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View Full Version : Tubular Rear Control Arms



Thomas A
11-15-2006, 08:53 PM
This is just an idea at this point, but I have been speaking with a very well known suspension company about the possibility of making tubular rear control arms for our cars. I am looking at having them make uppers for sure, and looking at the logistics of the lowers. I don't know if the lowers will even be possible considering the IRS and how much the lower control arm does in our car. Anyway, please vote in the above poll. This is very early, so there is no pricing info or number needed or anything like that.

Feel free to post comments or suggestions regarding this topic.

Thomas

PReDiTR91
11-15-2006, 09:25 PM
Sounds good brotha! If it were posible to have the LCA's made that would be insane!!!:D Keep us posted!

XxSlowpokexX
11-15-2006, 11:05 PM
You can make a very strong control arm tubular...moreso then stock if done correctly.

Thomas A
11-15-2006, 11:26 PM
Yes, they offer a lot of advantages, mainly strength and weight. I am just afraid that the lowers would be so complicated that it would drive cost out of reach for most. I'll see what we can come up with.

Thomas

XxSlowpokexX
11-15-2006, 11:37 PM
May be worth it if they can be easily rebuilt using more standard peices..Even at a higher cost

95badbird
11-16-2006, 12:15 AM
hmmm, imagine, tubular, with coil over....:cool:

I voted for #2

drummerzrok24
11-16-2006, 06:31 AM
I'd get Uppers and Lowers for sure! And coilovers would be the icing on the cake.

joshbea6
11-16-2006, 01:36 PM
Any ideas on how the uppers would be mounted? Would they be a mount to the body, or would they be somehow worked into conjunction with the IRS?

If they are attached to the body, do you have any plans for body strengthening where the mounting points would have to be?

I'd be interested if the price was right.

Ryan A Harris
11-16-2006, 01:56 PM
If they bolt up to the stock locations, then I'd be interested. Not sure if thats even an option, but the idea sounds sweet.

quick35th
11-16-2006, 02:43 PM
This sounds like a cool idea. Hope it works out.

Shane

Nettlesd
11-16-2006, 04:00 PM
I'm all over it if you can get them made using injection molded plastic.

Mercutio
11-17-2006, 12:00 AM
I'd be all over 2 sets of rear LCAs--but is it worth it for rear UCAs? The stock ones can't be very heavy as is, and I'd rather see the effort put into front control arms. Still, I'm definitely in for the lowers.

As for coilovers in back, one thing to consider would be that even if the LCA itself could be designed differently, to be strong enough for coilovers, what about the upper shock mount? Would just adding a big piece of steel bar or L-bracket to the inside or outside of the body be enough strength to support the whole tail end of the car?

Thomas A
11-17-2006, 12:52 AM
I think the main advantage to the rear upper arms would be strength. They would not flex like the factory ones do. In theory, the bushings where they mount to the body of the car should absorb the majority of the energy, thus saving the body from having to take the force. However, that doesn't always work as well as it should, so some good road/track testing would be helpful.

Thomas

XxSlowpokexX
11-17-2006, 01:04 AM
I'd be more then willing to test these as I get major wheelhop and would love to see if a stronger upper can reduce flex and help with that

seawalkersee
11-17-2006, 12:57 PM
I would want to know the difference in weight over the Lincoln LCSs first. Then I would want to know if I could get rid of the rear spring with a coil over setup that is used on the ~~~ mustang. If they were lighter, AND had the option of a coilover setup and it was under a grand, I would probably go for it. We would of course then need a stronger shock mount for the top:rolleyes:

Chris

icantdrive55
11-18-2006, 09:37 AM
I would be interested in uppers if they were triangulated. Make one new weld-on mounting bracket and adjust camber with threaded rod. I hate that factory inner bushing.

Lowers would be cool, but the aluminum arms seem strong enough to me.

seawalkersee
11-18-2006, 04:03 PM
Yeah...I would be happy if the spring perch that gets added to the aluminum arm was a bit better. Say, with the center hollowed out to reduce even more weight.

Chris

Pablo94SC
11-21-2006, 01:51 AM
Just curious, and slightly on/off topic, but does anyone know if they still make a tubular front k-members for our cars? I think Kenny Brown did for a time, but it's been years since I heard anything about it.

Thomas, if this place can make tubular rear control arms, think they can or would be interested in making a tubular front k-member?

XxSlowpokexX
11-21-2006, 02:20 AM
AJE makes a tubular K member..need to use the complete setup ..COil overs to tubular arms..It gets rid of the strut rod setup..Unsure how good it is for handeling or ride quality however

Pablo94SC
11-21-2006, 02:28 AM
I'd be more then willing to test these as I get major wheelhop and would love to see if a stronger upper can reduce flex and help with that

I have a feeling that a stronger upper would help wheel hop, but also worry about reducing weight in the rear.


Without losing an equal amount up front to counter-balance the weight reduction in the rear, the car will become more nose heavy than before. This will lead to increased understeer that may not be easily compensated for by increased sway-bar size/pre-load, stiffer spring rate, or power induced oversteer. Also, power induced oversteer may become more dangerous, and launch characteristics might be changed negatively (think more wheel-hop!)


I think before we look at losing more rear weight, we should really concentrate on losing nose weight. Balance is key to a car that handles and behaves well.

Pablo94SC
11-21-2006, 02:31 AM
AJE makes a tubular K member..need to use the complete setup ..COil overs to tubular arms..It gets rid of the strut rod setup..Unsure how good it is for handeling or ride quality however

Then it's useless. We need a tubular k-member for road course/street use. Then any negative ride quality aspects could be worked out with spring rate, sway bar, and adjustable shocks.

BTW, drink lots of juice, keep a cold compress/wash cloth on your forehead, and get plenty of rest. You need to get better before you come home.

Thomas A
11-21-2006, 02:38 AM
I think the weight of a tubular upper rear arm vs. the stock one will be pretty much the same. The stock ones are fairly light already.

Thomas

XxSlowpokexX
11-21-2006, 02:58 AM
True they dont weigh all that much...Any weight loss there would be negligable except that weight loss in suspension peices generally add to a better riding vehicle

89SCK@t
11-21-2006, 03:10 AM
IF, and only IF the price would be reasonable.

seawalkersee
11-21-2006, 06:30 AM
I dont think that the upper CAN actually weigh any less than the stock for the mark VIII. They have holes cut in almost the entire top portion of them. I would sacrifice a bit of weight there for stability though. And we have discussed how to make that possible.

Chris

Pablo94SC
11-21-2006, 06:26 PM
I think the weight of a tubular upper rear arm vs. the stock one will be pretty much the same. The stock ones are fairly light already.

Thomas

Well then make away! :)

quick35th
11-21-2006, 06:59 PM
What about making an entire tubular rear subframe instead the the stock upper and lower controlling arms can mount to?

Shane

XxSlowpokexX
11-21-2006, 10:03 PM
How about all three?

Thomas A
11-21-2006, 10:05 PM
That would be the ideal solution. I think I would have to go to another company to get the subframe done. I wonder if AJE would be interested in do that?

Thomas

quick35th
11-22-2006, 12:12 AM
That would be the ideal solution. I think I would have to go to another company to get the subframe done. I wonder if AJE would be interested in do that?

Thomas

That would be fine just as long as they dont turn out like the AJE front tubular kmembers did.

Shane

XxSlowpokexX
11-22-2006, 12:22 AM
A rear subframe using STOCK geometry with solid mounts to body..Sounds good to me. If anything diff mounting can be changed to be solidy mounted as well or to use COBRA irs mounts..That would be ideal

Sharon Silver
11-29-2006, 04:53 PM
Anything that would give us a stable rear upper arm would be an improvement, espically if it were designed to give us adjustability without those eliptical washers. Since '99 Cobra rear shocks fit, wouldn't '99 Cobra coilovers squeeze in there? But, if some company were to go to all the trouble of giving us a new subframe, wouldn't a new mount for the pumpkin be nice? And, how about two rear shocks? Surely there's room on that LCR to mount the thing, then, with a stablizer bar mounted between the tops of the rear shocks, we ought to be able to bounce it over curbs at speed. One note, I added a rear tortional load brace and that made a huge difference in handling -- I can actually keep the rear under control when hitting a pothole in a curve -- so let's get good bracing inbetween the lower arms, also.

Pablo94SC
11-29-2006, 09:51 PM
While I like the idea of adding an additional set of rear shocks, connecting the tops of the two shock would be difficult given the elevation difference of the mounting points. One would basically be on the floor of the trunk. :(

XxSlowpokexX
11-29-2006, 10:34 PM
I mentioned teh cobra coil over setup and Dave D mentioned the potential of loss of tire clearence....Kenny brown has an awfully nice setup if anyoen is daring enough to try

quick35th
11-30-2006, 11:57 AM
If anything diff mounting can be changed to be solidy mounted as well or to use COBRA irs mounts..That would be ideal

Damon,

Kenny Brown makes or used to make solid aluminum diff bushings for cobras with IRS. Those bushings are obviously the very same as ours. I have a pair on my 35th, they are nice.

Shane

XxSlowpokexX
11-30-2006, 09:21 PM
SHane,

I iknwo and you can adjust teh pinion angle with them as well...However I was afraid to use it with a factory rear rubber mount. I was thinking when all is said and done to set pinion angle then just tack metal plate to rear diff bushing to make it solid

seawalkersee
11-30-2006, 11:21 PM
Thats what I am going to do with mine. I am going to set the angle and then add the weld to that mount. THEN, I am going to add a brace to the rear cover AND the front to make that bioch solid...It will be cool.

Chris

PReDiTR91
12-10-2006, 04:02 PM
So how is it looking Thomas? Does it look like its gonna happen?

Thomas A
12-10-2006, 04:50 PM
I haven't had time to do anything with this.

Thomas

Thomas A
12-20-2006, 10:49 PM
Thomas, I would need a print of the control arm, and we would need 100 sets to cover tooling.
Thanks,
This won't happen unless some vendors want to step up and make a rather large investment. :(

This was through ADDCO, which is a great company. Maybe someone else would be willing to work with us on the number needed?

Thomas

PReDiTR91
12-23-2006, 12:28 AM
Hope someone with big pockets will read this thread! So far how many people have shown interest in this? About 5!:(

XxSlowpokexX
12-23-2006, 12:35 AM
UPR states if you have something people want we will make it.....

info@uprproducts.com

If enough people say they want...They will make..Seriously..Show them there is a market..And a following and it will be done..

I have no time to do this..Last time I attempted something of this sort the manufacturer did indeed produce the product (not UPR) and I got screwed..

So Someone else see if they are willing..Plenty of FN10/ mn112 sites out there to show there is a definite following and need for this

Damon

AMD[H]unter
01-06-2007, 08:39 PM
Yes, this is a great idea, seeing as the rear uppers are no longer in production.

AMD[H]unter
01-06-2007, 08:40 PM
Hope someone with big pockets will read this thread! So far how many people have shown interest in this? About 5!:(

No, you counted wrong. About 41 have shown interest.

Thomas A
01-06-2007, 10:14 PM
I have contacted another company, so we will have to see what happens.

Thomas

PReDiTR91
01-07-2007, 01:45 AM
unter;597462']No, you counted wrong. About 41 have shown interest.
Thanx for pointing that out for me:rolleyes:

AMD[H]unter
01-08-2007, 10:16 PM
Thanx for pointing that out for me:rolleyes:

No problem....it's my job. :D

Thomas A
01-14-2007, 02:10 AM
I contacted another company 12-14-07. Maybe the 3rd place will work out.

Thomas

ponysc
01-14-2007, 04:16 AM
For what it's worth I would be interested in a complete rear subframe and accessories (control arms)

Otherwise, I think I'm happy w what I have.


I didn't vote. But I like spending money.

AMD[H]unter
01-16-2007, 01:14 PM
Any updates?

Thomas A
01-16-2007, 08:30 PM
Nothing yet. Will most likely have to get on the phone with them instead of e-mailing them. I really hate companies that provide an e-mail address and then won't check it or reply back.

Thomas

PReDiTR91
01-18-2007, 03:04 AM
I found this site www.321irs.com have you ever checked them out before Thomas?

Thomas A
01-18-2007, 07:58 PM
Good site. I have seen it before, but kinda forgot about it. I will look into it.

Thomas

XxSlowpokexX
01-22-2007, 05:50 PM
A littel off topic but he also said he would make us half shafts as well (321 site)

Thomas A
01-29-2007, 12:30 AM
I've found someone who is willing to look into this for us. He will be looking at clearance issues and putting together some ideas this week.

Thomas

PReDiTR91
02-17-2007, 02:03 AM
Any updates Thomas?

Thomas A
02-17-2007, 02:56 AM
We are currently looking into fit and clearance, and will go from there.

Thomas

drummerzrok24
02-17-2007, 02:27 PM
Keep us updated!

Thanks

Grims95SC
02-18-2007, 01:47 AM
Good stuff!

XxSlowpokexX
02-18-2007, 05:08 PM
Anything that can use replaceable joints and bushing is ok in my book..When we can no longer find the correct parts to replace..I'd be in..Just a matter of teh bushing durometer..Maybe even heim joits for the nuts around here

mannysc
02-20-2007, 12:50 PM
I dont see any benifit from tubular uppers if you have ever removed the uppers you would see they dont wheigh much at all strength ?
who has broken an upper arm?

flex yeah right how much 1/32 inch?
the bushings flex and give the aRM probably dont flex enuff to warrant a new arm as for wheel hop the arm wont do anything for it its bushings every one of them from subframe to upper lower arm bushings the upper arm will not stop wheel hop no one mod will and i dont think the upper arms are bad even in the most hostile turns the amount of bend flex as you say is minimal. total effect of a fart in a tornado.

just my o/2 now a lower arm would be great or a complete rear subframe from tube would be great. sorry i just dont see the need for a upper arm.
unless you want the look what i got over done ricer type thing .

as for drag racing and wheel hop well we all know irs is not ideal for it.

and whats needed is a solid axle.

Thomas A
02-20-2007, 11:33 PM
There is nothing wrong with IRS for drag racing. It just takes the right combination. I get so tired of hearing everyone say how we should all just go to a straight axle as it is far superior.

Thomas

mannysc
02-21-2007, 02:17 AM
it is!!!!! less parts to break

Thomas A
02-21-2007, 02:48 AM
That doesn't mean that IRS doesn't have merit. I will always be a believer in IRS and what you can do with them. If built correctly, they can give you the best of both worlds.

Anyway...... I need a volunteer to do some test fitting and measuring. Anyone want to help out?

Thomas

Randy N Connie
02-21-2007, 09:46 AM
What type measurements do you need?

It would be very simple to build a jig to
build the left and right sides, upper & lower arms.
Just use a stock arm for mounting points
to build a jig. Then change the center design
of the arm to meet your needs. It would take
around 8 to 10 hours to machine the parts to
build a jig. I would guess that one jig for one
lower arm side would cost around $150.00 for
materials.

Have you looked into building a upper arm with
two connection points to the lower sub-frame.
and one point to the knucle. This would take
welding extra tabs to the sub-frame for mounting
points for a Y shape adjustable upper control arm.

Adjustable aluminum coil-over shock could free
up at lot of room. Swapping from a 5 inch spring
to a 3 inch diameter coil-over spring.

Good luck with your new project Thomas. Randy

Thomas A
02-23-2007, 02:03 PM
I just don't have the time or ambition to see this through at this time. If anyone would like to take the project over, please let me know. We are at the point where we need to check clearances and such, so if you have a SC you can pull the wheel off of and do some checking and such, that would be a bonus. Just drop me a PM and I will get you in contact with the guy I have been working with. Thanks for the support.

Thomas

Sharon Silver
02-24-2007, 11:56 PM
I would make some time if it meant we could get anything better for our IRS's. I have a lowered suspension but 89SCK@t has a stock and I'm sure I can press some time out of him, also.

victor malvar
05-11-2007, 10:14 AM
I would make some time if it meant we could get anything better for our IRS's. I have a lowered suspension but 89SCK@t has a stock and I'm sure I can press some time out of him, also.

Hi Sharon, Thomas, all interested parties.
I would tend to agree with Manny but I do have interest in this. I would be very interested in any assistance needed to get this and look into this from all different angles. I am back to work and this sounds good to me. I do think that a little bit more R & D could prove to be beneficial to many SCers. etc. Thomas I'm interested. Sharon or anyone else let me know if I can be of assistance on this in any way.....

The poll shows overwhelming approval from those who have voted.

Please let me know.

Randy N Connie
05-11-2007, 11:49 AM
Victor

I beleive a three point upper rear control arm would be a right step
toward improving the rear suspension.And a much lighter & stronger
lower rear control arm can be built easily from 4130.

And if it had more adjustment, this would be a plus for lowered NM12s
for better alinement.

I made a jig and have built my own front lower control arms. But
this is to fit a tube K-Member only. Like the AJE K-Member.

I can build the parts or the jig for what you all are wanting.
But It is not feasable to invest any more of my time or money
to develop parts. There are a few that have went out of there
way to attac and run off all the best fabricators that this board
has had over the years.

Glad to hear your feeling better Victor.

Thanks Randy

XxSlowpokexX
05-11-2007, 12:12 PM
I'd definitely buy a set

victor malvar
05-11-2007, 01:47 PM
Victor

I beleive a three point upper rear control arm would be a right step
toward improving the rear suspension.And a much lighter & stronger
lower rear control arm can be built easily from 4130.

And if it had more adjustment, this would be a plus for lowered NM12s
for better alinement.

I made a jig and have built my own front lower control arms. But
this is to fit a tube K-Member only. Like the AJE K-Member.

I can build the parts or the jig for what you all are wanting.
But It is not feasable to invest any more of my time or money
to develop parts. There are a few that have went out of there
way to attac and run off all the best fabricators that this board
has had over the years.

Glad to hear your feeling better Victor.

Thanks Randy

Hi Randy,

Thank you I'm glad to be back! I hope you and Connie are also doing well!!!

Randy it makes sense. I would be interested in pushing this on a little more.

I would certainly be interested in speaking with you about this. Who knows what we could come up with....

I'm taking Diane to dinner tonight as I promised her a few times and I cancelled. She had me sign it on paper this time! A Ha ha ....

I will be home tomorrow all day and Sunday maybe we could have a good old fashioned chat how does that sound to you??

Please let me know. PM me or eMail me. spinningwheels-sc@earthlink.net.

Take care of yourselves!
Victor and Diane

352-732-5013

Randy N Connie
05-12-2007, 03:26 PM
Victor Thanks,

You just need to build a jig to hold stock peices. Then machine new
end peices,then bolt end peices in the jig, then add your newly
design center peices.Weld To finish a upper or lower control arms.

Building a three point upper rear control arm. Bolt-on kit would not
be possible. Customers would need to weld additional mounting tabs
to the sub-frame. To bolt new control arm to the sub-frame.

Thanks Randy

seawalkersee
05-26-2008, 09:51 PM
I have a solution that I am working on at the present time. I have a trailing arm that goes off of the uca and goes to the rear of the car. Dan Sly had the idea so you can do a search and find what he has done.

Chris

MN12Racing
05-29-2008, 10:52 PM
looking at this from motorsport perspective, I'm not sure that there's a benefit to be had over the Mark 8 equipment....unless:
A UCA that makes camber adjustment easier, and gives you a greater range would be great!

Mercutio
05-30-2008, 12:49 AM
Don't forget that a new LCA control arm could use T-Bird bushings (or any bushing, really) rather than the hard to find Lincoln LCA bushings.

seawalkersee
05-30-2008, 03:48 PM
looking at this from motorsport perspective, I'm not sure that there's a benefit to be had over the Mark 8 equipment....unless:
A UCA that makes camber adjustment easier, and gives you a greater range would be great!

No. I firmly believe that the tire hopping/shake when the tires spin is from the upper control arm not having support to keep it planted under the car. When I watched the shootout, I videoed the tires of several of the cars during burnouts. The entire thing would move front to back in the wheel well. I think the fact that it started moving, and then started sticking, would have been limited and possibly not have occured if there was at LEAST two mounting points for the UCA to the frame (wishbone setup).

Chris

Randy N Connie
06-01-2008, 03:14 PM
No. I firmly believe that the tire hopping/shake when the tires spin is from the upper control arm not having support to keep it planted under the car. When I watched the shootout, I videoed the tires of several of the cars during burnouts. The entire thing would move front to back in the wheel well. I think the fact that it started moving, and then started sticking, would have been limited and possibly not have occured if there was at LEAST two mounting points for the UCA to the frame (wishbone setup).

Chris

I agree, I have seen film that showed the rear wheel moving
foreward & rearward.

I thought of beefing mine up with a wishbone tube type upper control arm.
Never did it for a couple reasons I don't have a hugh problem with wheel
hop of the rear wheels, plus I don't do much of any type racing. I did
look my rear suspension over while doing other mods in this area. For a wishbone upper control arm you would just need to weld two extra tabs
on the outside of the uppercontrol arm stock moutinr tabs. Then weld
up a tubed wishbone upper control arm. With a curve in the front side of upper rear control arm for spring clearance. I would use heim joints for connection & adjustablitiy from the subframe side. A wishbone upper
control arm also could be built with stock size rubber bushing and
adjustablility close to stock arrangment.

The adjustable coil over aluminum shock built by QA1 ,the deal Thomas
put a deal together . Would save diameter space that the stock spring
takes up. This would let ya be able to run with less of a bend in the
front of custom built rear upper wishbone control arm. I never got around
to buying Thomas's aluminum adjustable coil overs G/P, this is one of the
biggest reasons I never went any farther with building a upper & lower
rear control arms. I wanted to try and fab the rear suppension with dual
rear aluminum coil over shocks. Felt that it was to costly and did not
need this much over the top rear springs. It would of been more show
since I don't have wheel hop problems.

Chris if your interrested in building a wishbone upper control arm. I think
you can start with a stock upper control arm. Build a jig to hold both ends
of stock upper control arms.

On the top of the jig, where tabs (with drilled though hole )would be located from stock control arms length.(Nearest to subframe.) You could install a
rod though the tabs holes on the top part of rear upper control arm.
This rod would give you the needed mounting & welding points for what
ever type heim joints, excentric adjustment bolt type bushings that you
would want to build, and come up with the leingth up need your new custom.

For the bling factor you could machine a aluminum upper wishbone
control arm. Go with a pair of adjustable coil over shocks, with
chrome springs.

Randy

MN12Racing
06-01-2008, 10:39 PM
Should have specified my motorsport: GT car racing, road courses etc. :)

seawalkersee
06-01-2008, 11:05 PM
Randy. It is more of a trailing arm but will suffice the purpose. I have purchased a set of tubular arms with threads at both ends. I have a heim at each end and will weld two tabs to the uppers and box the rear of the frame about 2' towards the rear. Without even looking at it, I know this will work. It will give the stability from the body to the upper arm in the event there is too much give between the subframe and the arm. I am also cutting a bunch of weight off of the subframe and strengthing it too. I want to put solid mounts out of aluminum between the frame and the body with rubber spacers on the outside between the washers and the subframe (basically the stock mount on the bottom portion).

Chris

Randy N Connie
06-02-2008, 11:29 AM
Chris I was just making sujestion for a setup on tring to build a upper
rear A-arm jig.. A jig to help build the upper arm. and with parts of
a jig that may be used to complete the welding of the tabs that
would hold and line up the install of upper a-arm. The pin from the
jig to build the upper a-arm. Could maybe used to hold the tabs
that would need to be welded to the subframe. By just sliding the
pin through the stock tabs that the stock upper control arm bolts
to. this pin would help in keeping the same subframe bolt up location.
To weld any new tabs.

I think this setup, a custom upper a-arm would help in reducing
part of the 5 speed SC Bird wheel hop, but not all. Upper rear
control arm would help in added adjustments for some that have
a lowered MN12. It would also help in reducing torque twisting
of this area. This type custom part would not requier a lot of
tooling , or money to build.

A trailing rod is a great idea, and cost effective for a racer to built
on there own. I think a upper cutom a-arm with trailing arm in
conjuction with each other would make a soild low flexing suspension
unit.

Maybe I am reading your post wrong of your ideas. But It would
be hard to get a trailing rod connection to the outside of the
upper rear control arm. To have the needed leverage to stabalize
the stock rear upper control arm. Because of wheel clearance.
And to match the arch of the suspension to the arch of the
a trailing arm. so there would not be a side loading of a push
and pull on suspension during suspension travel.

I would like to see a trail arm with a upper a-arm rear control arm.
I have no idea how or what this set up would change the handeling
from a stock rear suspension setup. Some talk about the flexability
for rear steer of the stock system. In straight line racing suspension
set up, would it even matter.

As far as going with trailing arm type set up to reduce wheel flexing.
Is there room for a 4 link set up between the rear upper,lower
control arms and the wheel to the chassis?

I have no idea what would best work, just thought I would kick
some ideas around with ya that would not cost an arm and leg
when fabbing your own parts...

When I first started to think about building a custom upper and
lower rear control arms, with adjustable coil over shocks. Was
not to reduce wheel hop, but for tring the installation of the
shorter cobra axels, so I could have more fender clearances
to run wider wheel & tires.

Randy

seawalkersee
06-02-2008, 05:52 PM
No, because of the distance towards the outside, and the fact that it is 24-25" long, I believe there will be enough distance that will allow FULL suspension travel with no side effects what so ever. As long as I have it set up at least 1* below the centerline with the suspension at full compression, I think it will work well. There wont be enough travel of the suspension to make it work.

Chris

Nettlesd
06-03-2008, 02:26 PM
Pro Street Rich came up with a solution a couple of years ago on the movement of the tire going forward and backward.

Randy N Connie
06-03-2008, 04:04 PM
Chris glad to hear your moving along with your car.
Keep me posted on how it turns out. Havent heard much
feed back from Dan Sly's suspension mods using a trailing
arm type setup to reduce wheel hop.

Nice talking with ya about this topic. I have had different
goals besides reducing wheel hop. My thoughts are more
along the lines of a two plus inch narrower rear tracking width.
And the use of adj. aluminum coil over shocks, I would of
really like to use two coil overs on each side with chrome
spring.mostly just for a custom bling factor.

I would like to hear more about the QA-1 aluminum adjustable
coil over shocks. From the people that bought this set-up.
I gave the Ph. number to Thomas for a guy that worked and
built custom QA-1 shock set ups.During the time I was kicking
around the idea of modding my rear suspension. After Thomas
got the deal together and rolling. I was tight for money at the
time the group buy, and did not buy any coil over shocks.
The only post that I have found and read on the use of the
QA-1 coil shocks over group buy was by a member named
Mercutio.In his post he said somthing about using QA-1 coil over
parts to fab a different setup to meet his needs of driving on
some twisties ,braking, etc.... I do not remember if he was
posting about the front or rear suspension or both.

Chris good luck with your drag chassis work. Maybe I will
be lucky enough to see ya burn down the track someday.
I think you fabbing some trailing arms will help ya out a lot.
Arent you also working on a blown V-8 mod motor setup?

Thanks Randy

seawalkersee
06-03-2008, 05:04 PM
HA...Blown mod motor...Now I have more money than time. I am sitting on a 4v setup with a turbo that needs TONS of work before I can even begin to fab up the exhaust for that car. The SC is going to cost way too much money for me to build (the way I want it) right now. I do not have a ton of cash to drop on a billet 4.5 crank. So I am going to pull out the 351 from my bronco and stick it in there as I will place the 6.9 Diesel with a blower in my bronco.

To stay on topic, there is one more thing I would like to point out. With my previous statement about the angle (front to back) on the car, I think I can almost see it working flawlessly since when you smoke the tires (most of the time) the rear is going to squat. I guess I should say on a launch it squats. With the trailing arm close to the 1* mark as I can get it, the pressure and twist will be bac on the rear of the car in essence using the moment arm as if it had a solid axle (sorta) as it pushes down on the rear of the car (as the solid axle lifts near the center of the car).

I hope to get the time to do the main mounts to this in the next week. I will get pix of it up.

Chris

coggonobrien
08-28-2009, 11:52 AM
anything ever come of this? it would be nice if the uppers were made to clear a 15x10 wheel

Regul8r
09-05-2009, 01:01 PM
I know this is an old thread resurrected but HELL YEAH!
Someone fill us in on the rear upper control arm mod!

Back when I had my first SC I thought this upper was an issue. No stabilization is an issue.

I was thinking a trail arm from the front to the UCA or from he UCA to the rear.

I think it would not put too much stress on it, "BUMP STEER"

Ok, correct my theories as you will...
2 things to think about... BUMP STEER or in the IRS case... BUMP CAMBER/CASTER

Consider all the following mounted as far out as possible on the UCA inside the wheel, the other mount discussed is WHERE on the body the inboard mounts.

1. IF mount the additional arm(AA) inboard at same level "zero degrees" with the stock UCA and close to stock mount are then normal range of motion, ZERO BUMP CASTER/CAMBER. Effect... not alot of wheel hop reduction...just a small upper wish bone type of UCA.

2. IF mount the AA FORWARD, like a trail arm, could make forward mount adjustable for racing type. like a 4 link
a. Zero degrees (matched travel arc)... no camber/caster change
b. mount higher (higher travel arc)... when car squats on Drag Launch or weight transfer on outside wheel in a hard corner, the travel arc would cause it to GAIN + Camber thus keeping the whole tire planted flat on the ground. This has another affect... pushs UCA back as well as out...adding -Caster. Not alot but could help keep her straight on launch while hanging hoops. a 3rd order effect... force transferred FORWARD through the AA to the body while slowing/stopping wheel hop.
c. Mount lower (lower travel arc)... it has opposite effect... as it squats the AA would PULL on the UCA causing negative camber and positive caster, makes it squirlie.

Now THAT all depends on how STRAIGHT forward it is mounted or how far IN it is mounted. Straight forward would work caster more. Mounted further in and it would pull/push on camber.

looks like perfect would be same level as the stock inboard mount. Travel arc equal/matched up and down, no adverse camber effect.
Then forward or back at a 45 degree angle between UCA and wheel centerline, Caster effected equal through travel arc.

Ok beat me up?
But I am looking to do something about tis when I get home!

seawalkersee
09-06-2009, 10:38 AM
Have not finished mine yet....Life happened and got in the way.

SWS

Regul8r
09-07-2009, 10:09 AM
SWS,
we'll have to get together one weekend make this happen!!

Carl

Thomas A
08-22-2010, 04:12 PM
I found little support from the major producers when I looked into it several years ago, and never followed it up further. If they are deemed something that would be helpful, maybe DLF would be willing to tackle them or know's someone that would be.

Thomas

DLF
08-22-2010, 06:08 PM
I found little support from the major producers when I looked into it several years ago, and never followed it up further. If they are deemed something that would be helpful, maybe DLF would be willing to tackle them or know's someone that would be.

Thomas

Unless you use coilover shocks (and I'm not sure that the body would support that without at least some reinforcement), I don't see any particular advantage to tubular LCA's vs. the aluminum Mark VIII LCA's.

TinManSC92
08-22-2010, 06:14 PM
I'm going to make sure it works' for sure first' before claiming it's a must have. I'm also thinking of videoing the set up while in motion. I'd like to see if it also eliminates any vibration as well, or, transfers it back through the frame. Any more information you can remenber, or think of, you be sure to chime in. I could certainly use it.

Thomas A
08-22-2010, 06:59 PM
Unless you use coilover shocks (and I'm not sure that the body would support that without at least some reinforcement), I don't see any particular advantage to tubular LCA's vs. the aluminum Mark VIII LCA's.

Upper arms, not lowers ;)

Thomas

TinManSC92
08-22-2010, 08:09 PM
HEY! I'm going to have to re-read this entire thread. It's a very old thread, as of course you would know that. If that's true, I'm going to have to revisit my initial hypothesis. Are you suggesting I should be looking up instead and stabilizing this arm? That would be a different method I've not considered. going to look now

TinManSC92
08-22-2010, 10:35 PM
NOPE! couldn't see anything that would help our cause. And by the looks of it, neither did FORD. The upper arm is only a stamped channel out of sheet metal. Not a cast member or even tubular, just a stamped, open ended channel.
Making that arm stronger wouldn't be that expensive or time consuming. In fact, you could weld in a couple of flat plates in certain locations to increase it's load capacity as well as twisting.... if it ever did. (WEB stiffening).
To me, at first glance it seems to be dimensionally stable.
I'm still betting on the LCA and it's hinged connection being responsible.
Your thoughts please!

DLF
08-22-2010, 11:08 PM
Upper arms, not lowers ;)

Thomas

There's no reason to do anything about the UCA's. They exist only to provide camber control and are not designed nor needed for lateral support.

The reason that the knuckles attach via two points to the LCA's is to provide that lateral support, which works well, once the compliance is removed from the LCA and knuckle bushings.

TinManSC92
08-23-2010, 02:27 PM
I would agree! But, you still never know if that guy has some ingenious way of circumventing the entire assembly through the use of the UCA back through the LCA and connecting it to some other mount.... And, I still don't. I've thought of 3 different methods myself. But, none for 175.00 bucks and ease of installation. If I felt the LCA casting was strong enough I'd drill a hole through that. But, whose going to want to do that anyways. It's got to be a simple and easy install for cheap or no one is going to fix the problem. Then again, I'm preaching to the choir. you would already know that. :)

Mercutio
08-23-2010, 06:00 PM
The reason the UCA is a C shape is that the half shaft runs inside of it when the suspension compresses enough. That design requirement, and the curved shape to the piece, is going to make designing a new UCA pretty difficult.

Crash00527
08-23-2010, 07:21 PM
where are we on this project? id love to buy some...:)

TinManSC92
08-23-2010, 07:46 PM
Next Monday is as soon as I can verify all the testing. I'm now changing the shear pin to a stainless bolt. pull factor isn't that high so the ss bolt should suffice and not bend at all. Also the spacer modification not previously shown is lighter tubing to cut down on weight and the brass 3/4" bushing is now a two piece.

seawalkersee
09-07-2010, 11:02 PM
wate,. werthat?

SWWS

TinManSC92
09-08-2010, 10:24 PM
Yah, sorry about that delay. had a couple of surprise work days to work around. But, I've been back at it and made some more changes. I should be done sunday with more tires to shred. :D
I've also reduced some weight and material by changing the angles of the pin more inward. Don't know what effects this will have on braking. hopefully the same balance.

TinManSC92
09-24-2010, 08:34 PM
Finally!.... I was able to test my last dimension change to the thrust arms.

AND, they work marvelous. No wheel hop, no banging or thumping. And,WOW! What a nice pushing thrust that has an incredile sharp launch.]

Now, I don't have to worry about blowing apart my rear end off the line. There's so much more consistancy to when it's going to break tracion as well. Not anything like before where the slightest bump would throw the entire rear into a chaotic LCA bash. I can actually hear my engine while under hard launches now. They DO sound nice. :D

Who says you can't eliminate wheel hop altogether. Problem solved. ;)

Thomas A
09-24-2010, 09:06 PM
PICTURES PLEASE!! :)

Thomas

DLF
09-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Why are you posting in this thread and not your own?

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115818

TinManSC92
09-24-2010, 11:03 PM
Geez! I can't remember how I even got on this thread now?? I think it was Thomas A who directed me over to this one with what he had started long ago. Then it kinda went from there. But, thanks for finding that for me. I will certainly post there now. And, now that I think about it, I believe that was my starting point from where I "LAUNCHED" this whole thing from. :D

TinManSC92
09-24-2010, 11:18 PM
Yes Thomas! pictures of them installed will happen tomorow. Although I haven't painted the other side yet. Just threw them on after I finished changes.

seawalkersee
09-26-2010, 06:09 PM
Errrrr...two days later and no pix.

SWS

Crash00527
09-26-2010, 06:13 PM
Pics pics pics lol. I wanna get some also

TinManSC92
09-28-2010, 06:45 PM
I got the pictures for you but, they're on the other thread. Actually, it's the right thread. This is Thomas A's thread that I somehow got onto.

Mercutio
09-28-2010, 07:04 PM
I've been reading this for I don't know how long and waiting on pictures thinking you made control arms. Perhaps we should clear that up so people don't get confused.

TinManSC92
09-28-2010, 07:17 PM
Yah, sorry about that. You must have just posted this while I was posting where the pictures are at. As I mentioned a couple times before, this thread actually belongs to the guy who initially started this whole thing Thomas A. Don't even asked how I got onto this one. I can't remember.

Crash00527
09-29-2010, 12:14 PM
I got the pictures for you but, they're on the other thread. Actually, it's the right thread. This is Thomas A's thread that I somehow got onto.

OOOK.. it would help if you maybe post the link to the correct thread of where you posted the pictures? Since everyone is waiting for pics on this thread lol

TinManSC92
09-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Ha ha! yah, I'm going to see what Hock was thinking. LOL. Now he'll post them here. :D

EvilMooseofDoom
10-30-2010, 07:28 PM
Sooooo, any pics yet, or a link to a thread?

Crash00527
10-30-2010, 08:10 PM
Tick tock tick tock.. Over a month and still waiting lol ......zzzzzzz

TinManSC92
11-01-2010, 10:11 PM
OOPS! Sorry about the wait. Been sick and feeling lousy for a couple weeks now. But, I can finally say I'm finished. I've had them on my car and have been driving around with them for a couple of months now. ( from what I can remember)
I've made the mounting brackets shorter by one hole - approx. 3/4 " - and put the original size bolt back in the frame connection. My only problem now is in finding some sort of rubber washer to place at the bottom of the swivel eye bolt to reduce the clicking sounds over rough roads. Can't stand any ratteling or creeking noises in vehicles.

winky
11-03-2010, 01:23 PM
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/winkysrides/lee.jpg

TinManSC92
11-04-2010, 10:05 PM
Alright already! :eek: Next week will be the earliest that I will be able to post the pictures of the finished brackets. I'm not taking the ones off my car, so I will endevour to make another set.

But, you cannot have these! Because you are the 2009 winner of the shootout, you must make your own. :p So there. You mechanical aces must have some sort of handicap imposed to pay for your achievements. And, no good deed will go unpunished either.

BTW Winky, that was a funny post. :D

winky
11-05-2010, 05:25 PM
heres the thing I have a ~~~~~ ton of loonies and toonies that I need to spend
http://rubmint.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/824e5_funny-pictures-cat-is-canadian.jpg

so lets deal eh?

Mercutio
11-05-2010, 06:28 PM
Is this the wrong thread again, or are we talking about tubular control arms?

Crash00527
11-05-2010, 06:43 PM
Yes you're in the wrong thread Bc I don't see any tubular control arms lol

winky
11-08-2010, 12:30 PM
Is this the wrong thread again, or are we talking about tubular control arms?

X1 pic or it didnt happen

Splattered
11-09-2010, 01:36 AM
X1 pic or it didnt happen

I read this thread and I'd love to see if this is vaporware or not too

TinManSC92
11-09-2010, 09:39 PM
You guys do realize that there have been some pictures already posted of the anti thrust arms in another thread that I actually started a few months ago. There's only been a few modifications of that original design to what you see there.

I guess I just might as well post them on this thread. Would that be helpful?

Mercutio
11-09-2010, 09:56 PM
You guys do realize that there have been some pictures already posted of the anti thrust arms in another thread that I actually started a few months ago. There's only been a few modifications of that original design to what you see there.

I guess I just might as well post them on this thread. Would that be helpful?

This thread is about tubular lower control arms. That's what I'm here for. There is a lot of confusion over what's going on in this thread, and since tubular LCAs are clearly not on the way, I'd be all for locking this thread and putting an end to the confusion.

TinManSC92
11-09-2010, 10:40 PM
The tubular rear control arms were being looked into by Thomas A as a means to eliminate wheel hop. But, as Thomas stated he doesn't have the time to pursue it any further. He also said that anyone else who wanted to continue on with his initial beginnings were welcome to carry on.

There are no tubular rear control arms and never have been. However, there are many of us on here who could probably make a set up if you want some. :D The problem is.... they won't eliminate wheel hop on there own and still have to be connected to the same bushings at the same locations.

There is nothing wrong with the mk viii or t-bird LCA'S except they need to be end restrained because of there instability due to the moment of inertia produced by the excessive thrust produced by 5 speeds.

If you want to reduce weight, I would think the mark viii's are a great alt. But I can still get you aluminun tubular control arms. I just don't understand why?still confusing??

Mercutio
11-09-2010, 11:19 PM
At this point, I don't really need tubular LCAs. But I'm always interested in new products that the development of the MN12 platform alive. There are probably other people who are still interested in tubular arms, even though the Mark 8 option is readily available. So it's not that I have anything against what you've done, Tinman, but the fact that your other thread and this thread have become accidentally intertwined, combined with the fact that, as you say, the original intent of this thread is sort of dead, makes me think that this entire thread is past its usefulness.

No real need, to close it; I'll just unsubscribe, and people who are still interested in either Tinman's efforts or the tubular LCAs can continue to check this thread out.

Thomas A
11-09-2010, 11:57 PM
There are probably other people who are still interested in tubular arms, even though the Mark 8 option is readily available. So it's not that I have anything against what you've done.

No real need, to close it; I'll just unsubscribe, and people who are still interested in either Tinman's efforts or the tubular LCAs can continue to check this thread out.

I was originally looking to develop tubular rear UPPER control arms, not lowers. That was a few years ago, and most people felt there was no real benefit to them, so I dropped the idea.

And yes, this thread has essentially been ruined with all the discussion of an unrelated subject. But considering it was a dead thread to start with, no big loss.

Thomas

XxSlowpokexX
02-22-2012, 09:05 PM
Just as an update for those that dont know. Rear tubular arms are available...However Id like to see an upper arm option

www.performanceartworks.com

seawalkersee
02-23-2012, 08:05 PM
The first thing I noticed is that there is no provision for a spring. Then I looked at the photos and found they used coilovers. I think there is more work to be done than just a bolt in swap. Not that it is a bad thing, but just so you know. Looks good though. That was the kind of thing I was looking to make when I lost all of my time.

SWS

XxSlowpokexX
02-23-2012, 11:02 PM
I actually wrote them about the coil overs but no response back

rzimmerl
02-23-2012, 11:30 PM
Aren't they just IRS Cobra coilovers?

DLF
02-23-2012, 11:58 PM
However Id like to see an upper arm option.

A triangulated UCA would only be necessary if the knuckle attached to the LCA at a single point, as it does on the '99-'04 Cobra IRS.

With two attachment points between the knuckle and the LCA, the stock UCA only exists to provide camber control and works fine with the bushings that you already have on your car. ;)

It might look nicer, but it wouldn't change a thing. :p

XxSlowpokexX
02-24-2012, 04:15 PM
Aren't they just IRS Cobra coilovers?

Not sure..I remember talking about cobra coil overs a few years back but Dave D felt they may interfere with tire clearance.

hydroracer100N
02-14-2013, 05:01 AM
The first thing I noticed is that there is no provision for a spring. Then I looked at the photos and found they used coilovers. I think there is more work to be done than just a bolt in swap. Not that it is a bad thing, but just so you know. Looks good though. That was the kind of thing I was looking to make when I lost all of my time.

SWS

Seems like a spring perch could be fab'd and welded to these? http://www.performanceartworks.com/Products.php
I'm a newbe so forgive me if this has been researched....

I'm looking at using the Mark-8 arms but nearly $200 for the "UHMW"? bush'ns seems steep?(is the UHMW material that high $ ?)....do like the split design for install'n.....Found these http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_88_192&products_id=472 Are they a cost effective/sutable alturnative to the UHMW's ???....Or are these the way ta go??> http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_88_193&products_id=476
My 5-speed 90 is emberassing with wheel hop.....Soon to order rear cover brace and poly front dif bushings.....is this the best/cost reasonable first upgrade for wheel hop?
Are their Motor/trans mounts worth the effert for wheel hop.....Will put on my wish list for pour'n money into this pit>(Worse than coke or a younger woman but she and the T-Bird are OH SO FUN ta DRIVE!!)

Super-6 weld+port'n...Wiesco .020 pistons+eagle rods,balanced rotate'n assy, March under drive pulleys and 10% jackshaft pulley, 3" intake+flow master x-40,3"exhaust:D.......160K on fact suspension.:o

Thanks and forgive the off track thread last question and veh descripsion,:rolleyes:
Steve French/Hydroracer100N:cool:

RalphP
02-14-2013, 10:09 AM
Hydroracer - One thing to consider. Since it's a full IRS, I sincerely doubt much of what you're doing at the diff will affect your wheel hop.

Try the Delrin LCA and knuckle bushings FIRST.

Oh, replace the old diff bushings - but again, that flexing won't cause or cure wheel hop, that ain't what's shifting!

Remember, INDEPENDENT rear suspension ...

RwP

XxSlowpokexX
02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
You cant beat the delrin bushings for the lower control arms..That and good tires

91BLOWNBIRD
02-15-2013, 08:14 PM
best wheel hop reducer for me has been tires