SC won't start, Starter problem?

My 95 Bird (5 speed) has been starting and running just fine until last week. I turned the key and nothing, then I turned it again & it started. I drove to my destination, shut it off, came out 2 hours later...turned the key....nothing, turned the key a couple of more times & she started....drove somewhere else, shut it off, came out 2 hours later & it would not startat all! (pushed started with a friend, drove home). Hasn't started since. My question, to make a long story short. Is it common for a starter to stop working that quickly? Or , could it be a ground or wiring problem? How or what should I test? I am pretty sure the starter is original (115K miles on it) & it looks a bit rusty (the part of it I can see).
Any comments would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Jim

I put the front up on car ramps to look at the starter. It is very rusty & looks difficult to remove. Any thoughts
Jim

Sounds like it could be the ignition switch. They have a nasty habit of separating which makes several circuits hit or miss.

Yeah, I'll second that as I've had that problem too. Pull the steering column trim off and you should see the switch on the right side of the column. I put zip ties on mine to hold it together.

SuperDad said:

My 95 Bird (5 speed) has been starting and running just fine until last week. I turned the key and nothing, then I turned it again & it started. I drove to my destination, shut it off, came out 2 hours later...turned the key....nothing, turned the key a couple of more times & she started....drove somewhere else, shut it off, came out 2 hours later & it would not startat all! (pushed started with a friend, drove home). Hasn't started since. My question, to make a long story short. Is it common for a starter to stop working that quickly? Or , could it be a ground or wiring problem? How or what should I test? I am pretty sure the starter is original (115K miles on it) & it looks a bit rusty (the part of it I can see).
Any comments would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Jim

Click to expand...

Does your '95 still use the Starter Relay (aka solenoid) located right behind the battery ? (my '90 did). These are a fairly common problem child and are cheap and easy to change but it certainly could be the starter as well. To test you will need a test light (about $6.00 an any parts store) and a buddy.

The relay should be right behind the battery and will have 2 large (5/16") terminals and one little terminal. The positive battery cable goes to one of the big terminals; the cable going to the other big terminal leads down to the starter.

Assuming your battery is strong (don't assume that, have it tested!) then your test light should show power to the big terminal on the relay that your positive battery cable connects to. If you have power there, then touch the probe from your test light to the little terminal on the relay. Then have your buddy turn the key to the 'start' position and push in the clutch. The light should light up - - if it does, then everything BEFORE the relay is working (i.e. ignition switch, neutral safety switch, etc.) If you don't get power there, then your problem in one of those switches most likely. If you DO have power at the little terminal when the key is turned to 'start' then touch the test light probe to the other large terminal on the relay (with your buddy still holding the key in the start position). If you don't have power there, then the relay is bad; a new one is $10 - $15. If you DO have power there then the relay is good and your problem is either in the starter itself or in the cable leading from the relay to the starter. (The starter does have a solenoid on it as well but a rebuilt starter will come with that already attached). Now get under the car with your test light and probe the big terminal on the starter (friend still holding the key to 'start') and if you don't have power there it's the cable; if you DO have power there it's most likely the starter.

Just go step by step and you will avoid spending money on parts that DON'T fix the car Hope this helps.

replace the starter cylinod .. right be hind the battery .. mine did the same thing .. and i replaced that and it fixed it .. the guy at the parts store told me it was the ignition .. i replaced the eazyer things first

ironworker said:

replace the starter cylinod .. right be hind the battery .. mine did the same thing .. and i replaced that and it fixed it .. the guy at the parts store told me it was the ignition .. i replaced the eazyer things first

Click to expand...

you are right that is the most likely thing (see my earlier answer) but why not TEST before starting to throw parts at it?

Thanks Guys,
I really appreciate the feedback, I will try those steps first, I might not get to it till next weekend, so I'll let you know what I find then.
P.S. I do hear some kind of solenoid or relay when I turn the key to the start position. (klicks twice)
Jim

Just took a look, did not see the starter relay, not sure if its there on the 95's. I know the battery is in good shape, all of my accessories are working just fine, no draw when I try to start it & I tried to jump it with another car. Where else could the starter solenoid be? I did find some type of terminal (block) right behind the battery attached to the high current fuse block, the positive cable goes in & then another cable goes out. Sounds like what you are talking about, but there is no small terminal. Could it be a fuse in the high current fuse box? They all appear to be Ok, also when I take the relays in there out & re-install them they make a relay sound (click-click).
Thanks
Jim

The starter relay is down on the starter, GM style. I don't know why FORD put it down there on the 95s.

Thanks Fred,
took a look & found it. Now I just have to test it.
Jim

My monys on the small wires to the solenoid - at least that's what caused my '89 to act the same way.

The small wire is intact and has a good contact. Is there a way to test the starter without removing it? The car was originally in Michigan, I shipped it over here a few months ago. It is very hot this time of year in Palm springs, and I think the heat is getting to it!
Jim

I assume you've tried starting the car with the lights on, and don't see indications of very heavy current draw (dimming lights) that would indicate shorted cables or starter windings.

"In-car" tests are limited, but you might try putting a test light on the control wire that activates the solenoid at the starter, after confirming you have a good 12V feed on the heavy wire that feeds high current power to the starter. When you try to start the car, the test light should light up, confirming you have a good feed to the solenoid. The solenoid on the starter should also "click" when you try to start the car.

If both the light "lites" and the solenoid clicks but the starter doesn't turn, it's most likely the heavy contacts within the solenoid are burnt or the starter windings are burnt open.

If memory serves, there are only three bolts holding the starter in, and it can be removed without dropping the exhaust system. (Not totally sure about the exhaust issue, but seem to remember it that way). For what it's worth, after I bought a replacement starter and removed the old one on my SC, I discovered that the control wires were defective and that there had been a TSB on the issue that would have saved me the effort had I known. The test light should show if there is a wiring problem at any rate.

Hope this helps,
Bill

One other thing that may seem stupid, but I wonder if you've checked the battery cables at the battery. It's worth the few minutes to take them apart and clean them where they connect to the battery.

I didn't notice you mentioning any other electrical symptoms when you encounter the no-start condition, but it could be something as simple as corroded battery cable connections, particularly if the symptoms started showing up the day after it rained (sounds doubtful in Phoenix tho).

For what it's worth,
Bill

Thanks Bill,
The batttery is in great shape, terminals are all clean, lights do not dim when I try to start it. I will try the test light on the solenoid. Question: With my test light, do I attach the aligator clip to a ground and then touch the control wire with the other end of the test light?

This happened to 2 of my birds....

"terminals are all clean"
What I was going to suggest, but I missed it....

SC Starter Problem

Hi Jim,
Even though you haven't heard from me, I've been thinking about the problem you're having with your SC. I would also have suspected the switch itself first, as I've had several Fords where that turned out to be the problem.
That's if it's just completely dead when you turn it to start. But it sounds like
you have some relays clicking when you turn to start, so thats a good thing.
Try to make sure that its not just from powering up, that its definitely from the start position being energized. Both the solenoid and/or the starter are easier to replace than the keyswitch, in my opinion.
On the test light: Clip goes to ground, then whatever wire you probe(or contact point you touch) that has power to it will make the light light up, showing you its hot. When on the correct terminal, the light should normally be off, when keyswitch is turned to start, light should light up, showing you that the relay is working like it should, relaying the signal to the starter solenoid on the starter.
If it does all this, then the problem is in the starter itself. While they normally show some signs(or noises) of going out, thats not always the case. Sometimes they just go. Usually this is the solenoid itself, not the actual starter motor. If the solenoid is good, but the starter itself is bad, thats when you will see the condition where the lights go dim, because its such a heavy current draw, almost a dead short, through the armature windings.
The manual also mentions to check the clutch pedal position switch, as the starter circuit is dead until the pedals fully depressed. Didn't see anyone mention that 'lil bugger......
From my Ford manual:
Here is the starter test for the symptom, Engine does not Crank:
Lift Car. Ignition Switch off, IN NEUTRAL.Remove plastic solenoid safety cap,pull straight back, do not pull on wire. Wire is hot at all times. Using DC Voltmeter, from starter B+ terminal to housing(ground) voltmeter should read between 12 to 12.45 Volts DC. Is correct voltage at the starter? No>Check wire connections and ground. Yes>Go to B2(manually Crank Starter)

Manually crank the starter. Here's how it says to do that....
First, there are three inputs on the solenoid, S, B+(on top), and M.
Ign.OFF,Trans in Neutral. Connect one end of a jumper wire to the starter B+ terminal.Momentarily touch the other end to solenoid "S" terminal (on left?).
Does the starter motor crank and crank quickly?
Yes> Check connections from ignition circuit to solenoid S-terminal for open or short.
No> Repace starter motor.

Thats the condensed version for ya, straight outta the Ford Manual for '95 SC Thunderbirds.

If its the solenoid or starter, and whether you or someone else does it, the negative terminal will need to be removed from the battery. Do this first before removing starter. Allow 10 minutes of drive time for the EMS computer to remap/relearn itself, whenever the battery gets disconnected.
If its in the keyswitch, you can also use a remote starter. If its the starter itself, you can do as before, push start, to get it going and off to the mech.
I hope this helps some. If you need to use my book, you're welcome to it.If your mech. needs my book, just let me know.
If you need a ride, call me, I'll help you out... ~95 pearlbird

Yeah - What he said

Thanks Dave,
As far as the clicking (relay) sound, that was coming from my amplifier (audio) in trunk. I thought it was coming from under the car, but realized it was coming from behind me. I also thought about the clutch depressing, but when I press it down I see a little fluctuation in my guages, as if it were making contact. Anyway I will print out your manual instructions and give that a shot. That should rule out a lot of things.
Thanks again,
Jim