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View Full Version : Gearing up for AR kit introduction....



XR7 Dave
07-18-2006, 08:44 AM
With all the talk on here about AR's and such you'd think they've been around forever but the truth is that they have never really been offered to the populace. Every kit that has been made and installed on anyone's car has been a prototype of one form or another and each kit has been somewhat unique as the development of the product has been an ongoing one.

The truth is that development could remain in the ongoing stage for several years at this rate and I think most of you won't want to wait around that long so we are going to stick our necks out, cross our fingers, and offer the kit to everyone and anyone who wants one.

There are going to be some basic disclaimers from the start so pay attention. :)

1) This is a racing product only. No assurances are made as to the legality or emissions worthiness of this part whatsoever. It is made as an off-road, race only part. What you do with it after it leaves SuperCoupes Unlimited is 100% your responsibility.

2) It is not guaranteed to fit under a stock hood. It does sit taller than stock by about 3/4". Experience has shown that it can fit under a stock hood but variances in motor mounts and other factors may change that. End fitment is up to the user.

3) No fuel rail will be provided with the kit at this time. Billet rails are available elsewhere as are the instructions as to how to modify your stock fuel rail for clearance. Assess your ability to complete this work before purchasing the kit. On a scale of 1-10 of mechanical ability for installation, this kit rates 8 or 9. You WILL be required to make modifications to your intake manifold and you WILL have to use some ingenuity to get the job done.

4) You will need tuning! You will have to run at LEAST 50lb injectors and you will make more boost than anyone with an Eaton so you will need tuning. It is not difficult to tune the combination but without tuning all you will do is blow up your motor. This blower will make 18-25psi on an SC and you must have the fuel available to keep up and the timing retarded to avoid detonation. Have your tuning solution figured out before buying because you won't be able to use the kit without it.

Now to the fun part.

We have switched from the 1.7L unit to the 2.0 unit. This blower is longer and therefore sits a little higher than the 1.7L which is why hood clearance is going to be slightly more of an issue that the 1.7L was. If you really want a 1.7L we can make them but I would only recommend that for someone who is dead set on a stock hood and doesn't plan to exceed 400rwhp by much. I feel that 450rwhp is about the limit for the 1.7L on our cars. The 2.0L unit will have more than enough capacity to keep up with any SC motor with up to 60lb injectors which are the largest high impedence injectors available.

Kit production will begin throughout the month of August with the blowers arriving here from overseas sometime in September. There is no gaurantee that the kits will be available before the SC Shootout but they will be available this fall.

Preliminary cost figures for these kits will be $3000 shipped in the lower 48. Please do not compare these kits to any prices you have heard floating around about previous models. These are different blowers with different supporting components.

Please post any questions you have about the offering and if you are seriously ready to buy one when they are available please post below or email me at the email link in my Sig below. If you seriously want one of these this fall you must reply soon because it takes 12-14 weeks to get the blowers and I can't afford to stock a bunch of them. :)

Thanks guys!

David

Nettlesd
07-18-2006, 09:40 AM
Woo Hoo! That sounds great Dave. Thanks for your hard work.

trife86
07-18-2006, 10:10 AM
In the future will there be a kit offered with a modified manifold and fuel rail, for a extrra price and core of course?

Kurt K
07-18-2006, 11:03 AM
3) .... You WILL be required to make modifications to your intake manifold and you WILL have to use some ingenuity to get the job done.

Does this mean that the kit will not come with the CNC mounting brackets that was available with the later 1.7L kits? Also, does this mean that a kit purchaser will also have to modify their existing inlet plenum?

XR7 Dave
07-18-2006, 11:12 AM
In the future will there be a kit offered with a modified manifold and fuel rail, for a extrra price and core of course?

I can't answer that.

XR7 Dave
07-18-2006, 12:08 PM
Does this mean that the kit will not come with the CNC mounting brackets that was available with the later 1.7L kits? Also, does this mean that a kit purchaser will also have to modify their existing inlet plenum?

No, that part of the kit is essentially the same and the same modifications to the intake manifold will be required as were needed before. New intake and return plenums will be provided with the kit.

XxSlowpokexX
07-18-2006, 02:06 PM
Does it come with Vaseline?...





























You know to help the parts fit better..:O)

Do you have a picture of the new blower?....A/R or Whipple?

And a warrenty on the blower core itself or no?

Congrats on getting this going again

XR7 Dave
07-18-2006, 02:33 PM
The complete kit comes with a 1yr parts and labor warranty. This doesn't mean "you blow it up we give you a new one". It means you ship it to me, I ship it to Autorotor, and they determine eligibility. The other parts are warranteed against failure through me and will be repaired or replaced at my discretion.

And if you want one Damon I'll include the vaseline. Just state what size tube you want.

XxSlowpokexX
07-18-2006, 02:40 PM
Ha@!..Thats great that you can get a warrenty on the unit. It makes the package that sweeter a deal. Maybe I'd be interested dependant on how things turn out within the next month. Stranger thinsg have happened..Good luck!

Ricks SC
07-19-2006, 03:23 AM
Hi Dave,
Could you post a few pictures of the actual installed kit and maybe uninstalled so we can see what is included?

Thanks,
Rick

joshbea6
07-19-2006, 08:31 AM
Dave,

Could you possibly list what changes need to be made to the intake so that this new AR kit could be installed? Since my intake is at the machine shop with the rest of the engine, I would like to know so that they can do the job correctly, instead of me making a bunch of "rookie" mistakes.

I also assume that this kit would require the 255 lph fuel pump, or would one need to go higher to support the 60 lb injectors?

I would also like to know what kind of mods would be required for the fuel rail, since I'm new to what this kit requires. You had mentioned that billet parts are available for it, where would one get them, and what kind of ball park figure are we talking ($$)?

I also assume that for the purposes of tuning that an adjustable fuel pressure regulator would be required for this as well?

I'm VERY glad that this is going to be offered in a kit form as I'm definitely "chomping at the bit" to get my hands on one so that I can get the resto-mod up and in progress again!

Thanks Dave!

XR7 Dave
07-19-2006, 12:25 PM
I don't have any of the new kits complete yet so I can't post pics of that at this time. The best pics of completed and installed units can be found here (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=507949&postcount=2) and here (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=522682&postcount=28) and here (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=528354&postcount=1) .


As noted above, each kit so far has been a development and the kits shown do include additional components added by the purchaser. The new kit will be very similar in both fit and function but not identical.

What you get includes:

-2.0L AR twin screw supercharger
-Custom extension
-Extension support
-New inlet plenum
-Modified OE return plenum
-bypass valve
-SC top adapter plate
-and all necessary mounting hardware/hose/clamps.

Modifications required:

Re-route fuel rail crossover at the front of the manifold.
Remove M90 mounting bosses from intake manifold.
Remove or clearance PS pump to waterpump bracket.
Upper IC tube must be cut/modified and collar nut removed from SC top.
Verify hood clearance.

XR7 Dave
07-19-2006, 02:19 PM
Dave,

Could you possibly list what changes need to be made to the intake so that this new AR kit could be installed? Since my intake is at the machine shop with the rest of the engine, I would like to know so that they can do the job correctly, instead of me making a bunch of "rookie" mistakes.

Best bet is to just remove the bosses for the M90. I have attached pictures that show the minimum removal for clearance.


I also assume that this kit would require the 255 lph fuel pump, or would one need to go higher to support the 60 lb injectors?

Your fuel needs will vary. The 255lph FI pump should be considered a minimum for fuel delivery with a blower of this potential. Whether or not it is sufficient for your application is an entirely different matter and falls outside the scope of what I am offering here.


I would also like to know what kind of mods would be required for the fuel rail, since I'm new to what this kit requires. You had mentioned that billet parts are available for it, where would one get them, and what kind of ball park figure are we talking ($$)?

I do not have figures on pricing for billet fuel rails. Again, you'll have to look around. Jerrod makes them but I can't comment on fitment because his design has changed since I had one in-hand. The last one required modification to work.

As for modifying the stock fuel rail, it is required to cut off the loop at the front of the fuel rail that connects the two sides. How you reconnect the two is going to be up to you. The method I have used in the past is effective and simple but I will not be providing this service due to liability reasons. I can source you all the parts but their use is your responsibility. Many people have done this modification even on their M90 equipped cars so if you post the question I'm sure some people will be happy to tell you how they did it.



I also assume that for the purposes of tuning that an adjustable fuel pressure regulator would be required for this as well?

The use of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator has nothing to do with this kit and the decision whether or not to use one is entirely up to you. By tuning I mean you will have to have a chip of tuner to compensate for the 50 or 60lb injectors you will be using and you'll need to have a way to adjust timing, particularly if you plan to run the 20+ psi that the blower is capable of.

XR7 Dave
07-19-2006, 10:51 PM
I should mention that while I am not taking deposits yet, I am taking names of those who are interested. The first run will be for 7 units with more to follow over the winter. If you want one before winter you'll have to be part of this production run.

boostedbird
07-20-2006, 10:01 AM
Dave what about us guys that have the 1.7L I mean from what you are including all it looks like we need is the blower itself, the extention, and maybe the new inlet but from the look of the new 2.0 thats coming out they have the same size inlet so the rear inlet that you made for us should bolt right on. What would our cost be if we just wanted to upgrade to the new 2.0with the extention since we have everything else??? Also when do you think you will have some 10% overdrive JS pulleys being that I have the 3 1/4 blower pulley I think I need more boost.:D Thanks again you are truely a pioneer!!!!

P.S. If us 1.7L guys can get just the blower and extention I want one it would save you time and I can start to do some testing with it hahaha

XR7 Dave
07-20-2006, 11:41 AM
Dave what about us guys that have the 1.7L?

If you want a bigger blower then sell the one you have and buy a bigger one. :) The parts are not interchangeable.

Mike8675309
07-20-2006, 10:49 PM
...
Please post any questions you have about the offering and if you are seriously ready to buy one when they are available please post below or email me at the email link in my Sig below. If you seriously want one of these this fall you must reply soon because it takes 12-14 weeks to get the blowers and I can't afford to stock a bunch of them. :)


Sign me up. I'll send 50% to start when I send the money for the snow system next week. (car craft has me busy this week and this weekend.)

Now about fuel rails... I'm thinking better to assure proper fuel flow at all injectors. Any pointers to those you suggest?

Woops, saw no deposits yet.

XxSlowpokexX
07-21-2006, 06:05 PM
How about for the silly people that would want a 2.4L AR?

XR7 Dave
07-21-2006, 07:19 PM
How about for the silly people that would want a 2.4L AR? It's possible but hood clearance is a real issue. In reality the 2.4L isn't of any real benefit unless you have more displacement than 3.8L or are reving beyond 7000rpm.

I believe that high rpm operation is going to be limited by the ability of the stock manifold to feed the motor at 7000rpm or above so there isn't much point in pursuing that at this time. If a new manifold gets made at some point then the 2.4L will be part of the equation. It's too early to say anything about what that might cost or if it will even get built.

The 2.0L fits better due to a shorter case and has enough capacity to provide over 20psi all the way past 6500rpm without over-revving the blower. That should be enough for most people (and their wallets). :)

shotbirdsc
07-21-2006, 07:27 PM
Dave - If my prognosis isn't too bad when I get the heads off, put me down for a kit if it's real bad -- next year! :o I've got to get off my ~~~ and get this thing ripped apart! At this point my hood is off, wipers off and ic and rad is out and all the fluids are drained...It's a start. The bright side is all the bolts are coming off pretty easy.
Eric

Jason Wild
07-23-2006, 05:00 PM
Dave,

Would you say that a cowl hood thats about 1" to 2" will clear it with out a problem on a 89-93 Bird. Just trying to find out how much of a cowl I will need want to kept it stock looking.;)

XR7 Dave
07-23-2006, 05:14 PM
Dave,

Would you say that a cowl hood thats about 1" to 2" will clear it with out a problem on a 89-93 Bird. Just trying to find out how much of a cowl I will need want to kept it stock looking.;)

1" is more than enough.

V6Sprout
07-23-2006, 05:50 PM
any estimate on HP on a stock motor? exhaust upgrades of course, but basically stock heads and cam? I am thinking along the lines of my mustang which already has a SC motor in it, and has great exhaust compared to the SC. But curious as to HP guess on a stock bottom end and heads.

seawalkersee
07-23-2006, 06:03 PM
What is the deal with the oil lines on the front? Its kind of off the subject, but mine does not have that nor does it have the resevoir (Im assuming) that is shown next to the top.

Chris

XR7 Dave
07-23-2006, 06:09 PM
any estimate on HP on a stock motor? exhaust upgrades of course, but basically stock heads and cam? I am thinking along the lines of my mustang which already has a SC motor in it, and has great exhaust compared to the SC. But curious as to HP guess on a stock bottom end and heads.

Basically no. I am not going to state any specific amount of HP. The blower makes boost, that's all it does and so what boost you can run and what results you get out of that boost depend on too many different things that have nothing to do with the blower particularly when the motor is stock.

The benefits of the twin screw are well documented and in this case the blower has more capacity than any Ford 3.8L motor can handle. What you do with that boost capacity is up to you. :)

XR7 Dave
07-23-2006, 06:11 PM
What is the deal with the oil lines on the front? Its kind of off the subject, but mine does not have that nor does it have the resevoir (Im assuming) that is shown next to the top.

Chris
That is because you have a Whipple and that blower doesn't require an oil recovery system.

seawalkersee
07-24-2006, 07:20 AM
That is because you have a Whipple and that blower doesn't require an oil recovery system.
Hmmm...good to know...

Chris

XR7 Dave
07-25-2006, 12:30 AM
I am putting final count together and I can add people for the rest of this week, then on Monday the order will be finalized. Just FYI. If you've emailed me about it or posted here then I have added you to the list and you will receive a confirmation email on Friday. I'll be sending a generic email asking you to reply then with a "yes or no" so that the order can be placed. No reply = no order so if you don't get an email please let me know.

No money will be required or accepted at this time but your word will be considered a binding agreement.

Thanks!

rzibilske77
03-06-2007, 10:38 PM
can an individual purchase this kit at anytime or does there need to be a group?

XR7 Dave
03-06-2007, 11:10 PM
These kits are not currently available for sale. If anything changes I'll be sure to post information where everyone can see it.

rzibilske77
03-06-2007, 11:13 PM
These kits are not currently available for sale. If anything changes I'll be sure to post information where everyone can see it.

bummer....thx Dave!

sinhumane
01-09-2008, 07:04 PM
any update on these kits? i'll be interested in one next summer if you can get a 2.0 kit together. let me know your price, even if you have to make just one. :)

can you also order and include fuel rails, and injectors in the price?

Melon
01-09-2008, 07:18 PM
I'm not sure that Dave is doing the fuel rail anymore. Mostly for liability reasons on his behalf. You'll haveta make one yourself :D This is last I knew by the way - things could have changed Tyler.

-Melon

XR7 Dave
01-09-2008, 07:53 PM
I'm not doing these kits anymore (as stated above).