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commonmanthemes
07-01-2006, 03:31 PM
Hey guys-

What do you think of putting uncoated long-tube headers on an '89 that is stock other than a nice intake, 10% OD pulley, EEC tuner, and a couple drivetrain and suspension mods (kind of irrelevant for this question) and running a true-dual setup without cats or resonator straight back to a pair of Flowmaster HushPower II mufflers?

Think this would be overkill? Or hurt the performance of my mostly stock setup? Or be ridiculously not street legal to where I couldn't drive the car around? Think it would sound good? Just give me your input on the matter.

If I have to add anything, should I add the cats or resonator first? I'd be switching it to mid-length if I did add anything like this, of course. Just wondering which would be better - resonator and no cats, or cats and no resonator?

Thank guys,
Ryan

Tickler
07-01-2006, 04:52 PM
Excessive, just port your existing manifolds or get some stock mustang headers.

commonmanthemes
07-01-2006, 05:02 PM
How do you think it would sound though, the long-tube setup, that is. How loud do you think it would be?

That and I'd only be willing to drop to mid-length Kooks.

XR7inWI
07-02-2006, 01:54 PM
Long tube or even mid length is a complete waste of money at the power level you are at. Ported stock manifolds will work AT LEAST as good as the headers. With the headers you could also actually LOOSE performance at lower power levels because of decreased exhaust gas velocity.

If I remember correctly it was Dave Dalke (XR7 Dave) who had Kooks Mid-Length headers and switched to ported stock manifolds and ran the SAME time in the 1/4 mile with both setups. Also, that was at something like 400+ RWHP I believe. So at the reletively low power level you are at, you would be wasting time and money on the headers because they will do nothing to increase performance.

As for sound.... I doubt the headers will make much difference there either.

All the way around, you are better off spending that money on other upgrades.

nickleman60
07-02-2006, 02:22 PM
you'll get much more performance out of a double i/c and fan,bigger maf and tb for the money the headers would cost not to mention the one mod that really wakes up your car, GEARS!!!

commonmanthemes
07-02-2006, 04:23 PM
I understand what you guys are trying to say about getting better performance out of other mods. At the same time, I'm not going for straight performance. I'm trying to go for a stock setup that is just tweaked a little bit to give it some edge (i.e. intake, exhaust, overdrive pulley, tuning). I was definitely going to put a short shifter, Spec Stage II clutch, and 3.55s in the drivetrain. Tokicos and Eibachs for the suspension. You know? Just a few tasteful things to give the stock platform some extra spice.

Reagrding what you mentioned XR7, with the mid-lengths causing a loss in horsepower. I was kind of worried about that, so thanks for letting me know. What do you think of "S" porting the supercharger in addition to the above mods and then going for mid-lengths without EGR, 2 1/2" Magnaflow cats, to a 3" Magnaflow resonator, back out to the 2 1/2" Flow HushPowers? I had this same setup in my 35th except for with Turbo Mufflers instead and it wasn't too bad. Only thing was the engine idling weakly, like it need the idle speed retuned. Sounded like it was camming. But yeah, I want to not have that problem in this next car and get a little more refined sound than the Turbos gave me.

I should mention that I already have the mid-length headers.

XR7inWI
07-02-2006, 11:07 PM
Reagrding what you mentioned XR7, with the mid-lengths causing a loss in horsepower. I was kind of worried about that, so thanks for letting me know. What do you think of "S" porting the supercharger in addition to the above mods and then going for mid-lengths without EGR, 2 1/2" Magnaflow cats, to a 3" Magnaflow resonator, back out to the 2 1/2" Flow HushPowers? I had this same setup in my 35th except for with Turbo Mufflers instead and it wasn't too bad. Only thing was the engine idling weakly, like it need the idle speed retuned. Sounded like it was camming. But yeah, I want to not have that problem in this next car and get a little more refined sound than the Turbos gave me.

I should mention that I already have the mid-length headers.

Well, if you already HAVE the headers you might just as well use them. As for loosing power with the headers.... I am not sure about that. That comment was pure speculation based on past experience with other vehicles. You may loose a bit down low and gain a bit up in higher RPMs, but like I said I can't say FOR SURE.

As for pipe size... what size are the collectors on the headers? I would recommend dual 2-1/4" to single 3" back to dual 2-1/4". 2-1/2" MAY be overkill and there again could reduce exhaust gas velocities at you power levels. To be quite realistic, even dual 2-1/4" is more than necessary on our cars at mild performance levels but seems to be a pretty popular size. Not only that but the 2-1/4" pipe will be cheaper than the 2-1/2" and if you don't NEED the larger size, why waste money on it???

Porting the supercharger (or having someone do it if you don't have the knowhow or tools) is definately a good idea. That, along with the exhaust upgrades and a larger MAF sensor (76 mm with proper sample tube to match your injectors) and at least a fan on the intercooler (double IC or front mount would be better) would get you headed in the right direction for sure. Larger throttle body is probably not necessary. Others have reported no noticable gains with a larger TB at lower power levels. Quite honestly, unless you are looking to go BIG with the power, the stock TB is fine. I would hold on TB upgrades until you decide to put on a larger blower and do some heads and cam work.

Do some SERIOUS searching and reading around here on all the topics you are interested in and see what others have experienced from the same upgrades you are thinking about. Get as much info as you can before throwing a bunch of money into your car and ending up with a LOT less performance than you expected. Many others here have already been down that road and it only makes sense to learn from their past trials and/or mistakes.
Search through the FAQ forums (general AND members only) and you wil be sure to find some great info. Just beware that SOME of the info in the Member's only FAQ forum is from several years ago and a LOT has changed in the way people are making power and how much power people expect to see from certain upgrades.

It is always tempting to run right out and buy all the expensive goodies right away. But when you find they did not give you the returns you expected you will be frustrated and end up going back to research it in the end anyways. Might as well do the research first and find out what works best. Listen to what others tell you in terms of personal experience and such with these cars. That alone could save you $$$$$$$$ and headches.

Good luck with it and don't be afraid to ask more questions, just TRY to use the search function first. The search on these forums don'e always give you what you are looking for though so then you may HAVE to ask. MOST here are more than happy to help out any way they can.

OK... I am done babbling on now. :o

68COUGAR
07-03-2006, 01:00 AM
What do you think of putting uncoated long-tube headers........Ryan
Using Un-Coated ANYTHING headers is almost the Stupidest Idea I've ever heard. Let me get this straight, you want to spend LOTS of DOLLARS on headers, and want to ENSURE that they DON'T last a long time!!!!! Do you have more Money than Common Sense? If so, by all means buy expensive headers & make sure they will burn out, so you can REPLACE THEM AGAIN!!!! Sure that makes LOTS of sense????? :confused: :confused:

68COUGAR

XR7inWI
07-03-2006, 01:08 AM
Using Un-Coated ANYTHING headers is almost the Stupidest Idea I've ever heard. Let me get this straight, you want to spend LOTS of DOLLARS on headers, and want to ENSURE that they DON'T last a long time!!!!! Do you have more Money than Common Sense? If so, by all means buy expensive headers & make sure they will burn out, so you can REPLACE THEM AGAIN!!!! Sure that makes LOTS of sense????? :confused: :confused:

68COUGAR
While I tend to agree that it only makes sense to get coated headers instead of UNcoated ones.... I think you may need to take a class on etiquette and manners. Why must you insist on belittling people and talking to them as if they were stupid? :confused:

Remember that not everyone knows EVERYTHING (not even you :rolleyes: ) and often times people come here to ask questions and learn the things they don't know. Sometimes people THINK they know but may be incorrect.... A simple correction or explanation would be much better received than rude comments. :rolleyes:

commonmanthemes
07-03-2006, 07:14 PM
XR7-

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, the headers have 2 1/2" collectors, so I don't really have a choice. Hopefully, though, the supercharger port and overdrive, along with the MAFS and tuning will create enough pressure to keep the exhaust flow going despite the lack of backpressure.

68cougar-

Along with XR7, I agree that the attitude isn't really necessary. Plus, you say I need them coated to make them last? Why? I'm not making extreme power or heat and since my SC only has 11,500 miles on it, I don't plan on driving it around in the winter. You tell me what is going to destroy my headers, eh?

mn12sc35th
07-03-2006, 07:51 PM
I can understand why he's saying that. They may not nessecarily just rust apart being uncoated, but they can (and probabaly will over time) corrode and oxidize, which would have them looking like crap. I know if I spent the money for em, I'd expect them to look good. You also may not have high engine temperatures, but lowering them is never a bad thing ;)

You'd be just fine with uncoated ones if thats the way you'd rather go. Were it me, I'd go ahead and spend a little extra for the coating.

I personally would rather have 2 1/2" pipes if you intend to overdrive/port the suprcharger. That kind of thing is more for insurance in my mind (too keep from blowing head gaskets type thing). Hell we had 2 1/4"s behind a 3.8L mustang and they worked pretty well for it. 2" would have probably been cheaper, but we certainly didn't lose power.

commonmanthemes
07-03-2006, 08:45 PM
Yeah, I've already got the headers, so... It's something I'm transplanting from my old 35th. Noticed you wanted to do a T-56 swap. I did too before. Let me know if you actually pull it off. Seems like it'd a lot of work.

mn12sc35th
07-03-2006, 08:53 PM
Well, at this point it's all speculation. But if I go with a 4.6, it'll have to be either a T-56 or a T-45 and they both have their downsides. The T-45 will require fabrication for the shifter and the clutch hydraulics, where an LS-1 T-56 will not. But T-56s are a little more expensive.... so it comes down to what kind of deal I can find on a T-56 when I'm ready for it. :P

But yeah if you've already got uncoated ones.... go for it ;)