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no164ford
04-22-2006, 03:28 PM
I am currently doing a manual steering swap in my car, and was thinking that mabe I could help out a few more people with all my reaserch and time invested. I would offer only a few of these kits if everthing works out. This kit would use your orignal tierod ends. The kit would inclued,

1 NEW (not rebuilt) Flameing River FR1508 manual rack with 20:1 ratio and 4 turn lock to lock

1 Modified orignal rag joint

This is a easy way to free up good HP (hopeing for 10-15hp) and loose up to 40+ lbs in a SC. Hopeing to keep the cost around 350.00 to 360.00.

I am just checking to see if there is anyone interested.

cdchicago
04-22-2006, 04:31 PM
I might be interested, after i hear how you like the steering effort. Will there be belt problems? The belt on mine goes from crank under lower hose and up to alt.
If you delete the p/s pump it looks like the belt would hit the lower rad hose.

no164ford
04-22-2006, 08:40 PM
Yes I looked at the belt just now and you are right it will hit the lower rad hose. On my car I am planing to move the alt to the right side of the motor so I never gave it much thought but I did plan on getting the needed belt sizes for the sc with and without ac and the alt on the right or left side. I will look into getting a diffrent lower rad hose. Here it goes the price will be out of the roof before I am done:mad:

no164ford
04-23-2006, 09:29 AM
I got to thinking about it I probbly will never make a kit to do this, I will just make a post under the How To with all the part #'s

seawalkersee
04-23-2006, 09:43 AM
I am going to do the swap as well. The PINTO racks are cheaper then the flaming river ones. I asked someone how to do the rag joint thing but they said to trim it or something? I think I will use a knuckle from an existing shaft that I already have. This will eliminate the flex in the column and give it a bit better response. As far as the belt goes. I think I will get a plastic AC deleate kit and stick it on the side there and keep the same length of belt.

Chris

CMac89
04-23-2006, 10:21 AM
I run a Flaming River steering rack in my race cars and they work really well. They are VERY easy on turning too.

seawalkersee
04-23-2006, 11:27 AM
Did you do anything special?

Chris

CMac89
04-23-2006, 03:58 PM
I used the included mounting clamps and then welded a rod and a nut to the frame to bolt it to. That was that.

seawalkersee
04-23-2006, 05:44 PM
I guess you did not buy a generic rack then? Was it one to convert the SC? What did you do to get rid of your PS pully? Did you just change your lower hose to miss the belt? Or is this for another non SC car?

Chris

no164ford
04-23-2006, 07:24 PM
The nice part about the 94-04 mustang rack I am useing is that you just use the stock SC tierod ends with no modifications

cdchicago
06-05-2006, 02:56 AM
Hry no164 have you finished this project?

How did it work out? Turning effort, road feel etc...

392Bird
01-03-2007, 11:29 AM
What was the results of this? Parts used, and is it in use now?

tydlwavs
01-19-2007, 11:32 PM
I am also interested in this topic. I would very much like to loose the power steering set-up on the 91 I am building. Part numbers and info would be appreciated. This build will be a V8 swap and not a 3.8 SC.

Thanks,
Todd

PReDiTR91
01-20-2007, 12:19 AM
Well Im gonna build me a "392Bird" steering shaft & Im gonna go manual steering next month maybe. Im gonna be using a 351W block with March brackets for manual steering, may be a little more tricky on SC motors though!

SuperCoupeSC91
01-28-2007, 09:34 PM
BTW:

Why not just remove the pump, and loop the 2 lines on the rack together, i learned this on the BMW forum i'm a part of, i did this on my e30 and its not that bad without the pump a little tighter. I told my bro to do it on his stang, and he will be doing is soon.

It's free also, just time consuming..

On my e30... a pic of it..

http://www.sccoct.com/Stuff/e30%2089%20325i/power%20steering%20delete%20pic.JPG

seawalkersee
01-29-2007, 01:13 PM
It will work to do it that way, but it is not the right way. You are pushing the fluid back through the lines and pushing against seals that usually have pressure on the back of them. I too have seen this done, but I want to do it the right way....in a few years.

Chris

SuperCoupeSC91
01-29-2007, 01:21 PM
people have been running there cars for years like this..

there was many discussions on this, and i believe what you are saying is incorrect, since theres a feed and return, the fluid cycles around as it normally would, just without the pump (think about it) the pump just assits and makes it easier (also stealing HP from the motor and adding weight to the vehicle)...the steering does get a bit firmer, but its able to live with, and its very firm at under 4mph or turning when the car is not moving.

and dont try to just bypass your pump with the pump/lines connected or it will be the worse....

I do not plan to do my steering rack, and if i thought it was going to damage my rack i would of never done it...

icantdrive55
02-21-2007, 10:52 PM
So what about the tie rod length, steering shaft and the mounting locations? Are these all the same on a FR '94/'95 Mustang manual rack as a Tbird? Like a direct bolt-on?

I guess I could have a look at both power racks at the parts store to get an idea. The power racks have different part #'s for both applications. Hopefully it is just in where the hoses go.

I could lose my power steering in a hurry. Even though I've spent a few hundred $$$ replacing every part with new/reman stuff.:mad: My reasoning for a manual rack would be less weight and hp gain. Plus every hotrod I've owned had manual steering when it was done:D

tim
02-22-2007, 11:50 AM
I did a manual rack on my car. Iam sure that some of the peple that were at the shotout can chime in. I got the rack from NAPA. I used S.C. tie rod ends. Modified the rag joint. I also pulled off all the power steering stuff. As far as how much more hp. it made I dont know. The engine sure winds up a lot faster with all that drag gone.

tim
02-22-2007, 12:06 PM
And by the way $350 in a good deal for a bolt on kit. I had to do some work to get the rag joint to work.:D

icantdrive55
02-22-2007, 09:30 PM
Um, my question was whether the Flaming River rack would bolt directly up to my tie rods, steering coupler, and k-frame mounts. The car is a '93 LX with 5.0. I'm already using a '392bird steering setup' for header clearance.

Here is a link to the one I would buy- http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLA%2DFR1508&N=700+115&autoview=sku

My unconfirmed assumptions are- '94/95 'stang rack is a direct bolt-in after changing the steering coupler.

'79-'93 'stang rack fits but would require new tie rods and a coupler.

Pinto/MustangII rack would fit with custom mounts, coupler, and tie-rods.


Is this all correct?

PReDiTR91
03-08-2007, 02:31 AM
I got the manual rack & pinion from tims friend the other day, I will post pics when I have a chance. The price is $250 & you use your SC tie rod ends also it bolts right up to your k member. It weighs no more then 15 lbs. The place is called Antioch auto parts inc. (847)395-3660 ask for Mike Sexton

Ddubb
03-09-2007, 06:06 AM
Oh really ?? How is the ratio in the new R&P ??
I have been debating on getting a manual rack for my 4.6 Bird. :D

- Dan

tim
03-09-2007, 10:36 AM
It is a slower ratio so the steering effort is not bad at all. I dont plan on road racing so it works great for me. Tim

no164ford
03-10-2007, 03:40 AM
Um, my question was whether the Flaming River rack would bolt directly up to my tie rods, steering coupler, and k-frame mounts. The car is a '93 LX with 5.0. I'm already using a '392bird steering setup' for header clearance.

Here is a link to the one I would buy- http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLA%2DFR1508&N=700+115&autoview=sku

My unconfirmed assumptions are- '94/95 'stang rack is a direct bolt-in after changing the steering coupler.

'79-'93 'stang rack fits but would require new tie rods and a coupler.

Pinto/MustangII rack would fit with custom mounts, coupler, and tie-rods.


Is this all correct?

No the Flaming River rack will not fit the SC tie rods.

All Flaming River racks HAVE TO HAVE Flaming River tie rods and rag joint and most venders will not tell you this till after you have the rack and Flaming river does not make the tie rod ends and rag joint to work with our cars. I custom fabed all my parts to make the rack work in my car.

icantdrive55
03-12-2007, 08:03 PM
Could someone please give some better details on the required parts?

1. The steering coupler is smaller with a manual rack- will need a new one
2. The tie rods use a different thread than tbird tie rods- need new tie rod ends
3. 79-93 and 94/95 Mustangs mounting locations are both 15.5" - same as a tbird

Would it be possible to get a Fox manual rack and install tbird inner tie rods onto it? If so that would be as close to a direct fit as possible. Only the steering coupler would need changing.

Or is there another outer tie rod made that fits properly on the tbird with a Mustang rack?

Oh yeah- I've decided to just get a reman rack locally for alot less than the Flaming River.

PReDiTR91
03-12-2007, 11:32 PM
Why do you want to use the Flaming rivers? The one that tim & I have bolts up to your k-member & it uses SC tie rod ends! Its 250 bux & weighs the same as the Flaming rivers.

icantdrive55
03-13-2007, 05:13 AM
I'm a tightwad;) That's why the Flaming River rack is out of the question. I greatly appreciate the trouble some have taken in making a manual rack work.

The direct fit sounds nice. Will the steering coupler have the same spline as a power rack? I'm currently using a $60.00 Flaming River u-joint in place of the rag joint. It would be nice not to buy another one with different splines.

I talked to Mike Sexton. He was friendly and knew about the custom tbird rack but wasn't completely familiar with how it was setup. He said it was a kit or something. Then informed me that if I wanted to know more to ask the people who bought a rack from him. If I order one from Mike what parts come with it and will the steering coupler need a smaller spline?

If the one from Antioch has a 3/4"-36 pinion I will most likely buy from them. If it has the usual manual rack 9/16"-26 spline I can probably make my own custom rack.

It might be possible to buy a reman '80-'93 manual Mustang rack and reuse my almost new inner and outer tie rods. This would give the proper length to set the toe. Of course I'm just assuming the Mustang would be shorter between the spindles. The ground is too wet after all the rain to measure my friends dead Mustang. I would rather purchase locally for slightly less cash then install it while doing an engine swap.

If the inner tie rods have a different thread where they screw onto the rack this idea won't work. My research says a manual racks input spline is smaller and will require another new $60.00 steering coupler- almost negating any savings found by buying locally if the one from Antioch has the larger spline. The actual housings appear to have the same dimensions.

As you can tell I want a COMPLETE understanding of any and all differences or any extra parts that may be needed.

tim
03-14-2007, 07:57 AM
The rack is a bolt on. The tie rod ends turn right on. Use the rag joint from the SC at the tp and the new one at the bottom. You drill out the rivets and mate the both together with grade 8 bolts. If I can do it anybody can. The steering effort is not bad. Like any car with manual steering just get the car moving a little first before you turn the wheel. It is also s lower ratio, more turns lock to lock. This also helps with turing effort. I drive my car all over town and have never had a problem. It also frees up a lot of space around the engine and takes weight off the front end.

icantdrive55
03-16-2007, 10:34 PM
Hopefully all the research I've done is correct. I ordered a reman manual rack for a 1984 Mustang. The longer Thunderbird inner tie rods should fit on it perfectly once the Mustang ones are removed. Reusing the ones from my power rack makes sense. The power rack is only 1 year old and had brand new inner tie rods.

Now I need a new steering coupler from Flaming River. 9/16"-26 x 3/4 DD is the size. That will be another $65.00

The only local stores that could get the rack were Napa and Autozone. I went with the ATSCO branded reman from Autozone for $135.00 + tax. The local NAPA was alot more.

A1 Cardone won't build any for at least a few weeks or longer. I would bet manual rack cores are getting scarce for Mustangs. The A1 Cardone's price is comparable with Autozone's part. No matter because supposedly no one- including Cardone- has the Cardone rack in stock:rolleyes:

When this little project is complete I will post an update on how my parts selection fits.... and whether the ATSCO branded rack is well built.

Thanks to all who installed a manual rack first. It's alot easier to jump on the bandwagon than just diving in blindly.

seawalkersee
03-17-2007, 03:29 PM
What belt did you guys use after getting rid of the PS pump? Did you put a pully there to fix that or no?

Chris

tim
03-17-2007, 08:42 PM
I also have an electric water pump so the belts only turn the jackshaft and one for the alternator.

Randy N Connie
03-19-2007, 02:03 PM
I also have an electric water pump so the belts only turn the jackshaft and one for the alternator.

I plan to do the same. I plan to make a bracket for the alternator.
And run the alt lower with shorter belt. Don't have the bracket
designed and machined yet, but have electric waterpump built.
It will be nice to finaly get rid of that heavy stock bracket.

Since mine is a daily driver.The only reason I plan to get rid of
power streering, is to help make the car easy to work on.
I also hope getting rid of stock brackets helps in cooling.

I plan to install my new brackets, Nonpower steering,electric
water pump,tubed k-member at the same time. Then I will
be able to see and change spark plugs,and drop the oil pan
if need be.

Don't need to make it any faster,I am happy with were it at.
Just want it easer to work on.

I think I will go with a Flaming River rack, because is has
chrome parts.And I like the bling factor.Intallation may take
a little longer though.

Randy

tim
03-19-2007, 03:46 PM
Randy I can do plugs on my car in 15 minutes, smoking a cig and drinking coffee.

icantdrive55
03-21-2007, 08:39 PM
The Fox Mustang rack is a no-go. The inner tie rods have a larger thread where they go on the manual rack. Making it work would be cost prohibitive without having a free machine shop.

Now to decide on the reman from Antioch or a Flaming River for a '94 up Mustang...

Kevin Leitem
03-21-2007, 09:52 PM
The Fox Mustang rack is a no-go. The inner tie rods have a larger thread where they go on the manual rack. Making it work would be cost prohibitive without having a free machine shop.

Now to decide on the reman from Antioch or a Flaming River for a '94 up Mustang...

I run the fox manual rack. all you need is tie rods ends from a 72 charger. (all mopars around that year use the same) and a piece of round solid stock of aliminum or steel around 1.125 thick and 6 or so inches long drill it and thread it the same as the tie rod. ( the mopar ends have the same thread as the flaming river tie rods.) that is what i did and it works great

ScrapSC
03-21-2007, 11:14 PM
Right there with ya Tim... I like being able to do my plugs in 15 minutes also.. I do still have the power steerring but with the way I have my intercooler and also the AC gone it is a breeze.

Later
Big A

icantdrive55
03-25-2007, 10:51 PM
Somehow, adding sleeves then using Chrysler tie rods just didn't seem right. It would have surely worked but a 9/16 tap wasn't handy:eek: Pinto MANUAL steering inner tie rods are longer but cost almost $100.00 each. Then they probably aren't long enough.

I made the Fox Mustang rack fit with Thunderbird inner tie rods. Went to the junkyard and picked up a couple inner tie rods from a mn12 tbird. Cut them open then turned down the larger ball end on a lathe to match the size of the Mustang inners. The manual racks have inner tie rods with the old Pinto style seperate ball and seat. The rack has around 6" of travel and 3.75 turns between stops. Probably works out to a 15-1 ratio. I may need to add limiters if it travels too far.

This is definitely not the easy way to go and probably voids the lifetime warranty on the rack. It did get me by for under $160.00 including the "like new"/used inner and outer tie rods- including sales tax. If I started over I would get the one from the NAPA in Antioch just to avoid any hassle. The local NAPA is very sub-par so isn't worth dealing with.

Now all that's needed is a new steering u-joint, poly bushings, and a belt.

My car is a 5.0 and needs to keep the a/c. I'm considering moving the alternator to the driver side one day if the manual rack is comfortable. For now a shorter belt will do.

icantdrive55
04-11-2007, 07:13 AM
The rack is working out fine. Takes some getting used to at first. Parallel parking almost made me mad first time out. I bought some 205/65/15 front tires and they don't like turning at a standstill. Once rolling the car turns easily. The road feel is awesome. The engine definitely revs quicker.