Those who voted against Ford were right...

[Treys92]

Well, I posted a thread asking for opinions on the Explorer vs. Grand Cherokee a couple of weeks back. I ended up getting a good deal on the explorer and bought it.

2 weeks and 200 miles later...it needs a new motor. I was driving down the road and all the sudden the motor just died...no shudder, no noises, nothing, just died. I figured it was the fuel pump, cuz it cranked and cranked and cranked, just wouldn't fire.

So I get it towed to an area Ford Dealer and it sat the weekend, they looked at it today and gave me a ring to be the bearer of bad news. I was right, the fuel pump did take a crap...0 fuel pressure. But they noticed the engine was cranking very quickly...then the bad news came.

0 COMPRESSION ON ANY CYLINDER! :eek: .

They came to the conclusion that when the pump went out, the motor backfired and jumped timing, and bent the valves to ~~~~~. I've never heard of that before, anyone else?

I'm so pissed about this, but i'm screwed, no warranty from the dealer i bought it from, so i have no option but to shell out money to fix it. Any advice?

-Trey

[91supacoop]

i dunno where you are, but in NYS there is a 30 day lemon law when buying from anything except a private party. Might eanna look into something like that for your state. Sucks about the motor though....

[quick35th]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Trey,

I am not familar with your Explorer vs Grand Cherokee thread so bare with me for a second. What engine and year Explorer did you buy? How many miles? I have never heard of this happening before either. I think if I were you I'd check the compression myself to make sure the dealer is not feeding you a pile of crap in the first place then go from there.

Shane

[TwoToneThunder]

id get some buddies and push it right back on there lot with a sign look at this crap i bought here that lasted 200 miles

[Treys92]

Supa-

Lemon Laws in the state of IL only apply to brand new cars. Unfortunate and stupid yes...

Shane-

I bought a 97 SOHC 4.0 Eddie Bauer Explorer. It had 160,000 highway miles on it. Had it checked by my family mechanic before buying, and it passed with flying colors, other than a small exhaust leak. Usually when the tensioners for the timing chains go on these things, you can hear the rattle in plenty of time to get it fixed before major damage will occur. This engine ran as quiet as any explorer i've heard. It just seems it was a freak accident. I can be almost sure, just by the way it was cranking, that there is no compression, it was like the motor was just free spinning, very odd. And this is not the same dealer i bought it from, they are very respectable and doubt they would ever lie about something of this sort.

TwoTone-

Beleive me, that crossed my mind a few times. After talking with them today, we are trying to work something out...after that i'm going to sell it outright and try to at least break even and buy a damn chevy with a nice dependable 4.3 in it.

I'm done with this OHC ~~~~. My rant is over...suggestions, comments, told you so's all welcome.

-Trey

[brandonhgt]

Wow man that really sucks! I have never even heard of something like your problem before. At least I voted for the Jeep------just playing! :D

Seriously though, used 4.0's must be pretty common by now and if you can pluck the motor yourself or have a friend do it you could save some cash. Might be worth it since if I remember right you said the explorer was in great condition otherwise.

good luck

[chazzwozzle]

i was one who warned you that those year SOHCS are ticking time bombs with their fragile timing chain tensioners. very unfortunate but im not surprised at all. if it were the OHV v6 then it would have been a different story since those engines are bullet proof, albeit a bit noisy.

[quick35th]

Trey,

If you have the ability to swap the engines and if the rest of your truck is in excellent shape then I'd do it yourself. It cant be to bad to do anyways, especially compared to an SC lol!

Here is a '97 4.0L for your Exploer on ebay for cheap. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Ford-Explorer-4-0L-SOHC-Engine-FREE-S-H-06I090_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ010QQi temZ200038996830QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Shane

[Treys92]

Yea, I guess I should have listened to you guys. Its just you never ever would have been able to tell. The body and interior are flawless, so I'm going to go the cheapest route and get a SOHC motor from the boneyard, get it put in and sell it privately, try to at least break even on it. According to KBB, in good condition, it is still worth $5200. If i can get $4500 for it, I'd prob. come close to breaking even...we'll see how much a used motor and install will cost me. I can't do it myself, I don't have the tools, time, or know how for that.

-Trey

[Treys92]

oops...double post

[scbird1]

Ah Trey that is a bust. First I would find out if that engine has a interfearance or non interfearance valve train. Some engins such as SC engines could lose our timming chain and cause no dammage to the pistons or valves. I don`t know this engine but if its just a timming chain or chain`s
Im sure you could do that. Im almost positive the chains are gone and thats why no compression, IE valves are open and not moving. Hopefully your engine is a non interfearance. Could someone here shed some more light on this? Thanks, Mark

[quick35th]

What did it do when it died? Was it harsh and noisey or did it die a quiet death? I would think that if pistons were slapping valves then you would hear and feel it but what do I know, I've never blown a motor up before. Any smoke out the back when it happend?

Shane

[phyxius]

imho stay clear of the 4.3 they aren't much better.i've owned them and worked on plenty of friends ones and would never get one.up here you see lots of 4.3 listed in the traders as having reconditioned or new motors for a real good reason.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

fuel pump went bad and caused a backfire that caused the chain to skip and bent all the valves to have zero compression in every chamber?

That just really seems crazy....

Think back...When the car just died...And you tried to restart it....Did it crank RREEALLY fast or normal?

[CMac89]

I have never heard of this before. If it was a detrimental backfire then you would definitely hear it. There's no relevance between a fuel pump going out and teeth jumping on the timing sprocket.

I could be wrong, but I smell a rat.

[Treys92]

Car died a quiet death...in fact, so quiet, i thought the motor was still running and the trans fried. Honestly, it was that quiet. No backfire that i felt or heard, no pistons slapping, nothing...As far as the interfearance/ non valve train, I am not sure. But i have read before that if the timing chains in these motors go, it can cause a lot of damage, that leads me to beleive that is what happend. When i tried starting it again...there was no abnormal noise at all...it just cranked extremely fast, so i know there is no compression. Like I said, the shop I have it at is respectable and I don't beleive they would lie about this.

Either way, the motor will have to be yanked to do the timing chains, as one is on the back of the motor apparently. And from what I have heard, it is cheaper to buy a junkyard running motor and drop it in than it is to buy all the parts and have the labor done to replace the timing chains and anything else damaged.

-Trey

[442guy]

man I'm sorry hence the warning about zero clearance motors.
Some OHC designs,,,,like this one... have zero clearance between teh valves and piston so when the timing chain or belt is out of sync it becomes very expensive as in need a new motor. Many SOHC and DOHC are zero clearance and suffer the same problems pistons hitting valves when a timing chain or belt breaks.. sorry to hear the news

[scbird1]

Here is a place to start your search. He might have one for your year and I think its close to you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-00-Ford-Ranger-4-0-4-0L-Engine-Motor-71240E_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ011QQi temZ320018780710QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

[Parker Dean]

There is another caveat to interference engines. Sometimes the design places the valves where they hit the pistons right on the edge and collapses the top ring land, pinching the ring into place. This leads to low compression due to poor ring seal and accelerated bore wear since the ring can't move like it needs to. IOW such engines frequently need a complete rebuild after a loss of cam timing.

[7birdslater]

Thats a tough one. 160 grand on that motor is doing good with the timing problems they were known for. We have a 2004 Explorer with 4.0 and I hope they worked out that issue a bit better in the newer versions. Dealers here have a mandatory time period where they have to warranty a vehicle. I still dont know about the whole fuel pump causing the chain issue though.....:confused:

[CougarXR/7]

Hey Trey...............go to the U - Pull - It in Blue Island on Tuesday. That's half price day in the truck lot on 141st. Call Reliable and see what they are asking for a take out motor.

Did you replace the hood on the T - Bird?

[Treys92]

Blue Island is pretty far from my hometown, and even farther from where I am at in college right now. Thanks for the info though. Oh, and that wasn't me with a smashed in hood, I had the black 94 SC.

like I said, I don't have the time, tools, or knowledge to pull a motor and drop a new one in.

The dealer i bought the car from is doing what they can to get me a good deal on a motor and install. Obviously they can't do it for free...no warranty. So far they have guaranteed me an installed price of $600. I called a U Pull It that he recommended and they wanted $850 for a motor with 100,000 on it...I called him back and he said he could get it for much cheaper than that. So I'm waiting til tommorrow to hear back from him. We'll see...I'm just about done buying fords though...except for Thunderbirds.

[TbirdSCFan]

I have never heard of this before. If it was a detrimental backfire then you would definitely hear it. There's no relevance between a fuel pump going out and teeth jumping on the timing sprocket.

I could be wrong, but I smell a rat.Dunno if its a rat, but it sure doesn't smell right... I don't buy the explanation about a backfire w/o some proof; sounds far fetched. There should been a lot of bad noises coming from the engine to do what was described. :rolleyes:

[89xr7-sc]

You may trust them but after wrenching on alot of the explorers I doubt what the say happened actually did. Yes the 4.0 sohc is known for bad timing tensioners, seen and replaced alot of them myself. I have seen these engines running fine with the tensioners almost completely gone. Unless you had the music up way to loud you would have heard or felt a back fire. A back fire that knocks it out of time? Really really doubt that. The only way I see this as remotely being possible is if the teeth of the timing gears had been worn almost completely down and you had broken tensioners. No offense but it sounds like you need to look for a better shop....

[Conan56]

Ive got to say it

I told you so

To me an explorer is like a throw away vehicle If I got one really cheap Id drive it till it died But when it needed anything major Id just buy something else Those motors are notorious for having problems

[7birdslater]

And im sure you allready planned to, but replace the cam tensioner components and inspect the gears and chains on the used engine before you install it. Our 04 V6 Explorer will wax my SC off the line... other than the cam chain issues, its an impressive motor.

[Treys92]

I'm probably going to have a friend put it on his car hauler and take it to the place that will do the motor swap. I will have them check it to make sure they agree with what the others had said prior to purchasing the used motor and having them go ahead with that.

Either way you look at it, it won't be cheap. The engine has to be yanked regardless, and depending upon the damage, it would likely cost more to have it fixed than to just buy a used motor...the saga continues.

-Trey

[chazzwozzle]

And im sure you allready planned to, but replace the cam tensioner components and inspect the gears and chains on the used engine before you install it. Our 04 V6 Explorer will wax my SC off the line... other than the cam chain issues, its an impressive motor.

your sc must be running like crap then, cuz there is no way in heck my 90 sc will get waxed off the line by an exploder.

[Jacob_Royer]

1st thing... I know you have already heard this a hundred times but should have bought the jeep explorers are JUNK!....The only SUV out there thats worse is the s-10 blazer and i'd almost rather have one with a 4.3 over a exploder....

I don't see how a explorer will wax an s/c.... Buddies got an 01 sport trac 4.0 3.73's K&N and its pretty damn fast but.... Off the line he gets like a 1/2 car on me (because of my tire spin) and then i jump like 5/6 cars on him and up around 60mph start pulling away like he isn't even moving anymore... I will say that they are pretty pissed off for what they are though (newer 4.0's)and they hook up really good(at least sport trac's do).. My z-71 is a 98 350 vortech 3.73's and cai and its pretty quick but up to 70mph or so its dead even with the sport trac and somtimes he can get a jump on me out of the hole(much better traction) thats saying alot for a 4.0.... Z-71 wieghs 5100lbs i imagine a sport trac is close to that... (not sure)

[7birdslater]

I didnt say it would hold the SC through the quarter mile, but the few times I played with the wife while leaving from work at the same time, she gets out in front of me a good car length before I start a slow gain. Thats plenty of length to merge in front of me and by then its too late. My SC Does run like crap. Far worse than the Explorer will ever run.

[TwoToneThunder]

the v8 04 explorers are really quick
my dads is very impressive it would give my sc a run for its money

[brandonhgt]

Our 04 V6 Explorer will wax my SC off the line... other than the cam chain issues, its an impressive motor.

Would the 02 v6 4-door explorer have the same version of the 4.0? If so I spanked my brother's explorer out of the hole several different times easily with both my sc and our jeep. From a rolling start (20+mph) it was even worse. After searching through some reviews it seems like the Explorer accelerates 0-60 in the low to mid-8's and pulls a low-mid 16's 1/4 mile time.

You should be able to beat those numbers easily.

[Phillio99]

hey trey, That sucks about the explorer, if plans change and you need any help wrenching or anything let me know ill be back from IU over thanksgiving and for winter break. Hope bradley is going well.
Phil

[David Neibert]

Sorry about your bad luck. I thought you were buying this from a private party, not a used car dealer. I would never buy a car with that many miles from a dealer, especially one with no warranty.

I would suggest spending the least amount possible to get it running, and sell it.

David

PS: Same thing could have happened with the Jeep too.

[Treys92]

Phil-

Thanks for the offer, but I'm just gonna get it fixed in the shop. The dealer I got it from is helping me out with paying for some of it. They damn well should.

Dave-

Congrats on the awesome new times for both cars, sweet to see that AR car run like a bat out of hell.

The dealer I bought it from is a respectable place, been around for a long long time. I have family, friends, even my girlfriend bought a car from them and never had any problems. Like I said before, I had the car all looked over and it was in very very good condition. Motor made no noises, definately no timing chain rattle, burned no oil, didn't smoke, it ran like it was new. Trans shifted smoothly 4 hi, lo, and auto worked great. There wasn't a single thing that would have given away that this would happen. It was just a freak accident, to have that and the fuel pump go at once...what are the chances? I swear it could only happen to me.

The plan is to get a used motor dropped in, drive it while its up for sale, and try to break even on the sale. I Blue booked the private party value for the actual milage on the vehicle and the milage on the motor i'm looking to buy and averaged them out. The average came out to be about $4,700 dollars and that is with giving it a rating of "Fair". The vehicles actual condition once the motor is in will be between good and excellent. Its a fully loaded Eddie Bauer (every option except the 5.0), and really was a very well taken care of vehicle. I figure if i can get around 4,500 - 5,000 from it, I won't be too pissed off, that is close to breaking even.

After I sell it, I don't know what to look for, kinda fed up with the explorers, but I think an AWD 5.0 Explorer or Mountaineer would be ok. Blazers I hear mixed reviews about and i'm not that big of a fan of them anyway. Jeeps I still don't know about. It has to be 4x4 but trucks are usually too expensive...any suggestions for around 5,000 give or take 500.

thanks,
trey

[quick35th]

You could find a nice 97-98 Expedition with some miles on her. With gas prices where they are right now the resale value was killed on them and now they ca be had rather cheaply.

Shane

[seawalkersee]

No way...I have NEVER heard of this happening. Im not one of the guys on here who are going to say.."I had a buddy who had a friend who had an explorer". Plain and simple. I worked in a FORD shop and have done MANY of the services to add the restrictor to the tensioners and NEVER...NOT ONCE saw one that had been taken care of have an engine go bad. Now if these knuckleheads took out the plugs...It would crank fast. Did they do that? I would venture to say something is amiss. Jeep stands for Just Empty Every Pocket and I have spent many a dollar fixing those "bullit proof" POS vehicles. Never will I own one.

On a different note, when you saw the engine, was it together? Did you try to start it when it died and that was when you noticed it was cranking fast? Did you not notice it until the dealer told you? Its been said a few times here....Somethin aint right...

Chris

[Treys92]

Chris-

I know it doesn't seem right. Wouldn't it be making noise while cranking if the timing was off and pistons were hitting the valves? I didn't hear any noises when it died, nothing at all. It's almost like the motor is just free spinning. I wasn't there when they did the compression test, so I don't know exactly what they did. But, when I tried to restart it after it died, I did notice it was cranking extremely fast, I thought it was odd, but I was still in shock that my 2 week old vehicle had just broken down and I didn't really try to make sense out of it.

I should be going to put the Ex on a buddy's hauler tonight and taking it to the shop that will perform any necessary work. Seriously considering 'accidentally' forgetting to lock down the straps...:eek:

I do want this other shop to give me a second opinion and hopefully they won't charge a ~~~~~~~~ "diagnostic fee" like the damn stealership does. They shouldn't, as they know any work needed will be done at their shop.

Shane-
High milage expeditions, just by doing a few quick searches, are still in the 7-9000 price range...a little higher than i can afford out-right. I don't want to make payments as I'm still in school :o .

-Trey

[seawalkersee]

Let us know what you find. I am seriously skeptical about the fast cranking. If it ate the valves on one side of the head, it would not free spin. You still have three other cyls that SHOULD by all rights have pressure. Now...if the fuel pressure regulator came apart and had parts that got stuck in the injectors, THAT could cause the cyls to wash down and a HUGE loss of compression. But for all 6 cyls to go at once when there are two different chains....and one is on the rear of the engine...Im not buying it.

Chris

[quick35th]

Trey,

I'd listen to Chris on this one. Something is deffinately not right with this situation. Take your truck to someone else for a second oppinion. Maybe its something really simple.

Shane

[TwoToneThunder]

yea i definitely dont buy it
and when u get it running run it into the nicest car on the lot lol :rolleyes:

[Treys92]

Chris-

I can't beleive that all 6 cylinders would go at once either. It sounds fishy to me, but I have everything lined up just in case it does need a new motor.

So here is what the deal is so far. Going right after work to put the car on my buddy's trailer and take it to the shop where the work will be done. They are going to see what they think is wrong with it, and start tearing it down, if necessarry. If it is true that a new motor is needed, I have found a replacement with 102,000 or so miles on it for $600 bucks. Not too bad i guess.

The shop quoted me a labor price of about $500-$600 if the motor needs to be pulled and a new one dropped in. If it is something else, they are going to have to get me a new estimate once they figure it out.

Any one out there experience a similar situation with this motor or a similar one? It just doesn't all add up to me, but I don't know why this Ford dealer would lie, they have a good reputation and I've never heard of problems with them before. Maybe they just really don't know what the hell is going on?

-Trey

[seawalkersee]

I have seen a guy condem a good engine that had a locked up AC compressor. Its not that they are not good, but that they are unsure of the problem. I am leary about there being no sound when you tried to start it AND losing all compression in all six cyls. Not saying it could not happen, but I dont think so.

Also...in the event you need a new engine, BE SURE to stick new tensioners on it before you put it in...you would feel like an arse if it happened again right after a new engine was put in. Also, be sure when they say they checked the compression that you get readings. Is there "NO compression at all in any of the cyls? If so, I wonder if it does not just have a broken flex plate or something of that matter. You know...like the engine is not spinning. I have seen people do stupid things at a shop...I used to call some of them friends but after seeing some shoddy work AND THEN blaming me for thier mistakes (they were high...need I say more) to get out of hot water. That was a shop with a good rep as well so things happen.

Do keep me posted.

Chris

[scbird1]

Trey, When i first got Your 94 SC I had a problem with the check engine light comming on once and awhile so I took it to the dealer where I bought all my new cars, FORD so I go there to make sure they had someone to work on this car as its not the norm. They checked it out on the Machine after having the car a day more then was promised. They call me and tell me that it will need a new camshaft sensor assembly= $375.00 plus laber to start. I ask to look at the computer readout sheet. Its says cam sensor fail. I call my local Napa, $27.00 and will have a cam sensor today. The guy turns to me that did the work on it and says so what all has been modified on this car?
I said its all stock and how much do I owe you. Where are my dam keys. I trusted them and wrote several letters to Ford that im sure fell on deaf ears. Hopeing your problem is minor. Mark J.

[TwoToneThunder]

http://www.bc4x4.com/videoclips/default.cfm?play=14

after watching this id buy a jeep anyday lol

[7birdslater]

You can see what they thought of Jeeps anyway :)

[TwoToneThunder]

yea
nothing i wouldnt attempt in a chevy either :rolleyes:

[quick35th]

What were they spraying on that tire to get the beed to pop back out after it caught fire? That was pretty cool.

Shane

[TwoToneThunder]

lighter fluid

[quick35th]

lighter fluid

Really? Where they pumping air into the tire at the same time or no?

Shane

[TwoToneThunder]

no when it ignited it expands so rapidly it pops the tire back on the rim
i usually see it done with either

[quick35th]

I'll have to remember that trick. Might come in handy someday.

Shane

[442guy]

I had a Cherokee and it was a beast off road in stock form Nothing like a jeep for true off road toughness, I pulled out many an exploder, bad suspension design.

[91supacoop]

lighter fluid

anything that'll flash will work also... carb cleaner/brake cleaner/starting fluid

[Treys92]

Update:

Went and got the explorer from the stealership last night. What a good time...my buddy forgot his come-alongs, so we started by getting a 20 foot running start at the ramps, got the front wheels about 3/4 of the way up the ramps. One person steering/braking and two people pushing. Then we proceeded to use one ratchet strap (the other one was binded up at the moment) to try to pull it the rest of the way up and onto the trailer. Good time, especially when it had rained all day and kept right on raining until we had her loaded. About an hour and some change later, we were loaded and on our way.

Got to the shop, mechanic wasn't there, but the shop manager was. I talked to the mechanic earlier in the day on the phone and he didn't seem to think it would need a new motor, just by hearing what I had to say. They are in the process of putting in new lifts, and will start to diagnose the car on monday. So I won't know anything for sure until then. I cranked the motor just to let my buddy hear it...still no noises, just very fast cranking...so confused.

I'll keep yall updated, keeping my fingers crossed that a new motor is not necessary.

-Trey

[442guy]

I have a knowledgable friend that told me these motors have known problems with the Intake gaskets and timing chain tensioners that can go at any time, that may be the problem, if the tensioner is not working busted ETC the valves may be open when you are at TDC that would explain the easy cranking and no compression, an easy first check for the mechanic to diagnose.Also problematic are leaky intake gaskets, ford had a "secret recall on " but after 70K miles they won't repalce either problem . A service bulliten of some sort was issued on these problems.

[seawalkersee]

Oh...I forgot about the intake gaskets... Have them replaced. They are EASY to do though...you need a drill to take the SCREWS out of the upper and replace them. I am still skeptical about no compression what so ever from needing a fuel pump.

Chris

[frdlvr30]

14 years of Ford experience and 9 years of 4.ol sohc experience tells me the jackshaft chain or tensioner broke. Crankshaft drives the jackshaft, jackshaft drives the cams. Jackshaft chain or tensioner broke and the cams jumped time, bending all of the intake valves and probably 3 or 4 of the exhaust valves. Ive seen it happen twice. Both were high mileage vehicles. The jackshaft tensioner on the 1997-2000 sohc motors were PLASTIC.....Dave

[Treys92]

Dave-

do you find it hard to beleive that all this happened and I didn't hear the slightest noise that was out of the ordinary? Its not like i had the music up or anything, i was just crusing along. the motor quit so quietly that i didn't even realize it died....at first i thought the trans went. I just don't know...crazy ~~~~ with these zero clearance OHC motors...

-Trey

[frdlvr30]

cant really say what kind of noise would happen if any. the jckshaft chain and tensioner are both pretty small, about a third if the size of the cam chain and tensioners (completely different tensioner design though). Your not going to "hear" the valves bend. That happens in a split secaond after engine timing is incorrect. I dont know that you would hear the jackshaft chain/tensioner break, since everything else im sure is intact. Im not trying to put down your new vehicle, however, and this is coming from a man that lives and breathes fords, if you want something dependable-get rid of it. You think the engine has problems. I can tell you that it is just a matter of time before you have problems with the 5R55E transmission that is in that vehicle. 1997 was the first year for both the 4.0 sohc and the 5R55E five speed automatic. There were many recalls/service bulletins for both. Dave

[Treys92]

Dave-

Thanks for the info. I don't plan on keeping it very long after I get it back. I'm going to put it up for sale right away and drive it as little as possible. But, the whole reason I got it was to park the bird and keep the mileage (and snow,salt, road grime) off of it. So it will be driven back and forth to work (2 miles), stores, and the occasional trip back home (100 mile round trip).

If there are so many problems with these, why does the value of them stay so high? I looked up the value for my Ex even with this high of mileage, the private sales are as follows: excellent: $5,675 good: $5,160 fair: $4,490. From what I've seen in the area, these prices seem to be pretty close to the going value...hopefully it'll stay that way. The truck is between good and excellent condition.

Anyways, my search starts once again for a 4x4 SUV or x-cab truck...I'll be steering clear of explorers/mountaineers unless they are 5.0 equipped.

-Trey

[442guy]

My advice,, get a Nissan Pathfinder the 3.0 or 3.4 liter are practically bulletproof.
Suspension and trannsmissions are also very tough,

[bowez]

I also find it hard to believe wouldn't hear at least pistons clanking off the valves, though I think the same thing happened to my moms 00 Camary when timing belt broke. Really the only way to make sure though is take the heads off.
Though I had a similar issue after doing a head job on my dads F150 300 I-6, some junk got in the valve guides.

[quick35th]

Like I said before get yourself an Expedition. I got my '99 with 85k on it in July '05 and now its got just over 108k on it. Its got the 5.4L in it and 4R100 transmission. Runs like new and its never broke on me before, very dependable. I got mine at a steal for $8,900 too :D Here's a picture of my Expy.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/PICT0026.jpg

Shane

[Treys92]

Shane-

I do like the expy's and they seem to be a solid ride. But here are the issues: 1) my budget does not go that high, i'm working with 5-6000, unless I sell my SC, which I have been contemplating. 2) What kind of gas milage do they get? I heard it was around 13 mpg, which is what steered me away from the durangos (that and dodge transmissions).

442guy-

I'll look into those, most of the import SUVs are a bit higher in price range, but I'll do some research.

-Trey

[Jacob_Royer]

I'd take a durrango over a explorer anyday..

[Treys92]

Yea, the durango starts to look better and better everyday. I'd rather replace a trans than a motor...

-Trey

[quick35th]

Trey,

I get on average around 13-15mpg city/highway in my Expedition which is right around what a 5.0L Explorer would get.

Personally I'd stay far away from the Durango. My friends parents had a '00 5.7l Durango that they never took off roading or abused and the transmission and transfer case died right around 87k miles. I know numorous other people with Dodges and they all have had transmission problems. Stay away from Tahoes and Yukons as well as they have tansmission problems as well.

Shane

[Treys92]

I'll take that advice. Seriously don't know what I'll get, Its a little while off yet still.

UPDATE

The shop called me this morning, here is their diagnosis. There is good fuel pressure, so the other shop lied about that. I was a little groggy as I just woke up when they called...so here goes. The right side timing chain is connected and is moving. The left side shows no compression. There is no way to diagnose why there is no compression unless I want to sink money into tearing it down...which I don't. We discussed the fact that the motor is zero clearance. The mechanic is sure it has jumped timing, and in turn bent the valves, resulting in no compression.

The cheaper route is for me to get a used motor ($600) and get it installed by this shop (5-$600). I am looking for prices for the updated chain guides and oil galley plugs that are supposed to reduce the problems these motors have.

So, bottom line, I bought the motor already, its getting dropped off for free at the shop sometime this week. It has a 30 day full parts and labor warranty on it. So we'll see what happens with that.

-Trey

[quick35th]

Good luck Trey. Hope it turns out good for you.

Shane

[7birdslater]

I hate that this happened to you. Probably could have gotten a good head and stuck it on your motor, but you would still have a 160K mile bottom end, which is high miles no matter what brand of engine. It does seem crazy to fix it, update the tensioners, then get rid of it so it doesnt break again. I bet it would serve you for many trouble free years with a good engine......:)

[Treys92]

My friend keeps trying to talk me into keeping it, since I am putting the money into it. But, what if the trans goes next? I don't want to deal with all the crap...so it was probably a mistake to buy a high mileage vehicle in the first place, but it seemed like it was in such great condition. Oh well, we all screw up.

-Trey

[NRTrackStar]

I kind of agree that you should keep it. You put a few hundred miles on it-tell us what else is wrong with it. I understand that a tranny is an expensive thing to fix, but trannies also usually just don't blow up. If there isn't any sign of trouble, I'd say that it's still good. You said yourself that the truck was in excellent shape, regardless of the mileage. A dealership isn't gonna be able to buff out 160k miles of abuse, so apparently it was cared for. You're already in this too deep to get your investment back, so I'd just drop a new motor in and keep driving it. It sucks that this happened, but I think that you just got really unlucky, and really wouldn't consider this truck a lemon because of it.

[NRTrackStar]

And regarding 5.0 Explorer mileage, I've never seen less than 15 from ours. Norm is around 17 or 18 so, considering that it doesn't require premium, I see little difference in the fuel costs between and Explorer and an SC. On the highway it'll only do around 21 or so, but around town it's plenty acceptable. I see no reason to own something like an Expedition unless you're towing on a regular basis, as an Explorer is just as nice and much more economical.

[quick35th]

I see no reason to own something like an Expedition unless you're towing on a regular basis, as an Explorer is just as nice and much more economical.

Your just jealous that I have this big old SUV and your stuck with a SHO as a daily driver :eek: :p :D

Shane

[seawalkersee]

That is a tad more like it. I was wondering how it could do that. Be sure you have them replace the tensioners on it and you should be golden. I would also get a new set of intake gaskets for it so you can be sure that you are slick in that area as well. I dont think that ALL six valves are bent on one side. If the chan broke, the valve train would stop where the least resistance is. Look at any head that is OHC and you will see that it is true. Now...did it smack a valve? Maybe, but it didnt smack all 6 of them. But if it slipped, they will need to dig deeper to see what all it will take to fix the problem...in your case, could even mean a pison. I would go with the new engine and just drive it. You will see...you will like it.

Chris

Oh...and just FYI...ALL Mountainers were v-8s. Almost all 5.0s were AWD. You could get 2wd, but it had to be ordered.

[Jacob_Royer]

guy i work withs explorer was mint condition with 140k and the tranny crapped out completely with no warning what so ever... That cost $2100! the explorer wasnt worth much more than that in my opinion..

[19TbirdSC91]

yeah, a while back i was going to try and get an explorer, i would never get one with the V6...5.0L AWD eddie bauer is where its at...lol

and sorry to hear about the motor issues...quite unfortunate.

[Treys92]

UPDATE

Well, I was supposed to get the explorer back yesterday, but things changed. Got a call from the shop this morning. They got the old motor out and were in the process of transferring things over to the new-used motor. They pulled the oil pans to get the sender unit out. And what do you know, they find large chunks of plastic in the pan of the new motor. Think it came from the chain guides???? I vote yes...:mad:.

So I talk to the people at the salvage yard who told me the motor was in perfect running condition when i bought it. They said oh, well we don't know what happened, it ran fine before. They are now on their way to pick up the motor, and decide whether or not they will be fixing it or getting me another one.

Needless to say, I am now completely fed up with this stupid ~~~ explorer.

-Trey

[19TbirdSC91]

damn, that sucks....sounds like the story of my life, one thing after another.

[Jacob_Royer]

If you want a good 4x4 ford buy somthing full size ie: f150, expedition.... otherwise you are going to get a POS.. Same with s10 blazers and durrango's... A 90's 2 door tahoe might be a cheap option...

[frdlvr30]

4.ol Sohc = Junk....trust Me....i Know

[Gerry Rider]

Something really fishy here. I've owned 3 Explorers , a '94 Eddie Bauer and currently ''97 and a '98 AWD's, both 5.0. All have been great trucks, good enough so I really believe that if you buy a truck you buy Ford.
Gerry

[Treys92]

Something really fishy here. I've owned 3 Explorers , a '94 Eddie Bauer and currently ''97 and a '98 AWD's, both 5.0. All have been great trucks, good enough so I really believe that if you buy a truck you buy Ford.
Gerry

Nothin' fishy about it this time. The guys at the salvage yard are just idiots. Its going to get taken care of, no charge to me, it just pisses me off that I have to go through even more crap. I mean I've been without the vehicle for like 3 weeks now.

The 94 had the OHV V6, and those motors are very dependable. Same with the 5.0s. After I deal with all this crap, I'll be looking at some 5.0 Explorers or Mountaineers. Tahoes I have thought about, as well as expeditions. Most pick-up trucks are out of my price range and the insurance jumps up on those too.

The saga continues....again....

-Trey

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Good luck man..Hope it all works out for you..Junk yards tell you it works saying 100% MB garuntee if it dont..However the labor is on you

Lucky you didnt find iut the hard way

[7birdslater]

A 100K mile old style tensioner 4.0 is GOING to have chunks of it in the pan. It might run great just like that, hence the advice to put new chains and guides on it before you install it. Junkyards are not going to go into a good running engine to diagnose things the might be a problem later on, hard to expect them to. Its funny to hear Super Coupe fans call a 4.0 OHC junk........ We are the ones driving Junk designs (motor mounts, head gaskets, harmonic balancers) some of which dont get to 100K miles, and for some reason we love it. Hard to explain.;)

[Treys92]

Its funny to hear Super Coupe fans call a 4.0 OHC junk........ We are the ones driving Junk designs (motor mounts, head gaskets, harmonic balancers) some of which dont get to 100K miles, and for some reason we love it. Hard to explain.;)

True...but, Jumped timing on the SC motors doesn't spell junked motor. :eek:

-Trey

[TwoToneThunder]

buy a 2000 ford taurus ive changed a belt trans filter and a coil on plug unit in the 40k miles ive added to what was on it
there nice cars to eventully the trans will go but i have nothing but good things to say

[seawalkersee]

True...but, Jumped timing on the SC motors doesn't spell junked motor. :eek:

-Trey

No...but a lunched balancer...or HG...or intake gasket...can, and will...Need I go on?

Chris

[Treys92]

No...but a lunched balancer...or HG...or intake gasket...can, and will...Need I go on?

Chris

True...but hey, we've come to love these cars for one reason or another. Right now, I'm not feeling much love for the explorer :p . That may change soon, just like the times when I've got no love for the SC...that usually doesn't last long.

-Trey

[Treys92]

Update

Well, the Explorer is STILL in the shop. The second used motor came in on this past wednesday. Before the delivery driver left, they dropped the oil pans...and what do you know, the chain guides were laying in peices in there AGAIN! So they refused the motor. The shop is actually as pissed off as I am, so they called the salvage yard and chewed them out.

That is the second used motor that they gave me that is junk. So, they have a supposedly "GUARANTEED" good motor coming from a 99 Explorer from Missouri. It'll be here on Wednesday, just in time for the shop to close its doors for thanksgiving, meaning I won't have the truck until like the 28th of Nov. And that is only if this motor isn't crap too.

If the chain guides are crap on this one, I'm just going to tell the salvage yard to give me a partial refund and I'll buy the parts necessary to fix it and pay the labor. I'm tired of this merry-go-round ~~~~. I mean I am planning on having the updated guides and tensioners put on anyway, but I don't want to accept a motor that could have been run when out of timing and caused damage.

Honestly, what are the chances that i get two peice of crap motors? I think this explorer is cursed :eek: . Hopefully the third one works out.

-Trey

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Sorry man....THAT SUCKS!

[Parker Dean]

Reminds me of a claim I looked at several years ago.

It was an AWD Aerostar with a 4.0 and the contract holder somehow killed the engine while on vacationing in South Texas from Ohio. The extended warranty company sent a salvage 4.0 and the tech installed it only to find that it would not crank. Turned out to have a bent rod.

The shop yanked that engine and the salvage yard exchanged it. This time the tech was a bit more savvy and tried to roll it over before installing it. This one wouldn't complete a rotation either, nor did the next one, or the one after that.

By this time the vehicle has been down for several months, the family went home but the father remained and claimed he lost his job because of the issue (who was paying the hotel bill I don't know). I got sent out on the fourth or fifth engine to verify that it too would not complete a rotation.

[seawalkersee]

Good parts come from MO...:D

Chris

[Treys92]

Good parts come from MO...:D

Chris

Damn do I hope you are right Chris. I've got my fingers crossed for this one.

I'm a Construction Management major and I keep thinking I should quantify my (lost productivity + lost gas costs + lost insurance costs + additional maintenance to the Bird) and turn in a Request for Equitable Adjustment into the salvage yard and just say "hey, take it off the cost of the motor and we'll call it even". This is a messy situation and I just hope that it ends soon.

-Trey

[seawalkersee]

Geez...one of my best friends older brother was a major in that. His first job RIGHT out of college (I think he even got the assignment before he graduated) was a 3.6 million dollar job in FL. I was sorry before but now...you will look back on this while you are driving your company vehicles and laugh...

Chris

[Jacob_Royer]

Update

Honestly, what are the chances that i get two peice of crap motors? I think this explorer is cursed :eek: . Hopefully the third one works out.

-Trey

Its a explorer what do you expect :) they are all junk.....

[Treys92]

Geez...one of my best friends older brother was a major in that. His first job RIGHT out of college (I think he even got the assignment before he graduated) was a 3.6 million dollar job in FL. I was sorry before but now...you will look back on this while you are driving your company vehicles and laugh...

Chris

Haha, this industry has its advantages. 3.6 million...thats just a little guy there.

-Trey

[scbird1]

97-98 wernt those ones that were nicknamed the Ford Exploder?:eek: Hope this mess ends soon for your sake.
My 98 E150 has givin me no trouble at all except for a trans line that was rubbing under the engine. I think when you go out to look for a car these days you realy need to research the perspected vehicle for gremlins because the manufactures are makeing us the guinney pigs. Mark

[seawalkersee]

Haha, this industry has its advantages. 3.6 million...thats just a little guy there.

-Trey

Not 15 years ago it wasnt...Then again...it may have been billion. It WAS in FL. All I know is that it was a HUGE project and he is head of a construction company today. And his house is larger than three of mine combined....without the shop.

Chris

[Treys92]

Not 15 years ago it wasnt...Then again...it may have been billion. It WAS in FL. All I know is that it was a HUGE project and he is head of a construction company today. And his house is larger than three of mine combined....without the shop.

Chris

Mark-

I thought I researched it pretty well, but I failed to realize the years that the 4.0 SOHC and the 4.0 OHV were offered. And I didn't know about the timing chain issue before I bought it. Live and learn.

Chris-

I wouldn't doubt that it was a big job, wasn't trying to come down on you or your brother. It is a lucrative business if you are in the right area, and Florida is definately the right area.

Maybe your brother could put a word in for me at his company :p . Do you know who he works for, just out of curiosity?

Anywho, I hope to get this resolved soon, the whole thing is starting to stress me out, as if school and work and the rest weren't enough. Keep on keepin' on.

-Trey

[scbird1]

Dont feel bad as if anyone here had done a lot of research on the SC they would have know what they were getting in to. I just one day stopped at the dealership and came home with a new truck and if it had been a 97 they had timming cover issues that let antifreeze into the pan:eek:

[seawalkersee]

They were originally called exploders because of the front end problems...NOT the engine problems. Like I said before...Some were good and ran for MILES. From the time of thier introduction until sometime in 2000, I had MAYBE seen one that needed an engine from failure. And TRUST ME...They had several thousands sold in the midwest that came through the stealership doors.

Chris

[Still Crusin]

:eek: Man, this whole thread is scaring me. I own a 98 4.0, SOHC with about 140k on it now. Overall, been a fairly good vehicle. About the biggest problems I've had was having to replace the rearend and a/c.
I didn't know about these tensioner problems. I know the drive belt tensioner was crap. Had one fall to the driveway after I had replaced a belt and had just started it up.

Chris & fordlvr30: You say I should replace the timing chain tensioners? How much work is involved with that? I read a couple of posts that mentioned "updated" ones. Are there better ones than the OEM ones?
Also sounds like I should replace the jackshaft? What's degree of difficulty for that job?
Anything else? Only thing I remember recently was a letter from Ford about the speed control recall.
I change my own oil and have never noticed any plastic chunks draining out. Is that something you'd only catch by dropping the oil pan?
Also I've had some intermittent HIGH IDLE problem, where it's jumping up to around 3k rpm. Suspect vacuum leak, but a leaky intake gasket was also mentioned. Could that cause the high idle problem?

Thought has crossed my mind about trading in the Explorer, but it has been a decent vehicle AND I realize the whole high gas price issue has made SUV's a less attractive purchase. But, I want to get my use out of it for the amount of money I had to sink in repair costs. I bought it used about 5 yrs ago when it had about 33k miles on it.

Trey, what an ordeal. Thanks for keeping us posted. Hope your situation gets better soon

[seawalkersee]

On a scale of one to ten...replacing the tensioners in the vehicle is about an 8. It would be a ten, but there is not any welding or cutting involved. You have to open the front of the motor to get to the front tensioner and I cant remember if you can do the rear one while it is in the vehicle. The oil would probably not show any signs of the tensioners while draining. I would think that the pieces would be too big to drop out the hole. Your high idle problem could very well be caused by the intake gaskets. But if it is on startup and goes away, I would think the spring in the IAC motor is getting weak. You can thump it with a screwdriver handle and if it goes away, take it off and shoot some carb cleaner in it and let it sit. Drain it out after an hour or so and stick it back on. Oh...the updated tensioners are OEM. They have updated numbers that have drain back check valves in them to keep the pressure on the chains when the vehicle is off. If you pull out the plug in the front of the drivers side head, there should be a long plastic piece in the hole. It should be about 4-5 inches long. If its in ther e then the recall for the tensioners have been done. I would consult with your stealership when you go to get your new cruise control cable.

Chris

[Treys92]

Just got off the phone with the shop. The motor (number 3) that came in from missouri was in great condition. They finished putting it in yesterday, then realized there was a slight difference in wiring harness, due to the fact that the motor was from a 98 Explorer. Swapped over the harness, cranked her up and she started with no problems. Slight vac leak was causing an odd idle, they tracked that down and now its running like a top according to them.

I am going to pick it up this afternoon. Hopefully it IS running as well as they say. I'll be putting the Bird away for winter, and I am very close to posting it up for sale here. I hate to see it go, but right now I guess it doesn't make sense for me to have 2 vehicles.

I've been looking at a truck as a replacement for the Bird and Explorer. I test drove a nice 99 GMC Sierra fully loaded, loved it. May be test driving a 97
F-150 soon.

I don't know how all this will pan out, but being in college, I really only need one car. It needs to be a dependable one and something nice. The Bird is great and has been dependable and definately fun to drive. But Illinois winters and torquey RWD cars don't mix well. I've been fortunate enough to have no snow since the Explorer has been in the shop, but I hear it is coming soon (Friday?).

I figure once I graduate, I can get back into the SC game. That is what I plan to do, whether I sell the current one or not.

-Trey

[Treys92]

Final Update:

Got the explorer back, has kinda a rough idle on cold start...probably a bad intake gasket. There is a slight death rattle until the motor warms up...eventually this one will die too. I took it from the shop straight to the dealership and left it there. Took home a 99 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT, ext. cab, 4x4 all options, 116,000 miles, I don't know what will end up with this situation but I like the truck so far. Haven't made any decisions yet.

Oh and on a side note, the starter on the Bird took a crap in the parking lot of the repair shop. So I pushed it onto their lift and they'll be getting to that tommorrow most likely. So, that kinda pushed me over the edge and it is probably on its way to being traded. All in all, a good day turned terrible.

-Trey

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

There is a slight death rattle until the motor warms up

Did they chaneg the chain idlers?..Good luck man I dontthink I have heard anyoen having this type of vehicle luck in a long while

[Treys92]

No, they didn't. I would have been the one that would have had to pay for the parts and approximately 13 hours of labor. I was so deep in this vehicle, I wanted a running motor put in so I could just get rid of it.

My luck with vehicles has been terrible as of late. The bird has been very dependable, and the starter isn't a huge deal, it just pushed me too far. I can't afford to keep doing this, I'm better off fincancing a vehicle with a warranty. I hate to say goodbye to the Bird but its just time for it. Thanks to everyone for giving me advice and wishing me well through this whole thing. What a pain...I love cars but man sometimes do I hate them.

-Trey

[TwoToneThunder]

dump the explorer off and keep the bird youll be happier in the end

[Jacob_Royer]

Sierra have a 5.3? any SB will be a million times better than a explorer those things are junk.....even a 4.3 v6 would be better than any v6 they put in explorers.

[quick35th]

Thats some terrible luck you are having Trey. Hopefully the chevy product works out for you.

Shane

[Jacob_Royer]

So far i love mine other than some mystery water leak under the passenger side dash when it rains really hard (must be some sort of drain in the cowl vent clogged up just noticed it today).. Had to spend a couple days with a 99 f150 (4.6) this week and it made me like the chevy even more.. my 350 does at 2000rpm what the 4.6 does at 3500rpm...

[scbird1]

No, they didn't. I would have been the one that would have had to pay for the parts and approximately 13 hours of labor. I was so deep in this vehicle, I wanted a running motor put in so I could just get rid of it.

My luck with vehicles has been terrible as of late. The bird has been very dependable, and the starter isn't a huge deal, it just pushed me too far. I can't afford to keep doing this, I'm better off fincancing a vehicle with a warranty. I hate to say goodbye to the Bird but its just time for it. Thanks to everyone for giving me advice and wishing me well through this whole thing. What a pain...I love cars but man sometimes do I hate them.

-Trey

Trey, the starter on the bird was new. Im willing to bet that you lost the small push on wire on the starter solinoid. Sorry to hear of all the problems your having. Things will get better no matter what you do. Mark

[Treys92]

Mark-

When I talked to them this morning, they told me it started up fine and that there was a loose wire on the solinoid. I had the starter replaced anyway, because there was a bad spot on it. For the past 4 or 5 months every once in a while it would just give me one click when trying to start it the first or second time. It always started by the third try, but I figured what the hell.

Interested in buying the car back? Its had lots done to it since i bought it from you...

-Trey

[Treys92]

So far i love mine other than some mystery water leak under the passenger side dash when it rains really hard (must be some sort of drain in the cowl vent clogged up just noticed it today).. Had to spend a couple days with a 99 f150 (4.6) this week and it made me like the chevy even more.. my 350 does at 2000rpm what the 4.6 does at 3500rpm...

Jacob-

Yea, it has the 5.3. I like it a lot, my dad has a 99 silverado, almost identical minus the 4wd. His truck has always been very dependable. I've researched this truck and it doesn't seem to have many problems besides the fuel sender unit and the fuel pump which will be replaced before I buy it, if I go that route.

Do you know of anything else I should be aware of or have checked?

Thanks,

Trey

[Phillio99]

Trey, That's one of the cleaniest SC's Ive ever seen, would be a shame if you got rid of it but you have to do what you have to do...
Phil

[scbird1]

I would love to buy it back but right now my work has all but dried up and I might be moving so it looks like I might be selling a car or two. Good luck to you Trey and try to find the car a good home. Thanks, Mark

[seawalkersee]

I think you said it was 4X2? If so there were few problems with them The 4X4s had the clunk in the t-case when you stuck them in four low. If it did it too often, it would stick in 4 low and that SUCKED when we were trying to drive across a field to get a deer:D . All in all, I dont like the GM because of the smaller leg room in the front. The GM has more room in the back seat but then I dont spend time back there. There was one or two more engine things (piston slap) but I think most of them were on the six litres. Oh....and if the tranny has a lag in it while shifting....BE WEARY OF BUYING IT.

Chris

[Treys92]

I think you said it was 4X2? If so there were few problems with them The 4X4s had the clunk in the t-case when you stuck them in four low. If it did it too often, it would stick in 4 low and that SUCKED when we were trying to drive across a field to get a deer:D . All in all, I dont like the GM because of the smaller leg room in the front. The GM has more room in the back seat but then I dont spend time back there. There was one or two more engine things (piston slap) but I think most of them were on the six litres. Oh....and if the tranny has a lag in it while shifting....BE WEARY OF BUYING IT.

Chris

Chris-

It's a 4x4, all the gears engage normally, It just had the relay for the 4x4 replaced. I'm only 5'7" so I'm not worried about leg room, screw the passengers. No lag or odd shifting of the trans. I will be getting a warranty with this vehicle or another vehicle if I decide to purchase it. I figure with my luck, its the safest bet.

Side note, we are supposed to get about 12 inches of snow here in south central Illinois, so I will be able to put the truck to the test :). I'll keep you all updated on whats happening.

If anyone else knows about issues with the 99 Sierra/Silverado I'd appreciate some feedback.

Thanks,

Trey

P.S. Mark- Good luck with the move and I hope that work comes your way soon. I'll do my best to get the bird a good home.

[Jacob_Royer]

I think you said it was 4X2? If so there were few problems with them The 4X4s had the clunk in the t-case when you stuck them in four low. If it did it too often, it would stick in 4 low and that SUCKED when we were trying to drive across a field to get a deer:D . All in all, I dont like the GM because of the smaller leg room in the front. The GM has more room in the back seat but then I dont spend time back there. There was one or two more engine things (piston slap) but I think most of them were on the six litres. Oh....and if the tranny has a lag in it while shifting....BE WEARY OF BUYING IT.

Chris



Lag in tranny? that sounds like very auto in a mod motor ford :( they feel extremely sloppy compared to the 4L60e... Had 2500lbs pallet of oak scrap in the back of the 99 f150 the other day and i hit a couple hills that i had to pull in 2nd wide open.. Course i will give it one thing it runs about the same empty as any 5.4 i've ever drove even though its a 4.6 (3.90 gears,305 tires, K&N FIPK, true 3" duals w/single chamber flow-masters,electric fan) As far as 4-wheeling it has the chevy beat hands down.. used to belong to a former ford mech and he setup the trac-loc tight! i've had its places in 2wd without much trouble that i had to use 4wd in the chevy in... course it is a short bed reg cab but i think alot of it is the diffrence between a rebuilt trac-loc and 3.90 gears vs a 100k gov-loc with 3.42's.....

[seawalkersee]

I have to admit, the new Chebbys are tough (ls1 and newer) but there were problems. Im telling you, my old boss had a burban and had it in the shop for the tranny. It would hit really hard when it was cold but there was a lag when it was warm. Took it in several times under the warranty and a few thousand miles after it was out of warranty, the tranny went out. He took it back and they tried to screw him. They would not even assist so he went and has some vinal letters made for the window that said "Heartland Chevrolet told me there was nothing wrong with my trannmission when in fact it needed to be replaced" It was a long message and got to the point where they threatened legal action against him. He said "Go ahead" since he had all the paperwork that showed he had the tranny looked at several times. Shortly there after, they had a meeting and reimbursed him for part of the money. I would have told them to piss off and would have parked it right outside their driveway every day.

Long and short of it is, that I have heard of other trannies with the same problem that lasts an average of 10-15K.

As far as the ford issues, do a search for J-mod (pickup is different than the car) and get it done. You wont be sorry.

Chris