and welding for the floor pads and crossmember. The price of transmissions has gone up, I got mine a while back.
...................Still waiting on parts....................................
MikeH

XxSlowpokexX
06-06-2011, 09:41 AM
alway sshim the slave not flywheel

talonhead
06-07-2011, 07:00 PM
....that my scallop spacer and extended dowel pins has finally shipped!
Now if I can get off this odd-ball 12 hr shift, I might be able to get something done.
MikeH

talonhead
06-08-2011, 06:13 PM
Brown truck brought pretty shiny parts today. Took pics, will post when I get home. Spacer ring and pins. Also took pics of pilot and sleeves, will post same time as above. Now begins the tear-down (again).

Slowpoke- I was looking at having to shim the flywheel to clearance the engine side of flywheel for the thicker motorplate (if needed) they come in 0.025" and 0.050" thickness'.
MikeH

talonhead
06-09-2011, 06:05 AM
Well here they are, the GM pilot grouped wth the new sleeves (I had 2 made) and the oem SC pilot.
And the McLeod Scalloped 0.500" spacer ring with long dowel pins..
MikeH

CMac89
06-09-2011, 09:33 AM
How much did that spacer plate cost?

talonhead
06-10-2011, 02:48 AM
How much did that spacer plate cost?

About $185 w/ S&H from Summit (That's also includes longer dowel pins (x2)

New clutch master cylinder came this a.m. from Rock Auto.
I think I have most of the parts to finish this up.......
If I can get some wrench time!
Later MikeH

talonhead
06-20-2011, 12:07 AM
Well, took it apart today. Replaced the pins, didn't need the real long ones as it turned out. The original ones were 3/4" long. I have attached pic with pin in place, and one of the hyd qwick-disconnects (ford/viper)
MikeH

talonhead
06-22-2011, 07:05 PM
Seems that I can't get enough oomph out of my slave to get complete disengagement. I am working on how much spacing is needed. Found a company that does T56 kits (for GM products) ATS (American Touring Specialties) at www.t56kit.com, that makes and packages an LS1 slave spacer in some of their kits. I e-mailed them, asking if they would sell them seperately and what the price would be.
Since I needed a 1/2" ring spacer, it looks like I need a slave spacer to go with it.
I also mentioned that there could be another market for this product with all the folks who have expressed an interest in doing a Viper/GM T56 swap here at SCCoA. I invited them to come on over and take a look.
MikeH

talonhead
06-22-2011, 07:35 PM
Started really working on the write-up last night/this morning. Trying to figure the best format for it, trying to get the pic imported and resized.
Need to take some more shots when I take it apart (again) to fit for a slave spacer/shim. It's coming along, slowly.
Hopefully, it will have most of the info needed for parts, assembly order, and what fabrication will need to be done for a "clean" swap.
It won't be cheap. I think the biggest work item is the cross-member.
I think I will put the car on a trailer (after dropping the gas tank), and take it to the local drive-line specialists. They do custom steel and aluminum drive shafts. I think I have enough fiddle room for vertical adjustment built into the cross member and trans mount, to get the angle dialed in.
MikeH

talonhead
06-29-2011, 07:01 PM
Seems that I can't get enough oomph out of my slave to get complete disengagement. I am working on how much spacing is needed. Found a company that does T56 kits (for GM products) ATS (American Touring Specialties) at www.t56kit.com, that makes and packages an LS1 slave spacer in some of their kits. I e-mailed them, asking if they would sell them seperately and what the price would be.
Since I needed a 1/2" ring spacer, it looks like I need a slave spacer to go with it.
I also mentioned that there could be another market for this product with all the folks who have expressed an interest in doing a Viper/GM T56 swap here at SCCoA. I invited them to come on over and take a look.
MikeH

Well, I called them today, since I got no email. They've been bought out and aren't making alot of the parts any more. That sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MikeH

talonhead
08-08-2011, 08:15 PM
Waiting on machinist to finish slave spacer. Got the pressure plate spacer thickness dialed in. Making progress in cleaning the replacement engine.
Have to blast and repaint motor mounts, the galv. has mostly turned to rust.
Installed pilot brg and sleeve, nice fit.
While the engine is on the stand, I'm gonna try to do the oil pres. switch to transducer swap. I've gotta pull the cluster out to install my new gauge faces. Might as well do it all at one time. Oh yea, might as well put the ajd. resistor in for the 145 speedo mod also.
Before I can install the modded cluster I've got to get her running to get the speed-cal box set so that the inputs are valid (different signal from the T56).
MikeH

talonhead
09-29-2011, 08:19 PM
Had to take some personal time away from this project, recover from a hurricane and wait for the machinist I use to get back to work from an injury.
Not to mention almost 4 weeks of 7-day, 9-11 hr/day stint at work testing a new set of steam turbine generators. Haven't even taken my Bow out of the case for deer season yet!

However, I did get some little stuff done: Fitted my new gauge faces, modded speedo for the new 140 face (used a 15 turn pot glued to the speedo frame and accessed through the front with a tweaker), bypassed the resistor for the oil pressure gage, and bought a new pressure sender unit and fittings.
Got the dimensions for the slave spacer and hand drew a crappy drawing for the machinist to make one (I miss my drafting table and templates- CAD confuses the crap out of me!).

Unfortunately, the sunny days were spent working and the days off were wet, so that put a damper on dismanteling the auto car (it served as a fuel storage depot during the 'cane for my generator).

I used seam sealer on the interior floor where I welded the crossmember pad extensions and painted that. Still need to do the underside.
Need to clean the carpet and install (no wire harness damage from mice noted). Might add some sound sheet before I do, though.

Looking at beefing up the t-stat housing. Gotta find my alum. welding rod so I can finish the raised top I started. Pull out the FMIC and take some pics for mock-up.

And when I'm to lazy or or not otherwise occupied, research "the hand operated clutch" aks semi-auto clutch ...ala F1/Indy ----JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS COOOOOLL!
Welcome to fall, leaves are already coming down....need to get the ATV in for service and fix the plow. Winters a-coming.

MikeH

talonhead
10-06-2011, 06:49 PM
......you find someone who makes a part that you really need.... But you find out that they got bought out quit making it........Then as you come up with thw materials to get it custom made, someone (a different someone) now makes it..... And, it will still be cheaper to get it made. (even cheaper if you get more than one made).

Ram Automotive (www.ramclutches.com) sells a line of Universal Hydraulic Bearing Spacers for T56/6060 in 0.5", 0.75", 1.0" and 1.25" (Summit lists some of them, but I think their P/Ns are swapped). RAM list $ is less than Summit.

RAM AUTOMOTIVE www.ramclutches.com
Universal Hydraulic Bearing Spacer T56/6060 collar off transmission

Just thought I'd put this out there for folks.
MikeH

seawalkersee
10-07-2011, 11:33 AM
Wow...You have a ton of time and money in this. Any regrets thus far? I mean, I am still pissed at myself that I did not just throw a 4.6 or a 5.4 in my Bronco sometimes. It may not have been cheaper, but the end result would net about the same result.

SWS

talonhead
10-07-2011, 07:13 PM
SWS,
I am very fortunate that I have: a garage where I don't park the 2 trucks that we use daily. A wife that kinda-sorta understands. (it helps that she found the car in the first place and loves it). And I have a job that I actually enjoy most of the time and it pays fairly well.
The only thing is that her health is slightly headed down hill and requires more of my time. So be it. I still want to find another solid roller for a BBF project. But if I can have only one "full time" project at a time, I'm ok with that. It will just take a little while longer to get it done. BUT, I try to do it right the first time. Hence the time and money to get/make the parts to make it right to start with. Don't want to have to tear it apart and do it over---I get enough of that at work!
For all of you who have kept tabs on this thread, those who have made comments/suggestions, and those who offered up information.....Thank you.
MikeH

talonhead
10-19-2011, 02:33 AM
Machinist called and said he should be done tomorrow with the spacers for the slave mount. About time! I had him make 2, although I bought enough material for several more. Just need to check fit. I designed it to be able to be shimmed with inserts. I figure up to about 1mm under the slave or the spacer or both. Any more I think a thicker spacer should be used.
I will post pics when I get them home. His work was pretty good on the pilot brg sleaves that he did from my specs.

I hope his fall (regular) work drops off fairly soon (only for my schedule, not that I want him to lose business). I have a couple of other projects (not SC oriented, although still Ford) that I'd like to get to work on in the background.
MikeH:)

talonhead
10-21-2011, 08:37 PM
WOOO-HOO!!
Just picked up the spacers from the machine shop on my way to work. They look sweet. Took pics, but have to upload them from home.
MikeH

Here they are:

talonhead
10-23-2011, 02:28 AM
OK, I got my azz into gear and did the slave and spacer install tonight.
Start off with bare mid-plate, then one spacer, then 2 spacers (just for looks), then slave and spacer, clearencint the openings in the mid-plate due to spacers, then notching the spacer ring and the slave and spacer (no spring) to check the clearence with pressure plate.
Had to take off a few thou off the front of the spacer and the slave to get clearence. Now it's time to start puting the whole thing together!
MikeH

talonhead
10-23-2011, 02:29 AM
Tomorrow starts the rebirth!

r1dd1ck913
10-23-2011, 07:48 AM
Sweet sweet progress. I can't wait to see you get this done.

talonhead
10-27-2011, 01:14 AM
spent the $45 to get the flywheel resurfaced today. Working on building an engine rack as it's easier than the rotary stand to work on the engine.

talonhead
01-20-2012, 06:20 PM
Picked up (2) sets of pressure plate bolts from Green's, to go with the fly-wheel hub bolts from Ford.
Between trying to install a 5th wheel hitch on my truck, replace front hub vacuum lines and trouble-shoot front hub engagement issues (in the snow I might add) is just not giving me time in the garage to work on the bird.
Oh well, more due tonight and tomorrow. Need to air up the 4-wheeler tires for play time!
Mike

tyrsmkkyle
01-20-2012, 08:45 PM
this is a really cool project after its all said and done would you do it again? Im considering changing trannies.

talonhead
01-21-2012, 01:01 AM
this is a really cool project after its all said and done would you do it again? Im considering changing trannies.

Yes, I have already considered it for a future project involving a BBF. Big problem is: Finding a suitable donor car. Funding the new trans. Funding the engine build.
Right now it is snowing, and I'm trying to keep my truck going until spring (after I go pick up a 5th wheel trailer from my sister). So, it's on hold for now.
MikeH

Tims03svt
01-30-2012, 09:08 AM
I guess my question is why install a t56? They are heavy! I would like to swap the t56 in my cobra for a built t5 later on down the road. You'll loose the weight and pick up power because less drivetrain loss. Just my opinion..

seawalkersee
01-30-2012, 11:15 AM
Uhhh...strength, reliability, extra gear, parts availability, etc. If we were worried about weight, would we have cars that are in the 2 ton range?

SWS

XxSlowpokexX
02-02-2012, 12:41 AM
I guess my question is why install a t56? They are heavy! I would like to swap the t56 in my cobra for a built t5 later on down the road. You'll loose the weight and pick up power because less drivetrain loss. Just my opinion..

Not compared to our factory transmission! Also a t5 does not fit well at all.

95_XR7
03-27-2012, 03:03 PM
Talon,

Any update on your guide?

-Corey

talonhead
04-08-2012, 09:37 PM
Decided to pull the blower off the motor and put on the one from the original motor after realizing how much oxidation was under the powder coating. ....................THEN found that someone had glued front pass side injector in with RTV! So now I've pulled all the injectors. The o-rings are shot, so I'll need a full set before it goes back together. I'm gonna see if I can borrow a fiber optic cam and check out the cylinders through the plug holes. If I can't get it, I'll just flood the cylinders with oil and suck it out with a vac and a small tube. haven't got much more done as I'm working on getting my truck ready for a trip to MT in a couple of weeks. Still have to re-arrange the garage to bring in the toys while I'm gone (not looking forward to that. It's a real mess.)
Did manage to score a (new) rear sump pan kit for my 460 last week, and finalize my drawings for some parts I need made for it. My machinist though, is swamped as it's spring and everyone wants to get their boats ready YESTERDAY.
Happy Easter everybody!
MikeH

WickedBird302
04-19-2012, 10:54 PM
I have the T-56 in my 93, but I am running a 5.0 It is a great tranny but very expensive swap.

talonhead
05-24-2012, 10:25 PM
Wicked, I totally agree!
Just came off vacation, hoping to get back into my bird. Looks like the SN-197 T56 magnum is now the T-56 Magnum 'XL' kit is about $3800 for the 4.6/5.7l cammers. All I need is the trans and a flywheel for the 460 and that would complete the parts needed to run that combo (minus engine rebuild/EFI conversion).
MikeH

talonhead
06-19-2012, 05:57 PM
Well, ran into a few small issues with the upper end and am awaiting parts to fix before installing onto car.
This weekend I dragged out the 460 block w/crank and the BBF/T56 bellhousing kit. Unbolted the SBF/T56 bell off the trans and replaced it with the BBF unit (I think they sent the wrong bolts to bolt to the 460 block mm vs in.)
With the 1/2" spacer ring left in place, the input shaft nose juuuuusst peeks past the edge of the engine plate. (The BBF bellhousing is about 1/4" deeper than the SBF unit)
Where the V6 crank hub is near flush with the rear of the block, the 460 sticks out about an inch. This looks like its gonna be a good depth for the pilot. I'll just have another pilot bearing sleeve made.
Mike

talonhead
06-22-2012, 08:39 PM
The temp and humidity are near 100 each, 3.8sc parts are delayed, AND wife needs her Hummer maintenanced so she can go to CA to help out her parents!
At this rate I'll finish the 460 first!.....................anyone got a 176t flywheel?;)
MikeH

talonhead
12-03-2012, 08:28 PM
Brakes and shocks all around on the H2, then pull the dash apart to find why the transfer case isn't working. Thank God that I know how to troubleshoot wiring and that I can actually read and understand a service manual!
Transfer case wasn't working because mice had chewed on the wiring under the fuse block in the engine bay!!!! Eleven splices and 13 insulation repaires later......it almost works. Had to reassign the fuse holders for the transfer case module and OnStar (no biggee, I don't use OnStar anyways) NOW it works. Well, out to CA for a month then back....no issues.
Lost my four wheeler key when I flew out to CA to bring the wife back. Had to pull the ignition sw out and take to a locksmith to code cut a key (actually 3) Service and winterize camper. (then secure it for huricane). Then attend 2 outastate funerals for Guys that I served with in the Military.
My garage looks like a junkyard puked into it. Somewhere under all that crap is: 1 car, 1 ATV, 1 snowblower, 1 HD cherry picker, 2 SC engines, 1 460 engine, 1 T56 trans (with 2 bellhousings), 1 M5R2, 1 AOD, most of two interiors and engine bays, 1 oxy/acet rig, 1 generator, 1 pressure washer, 3 welding machines and 1 air compressor.
The compressor, generator and 2 freezers, I can find.........the rest.... ohh lord help me. And I haven't even gone hunting this year!
MikeH

talonhead
02-01-2014, 03:05 AM
Seen a few posts for T56 stuff lately so bumping;)
Not much new progress. Working on big brake install and the BBF retro EFI project.

Collecting new AN- fuel fittings for BBF, welded up 460 intake for injector bosses, got some AN-8 fuel rails from Kinsler, machinist is making an SC cam synchro adapter sleeve for the 460. 460 is in the engine bay of the SC. May need to rethink the fan/radiator set up for the swap. Didn't have enough height to put the 460/T56 into the bay together so had to finally order a transmission jack to tuck the Trans up in the tunnel and connect. (Jacked up my wrist Jan. '13, since then just don't have the strength to lift the Trans by hand.) working the 'bird 5.0 engine harness to fit the 460. Cleaning up exterior of T56 (trying to get the paint off and do a little polishing of the case to make it look better). Keeping a lookout for an OEM hood or a 'glass hood for clearing the 460. Working with pics from ProStreet Rich to fab up some motor mounts. Still trying to find a flywheel/clutch/pressure plate combo. (Had a guy say he could make a custom flywheel to fit a matched GM clutch/pressure plate, waiting for price). Trying to work out engine accessory layout. May have to change out power steering pump and swap out the brake booster for a hydro-boost to fit the 460 (Don't want to lose the power brakes).

Rebuilt my SC fuel rails and got new injectors. Working on cleaning up (2) SC blowers (powder coat is flaking and metal is corroding). Trying to find some aluminum to make the new walls for the extended blower top. Working on taking the front bumper cover again to check fit the FMIC that I picked up awhile back. Really need to get some new headlight lenses. Fitting a 'bird spoiler.

Thanks again for those who input ideas. Last year was full of non-car issues that kept me from making major progress on anything garage related.
MikeH

talonhead
05-28-2016, 08:37 PM
The machinist who was supposed to do the Cam Synch adapter and Crank trigger/spacer for the 460 fell through. I did find another source for ready made Synch's and 36-1 trigger/spacers for the 385 engines over at www.dragonfabrication.com.
Since I wasn't having luck with getting small stuff done by the machinist, I ordered some alum injector bungs from Ross Machine. After I got them home, I took a caliper and measured them. I took one to the local True Value (Which has an outstanding stock of quality hardware). I found some 1/2"x2" socket head machined shoulder bolts. As the bungs are 1/2" inside (except where the injector fits) and 2" long, these bolts fit snugly in the bung. The socket head O.D. is the same as the bung O.D., so slipping it in the manifold runner hole is easy. I also picked up a length of alum angle to drill and slot to obtain and hold the bung spacing and attach another jig to hold the injector angle for welding/glueing. I picked alum because it is extruded squared on the inside and outside of angle. Also, the flats are parallel (angle iron is formed on rollers and the inner sides are not squared, the junction and edges are rounded.
I found that as I don't have a milling machine, nor do I presently have the $ to send off the manifold to a specialty shop for injector bungs to be welded and machined or drilled and bungs inserted into runners, I had to find a way to do it myself. As of yet, I don't know what heads will reside on my engine. So, the least expensive method would be to drill and insert bungs. If I do my current manifold (performer & std heads) it will be good practice if I wind up with SCJ's.. . . Or if I convert something other than a single carb manifold.
Will try to get some pics up soon.

davec73
05-28-2016, 08:42 PM
I have a set of port matched heads for a 429 lmk if interested.

talonhead
05-28-2016, 09:05 PM
Dave,
Thanx, but I want to go with alum to reduce some decent weight. I figure swapping out the cast iron intake and heads for alum, ought to be worth several hundred pounds.

talonhead
04-14-2019, 01:45 AM
I am selling my V6 T-56 parts. Staying with the BBF/T-56.
McLeod SFI bell housing, clutch & pressure plate. See add in parts.
MikeH