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quick35th
10-09-2006, 11:19 AM
Guys I need help troubleshooting a problem with my Expedition, I experianced a no start condition saturday morning in my '99 Expy Eddie Bauer with 5.4L. I thought in was the starter as it would not crank over but come sunday when I got back in it to work on it it cranked right over and started right up. Now this morning when headed out to work I get in my truck and it wont crank anymore. The only difference between the sunday morning when it did start and saturday and this morning is that it was cold outside both days it did not start and it was nice and warm sunday morning. What could be causing this to happen? It has started in colder temps the last few weeks without any issues... maybe a slight shake after startup but that quickly would go away. Here is what it is doing, it does not click at all, all the lights on the dash come on, and the radio wont work. Even if I turn the key backwords to turn the power onto the radio it wont come on. Now watch later on this afternoon when I get off work it probably will start right up. Sunday morning I did check the connections to the battery and the starter itself and they looked fine except the possitive terminal on the battery had a very slight dusting of past corrossion on it left over from when the factory battery took a dump. In its place is an Optima Red top battery that has a good charge in it, I knwo this cause I tried jumping it saturday morning and it made no difference.

The temperature outside saturday and monday morning was probably in the high or low 50's and sunday it was probably in the upper 60's to low 70's when I got to it.

Any and all help is greaty appreciated guys! Good thing I still have my 35th around so I can still make it to work.

Shane

birds4us
10-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Check the positive cable where it mounts to other things, like the power distribution box, and wherever else it is connected. Also check all of the connections of the ground side as well.

doug93sc
10-09-2006, 02:46 PM
Check the positive cable where it mounts to other things, like the power distribution box, and wherever else it is connected. Also check all of the connections of the ground side as well.

Good Call 'birds4us...my friend had the same truck a few years ago with the same issues. His was under warranty so I didn't fix it for him BUT from what I remember they replaced the wiring from the battery to the starter and also a few fusible links that were overheated. See if you can find a TSB for it as he was told it was a common occurance.

quick35th
10-09-2006, 03:03 PM
Good Call 'birds4us...my friend had the same truck a few years ago with the same issues. His was under warranty so I didn't fix it for him BUT from what I remember they replaced the wiring from the battery to the starter and also a few fusible links that were overheated. See if you can find a TSB for it as he was told it was a common occurance.

I'll have to check that out Doug. One thing I am hoping that it has nothing to do with is the PATS system.

Shane

shotbirdsc
10-09-2006, 04:43 PM
I have a similar issue with my Lincoln LS when it is cold, it doesn't happen all the time but a real ~~~~ when it does happen. I have a flashing LED light on the dash which flashes fast when it doesn't recognize the key. After a couple of in and outs with the key it works again and it can work flawlessly for a half a year before it does it again.

One option if available on your truck is to put a remote start on it and disable the PATS system,

quick35th
10-09-2006, 05:15 PM
Guys guess what, when I got home from work in the heat of the day today it started right up without hesitation. I stopped by my mom's place on the way home so I could get my spare key. If it turns out to be the PATS then maybe I could have Dalke go into the computer programming and turn the PATS off.

Shane

Ddubb
10-10-2006, 06:18 PM
Ive been having a very simular problem on my mom's 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII .. in the morning, the car cranks .. but just wont start. All the lights and gauges come on, and it doesnt fire up. Then after a little while of cranking, the fuel gauge goes all the way to the top. Fuel pressure checked out okay with a tester. Only code pulled was that the fuel pump circuit was open. Not a clue whats wrong. Then I go out later and it starts.

Im thinking either crank or cam sensor .. oh wait, its not an SC. :D

- Dan

quick35th
10-10-2006, 08:08 PM
I think I may have found my problem guys. After I got home and started the truck just to make sure it still started I got under it and started blasting all the power lines going to the starter, any ground I could find, and the starter solenoid with PB Blaster. After doing so I found what looks like the power wire going to the starter actuator had green crud on it. So I soaked the crap out of it with the PB Blaster. Later on tonight I am either going to attack it again with the spray stuff I got yesturday or hit it with some water and baking soda. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it works out. I took some pics of what I found.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_2610.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_2608.jpg

Shane

birds4us
10-10-2006, 08:12 PM
Yea, that may have something to do with it.

quick35th
10-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Well guys as I predicted when I got home from work in the heat of the day it started right up without hesitation and without me tweeking anything from how it was this morning. The only thing that has changed is outside temperature. I took my Expedition to Advance and Autozone yesturday. Autozone tried telling me that on start up my starter was pulling 247 amps but when I told that to Advance they sorta thought that Autozone was nuts lol! So I had Advance test my Optima battery and it tested fine. So I got a wire brush and cleaned the battery terminals and the terminals on the starter and then sprayed a cleaning solution on both the battery and starter. So guess what happens this morning..... the f-er still does not start :( :( :( :( :( :( :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :rolleyes:

Shane

birds4us
10-10-2006, 11:00 PM
Is your antitheft light on steady, off, or blinking when it happens?

quick35th
10-10-2006, 11:22 PM
When I hold the key to the "run" possition like when trying to start my truck the little red "theft" light stays on until I let go of the key. If I just turn the key to ignition all the lights light up and everything acts normal just as it should. Really the only difference between morning and afternoon beside temperature is that in the morning there is moisture in the air unlike when its nice and dry out during the day.

Shane

birds4us
10-10-2006, 11:25 PM
If the PATS light is not blinking or on, it should not be a problem with that system. I would check the wire connections from the battery to where it attaches at the passenger side cowl for a loose or corroded contact.

quick35th
10-10-2006, 11:48 PM
Pat would you happen to have any idea where the starter relay is located at under the hood of my Expy?

Shane

birds4us
10-10-2006, 11:55 PM
Off the top of my head......no. Follow the positive cable off of the battery to see where it goes.

quick35th
10-10-2006, 11:56 PM
Thanks Pat for all your help, I appreciate it a lot. I refuse to give in and take it to a dealer. I dont trust anyone but myself to work on my own cars.

Shane

birds4us
10-10-2006, 11:58 PM
I used to work for a dealer, does that count?:D

quick35th
10-11-2006, 12:08 AM
LOL! Maybe sorta. Just that I am tying to avoid paying threw the noise to have it fixed.

Shane

quick35th
10-11-2006, 08:30 AM
This morning when I went out to my truck it start right up, granted it was a little rough and the engine was idle kinda rough at first which I think has to do with the computer needing to relearn everything since I had the battery disconnected last night.

Shane

TwoToneThunder
10-11-2006, 10:56 AM
good ol lincoln tech coming to the rescue