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XR7 Dave
05-01-2006, 11:09 AM
Time to put some of the crap thats been floating around here to rest.

First of all no one, Spinning Wheels, Morana, SuperSix Motorsports, RPM Mustangs, SCP, Coy Miller, or - yes- you guessed it SuperCoupes Unlimited make their own cams (sorry if I forgot anyone). Nope, we don't. In fact, we don't even have unique profiles. Instead we all call up a major cam grinder and they grind us cams from their "inventory" of available profiles. Nothing stops another vendor -or even YOU from getting the exact same cam. No one has exclusive rights to any cam or cam profile, so infering that one cam is "better" than another or somehow "prettier" than another is just plain silly. They all come from the same place.

Now some people, and Coy Miller comes to mind, have installed cams into a motor, logged the EXACT results on an engine dyno, removed the cam, installed another profile, and then logged those results. This is research and development. This takes time, money, effort, and knowledge. If Coy wants to protect the results of his testing, that is entirely up to him.

However, the truth is that as far as I know ONLY Coy Miller has ever done this kind of testing. Period. Some of us have come close. But if you test a engine/cam combination on a chassis dyno most likely there are many variables that are left out and many unknowns. In other words, you can verify certain things on a dyno but you sure can't do qualitative back to back testing. You get an idea, but you don't know if a 112 LSA actually works better for the combination that you have than a 114 LSA will. If you claim otherwise you are lying. It's that simple. To say that one cam profile or another will give xxhp is a lie unless you have hard before and after data to back it up. I'm not talking about a peak number on a dynojet either. I'm talking about a full sprectrum, 1500rpm-redline dyno test with controlled parameters and conditions. Unless such data is published any HP claims are invalid and if you don't think so you're fooling yourself. This is why I do not make any claims about how much HP any given cam will "give you". I'm not that naive and I hope you aren't either.

Honest business folks will tell you this. People who post their cam specs (like Morana, SSM, RPM, etc.) do so because they know that their cams follow a responsible pattern and the results are going to be what is expected but they also know that they don't have a magic forumula. They are not silly enough to think that they have proprietary information. Some of us understand this.

I have not posted cam specs on this site. I'm going to tell you why too and I hope you will find the answer just a little bit humorous. :) See, I understand that there isn't a 100% magic formula for creating the ideal cam. Well there is I guess, if I had your engine on a dyno and was able to test individual results I could come up with an ideal cam, but in all seriousness I doubt you'd pay for such testing. ;) So instead I have a formula that works and I tailor it to each individual's requests. Anyone want to guess where my formula came from? I'll tell you. 1) Comp Cams computer profiling software, arguably some of the best in the business (I sure as hell HOPE Victor uses the same source), 2) Dr. Fred's advice, 3) discussions with other engine builders, 4) discussions with other members of the competition, 5) general laws of physics, 6) the experience of my fellow SC'ers, 7) the experience of other un-named individuals (thanks to all those who are willing to share!), 8) my own testing and experience. What I have done is put together all the tidbits that are available to anyone and everyone else, used common (well not that common I guess) sense and some knowledge that I've gained from my own experience and come back to you with a profile that I believe will work well within your desired parameters.

Ok, that was quite a mouthful, but the bottom line is that of all the cams I have sold to members here, only a small handful were the same and they werent' the same because I have a standard cam that I offer, but rather because a couple people happened to have the same requests. ;)

I have nothing to hide folks. Instead I approach each request for a cam with a blank sheet and I design a cam from the ground up for each person. I weigh things like desired idle quality, valve selection, valve spring choices, rpm ranges, boost levels, flow #'s, compression ratio, trans choice, budget, etc, etc, and I come back with what I feel is the best choice for the application. I don't subscribe to a one size fits all mentality and I don't offer people choices. I take people's requests and I match their wants/needs while making sure that the results are going to be responsible and will give the desired results. The bottom line is that you have to trust me and my experience. Well, either that or you can send me your specs and I'll order a cam based off of that just for you too. I'm not totally arbitrary. :) You can ask my advice or you can simply submit your order (which some have done). If you submit your order then you can take 100% credit (or blame) for the results. I'm ok with that too.

The bottom line is that if you get a cam from SuperCoupes Unlimited you will be buying my experience and my sincere desire to make your car perform the best that I can. This is something that I believe you cannot get from anyone else. No one (not even Dr. Fred) has the dyno and tuning experience that I have. Coy has dyno experience but lacks (IMO) real world experience, particularly with 5spd SC's. SSM and some others have Mustang experience that is relevant and valid but not exactly the same as SC experience.

Does that mean I can do better than anyone else? No. It means that I do my homework and I continue to have your best interests in mind. SCU is devoted to the advancement of performance in the SC world. I will help you select your own components even if you don't buy them from me. I've done that for many people here and I will continue to do so. However, if you choose to buy things from me it will not be because I have the lowest price (although I do try very hard to be competitive and very often you will find that I am the low price leader). Instead I hope that you will buy from me because we are partners and fellow enthusiasts. I do not sell parts just to sell parts. I sell parts to help you out and if I don't make a living at it then I can't much help you out. :cool: I want you to be responsible with your money and I want you to have success with your SC. The parts I sell are all parts I use on my own cars and they are also parts that offer a performance or cost advantage over others that are available. I have worked hard to develop relationships with the companies for which I sell products to bring things to the SC community that will benefit you. If I can't offer that benefit I don't sell the parts. Again, I am not a parts vendor for the sake of selling parts. I am a performance enthusiast who is taking this very seriously. I expect the same from any of you. I dont' sell gimmicks and I will decline to get caught in the middle of a circus where a customer is trying to shop price and numbers putting one vendor against another. I bring a responsible price to the table but please don't waste your time trying to price or number shop me against another vendor. That doesn't mean you aren't encouraged to ask if you think a price is out of line. Most often there is a good reason and I'll be happy to explain any differences.

On the other hand I have been asked more than once asked me to provide others with the specs for some basic cam packages to sell to the "typical SC'er". You may draw your own conclusions as to why a vendor might do this. Personally I feel there is nothing wrong with this but the bottom line is that some people are leading and some are following. You choose whom you will trust.

:)

Nettlesd
05-01-2006, 02:02 PM
The bottom line is that if you get a cam from SuperCoupes Unlimited you will be buying my experience and my sincere desire to make your car perform the best that I can.

Your dedication to the club and our cars is what I see in you. That's why I like you and so do others. You're committed and we can see that in you.

supertbird89
05-01-2006, 03:17 PM
Well besides Coy, I know that Victor had all of the cams tested in engines with dyno numbers to prove it. But in order to find that out you would have to see them, talk to him, and see his research. But he wont share that because he gets nothing but the boot from everyone on this site, which he then is expected to help you people out and give you far prices, alittle contradicting in my book. Lets hate on someone then try to kiss there ~~~ so that we can get the better end of the deal and then turn around and tell everyone he is a horrible person and runs a horrible business. But for the actual truth his cams are everything you said no one can promise in a cam.

David Neibert
05-01-2006, 05:48 PM
But for the actual truth his cams are everything you said no one can promise in a cam.

What do you base this statement on ?

David

supertbird89
05-01-2006, 06:03 PM
Proof, but like Victor states he wont post any of his specs or studies but I have one and its great and service is great. And compairing to other cams I have seen and had expierenced. Its the best there is.

turbospeed
05-01-2006, 06:10 PM
well since most of us spend our money after we read other peoples experiences specs etc a thousand times i tink it would be wise to post some some results.....

racecougar
05-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Proof, but like Victor states he wont post any of his specs or studies but I have one and its great and service is great. And compairing to other cams I have seen and had expierenced. Its the best there is.

And where might some of us see this proof? :confused:

All I've seen you post so far is your own opinion. There isn't anything wrong with that, but some of us here like to see opinions backed by facts (facts that we can see ourselves).

-Rod

Mike8675309
05-01-2006, 08:36 PM
Clearly expressed.

I feel the key to any of this motor build up stuff when you're not an engine builder is having faith in those you communicate with. Faith that they will listen to what you're looking for and clearly let you know what they can offer.

What it takes for a person to put their trust/faith in service/parts provider is very different for different people. There isn't much point in knocking one person for who they trust, vs who someone else trusts.

92strokedbird
05-01-2006, 08:45 PM
I for one would rather put my trust in someone who actually builds and tests these cars.Over someone who posts figures over what others have done.I have read numerous times how someone bought something that promised actual gains of posted figures only to get half if not less than what was advertised.It is much better to sell low and come in high than be put in such bad light over a product that you have quoted actual figures for.

If this post upsets people then i am sorry but so be it.:rolleyes:

Dahoopd
05-01-2006, 09:00 PM
Time to put some of the crap thats been floating around here to rest.

First of all no one, Spinning Wheels, Morana, SuperSix Motorsports, RPM Mustangs, SCP, Coy Miller, or - yes- you guessed it SuperCoupes Unlimited make their own cams (sorry if I forgot anyone). Nope, we don't. In fact, we don't even have unique profiles. Instead we all call up a major cam grinder and they grind us cams from their "inventory" of available profiles. Nothing stops another vendor -or even YOU from getting the exact same cam. No one has exclusive rights to any cam or cam profile, so infering that one cam is "better" than another or somehow "prettier" than another is just plain silly. They all come from the same place.

Now some people, and Coy Miller comes to mind, have installed cams into a motor, logged the EXACT results on an engine dyno, removed the cam, installed another profile, and then logged those results. This is research and development. This takes time, money, effort, and knowledge. If Coy wants to protect the results of his testing, that is entirely up to him.

However, the truth is that as far as I know ONLY Coy Miller has ever done this kind of testing. Period. Some of us have come close. But if you test a engine/cam combination on a chassis dyno most likely there are many variables that are left out and many unknowns. In other words, you can verify certain things on a dyno but you sure can't do qualitative back to back testing. You get an idea, but you don't know if a 112 LSA actually works better for the combination that you have than a 114 LSA will. If you claim otherwise you are lying. It's that simple. To say that one cam profile or another will give xxhp is a lie unless you have hard before and after data to back it up. I'm not talking about a peak number on a dynojet either. I'm talking about a full sprectrum, 1500rpm-redline dyno test with controlled parameters and conditions. Unless such data is published any HP claims are invalid and if you don't think so you're fooling yourself. This is why I do not make any claims about how much HP any given cam will "give you". I'm not that naive and I hope you aren't either.

Honest business folks will tell you this. People who post their cam specs (like Morana, SSM, RPM, etc.) do so because they know that their cams follow a responsible pattern and the results are going to be what is expected but they also know that they don't have a magic forumula. They are not silly enough to think that they have proprietary information. Some of us understand this.

I have not posted cam specs on this site. I'm going to tell you why too and I hope you will find the answer just a little bit humorous. :) See, I understand that there isn't a 100% magic formula for creating the ideal cam. Well there is I guess, if I had your engine on a dyno and was able to test individual results I could come up with an ideal cam, but in all seriousness I doubt you'd pay for such testing. ;) So instead I have a formula that works and I tailor it to each individual's requests. Anyone want to guess where my formula came from? I'll tell you. 1) Comp Cams computer profiling software, arguably some of the best in the business (I sure as hell HOPE Victor uses the same source), 2) Dr. Fred's advice, 3) discussions with other engine builders, 4) discussions with other members of the competition, 5) general laws of physics, 6) the experience of my fellow SC'ers, 7) the experience of other un-named individuals (thanks to all those who are willing to share!), 8) my own testing and experience. What I have done is put together all the tidbits that are available to anyone and everyone else, used common (well not that common I guess) sense and some knowledge that I've gained from my own experience and come back to you with a profile that I believe will work well within your desired parameters.

Ok, that was quite a mouthful, but the bottom line is that of all the cams I have sold to members here, only a small handful were the same and they werent' the same because I have a standard cam that I offer, but rather because a couple people happened to have the same requests. ;)

I have nothing to hide folks. Instead I approach each request for a cam with a blank sheet and I design a cam from the ground up for each person. I weigh things like desired idle quality, valve selection, valve spring choices, rpm ranges, boost levels, flow #'s, compression ratio, trans choice, budget, etc, etc, and I come back with what I feel is the best choice for the application. I don't subscribe to a one size fits all mentality and I don't offer people choices. I take people's requests and I match their wants/needs while making sure that the results are going to be responsible and will give the desired results. The bottom line is that you have to trust me and my experience. Well, either that or you can send me your specs and I'll order a cam based off of that just for you too. I'm not totally arbitrary. :) You can ask my advice or you can simply submit your order (which some have done). If you submit your order then you can take 100% credit (or blame) for the results. I'm ok with that too.

The bottom line is that if you get a cam from SuperCoupes Unlimited you will be buying my experience and my sincere desire to make your car perform the best that I can. This is something that I believe you cannot get from anyone else. No one (not even Dr. Fred) has the dyno and tuning experience that I have. Coy has dyno experience but lacks (IMO) real world experience, particularly with 5spd SC's. SSM and some others have Mustang experience that is relevant and valid but not exactly the same as SC experience.

Does that mean I can do better than anyone else? No. It means that I do my homework and I continue to have your best interests in mind. SCU is devoted to the advancement of performance in the SC world. I will help you select your own components even if you don't buy them from me. I've done that for many people here and I will continue to do so. However, if you choose to buy things from me it will not be because I have the lowest price (although I do try very hard to be competitive and very often you will find that I am the low price leader). Instead I hope that you will buy from me because we are partners and fellow enthusiasts. I do not sell parts just to sell parts. I sell parts to help you out and if I don't make a living at it then I can't much help you out. :cool: I want you to be responsible with your money and I want you to have success with your SC. The parts I sell are all parts I use on my own cars and they are also parts that offer a performance or cost advantage over others that are available. I have worked hard to develop relationships with the companies for which I sell products to bring things to the SC community that will benefit you. If I can't offer that benefit I don't sell the parts. Again, I am not a parts vendor for the sake of selling parts. I am a performance enthusiast who is taking this very seriously. I expect the same from any of you. I dont' sell gimmicks and I will decline to get caught in the middle of a circus where a customer is trying to shop price and numbers putting one vendor against another. I bring a responsible price to the table but please don't waste your time trying to price or number shop me against another vendor. That doesn't mean you aren't encouraged to ask if you think a price is out of line. Most often there is a good reason and I'll be happy to explain any differences.

On the other hand I have been asked more than once asked me to provide others with the specs for some basic cam packages to sell to the "typical SC'er". You may draw your own conclusions as to why a vendor might do this. Personally I feel there is nothing wrong with this but the bottom line is that some people are leading and some are following. You choose whom you will trust.

:)

Damn I like your honesty and integrity........No Bones About It! And if I lived down the street I would steal your PC and all of its hidden SC knowledge. You gotta store it somewhere. ( By the way, I know this reply doesnt belong in this section but I dont give a rats boost. It had to be said)

David Neibert
05-01-2006, 11:22 PM
Proof, but like Victor states he wont post any of his specs or studies but I have one and its great and service is great. And compairing to other cams I have seen and had expierenced. Its the best there is.

I'm not talking about Victor posting his cam specs, I'm talking about why you are disputing what Dave has written about the cam selection and testing process.

I'm on my 4th cam and have plenty of 1st hand experince on the topic. There is no one cam profile that works well in every SC or makes a specific amount of HP. You can pick out two or three grinds and use them to cover a bunch of cars, and those cars will usually run okay and in most cases show a performance improvement, but that doesn't mean "it's the best there is".

I have no idea what the specs are for the cams Victor is selling, and I don't really want to know. If you think the cam you bought performs as advertised and your happy with it, then that all that really matters. I'm curious....Did you document the performance increase on the cam you installed, if so what were the results ? Most of the cams I installed actually made the car runs worse until re-tuning the car.

David

Melon
05-01-2006, 11:23 PM
supertbird89 - I have a cam that Dave spec'd out for me - I think it's great. It has suited my needs so far quite nicely. I got my cam from Dave because I trust with his knowledge and experience with the Super Coupes. And I agree with Mike8675309, if you aren't doing the actual building - you have to have faith in who is doing the building that they listened to your needs and builds the motor to fit the needs. I've got faith in Dave - He's the only vendor that I've met in person and hasn't steered me wrong before. So why fix what isn't broken?

I have nothing against any other vendor - I have bought parts from Bill/SCP with some parts, I've gotten a few things from Victor, and had ordered parts from Rich/MN12 Performance. But this is my opinion and take it for what it's worth.

-Melon

Ira R.
05-02-2006, 12:01 AM
supertbird89 -

I have nothing against any other vendor - I have bought parts from Bill/SCP with some parts, I've gotten a few things from Victor, and had ordered parts from Rich/MN12 Performance. But this is my opinion and take it for what it's worth.

-Melon

Let's not forget that this is not a knock on any of the vendors that support us. We need them all. Hell, I have a car outside right now that has the fingerprints of all 4 of these folks in it. I'm sure so do many others.

This is simply about trusting the people you trust. If I may make an analogy, I can easily the change the light fixture in my kitchen, but before I do, I'm going to speak to several vendors about their product line, and if one of them happens to have more "hands on" experience then the others, I would tend to pay him more mind. Especially if I have seen his work, say, in my neighbors house.

Everybody here apparently trusts someone, because we all ask each other for advice. It's just a matter of whom you are more comfortable dealing with. And I would hope that whatever part you buy, you ask the same questions of all our vendors in your search for the right answer. Now here's the rub though; what's right for you isn't necessarily right for someone else.

Ira

supertbird89
05-02-2006, 04:00 AM
Ok I am building my engine by myself, and everything about has been done by me. And each cam is made to your aplication he needs to know your plans and what you have at the moment just like any cam. But as you want proof I can't say until Victor is ready. And when the person you are actually dealing is coming from flordia to iowa to vist you and see your work, I dont see that from anyone else. I have talked to. And if you are say why fix what isnt broken you arent actully building a car. You have a car then. And as far as proof once the person tells Victor he can post he info I can post mine. But rest a sure you wont have to just read about it for long you will see it.

XR7 Dave
05-02-2006, 07:55 AM
It looks like many people are assuming that this post was written as some sort of defense against Spinning Wheels selling cams. Frankly, that is the last of my concerns.

My bigger concern revolves around the blatant mis-use of the Tech and Non-Tech forums. At the SCCOA we have forums specifically dedicated to vendor use - the New Products section, the Group Buys and Specials section, the Members Discounts section, and Feedback Forums, but vendors are not allowed to post ad's in places like the Tech and Non-tech forums.

From what I've seen most members don't like to see plugs and advertisements for vendors all over the place. They come to the SCCOA asking questions hoping for other owners and enthusiasts to post non-vendor-biased opinions or information that will help them make good choices instead of vendor plugs and advertisements. We have places for that and everyone knows where those places are. In this spirit, the membership also asked the administration to prevent anyone from putting banners and ad's in their sigs but that hasn't stopped certain people from continuing to post plugs for their favorite vendor whenever they get the chance.

I'm tired of it. I don't like people posting plugs for what I do any more than anyone else. In fact I don't even have a thread anywhere offering cams for sale. But now, some people are posting about Victor offering cams or heads here and there and then others feel obligated to post my name right underneath. Frankly I wish it would all stop. I don't like seeing my name being put out there all over the place either. It's like I'm being dragged down to the same level as what I despise and I have no control over it.

If people want my stuff they know where to find me. The same goes for any other vendor. All I'm asking is let the vendors do their own advertising using the proper venues. As it is certain people are making a mockery of the impartial stance of the SCCOA and I'd like it to stop. We have a great club here, lets not turn it into an advertising venue for anyone.

As for the purpose of this thread, I felt the need to post some answers and information on some of the other threads but that might have been considered "whoring" myself on the open forums which is something I choose not to participate in. Instead I chose to put my response in a forum where people expect to receive vendor input. I will keep my posting in the tech / non-tech forums unbiased and impartial. That is my committment to you and everyone else. I think the general membership would appreciate it if we would all do the same.

David Neibert
05-02-2006, 08:49 AM
Ok I am building my engine by myself, and everything about has been done by me. And each cam is made to your aplication he needs to know your plans and what you have at the moment just like any cam. But as you want proof I can't say until Victor is ready. And when the person you are actually dealing is coming from flordia to iowa to vist you and see your work, I dont see that from anyone else. I have talked to. And if you are say why fix what isnt broken you arent actully building a car. You have a car then. And as far as proof once the person tells Victor he can post he info I can post mine. But rest a sure you wont have to just read about it for long you will see it.

Is your car even running yet ?

David

Micahdogg
05-02-2006, 12:17 PM
Usually the more people know about engines, tuning, part fabrication and installation, etc... the less they can guarantee. As you start to understand the complexities of the entire system, and the error factor that continually pops up for no good reason, the more you learn but also the more you understand that you are still far off from controlling certain situations. That's why "experts" in certain fields will usually be humble and admit that they don't have answers and can't promise anything. Because along with their vast knowledge comes a greater understanding of the area's they still need to master.

Someone who has all the answers, cut and dried....obviously has a lot more learning to do. And you can trust them all you want, but their knowledge will probably come at your expense.

Micah

CMac89
05-02-2006, 12:39 PM
There are other factors whenever trying to select the right cam for yourself. Just like David stated there isn't one cam that is the right one for every combination.

I've seen, about four times, the same motors (same heads, head flow, CI, intake, etc..) make a difference of 30 HP with the same cam as eachother. One of the motors just needed a little more rough of a grind to get the HP back.

You cant make your engine fit the cam profile of a vendors you have to do the exact opposite and make the cam profile fit your engine. This is why trial and error is the way to do it and the reason for Dave saying that only an engine dyno can prove the differences. The only person that I've heard of engine dynoing an SC motor is Coy Miller.

Faith and favorability have nothing to do with how your car is going to run with a cam provided.

XxSlowpokexX
05-02-2006, 12:42 PM
There are many cam middlemen such as mentioned above that have thier own grinds they have certain manufactures make for them. This can be based of a computer simulation, real life testing or just theory. Theory gets you only so far, as does a simulation. Real life testing is the only way to go and not many of us have the money for that. There are many middlemen catering to the v6 crowd now and every one says they have a good cam for a specific application.

Who do you believe?...Well as been mentioned who do you trust? WHo have you heard good feedback from? Chances are whatever cam you are getting has been run through a program to see if it will work out for a specific application. The personality of the cam you really wont know untill you slap it in.

Chances are that weather you go direct to cam manufacturer or to a middleman you will get a good cam for your application.

The choice is yours. I always go direct when dealing with custom cams but that may not be the best route for many. WIthout guidance for yoru intended purpouse..You can indeed end up with the wrong cam for your application

JStudrawa
05-02-2006, 12:53 PM
It looks like many people are assuming that this post was written as some sort of defense against Spinning Wheels selling cams. Frankly, that is the last of my concerns.

My bigger concern revolves around the blatant mis-use of the Tech and Non-Tech forums. At the SCCOA we have forums specifically dedicated to vendor use - the New Products section, the Group Buys and Specials section, the Members Discounts section, and Feedback Forums, but vendors are not allowed to post ad's in places like the Tech and Non-tech forums.

From what I've seen most members don't like to see plugs and advertisements for vendors all over the place. They come to the SCCOA asking questions hoping for other owners and enthusiasts to post non-vendor-biased opinions or information that will help them make good choices instead of vendor plugs and advertisements. We have places for that and everyone knows where those places are. In this spirit, the membership also asked the administration to prevent anyone from putting banners and ad's in their sigs but that hasn't stopped certain people from continuing to post plugs for their favorite vendor whenever they get the chance.

I'm tired of it. I don't like people posting plugs for what I do any more than anyone else. In fact I don't even have a thread anywhere offering cams for sale. But now, some people are posting about Victor offering cams or heads here and there and then others feel obligated to post my name right underneath. Frankly I wish it would all stop. I don't like seeing my name being put out there all over the place either. It's like I'm being dragged down to the same level as what I despise and I have no control over it.

If people want my stuff they know where to find me. The same goes for any other vendor. All I'm asking is let the vendors do their own advertising using the proper venues. As it is certain people are making a mockery of the impartial stance of the SCCOA and I'd like it to stop. We have a great club here, lets not turn it into an advertising venue for anyone.

As for the purpose of this thread, I felt the need to post some answers and information on some of the other threads but that might have been considered "whoring" myself on the open forums which is something I choose not to participate in. Instead I chose to put my response in a forum where people expect to receive vendor input. I will keep my posting in the tech / non-tech forums unbiased and impartial. That is my committment to you and everyone else. I think the general membership would appreciate it if we would all do the same.


Correct me if I am wrong, but where is this list of vendors? What forum?

If I want a cam, where is the "CAM SELLERS" forum?

I see Group Buys (no, I just want one), a LINKS page that gives me really no info about what those links are about (just a damn lot of car related links), a SELLER'S NEW PARTS OUTLET (not used much), and a MEMBERS DISCOUNTS (not much there) forum. None really contain what I need.

Point is, I am ignorant. I don't turn wrenches. I play video games like a mofo and can do taxes like a pro. So if I want to go fast, do I humble/debase myself like certain folks here think because I don't work on my own car? Or do I seek a listing of vendors and services? I have the money, just not the knowledge. I bust my ~~~ as an accountant so I don't HAVE to wrench. So I want vendors to make noise. I want word of mouth (or post of mouth). i want a small banner under your sig that says what you do. How else will I know?

Since we have no set LIST or YELOW PAGE FORUM by TYPE OF SERVICE, what am I left with? Either seeing a random banner or asking who sells what, in the non-tech forum.

Until the SCCoA gets some organization, things with continue as they have been. *shrug*

Unless I am wrong and there is a nice little vendor info link I am missing? Where are my yellow pages sorted by service provided?

Dave, HOW/WHERE/WHEN do you actually advertise? Or are you small enough you don't need to at all?

Btw, I don't agree or disagree, as I know nothing about cams :)

Edit: Also, you're wasting your time typing as well. Same with computers, etc. No "one size fits all" in most products on the market. Should be common sense. Go back to work!

pablon2
05-02-2006, 01:18 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but where is this list of vendors? What forum?

If I want a cam, where is the "CAM SELLERS" forum?

I see Group Buys (no, I just want one), a LINKS page that gives me really no info about what those links are about (just a damn lot of car related links), a SELLER'S NEW PARTS OUTLET (not used much), and a MEMBERS DISCOUNTS (not much there) forum. None really contain what I need.

Point is, I am ignorant. I don't turn wrenches. I play video games like a mofo and can do taxes like a pro. So if I want to go fast, do I humble/debase myself like certain folks here think because I don't work on my own car? Or do I seek a listing of vendors and services? I have the money, just not the knowledge. I bust my ~~~ as an accountant so I don't HAVE to wrench. So I want vendors to make noise. I want word of mouth (or post of mouth). i want a small banner under your sig that says what you do. How else will I know?

Since we have no set LIST or YELOW PAGE FORUM by TYPE OF SERVICE, what am I left with? Either seeing a random banner or asking who sells what, in the non-tech forum.

Until the SCCoA gets some organization, things with continue as they have been. *shrug*

Unless I am wrong and there is a nice little vendor info link I am missing? Where are my yellow pages sorted by service provided?

Dave, HOW/WHERE/WHEN do you actually advertise? Or are you small enough you don't need to at all?

Btw, I don't agree or disagree, as I know nothing about cams :)

Edit: Also, you're wasting your time typing as well. Same with computers, etc. No "one size fits all" in most products on the market. Should be common sense. Go back to work!

http://www.sccoa.com/discounts/

JStudrawa
05-02-2006, 01:23 PM
http://www.sccoa.com/discounts/

Doesn't list by item or service. Would be nice to see the main vendors that touch the SC and what they do. Not just those with a website.

For instance, Supercoupes Unlimited isn't there.

racecougar
05-02-2006, 01:31 PM
Ok I am building my engine by myself, and everything about has been done by me. And each cam is made to your aplication he needs to know your plans and what you have at the moment just like any cam. But as you want proof I can't say until Victor is ready........ And if you are say why fix what isnt broken you arent actully building a car. You have a car then. And as far as proof once the person tells Victor he can post he info I can post mine. But rest a sure you wont have to just read about it for long you will see it.

So what I got from that is that you are still building the engine that the cam you bought belongs to. OK.....that makes it a little difficult to determine how well the cam choice was made.


And when the person you are actually dealing is coming from flordia to iowa to vist you and see your work, I dont see that from anyone else. I have talked to.

You seem impressed by this, yet this sort of thing happens pretty frequently. Just off the top of my head, I can think of three of the vendors on this site that have visited my shop in person to see my projects. I try to do the same with some of my customers, though unfortunately, I don't have much time to devote to traveling.

-Rod

pablon2
05-02-2006, 01:38 PM
Doesn't list by item or service. Would be nice to see the main vendors that touch the SC and what they do. Not just those with a website.

For instance, Supercoupes Unlimited isn't there.


Yes, it would be nice, but the way it is right now you have to go to the site to see what they do. It's not that big of an inconvenience I don't think.

JStudrawa
05-02-2006, 01:55 PM
Yes, it would be nice, but the way it is right now you have to go to the site to see what they do. It's not that big of an inconvenience I don't think.

Well, it's not THAT bad, no. Could be more informational, yes. Again, Dalke isn't there.

How about a VENDORS or SERVICES forum? Like we do with the Knowledgable SC Mechanics?

Start a new thread about each vendor and what they provide and any good feedback?

For example:

Name: JTS XR7 Renovations
Location: Atlanta, GA
Specialty: Deconstruction of XR7's
Other Services: Tire Wear Guages, Rim Rashing, Exhaust Rust Applications

Comments: The guy can tear apart your XR7 faster than any mechanic in the South :)

Just brainstorming.

pablon2
05-02-2006, 02:15 PM
Well, it's not THAT bad, no. Could be more informational, yes. Again, Dalke isn't there.

How about a VENDORS or SERVICES forum? Like we do with the Knowledgable SC Mechanics?

Start a new thread about each vendor and what they provide and any good feedback?

For example:

Name: JTS XR7 Renovations
Location: Atlanta, GA
Specialty: Deconstruction of XR7's
Other Services: Tire Wear Guages, Rim Rashing, Exhaust Rust Applications

Comments: The guy can tear apart your XR7 faster than any mechanic in the South :)

Just brainstorming.


Pitch it to George. As far as why Dalke isn't listed with the vendors, you'd have to ask him.

supertbird89
05-02-2006, 03:05 PM
Ok so i just came out here to say that you now victor has nice cams too, because everytime someone says something about the guy it seems like he gets bashed so i figured i would just state my expierence and opinion so others would know, that werent as knowledgeable or were new. And I have ran the cam but that was in a different engine. And I am in the process of building another. So thats all I am stating. And I would agree with everyone that it is about trust and your opinion. But for some reason it seems like that whenever someone says something about spinningwheels-sc and victor it gets all defensive to dalke. And I wasnt coming out to automatically put dalke down cause I havent worked with him much.

Micahdogg
05-02-2006, 04:23 PM
Supertbird....everyone gets bashed. Coy, Charles, Victor and Dave. It's nothing personal, it's just the human nature around here. So Victor isn't getting ganged up on...he's just not getting special treatment by being excluded from the experience.

“I have the money, just not the knowledge.”

Josh, I hate to come off snotty, but these forums are full of the answers if you would just take the time to read. For instance, if you know that you want a cam….do a search for cams and read everything that comes up. So what if it takes you a week to wade through. See what people are using, where they bought from, and hopefully try to find some before and after performance data. You may have to email people asking specifics. It probably won’t be a 5 minute procedure to familiarize yourself with the topic and make an informed decision.

If you just want to go fast and turn your car over to someone and say “Here…make it faster” then you will be in a world of hurt. You have to educate yourself on the basics in order to get an idea of what direction you want to go with your car. Then take the time to read up on some of the possibilities so you’ll know where you can get parts. Hopefully in this process you’ll be able to recognize and outrageous claim when they are made and won’t have to part with your money due to some of the research you’ve done.

In my case, I looked on these forums to see what cam’s people were using. The Crane 208 was popular. Fortunately for me, I was able to consult a member who was a trusted friend and had performance documentation on his car. He supplied me with part numbers, I contacted Crane and Comp Cams directly for parts. But I couldn’t have just shown up at sccoa.com and waited for cam info to drop out of the sky.

JStudrawa
05-02-2006, 04:37 PM
Micah, I totally understand what you mean. But the problem is I have a very hard time grasping it all. Hence why I ask and ask the same crap. I bug Rick and Mike to death. I just cannot get my mind wrapped around how they all affect each other on all their levels.

In regards to cars, I NEED a structured way of going fast. Or rely on someone else to figure it and apply it. For instance, if Dalke knows how to get to 400+rwhp (he does, he posted it), then why can;t I give him my car and $5k (or however much) and expect 400 horse?

You're not being snotty or condescending at all. I should be able to say "I want this" and send a check. Even if I do all the research AND understand it all, it still comes down to paying someone else to do it. Right?

I don't want cam info. I could care less. Just like when you go to CompUSA and say "I want a PC that will burn DVD's, play Oblivion at 60fps, and rock my house", they go... here's the HP Pavilion XXXX. Credit Card, bamm!

damn it, I just answered myself :( Buying a PC isn't that easy either, as the above scenario requires some questions asked as well.

turbospeed
05-02-2006, 04:52 PM
yeah and then you get a pc that its suppose dto do that , but at the end doesnt deliver.....

but if you plan ahead and build your custom pc you can have it cheaper , faster and a higher quality one ;)

JStudrawa
05-02-2006, 05:04 PM
yeah and then you get a pc that its suppose dto do that , but at the end doesnt deliver.....

but if you plan ahead and build your custom pc you can have it cheaper , faster and a higher quality one ;)

Exactly. I haven't purchased a boxed PC since my old 486sx16 :) What aggravates me the most is that I can build a rig no problem and research PC stuff, it's just that car stuff is a mental block. :(

Randy N Connie
05-02-2006, 05:20 PM
After reading this thread and looking over some of the
RWHP & RWTQ numbers of some of the people posting here.
I am very happy with the price and performance of my
stock cam and heads.:)

Randy

XxSlowpokexX
05-02-2006, 05:38 PM
After reading this thread and looking over some of the
RWHP & RWTQ numbers of some of the people posting here.
I am very happy with the price and performance of my
stock cam and heads.:)

Randy

hahaha that was great

victor malvar
05-02-2006, 06:41 PM
Hello everyone,

I would love to respond to each and every one of you, but right now I am too damn busy. My wife had her hand caught in a Super Coupe door as I was ready to leave for Iowa, Nebraska, California, and Oregon. I will answer this post as soon as I get a moment to myself. Or maybe I will when you are all done posting!!! I will see and meet some of you in due time. Maybe you will have a different opinion of me once you get to know me a little better than you do now. If I could get away more often I would but we have a business to run and this sure can be distracting.

Be safe and take care!
Victor.......

PS I did start a post regarding a "GROUP BUY FOR CAMS" in the proper forum,and just like before, it got hijacked into a post about how great David is. Actually, the first post David wrote happens to be exactly how we feel and do.....or at least 95% of what he writes not everything. David does one some things, I do others. That is just the way it is. Sorry I missed you in Nebraska. Maybe next time....

Mikessupercoupe
05-02-2006, 09:29 PM
Ok so i just came out here to say that you now victor has nice cams too, because everytime someone says something about the guy it seems like he gets bashed so i figured i would just state my expierence and opinion so others would know, that werent as knowledgeable or were new. And I have ran the cam but that was in a different engine. And I am in the process of building another. So thats all I am stating. And I would agree with everyone that it is about trust and your opinion. But for some reason it seems like that whenever someone says something about spinningwheels-sc and victor it gets all defensive to dalke. And I was coming out to automatically put dalke down cause I havent worked with him much.

WHY WOULD EVEN THINK OF COMING OUT TO AUTOMATICALLY PUT DALKE DOWN WHEN HE IS ONE OF THE MOST TRUSTWORTHY, HELPFUL, INFORMATIVE, KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE HERE THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THIS COMMUNITY AS WELL AS VICTOR, BILL AND MANY OTHER SC VENDORS. OH HELL YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PAID FOR MEMBERSHIP! SNAP

supertbird89
05-03-2006, 01:42 AM
why pay for a membership, what do i get out of it a bunch of discounts i dont need cause i get all my parts from one person. Makes sense on that one, or pay to read more horse ~~~~~. Makes alot of sense, all of my friends and there cars all the forums they have out there for other cars that are absoulutly free, and help people just like this. Why waste my money when it can be spent better somewhere else. And who the hell cares if i attack anyone everyone attacks everyone on here and its quite funny. So what do i need to pay for? Exactly, nothing. And if you can trust someone great i found someone i trust and it differs from you, i am happy and so are you. I am just helping other people out here trying to help out a friend selling a part. And as soon as I say Victor or spinning wheels someone has to say Dalke is better. Better why, ITS CAUSE YOU TRUST HIM. And instead of everyone on this site automatically saying dalke when someone says anything about someone else, i wanted to offer an alternative for the other people out there.

pablon2
05-03-2006, 07:33 AM
why pay for a membership, what do i get out of it a bunch of discounts i dont need cause i get all my parts from one person. Makes sense on that one, or pay to read more horse ~~~~~. Makes alot of sense, all of my friends and there cars all the forums they have out there for other cars that are absoulutly free, and help people just like this. Why waste my money when it can be spent better somewhere else. And who the hell cares if i attack anyone everyone attacks everyone on here and its quite funny. So what do i need to pay for? Exactly, nothing. And if you can trust someone great i found someone i trust and it differs from you, i am happy and so are you. I am just helping other people out here trying to help out a friend selling a part. And as soon as I say Victor or spinning wheels someone has to say Dalke is better. Better why, ITS CAUSE YOU TRUST HIM. And instead of everyone on this site automatically saying dalke when someone says anything about someone else, i wanted to offer an alternative for the other people out there.

I would hope you have said your piece already. Could there possibly be any more to say that isn't just reiteration? If you don't like the way things are around here, might I encourage you to frequent the other sites/clubs you speak so highly of? I can only imagine that your reception at these sites is much more sunny than here. We all have our squabbles on this site, but it is fairly humourous and a bit embarrasing for me to read what you are posting. You may become upset when reading this, but I am embarrased for you when I read some of the things you write. I too feel you should pay to complain. If you don't then you come across as someone that complains about the way America is run, but s/he doesn't pay any taxes. Another thing, it seems to go without saying, but then again maybe not, but one should spend some time "in" the club and maybe earn some respect before they are going to be taken seriously. With such a low post count and non-paying status your words will fall mainly on deaf ears. Do what you want, most people do anyhow. They do what they want, not what's best. Sometimes these two things are the same, most times they are not. (George if you have to yank this, so be it. I tried very hard to keep it clean and diplomatic. Besides, it's no more off topic than 95% of the posts in this thread.)

kenewagner
05-03-2006, 08:22 AM
Maybe George should look hard at this thread. In my opinion even Dave orignal post does not belong here. This is a Forum for Group Purchases/Specials. I dont see how a discussion on how cams are selected belongs here. I dont see any,lets get 10 guys together to buy a cam here. I dont see any special prices on Cams here. So what is this thread here for. Everyone loves to climb on these things and side with their favorite vender. Seems our administrator should step in and move the thread to the lounge where paying members can have it out if they so choose. If I was new to this club I would walk away shaking my head wondering why I want to belong to a club where we beat each other up so much just because. I belong because I have got my money back 10 fold in information and help. I am sick of the bickering and I think the venders, Dave Victor and the rest wonder why they should try to bring us all the best in high performace parts and get shafted everytime on these forums. I think most of these post should be deleted and the thread moved to another forum but then that is my opinion

Ken

Mikessupercoupe
05-03-2006, 08:25 AM
why pay for a membership, what do i get out of it a bunch of discounts i dont need cause i get all my parts from one person. Makes sense on that one, or pay to read more horse ~~~~~. Makes alot of sense, all of my friends and there cars all the forums they have out there for other cars that are absoulutly free, and help people just like this. Why waste my money when it can be spent better somewhere else. And who the hell cares if i attack anyone everyone attacks everyone on here and its quite funny. So what do i need to pay for? Exactly, nothing. And if you can trust someone great i found someone i trust and it differs from you, i am happy and so are you. I am just helping other people out here trying to help out a friend selling a part. And as soon as I say Victor or spinning wheels someone has to say Dalke is better. Better why, ITS CAUSE YOU TRUST HIM. And instead of everyone on this site automatically saying dalke when someone says anything about someone else, i wanted to offer an alternative for the other people out there.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE ONLY HORSE~~~~ IS COMING FROM YOUR POST. YOU SAY THERES NO REASON FOR YOU TO PAY FOR A MEMBERSHIP HERE WHEN THERES NOTHING HERE FOR YOU, WELL MAYBE YOU DON'T NEED TO BE HERE ANYWAY. THE PEOPLE HERE DON'T ATTACK EACH OTHER AS YOU HAVE IMPLIED, THE TRUTH IS THESE PEOPLE CONTINUOUSLY HELP EACH OTHER REGARDLESS OF THEIR DIFFERENCE OF OPINION. THESE PEOPLE GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HELP FELLOW MEMBERS AND OTHERS THAT ARE NEW TO THE CLUB.

ANOTHER TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF ANYTHING YOU HAVE POSTED SO IT WILL BE TAKEN AS SUCH (HORSE~~~~). THAT BEING SAID, IF THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE YOU PROBABLY SHOULD TAKE IT TO THOSE OTHER SITES YOU REFER TO. THIS KIND OF HELP IS NOT WELCOME.
STOP HATING

gldiii
05-03-2006, 09:13 AM
Vendor makes a informative post and we end up arguing over who is a member. My only question is why do ANY of the vendors put up with US? Can’t be the money or the glowing praise for great products and services. They must either really love these cars or are complete masochists. I know all them personally, so fortunately I realize it is the love of the car. (Well, maybe some masochism, but only on the weekends.) You people would never act this way face to face with any of these guys/gals!

Let me make a few points. While these are public forums and we welcome everyone whether they choose to be a member or not, if you are just here to watch and participate in a train wreck, these forums are NOT for you. And members, please do not remind everyone who is not a member of that fact. It is not relevant.

Don’t just come in a thread by one vendor just to say your guy is better. I’m sure he is to you, but all of our tremendous number of vendors (what maybe 4-5 vendors, total?) is good to someone or they would not be here. Each one brings something different to the community.

If you have a really good (or bad) experience with a vendor, we have a Feedback Forum for people who actually have had the experience. Post your experiences, read others experiences, ask questions and make an informed choice.

I realize that by closing this thread I am being unfair to the original poster and not giving the other vendors time to respond. Don’t email me about it. I have upset everyone so I realize I am doing a great JOB! LOL Besides, you all know better and I should NOT be using time today to end this.

We at the SCCoA have always prided ourselves on being different than a lot of the other websites that allowing fussin’ and fightin’. It is great to ask even the tough questions of vendors, it is not so great to keep beating on a DEAD issue.