Extrude-hone coolant passages?

Allan

Registered User
Wondering if this would help the heat issues associated SC cylinder heads. Anyone try this?

-Allan
 
I think that would be an opposite effect. I would think letting the coolant flow through faster would make the coolant not work as well. It needs to spend a little time in there to cool it off. Maybe I am wrong but that is why I have never messed with a coolant passage when porting an engine.
Alan
 
Dirtyd0g said:
I think that would be an opposite effect. I would think letting the coolant flow through faster would make the coolant not work as well. It needs to spend a little time in there to cool it off. Maybe I am wrong but that is why I have never messed with a coolant passage when porting an engine.
Alan


Why would smoothing out the passages be an issue. I would think moving the water at a much faster rate would cycle the coolant more causing it to cool faster.

I am not knowledgable but try to learn as much as possible. I had a friend that had a set of heads and Cobra intake extrude honed and it gave him some gains. Now this was few years ago so I dont quite remember what the gains were but I remember it being a positive effect.
 
Dahoopd said:
Why would smoothing out the passages be an issue. I would think moving the water at a much faster rate would cycle the coolant more causing it to cool faster.

I am not knowledgable but try to learn as much as possible. I had a friend that had a set of heads and Cobra intake extrude honed and it gave him some gains. Now this was few years ago so I dont quite remember what the gains were but I remember it being a positive effect.
Heat Transfer is kind of funny that way. There are optimum flow rates and more surface area is almost always better. Think about it this way: if you hold your hand over a candle, you will definitely feel the heat of the flame. But if you move your hand over the flame you will feel much less heat.

If the coolant is moving too fast through the coolant passages, there won't be enough time for the heat to removed from the heads.
 
Kurt K said:
Heat Transfer is kind of funny that way. There are optimum flow rates and more surface area is almost always better. Think about it this way: if you hold your hand over a candle, you will definitely feel the heat of the flame. But if you move your hand over the flame you will feel much less heat.

If the coolant is moving too fast through the coolant passages, there won't be enough time for the heat to removed from the heads.

Hopefully you guys dont see me as a moron for asking and trying to understand why it would not benefit.

If the radiator is there for the cooling effect. why would it not be more benifical to force the water into the radiator quickly.

So hypathetically.......if the radiator cools water to 100 degrees, and the water moving from it flows into a head that heats the water up to 150. Wouldnt moving it through the head at an exceeded rate assist in pulling the 150 degree heat from the head and moving to the radiator faster to be cooled. Wouldnt that assist in the dissipation of heat in the head better.

Senario: Take a pot of water and bring it to a boil. Now take the boiling water and dump it out and refill the pot with water half the temp of boiling and see how long it takes to reheat. The temp of the pot is lowered by the change in water that is placed into. The faster you add and remove the water the more time it would take to boil.
 
I don't think it would be worth the money to extrude honed.
Or the time to hand port the coolant passages. But there is
no but's or maybe's ,it does help to slightly gasket match
heads to manifold. I am not guessing,I have done it a
few times.

There is only so much coolant going to flow though the
coolant system. The thermostat acts as a adjustable
temp controled restricter plate.

Thanks Randy
 
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Dahoopd said:
Hopefully you guys dont see me as a moron for asking and trying to understand why it would not benefit.

If the radiator is there for the cooling effect. why would it not be more benifical to force the water into the radiator quickly.

So hypathetically.......if the radiator cools water to 100 degrees, and the water moving from it flows into a head that heats the water up to 150. Wouldnt moving it through the head at an exceeded rate assist in pulling the 150 degree heat from the head and moving to the radiator faster to be cooled. Wouldnt that assist in the dissipation of heat in the head better.

Senario: Take a pot of water and bring it to a boil. Now take the boiling water and dump it out and refill the pot with water half the temp of boiling and see how long it takes to reheat. The temp of the pot is lowered by the change in water that is placed into. The faster you add and remove the water the more time it would take to boil.
Heat transfer is challenging to understand (well, at least for me when I took it 15 years ago). Worse yet, is me trying to explain something that I wasn't proficient at. I should have left this for someone that practices heat transfer. Ask me about mechanism design or plc programming and I'll be all over it :D

With regards to my last statement of my previous post, I think I might have confused myself with heat transfer of a gas flow instead of liquid.
 
Dahoopd said:
Hopefully you guys dont see me as a moron for asking and trying to understand why it would not benefit.

If the radiator is there for the cooling effect. why would it not be more benifical to force the water into the radiator quickly.

So hypathetically.......if the radiator cools water to 100 degrees, and the water moving from it flows into a head that heats the water up to 150. Wouldnt moving it through the head at an exceeded rate assist in pulling the 150 degree heat from the head and moving to the radiator faster to be cooled. Wouldnt that assist in the dissipation of heat in the head better.

Senario: Take a pot of water and bring it to a boil. Now take the boiling water and dump it out and refill the pot with water half the temp of boiling and see how long it takes to reheat. The temp of the pot is lowered by the change in water that is placed into. The faster you add and remove the water the more time it would take to boil.

Ok, lets try it this way..... when you put water into a kettle, does the water immediately reach boiling or does it take awhile? The heat being applied is constant so we know that it takes a little while for the water to absorb the heat applied to it.

Now lets look at it this way..... the water is flowing through the heads at say 10 miles per hour. Now we know it takes awhile for water to absorb the heat so at this speed of flow the water will "absorb" so much heat.

Now we smooth everything up so the water can flow at 20mph. The rate the water can absorb the heat hasn't changed but its not hanging around as much so it won't be absorbing as much of the heat so the heat stays in the metal which is not what we want.

Also water has a certain rate of releasing heat, so we don't want the water to flow too fast through the radiator, as we want to give it time to release.

So with all this in mind, you want to try to balance the flow of your coolant so it hangs around long enough to absorb enough/release enough heat depending where it is in the coolant system.... too fast and it doesn't absorb enough, too slow and the heat isn't removed fast enough from the metal.

So of course, our cooling system isn't the best out there, and for sure the last thing you want to do is speed the coolant flow up too much. Some guys bypass the heater core as well as remove the thermostat and for the most part all they are doing is hurting the already poor performance of an inadequate cooling system. The heater core actually helps to cool the coolant down and removing the thermostat doesn't allow the coolant in the radiator to hang around long enough to cool down.

As for gasket matching the flow ports from the heads into the intake manifold actually will help a bit, because more volume can get through, AND we are slowing the flow slightly because we're not trying to "compress" the liquid through smaller holes...... and we all know liquid cannot compress so all it will do is go faster which we don't want.

Hopefully that helps a bit ;)

Frit
 
fturner said:
Ok, lets try it this way..... when you put water into a kettle, does the water immediately reach boiling or does it take awhile? The heat being applied is constant so we know that it takes a little while for the water to absorb the heat applied to it.

Now lets look at it this way..... the water is flowing through the heads at say 10 miles per hour. Now we know it takes awhile for water to absorb the heat so at this speed of flow the water will "absorb" so much heat.

Now we smooth everything up so the water can flow at 20mph. The rate the water can absorb the heat hasn't changed but its not hanging around as much so it won't be absorbing as much of the heat so the heat stays in the metal which is not what we want.

Also water has a certain rate of releasing heat, so we don't want the water to flow too fast through the radiator, as we want to give it time to release.

So with all this in mind, you want to try to balance the flow of your coolant so it hangs around long enough to absorb enough/release enough heat depending where it is in the coolant system.... too fast and it doesn't absorb enough, too slow and the heat isn't removed fast enough from the metal.

So of course, our cooling system isn't the best out there, and for sure the last thing you want to do is speed the coolant flow up too much. Some guys bypass the heater core as well as remove the thermostat and for the most part all they are doing is hurting the already poor performance of an inadequate cooling system. The heater core actually helps to cool the coolant down and removing the thermostat doesn't allow the coolant in the radiator to hang around long enough to cool down.

As for gasket matching the flow ports from the heads into the intake manifold actually will help a bit, because more volume can get through, AND we are slowing the flow slightly because we're not trying to "compress" the liquid through smaller holes...... and we all know liquid cannot compress so all it will do is go faster which we don't want.

Hopefully that helps a bit ;)

Frit

Nicely done! I just couldn't find the right words.


the-big-e said:
I have to ask.......:confused:

I'll take the easy one right now. PLC stands for programmable logic controller. PLC's typically run assembly lines, bottling and canning operations, boiler controls, etc. etc. Basically any type of system which requires high-speed control changes. I've programmed PLC's for about 7 years now.
 
I mentioned it in many posts however one should look into the Evans waterless coolant. Great stuff.

It helps in the transfer of heat from metal into coolant. As I said earlier I would NOT port or smooth out any water passages as that would reduce the metals ability to transfer heat. You want a ROUGH surface. More surface area for your coolant to absorb heat from.

And everything from the radiator, hose size, water pump, thermostat will effect how our system works. Of course the fan is there to compliment the system. Keep in mind they all these parts work in sych and a change to any is going to affect the whole.

Think thats about all I can say that really hasnt alreayd been said
 
Just cleaning your coolant passages is going to make a difference. If you have alot of coolant crud and buildup, its going to make your cooling system less effective. Same with the coolant passages around the cylinders inside of the block, and the radiator itself. If you have alot of buildup inside of there, your engine wont run as cool as a clean block. Your radiator could have some restriction inside, reducing its efficienty to cool the engine.

- Dan
 
Just to throw some smokey engineering into it, the ideal temperature for the engine is as hot as it can be without causing detonation. In a properly designed engine, that temp is way above the temp that water under pressure will boil at.

When Evans had their first coolant it could absorb so much heat, that it took a while to get it out, thus requiring slower turning special evans "coolant" pump. It was good to well over 300F without a pressure cap. The currrent coolant they sell has been revised so that it'll give up heat faster and can be used with stock water pumps but does like to have about 6psi of pressure.
 
Where Web?

DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
I mentioned it in many posts however one should look into the Evans waterless coolant. Great stuff.
This sounds like interesting reading. Where can I find out about it, on the web?

Curious 68COUGAR
 
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