Suggestions Requested

[Bill Evanoff]

I request that SCCoA Members give their thoughts on how the idea of SCCoA "Elected Officials" should be handled. For now, SCCoA members only should respond.

I have the following concerns:

(1) Our group is quite large, so how would people get nominated for different positions?

(2) What positions should be implemented?

(3) Since many of the SCCoA membership is not on the Internet, how would they learn of the election and nomination procedure?

(4) I'll stand down from any and all positons but wish to be on a supervisory board. Sort of a "Chairman" overseeing the elected officials. Thoughts on this idea?

(5) Many, I repeat, MANY members do not regularly visit the BBS or have email. I envision that the elections will only turn into a popularity contest from those that visit regularly. How do we differentiate between who is the most popular person vs. those that may likely do the best job in their respective position.

(6) Would anyone wish to create a team to publish the Chargin' Thunder newsletter?

I'll likely think of more issues as they come up. Please submit your constructive thoughts. Those posting a response not on the topic may get edited as necessary to maintain this threads focus. I'm looking for productive feedback, not criticism.

[SuperCoupe]

Wow....Thank you Bill,
I think taking a page from the TBSCEC will point us in the right direction, and I'm sure George Davenport could be very helpful in this situation.


(1) Our group is quite large, so how would people get nominated for different positions?
They "run" for them with a minimum number of nominations needed to proceed.

(2) What positions should be implemented?

Board, President, VP, Treasurer, secretary, (maybe chapter leaders on the board).

(3) Since many of the SCCoA membership is not on the Internet, how would they learn of the election and nomination procedure?
Chargin Thunder, and use a "paper" balloting system

(4) I'll stand down from any and all positons but wish to be on a supervisiory board. Sort of a "Chairman" overseeing the elected officials. Thoughts on this idea?
I personally have no problem with this...good idea, as long as ideas, and votes on issues are taken seriously, and seriously considered

(5) Many, I repeat, MANY members do not regularly visit the BBS or have email. I envision that the elections will only turn into a popularity contest from those that visit regularly. How do we differentiate between who is the most popular person vs. those that may likely do the best job in their respective position.

Not easy...valid concern....have to think about this one

(6) Would anyone wish to create a team to publish the Chargin' Thunder newsletter?
not sure what I could do with this, except that I suggest putting it "online" available to only members using their established password.

Thanks,
-Jeff


PS-This is exactly why I didn't just "give up." I never had ANY intention of just sitting back to watch things go under. As far as the "other" Bird clubs go, I know about all of them, and I'm registered, or a member of just about every one of them. They are all great clubs, and the TBSCEC is one of the best. That said, it does not mean that I can't show a strong interest here to better the one which started it all. I do appreciate the the suggestions though.
;)

[white91sc]

I can't believe it.

I would like to express strong interest in assisting in this effort. I would like to volunteer towards a newsletter committee position (up to and including editor) at this time.

That said I have one large concern. I think there needs at this time to be a period to allow many members to submit membership dues before the ball rolls any further. I know many members that did not renew because of concerns and would now with the potential of action.

Minimal club officers in my experience consist of President, Vice President, Secretary, and Treasurer in my experience. The other officers are as appropriate to the club. In our case an editor for the newsletter and some other positions may be appropriate.

I am not sure of the funding available but I believe notification of elections and nominations via mail of current and past SCCoA members via paper mail may be the most appropriate voting awareness campaign then a grace period to allow for members to reinstate memberships and submit a page about themselves, sort of a resume (since I believe officials should always be elected on their merits) and then paper ballot elections.

Those are some of my thoughts for now.


Adam Mullen
The SC Kid

[SCrazy]

I think Adam is correct the only way to do this would be via mail.

It will take a little while to get bylaws established and take nominations. Perhaps a ballot to ratify bylaws and call for nominations in the next CT then a second mailing of ballots for board positions with a return date of 2-3 weeks.

The list of board members above seems pretty decent. Should we also consider a position for the leader of each regional chapter?

The popularity contest comment is simply a fact we are going to have to live with. Even when we get to the non BBS people will they be able to develope enough support to be elected to a position?

As far as production of CT, I have a small engineering office with a receptionist who spends about 25% of her time reading romance (socially accepted porn) novels. I would offer her time to help in the production and distribution of CT each quarter.

On another note this thread has got to be vindicating for Bill. Two months of people Bitching and now after two days of this thread being active only 3 people have replied. Come on people, get off your asses and let's help to get things back on track.

[luznit]

Ok,just a suggestion or a question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you guy's decided to have an election and voted for official's:
1)How do u call a meeting?(on the net?)

2)How can you write the minute's of the meeting?

3)You have to open an account(non-profit organization)

4)There should be at least two people gonna sign the cheque.

5)Who's going to handle the cash flow?(i assume the Treasurer)

6)How about expenses?(has to be approve first by who?)

Just a little question and concern............suggestion.......

[David Neibert]

On another note this thread has got to be vindicating for Bill. Two months of people Bitching and now after two days of this thread being active only 3 people have replied. Come on people, get off your asses and let's help to get things back on track.

Bill is only accepting suggestions from current members and since the people with the most issues have not renewed or joined because of these same issues, he won't be getting many responses.

I am also disappointed to see that the issue of financial disclosure has been omitted from the list Bill posted. Since this is the core issue, it needs to be addressed first.

Requiring people to pay $40 so that they may offer suggestions on how to create a better club is putting the cart before the horse. It makes more sense to allow everyone's input and when it comes time to vote on the issues, require membership before the vote can be counted.

David

Edited by Bill E
I agree. If ANYONE who has a constructive opinion about this issue wishes to post, they may do so. One does not have to be a member to post their constructive ideas.

Constructive means to "build up", not tear down.

[SuperCoupe]

On another note this thread has got to be vindicating for Bill. Two months of people Bitching and now after two days of this thread being active only 3 people have replied. Come on people, get off your asses and let's help to get things back on track.

I was kinda surprised to see the lack of replies as well Brian. It's kinda like the old saying; "be careful what you wish for....you just might get it." Seems like there were a lot of people who just thought this would never happen. I will admit it's a little intimidating to see these questions, and figure out how things can be done, and it does not look like it's going to be easy! Just was much easier to talk about it, than actually be faced with what the processs will involve!
Regardless, I for one am very happy to see that the future here holds change, and improvement, so as Brian said....lets go people! Any suggestions will be helpful. Now is the time to stand up, and be heard!
As far as these go:

1)How do u call a meeting?(on the net?)

2)How can you write the minute's of the meeting?

3)You have to open an account(non-profit organization)

4)There should be at least two people gonna sign the cheque.

5)Who's going to handle the cash flow?(i assume the Treasurer)

6)How about expenses?(has to be approve first by who?)

Great....valid questions, and concerns...and exactly why we need suggestions, and ideas!
1)How do u call a meeting?(on the net?)
2)How can you write the minute's of the meeting?
It's obviously very difficult to call a meeting when the officers (presumably) will live all over the US, and possibly Canada. My suggestion would be via chat room, at a weekly set time. As an example, every Sunday evening, at 6 pm. The conversation would be saved, printed, and posted. Obviously there would be times when not all can make the meeting, who would then have to respond via email to the rest of the board within 2 days after. I realize this would have to be "streamlined" but it's an idea, and I think it would cover the first two questions. I would have to think more about questions 3, 4, and 5, but 6 would be by the board, and Bill. I also think there would be a good chance that George Davenport could possibly be elected to a position, and I believe he lives at least "near" Bill, so that may be helpful. The checks could be signed by the Treasurer, and Bill.
We can't answer all these questions alone....this is why we need
MORE INPUT AND SUGGESTIONS!!!
Jeff
:cool:

[SCrazy]

Dave....I definately see your point and agree that it would make sense to allow everyone to comment on these things. It may be especially benefical to have input from the people who have actually left SCCoA (I almost typed "the club" here) so that we could address the specific issues that drove them away.

And yes, fiscal disclosure should be a big part of getting the ball rolling and perhaps even the first thing that should be done to truely restablish some level of trust and goodwill.

[SuperCoupe]

Originally posted by David Neibert

Requiring people to pay $40 so that they may offer suggestions on how to create a better club is putting the cart before the horse. It makes more sense to allow everyone's input and when it comes time to vote on the issues, require membership before the vote can be counted.

Dave, I think you have a good point here. Instead of requiring membership, maybe it would be better if "former" members have a say as well. Possibly only exclude people who have never been a member. IMO only former members who are interested in possibly coming back to the club would be get involved anyway.
As far as the "books" go, I still feel as you do, but I guess I see this as a step in the right direction. Maybe we get the election process rolling, then address the issue of the books once the board, and treasurer are in place.

OR, how about it Bill, would you be willing to open the books?
-Jeff

[2TonSuperChicken]

Don't put the cart in front of the horse. The books have been one of the biggest issues all along. I for one will never join if the books are not opened up before elections.

I have been here for about 2 years. I never joined because I didn't see a reason for joining... and when I called up Bill to ask about some parts for my SC and asked about the Club and why I should join he said "you get CT and membership stickers" I'm sorry but I get more for joining the NRA then that like monthly professional grade magazines, pins, tons of stickers, etc... and I pay less for my NRA membership then I would for one year of SCCoA. Forty dollars is more then any other club I have ever seen. I am in two VW clubs that there is no membership fees and the NorCal-LS1.com guys only charge 20 bucks a year. Most clubs don't need 40 bucks a year from it's members to run effectively.

Bill please don't delete this like my other posts to this thread were I was trying to give constructive comments!!

Nathan

PS SCCrazy and others that are asking why there have no more posts in here is because Bill has been deleting post that have been made by people that he didn't want to talk on this issue. Just remember absolute power... corrupts absolutely!!

[TBKHomeworld]

Originally posted by SCrazy
On another note this thread has got to be vindicating for Bill. Two months of people Bitching and now after two days of this thread being active only 3 people have replied. Come on people, get off your asses and let's help to get things back on track.

I'm with the other guys on this one. I have never joined SCCoA because I never saw a reason to. Since I have been visiting the site (well over 2 years) I have seen the problems here. Why should I contribute $40 to an organization I don't believe in?

I have, however, received a lot of help from these boards, and I feel I have given a LOT back. I'm sure most of you have read my walk-throughs on various items in regards to tranny work, rear-main seal, and I'm about to do another one on engine mounts.

Do I deserve a vote/say in this....I feel I do, because I have given to this community....am I going to get one as a non-dues paying member, probably not.

I am not going to comment on Bill's questions until I am told I can (by him or Ron). Until then I am just responding to defend why I have NOT posted.

Bill, Ron, George, or other moderators. If you feel you should delete this because it does not belong under this topic, then I respectfully request you move this, and other related responses, to a new thread under non-tech. So members can know as to why we aren't responding.

[Nettlesd]

We could reach a large popluation at the Nationals.

Reaching members by groups. We should be able to match members up by data Bill and Ron could provide.

* Members with email.

* Members who can only be reached by mail.

I also think that the Nationals would be a good place to communicate with one another about the direction the SCCoA needs to go.

[SCrazy]

In the interest of openness that will be required to make things work I think that no response should be deleted from this thread. If someone is full of **** or not being a constructive part of the discussions then we'll just have to ignore the disruptive comments.

If responses are being deleted then trust me plenty of people will know about them through the other boards and unless we have the opportunity to judge the content of the posts for ourselves suspicions will abound about the earnestness of these discussions.

If something is posted that is BS or incorrect I think at this point that the erronious comments will need to be disproven or the SCCoA's position defended, at least for a while.

On another thread (I can't find it now) Bill stated that club finances will be discussed in the September newsletter. I think that is fine but would like to see things move a little quicker in these forums and discussions.

[2TonSuperChicken]

Originally posted by SCrazy
On another thread (I can't find it now) Bill stated that club finances will be discussed in the September newsletter. I think that is fine but would like to see things move a little quicker in these forums and discussions.

You know why you can't view it? Because Bill or one of the other Mod's deleted it. :rolleyes:

NOT TRUE!!

2TonSuperChicken: Please get your facts straight before posting. The mention of the Dues issue in the September Chargin' Thunder post is here:

http://209.15.55.25/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7700

To Everyone: Please try to keep this thread on topic. I believe the majority of members and BBS posters alike want to make this a better place. Wisecracking and rude and hateful comments do not help the cause to make the SCCoA a better place.

edited by George Davenport (you'll always know where I have been)
END OF RANT

[blkthndr]

I rarely, if ever, delete threads, so please refrain from accusing me of deleting posts.

Thank you.

[TBKHomeworld]

To Everyone: Please try to keep this thread on topic. I believe the majority of members and BBS posters alike want to make this a better place. Wisecracking and rude and hateful comments do not help the cause to make the SCCoA a better place.

edited by George Davenport (you'll always know where I have been)
END OF RANT [/B][/QUOTE]

George,

I full agree with this. I would have no problem sending $40 to this club when it is on the right track. I will go ahead and compile a list of answers to Bill's questions in hopes that my 2 cents will matter as a possible FUTURE dues paying member.

P.S. - I know you were responding to Nate, same with Ron, but I hope you guys weren't thinking the same towards me about deleting my post comment.

[2TonSuperChicken]

Ron,

I did not mention you specifically..... nor did I imply you. SO YOU refrain from throwing accusations around.

Thank you,
Nathan

edit by George Davenport

Because Bill or one of the other Mod's deleted it.

Nathan, at the risk of being redudant or seen as picking on you, I must say Ron is a Mod(erator) on the board. But once again, we are digressing from the topic and everyone can see you are the leader once again! I'm with you on wanting to change things, I'm not with you on your tactics. Don't dilute your message with these kinds of posts.

[SuperCoupe]

Originally posted by Bill Evanoff
Those posting a response not on the topic may get edited as necessary to maintain this threads focus. I'm looking for productive feedback, not criticism. I sincerely believe if you have a valid point, idea, or request...post it. Nobody said people can't open a new thread if bashing, and negativity is their thing. We were asked for ideas, and suggestions to the questions put forth. I think it would be nice if we could stick to doing that. There is no possible way to make every single person here happy nomatter what is done, or how hard we try. We can only hope to make this a better place with a large majority of members who are satisfied, and happy. It's obvious that Bill is at least willing to consider a major change. I would also like to see other things changed as well, but we have to start somewhere. If you post here, and have it deleted, remember, you posted something you knew was questionable, and took the chance of having it edited, or deleted....as noted in the very first post. I do NOT mean to offend, but it's pretty simple.
-Jeff

[gldiii]

The question of who is a member, who was a member and who isn't a member is blurred by the BBS portion of the SCCoA. I believe we do need to give some kind of preference to people who have paid their dues to the club. The people who have recently left for various reasons are a gray area that needs to be addressed. These people were valued members at one and many genuinely want change. We will have to collectively figure out a way to address their concerns. Then there is probably the largest group of people who have never joined, but enjoy the information the board has to offer. That is a much tougher call. I agree that they have valuable opinions and ideas as well. I haven’t quite figured out what my recommendation would be on that population.

As you well know, the nature of the game at this stage is compromise. While would never say to an SC owner to “just take it or leave it”, it is clear to me that not everyone of us will get what he or she wants in the ensuing struggle. I truly hope that we can ALL compromise enough to stay together. Or at least be adults, shake hands and say we tried to work it out. After all, the promotion of the car is what it is all about.

You know, I actually embrace the idea of a couple of clubs. Because we seem big enough and diverse enough to support that right now. What I cannot tolerate is cannibalizing one organization for another. I personally know the leaders of all these organizations and I know that is not their mission statement! So talk UP and work with whichever one you prefer. And remember, none of these organizations are mutually exclusive. Long live the SC, ‘cause I got too much $$$ in mine for it to die!!!!!!

[2TonSuperChicken]

So basically only current members and people who left are the only ones we can voice an opinion.... that is pretty pathetic

Edited by Bill E.
Nathan, if you have a constructive ideas, then please post them.

[TBKHomeworld]

Nate,

I don't think George is saying we are out of the game here. I think that he is just saying our ideas won't have as much pull. HOWEVER, posting our ideas/concerns and thoughts here, if they are good, meaningful, well-thought out, and articulate, could very well make DUES paying members like them and go for it (Which means they would talk-up and vote on OUR ideas). All we have to do is get them to like our ideas.

This is pretty easy at this point I believe. Most people are being pretty open minded about this.

But to keep them looking at this thread in a serious way I think we will all (me included) have to drop the accusations and pointing of fingers. I think you, even though not a current SC owner, could very well have some valid points. Bring them up, suggest them. Do it in a nice way (ya don't have to ram it down their throats at this point) and HOPEFULLY all of our concerns and ideas will be addressed.

Please don't take this as a "nate bashing" thread. It's not intended that way....just remember, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!

[2TonSuperChicken]

Edited by Bill E.
More misc. non-value added comments.
Please post constructively please.

[gldiii]

Nate, man, take a deep breath. Have a beer or whatever. Read this next line slowly: I'm not out to get you.

This thread was designed for people to express their opinion. I expressed a little bit of my own opinion. That's not exactly an edict. I'm just one vote like everyone else.

If you will take a quick read of the passage you quoted from my previous post, you would note that I said I BELIEVE existing members should be giving preferential treatment. They, after all are the reason the thing has made it this far. I also said that THE VALUED MEMBERS who have left for some reason or an other must also be addressed in a reasonable fashion. All I said about the larger group that had never joined was that I had NOT figured out what to do about them. I also said they had VALUABLE OPINIONS. I have been listening to those valuable opinons stated in varying degrees of tactfulness for much more that two years. I see no movement here to stifle the ideas from non-members. The fact that most of my posts have been off topic and geared to that faction should be proof enough of that fact.

I never even broached the subject of SC ownership in my post. (That is pretty pathetic, in and of itself.) But since you brought it up, I would say anyone who has a love or interest or potential interest in the SC world would be eligible for membership. Heck, even GTP owners are welcomed and assisted!

I understand your position on membership and who gets heard. I also understand your position on the SCCoA finances. I think everyone does. But neither you nor I is actually making policy at this time. We are offering up suggestions on what to do. It should be more than obvious that there is going to have to be some serious compromise for us all to be under one banner. I'm willing to have that dialogue and see what can be worked out.

[Casey Weikert]

Is this a pissing match or what?
I remember a few years ago alot of people thought Bill Hull was no a good s o b Anyway point is it seems like history is repeating itself. Is this a business? Is this a club? Is it a website? NO, its a way of life. People own these cars to make a statement. WE want to be different than all the Mustang and Camaro drivers that are everywhere. WE enjoy going to events like World Ford Challenge and being the only group parked together, WE enjoy the friendship our cars have brought us, WE enjoy just sitting around chatting about our cars.
WE need to stick together, without SCCOA none of the above would have been possible, for it is the SCCOA that brought most of us together in the first place.
Negativity never gets a damn thing accomplished, besides annoying pepole and hurtung their feelings.

[cato]

I think that SCCOA is as implied (super coupe CLUB of america) a club, and the people paying dues are the ones who are truly members of the club, if you went to boyscouts meetings and campouts, without being a scout would you expect a say so? granted, given the difference between the two some people should have some say so, but where does one draw the line?? it makes it real difficult to let some people in and not others, that makes it a very subjective thing and could lead to preferential treatment. I think the best idea is, based on the # of past members around that are still enthusiasts maybe, if they renewed, as an act of faith and the other people who never were but still opened their mouth to bitch about things joined, that could influence a change. I've been reading on another board about the issues people are having, bill made a gesture of faith to open things up like this, I think the "boycotting" members could make a gesture of their own by paying for one more year, and I think that all the people who aren't/haven't been members should put up or shut up, the premise of a club is to have MEMBERS, if bill takes the money and runs than you're out $40 but know never to trust him again and can tell anyone that asks about it and that this was nothing more than a ploy to get extra $$, but if he doesn't, than you have a legitimate voice in the way things are to be run.

[Bill Evanoff]

May I direct everyones attention back to the original list of questions and concerns, plus those additional ones constructively proposed in the first few replys.

ANYONE (SCCoA member or non-member) is welcome to post their thoughts towards the issues originally brought forward.

[SCrazy]

It would seem to me at this point that (at least from my perspective) we consider things a blank slate and what we will be attempting to do is to build a true club on the existing SCCoA foundation. In order to accomplish this we need to consider input from everyone (as though non of us had yet joined this club), however some of us have joined and when it comes time to cast votes that is the time to limit things to members only (as is true with all clubs).

Bill: I think at this point we still look to you for leadership in this process. The garage door is open and the car is started but I don't think the family really knows where we're going. I would think that a steering committee of maybe 10 people needs to be organized in order to begin to think of bylaws, etc. You, George, Ron, Jeff Stenert, TBK (yea I know but it makes alot of sense)......maybe some of the people that helped organize TBSCEC. Also a quick flash of the club balance sheet would help to ease some tensions.

If the club and SCP finances are mingled there must be a CPA somewhere in the club that can help out, if not I can offer up a couple of hours time for the accountant that works with my business.

Finally (til later) please continue to post regularly (daily at least) and let us know your out there, this will greatly help with moral and keeps things moving along.

edit

oops you snuck in there ahead of me....thanks

[SCrazy]

I looked back on the original list of questions and noticed the concern for people not active on the BBS. That's a tough topic especially when you could be talking about hundreds of people.

I guess that clubs need to hold meetings or have a forum to have discussions. Those members who don't attend the meetings will obviously have a reduced level of activity within a club. These boards seem to be our forum.

So that's all well a good in the long term but what to do as we begin to reorganize and need to communicate with everyone a number of times over a relatively short period of time. Mail is the only answer (or flood internet cafe's and public libraries with grease handed SC geeks.....um no). And quarterly issues of CT are way to slow moving so let's think about mailings.

1) Proposed bylaws and a ballot to ratify the bylaws.
2) Call for officer nominations
3) Ballots for officer elections

Wow some quick math says that's like $1000.00 worth of mail.

If we moved quickly perhaps the first mailing could be included in the September CT?

[SuperCoupe]

Please realize that this suggestion is only for the voting process. I feel that all should have a say here for suggestions (my disclaimer!)
OK...I have an idea. Even though I feel strongly that only members should have the full rights of the club, former members will be counted.(one point I have is that if someone has no interest in ever possibly joining, I feel that they should not have a say in the voting process....only seems fair) How about something like this for people who have been seriously involved with the boards, and the club, but have never joined:
What if we put up a "temporary membership form" for people who are not members. Kinda like a "letter of intent"....based on the honor system. They would fill it out, and get a temporary membership number with a promise to join within 90 days unless their satisfaction issues are not met? No membership package, or issues of CT until the membership is paid in full? How would you guys feel about that? Obviously Bill would have to OK this, but I think it's a good, fair compromise to address this situation. We would have to work out some of the finer points, but at least these people would have a say, and this would "satisfy" both sides. Personally I feel that only members should have the rights of the club, former members definitely need a say as well if there is any chance of their return to the SCCoA. We have the opertunity to increase the membership as long as everyone is willing to compromise.
As Brian statedI would think that a steering committee of maybe 10 people needs to be organized in order to begin to think of bylaws, etc. You, George, Ron, Jeff Steinert, TBK (yea I know but it makes alot of sense)......maybe some of the people that helped organize TBSCEC.
I agree, and feel this is a good idea, only I would nominate Brian to this as well....he has some great ideas, is a very fair, and unbiased person, and Adam Mullen (White91SC) as well.
-Jeff


PS-PLEASE guys....let's try to stick to addressing the issues in a mature, and polite manor. Bashing, and flaming ideas, and or people will NOT accomplish anything.
;)

[Mike8675309]

It's amazing how hard it is for people to stay on topic. Bill asked for ideas and the majority of the posts are about who should be able to give ideas.

Crap, if they don't want your idea they'll ignore it. Bill is giving every appearance that he is willing to move ahead. Rather than fighting it, why not help it?

Here are my thoughts towards Bill's questions:


(1) Our group is quite large, so how would people get nominated for different positions?

I would suggest a process similar to what you find at not for profit organizations. A board that is made up of no more than 7 individuals. Then a subassembly of committees that each have one representative on the board.

(2) What positions should be implemented?

Thus you have a board made up of: President, Secretary, Treasurer, Communications Director, Benefits Director, Events Director.

The Communications Director would have a committee responsible for: Website, E-mail, Chargin Thunder, Mail
The Benefits Director would have a committee responsible for : Member Discount programs, Communication with Manufacturers (Ford, ESM, Magnuson et al)
The Events Directory would have a committee responsible for: Member Events, SCCOA participation in larger events.

I think that all Board members must be required to have at a minimum e-mail. Thus a listserver would need to be created to support board communications. There are plenty of free e-mail services out there. If necessary we might be able to arrange something for board members to have a PC or something that floats around to board members for board business only. (That's what they do for The Lions)

(3) Since many of the SCCoA membership is not on the Internet, how would they learn of the election and nomination procedure?

Initially it should be via regular mail. At that time a request for a valid e-mail address should be issued as well. Thus communication with members that don't have e-mail will continue via mail. Those that return an e-mail address will get further communications via e-mail.

(4) I'll stand down from any and all positions but wish to be on a supervisory board. Sort of a "Chairman" overseeing the elected officials. Thoughts on this idea?

Rather than Chairman. How about Club Organizer which is non-elected. You would have one vote on the board. Tie breakers would be determined by you.


(5) Many, I repeat, MANY members do not regularly visit the BBS or have email. I envision that the elections will only turn into a popularity contest from those that visit regularly. How do we differentiate between who is the most popular person vs. those that may likely do the best job in their respective position.

Initially I would highly suggest that an interim board be appointed by the current officers of the club. The interim board would be responsible for arranging the election for the final board while keeping the club operating.

(Just noticed others had mentioned a steering committee which is likely better than an interim board. Regardless, this process would not be fast and would require responsible people be involved in directing it)

I think it would be inevitable that popularity play some role in it. But I would also suggest that those running for election need to present an outline of what they they can bring to the position. Remember only a small number of people visit the website when looking at the total number of members. If we do this by mail so that all members are hit, those that are not on the web will play a larger role than those on the web. (until more members get on board)


(6) Would anyone wish to create a team to publish the Chargin' Thunder newsletter?

This could fall under the Communications Director.

Full financial disclosure would be for the elected board to decide once elected.

[Micahdogg]

Do you plan on handling dues still or is it your intention to let the elected officers be in charge of the SCCoA's funds and spending?

Micah


Bill E's answer:
Excellent questions. This subject is up for debate currently. I'm open to change. Please post your ideas.

[FearThis SC]

Just open the books BILL, let us see them/it. That will show that you are willing to work with the majority of those that have posted here. TBSCEC has its books open 24/7, we should take a look at that board for suggestions and comments.

This post is in no way bashing BILL nor any others. Just seems that this is the right thing to do at this present time! Please address this issue, would make a world of difference in the eyes of most that post to this board! Plus you may even gain more paying members by doing this!!!!


Cheers,
Calvin

[2TonSuperChicken]

Nat said, "I GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!"

More non-value-added rants edited by Bill E.
If you wish to stay on the topic Nate, then your posts won't be edited.

[wwwtbirdforumcom]

Just my opinion here but this would be far more work than it is worth....

[tbirdsc357]

I think what Bill is trying to do is a step in the right direction.

(4) I'll stand down from any and all positons but wish to be on a supervisory board. Sort of a "Chairman" overseeing the elected officials. Thoughts on this idea?

I think everyone should know that if the "books" were meant to be seen it would have been showcased already. So quit asking about it because in my opinion you will never see it. On that note...Bill has offered to step down and let all those with the many suggestions on how to "properly run the club" have an opportunity to do so. It's time boys....... PUT UP OR SHUT UP.


(5) Many, I repeat, MANY members do not regularly visit the BBS or have email. I envision that the elections will only turn into a popularity contest from those that visit regularly. How do we differentiate between who is the most popular person vs. those that may likely do the best job in their respective position.

Since you have everyones mailing address here's what to do..... round 1, send out a letter informing people that new officials will be appointed and ask all those interested in the various positions to RSVP. Round 2, send out a form with the names of those interested along with the position they are applying for and ask each member to return the ballots with their choice. This way you are sure to get every member and former member.


I hope I have not offended anyone because that was not my intent. Good luck......for the betterment of the club.

[wwwtbirdforumcom]

Does this really seem like a club? If so - then why the high dues? - THis really seems like a nice cash cow for whomever started it - just because you call it a club does not make it so. This is a small business - hell I run a club at tbirdforum.com and its free and always will be - it might not be the busiest site on the planet but people like it. all this stuff about bylaws and officers and such - sounds like people wanting to be part of something they have no control over - so... if you want to make this a club - then allow members only and just admit its a small business - then you won't have to worry about server bandwidth and ask for donation on top of your membership fees (high already).

[SuperCoupe]

When this post gets back to discussing the issues, can someone let me know?
Paul, we have discussed all the topics you mention extensively. Those of us who care about this "club" would like to work to make it better. If you don't think that it's worth it, that's fine, but....MANY of do. (BTW the TCCoA also charges 40 bucks, and you basically get nothing) Again,... we were asked to address the questions Bill put forth. WHY can't we do just that? With all this nonsense, I wouldn't blame him if he just retracted this opertunity for an election. The more this post goes on , the more I see the need for a small commitee to make some of the decisions. I never would have thought that submitting constructive ideas, and suggestions would be so difficult. If you have other thoughts, concerns, or complaints please post them in the NEW THREAD (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8619) . I doubt this will work, but it's worth a try.
-Jeff
:rolleyes:

[TBKHomeworld]

I am sure other people on here responded the same way, but here is my two cents.

Originally posted by Bill Evanoff
(1) Our group is quite large, so how would people get nominated for different positions?

I feel that a 'campaign' would be a good thing. For each person that wants to run for a specific postion they would have to do compain speaches (this would be via email and/or snail mail of course). Everyone would be required to have their speaches to you by a specific date. This information would be published in one of the charging thunder magazines along with a letter as to why they received them. Speaches can be from 100 to 500 words. Anything past the 500 word mark gets dropped (no exceptions). This will make sure the issue is not over sized and extra expensive. I think the way canidates are picked is simple.
a) They have to WANT to do it
b) They require at least one person to 'second' their canidacy.

I think this is pretty simple and makes it easy (obviously this is not 'website exclusive' but there WILL be 'website exclusive' offices. IE: Extra Moderators, Flash designer, etc. (This will not take Ron's job away obviously)

(2) What positions should be implemented?

a) Four board members:*
...1) Treasurer
...2) Webmaster (imho this should stay with Ron if he is willing)
...3) Charging Thunder editor. It will be this person's responibility to design and publish the magazine. This position will be VERY time consuming and it might be better to have a few 'assistants' under this position.
...4) Events planner - This person will plan events that SCCoA is involved in and directly operates (meaning they decided to have a meet and coordinate the ENTIRE event).

b) Board head: (this would be you Bill). It's your job to be into everyone's business. You should know how the quarterly issue of CT is going, what events are planned, how much dough the club has, and what Ron is up to. You will also be the tie breaker (if there ever is one). You will play a key role in this. If the people aren't performing, then it's up to you to let the public (us) know about it. A poor board member will quickly be hated by the 'mob' and we will generally agree on an impeachment. With a new election. Obviously this will not occur very often (if ever) because the people have to WANT this position to begin with.

c) Moderators: These are seperate and apart from the board members. A board member CAN NOT be a moderator. Obviously Ron will always have this positon, but the other positions should not have this ability. There should be 'elected' moderators to the board. (I think George does a great job right now.) If these other positions are created, then the people will be worked...hard, and don't need the extra headache of 'moderating' the board.

*Board members will handle the week-to-week stuff with the club. Location is not an important issue here, but I feel they should at least have email ability so all discussions can occur via email. This allows for someone to create 'minutes' of the various meetings and there is a public record of it (C.Y.A. type thing)

(3) Since many of the SCCoA membership is not on the Internet, how would they learn of the election and nomination procedure?

As mentioned above, Charging Thunder would be a critical instrument in this procedure.

1st issue - Put out the info about all of this. Allow them to submit speaches if they desire to be in an office. Let them know it's critical they at least get an email account (You can do this through Juno for free)

2nd issue - Put all of the submitted speaches in this charging thunder, along with a ballot. All speaches will also be placed on the forum/website along with a printable ballot that has to be mailed in. ALL BALLOTS ARE MAIL IN ONLY BALLOTS. No internet submission. This keeps it 'somewhat' safe from hackers

3rd issue - Post the results of who won which position.

(4) I'll stand down from any and all positons but wish to be on a supervisory board. Sort of a "Chairman" overseeing the elected officials. Thoughts on this idea?

Discussed above

(5) Many, I repeat, MANY members do not regularly visit the BBS or have email. I envision that the elections will only turn into a popularity contest from those that visit regularly. How do we differentiate between who is the most popular person vs. those that may likely do the best job in their respective position.

This is why I feel that a ballot should go out with the Charging Thunder that has all of the speaches in it. That way EVERYONE in the club, if they care too, can vote. They will go simply upon the information in the speaches.

(6) Would anyone wish to create a team to publish the Chargin' Thunder newsletter?

Sounds like Adam has stepped up for this.

I'll likely think of more issues as they come up. Please submit your constructive thoughts. Those posting a response not on the topic may get edited as necessary to maintain this threads focus. I'm looking for productive feedback, not criticism.

I wanted to add a side note: To this point I have only really yelled about the website issues (server, connection, etc). I have since started a rather good discussion with Ron on the subject. (The thread can be found on this board). I have no problem giving my advise and opinions on this subject matter.

Anything that deals with the SCCoA as an organisation is just added bonus at this point. I hope that SCCoA continues to be a large organisation of members, and I REALLY hope it grows.

SuperCoupe mentioned having a "temporary membership". I would be fully for this and would sign up. If things changed for the better, then I would CERTAINLY be glad to send in $40 and become a paying member. However, after agreeing to do that, if nothing was being done, and elections, for whatever reason, faultered, then I would withdraw my name. Basically there has to be positive forward movement in this for my money to be submitted.

Added suggestions: I think a yearly SCCoA sponsored BBQ (In various locations every year) would be a great idea. The SCCoA should get in contact with various magazines and let them know about our cars, the organization, and invite them to events. It's hard for small even organizers (like myself in the past) to get magazines involved. It requires a "bigger" organization than that. SCCoA should attempt a day at the Ford factory were our birds were built (if it still exists) so we can tour it.

[SuperCoupe]

TBK,
I think you have some good ideas there, and it's great to see someone getting back to the issues we were asked to discuss. Anyway I agree with most of what you suggest, but I'm not 100% sure I agree with the "board-moderator" suggestion. Obviously this would affect me. I feel it would depend on the person, what position they hold, and especially which forum they moderate. I only moderate the NE chapter board, and it's basically just getting rid of outdated posts, and or mistakes........it's VERY easy. I would suggest leaving it up to the person, Ron, or Bill. As an example; if Bill, or Ron saw that a moderators responsibilities were "lacking", they would ask the moderator to step aside, and concentrate on their club position. Well it's just an idea, and you may have the better one here. It's just kinda hard to say now. As most of us have jobs anyway, I don't think any of these positions would require "full time" attention, nor do I think anyone would expect that from these volunteer positions.
Here's a question off topic, but would these "campaigns" involve the "flash" animated "elect me" banner type signatures I have seen on the TBSCEC? I can understand a small campaign motto, with some info on the candidate in the signature, but IMHO I think that the huge animated GIFs unnecessary, unless people can just place a link to them. You especially (Rich) know about the bandwidth issues we have right now, and I know MANY of us have gotten the "sorry server too busy" message, so I think limiting our campaign advertisments in signatures to non-animated, simple signatures might be a good idea...not to mention that not everyone has the ability to produce these.
How about Bill setting up a new thread for those who want to run for positions? Just to kind of "state our intent." Then like you said, we could email, or snail mail our election speech to Bill. Then in turn Bill could post the speeches for nomination, and secondary votes? Hopefully things would be narrowed down enough to start the process from there.
Also, does anyone feel like we should put up the office positions with "position (job) descriptions?" Just so everyone knows exactly what the responsibilities of the positions are?
-Jeff

[Deep6]

I've been waiting intently fo this, and I am finally happy to see that we can rescue this sinking ship. The point of this is to save the club and make it better than ever.

It's gonna require alot of BST (Blood, Sweat and Tears). But anything worth having in life is something to work for.

Anyway, I am not trying to be inflammitory or derogative toward bill, but I am going to bring up some issues here that may seem like old/dead news, and it might dig up some stuff, but it looks like it is time to wipe the slate clean, remove all the dead skeletons from the closet and bury hatchets here.

So I've got to start off on my suggestion list. Everyone here has contributed some really great ideas that would allow a democratic voting process as well as some quick methods of voting and counting. Just remember folks to prevent fraud on the "paper" ballots, we would need someone counting member #'s so that way no one voted twice. Bill to address the issue of a popularity contest, face it, most elections these days do dissolve into popularity contests (witness good ol'e Dubbya). At anyrate, folks who get popular around here are the ones who donate most of their time. I put an emphasis on donate.

Let's be frank bill, if the club is technically registered as a business in the state of Ohio, that's gotta change. We'd be looking at somthing that would always be trying to "profit" from it's members. I think for many folks that just doesn't sit well with them.

The Parts business, needs to be SEPARATE. I've been coming to website since late 1997. So I've seen some changes here and if it wasn't for the this club I'd probably be driving a 4th Gen F-body with a V-6 in it.

Keep the parts business as the profit maker for the business owner. Now bill, the issue with CT. I didn't say anything before, but quite honestly I was disappointed with my last issue. So I suggest that setting up an editorial CT Commitee with a senior editor and a cadre of "writers" would be the best way to go. The senior editor would be responsible for coordinating content and deadlines for the "writers" and also helping to get the newsletter printed and mailed ASAP. I also suggest smaller typeset (so more info can be packed into every power packed page) and color printing used (sorry the 200x200 DPI B+W just isn't cutting it for me).

I understand that this costs more $$$ and that is what this post is about anyway. How could we afford that. Well, I say since the Supercoupe Performance INC will now be separated from the club, it as well as other vendors should actually PAY (dare I say it) for their advertising in the newsletter. This is how other magazines are run. The measly $25 per year subscription for 12 issues doesn't even pay for the lights. It's the advertizers paying for ads. I would love to get a CT with ads in it from SCperformance, mn12performance, SCPI, magnuson, coy miller etc etc. You get the point. I'm giving an idea on how to create additional revenue to operate the new giant that CT will become.

In addition to that I have to give Adam Mullen MaD PrOpZ Yo for volunteering for the "senior editor" position. The dude is in the hospital and he's contributed thousands of man hours to the clubs to make them a better place to be. As such, I will volunteer to be one of the writers. I wouldn't mind spending some time, doing research and interviewing members (if even by phone) to write a 2-4page article per month for CT.

Fiscal disclosure is the Main issue here and I do know that until you pull that thorne out of your side it will continue to plague the club.

Keeping an open door policy on the internet usage is the way to go. Hell I was a "lurker" here for about 2 years. It's a great way to attract new members to the club.

BIll even if you have to raise club dues (yes, I would pay $60 per year if I had to) to add additional value to a membership it would be worth it. Right now many feel cheated by poorer quality CT's and 1 sticker for their car. Where were those membership discounts that I was promised? Not just at SCPI.

This is something that would obviously need to be negotiated between the club and vendors. Yes, bill your own club will be negotiating with you for group buys with their membership #'s. That's what you have to do to make sales.

I was hoping that this being a national club, that I might be able to use my membership at more vendors possibly to get in on group discounts and or single purchases like automatic 10% off on non-sales items or something to that effect. Point is bill, people don't buy a price, they buy value. Even if it costs a little more such as increased dues, it's worth it by adding a bigger value package to it.

All of the other suggestions that I have read so far seem like great ideas ( I especially like the online CT) unfourtunatly that cuts out the members who don't come to the site. OH, you should also make past CT's available to non-club members. or do you already do that?

I think that the bottom line is for this whole process to move foward quickly and efficiently (just like Thomas Jefferson intended it), a "rescue" committee should be put into place RIGHT now. Exact registered club members should be made public (not their names, just #'s), Costs of web hosting, Costs of CT etc etc. Let folks do their own math as to how much "profit" is left over.

I think this would be a good move to turn the club "not for profit" and focus on your business for the personal monetary rewards. This would also give you the time to improve your business (any business no matter how big etc, can benefit from improvements) and offer more products and or slash costs, offer more group buys, work closer with manufacturers to ensure quality standards, you get my point bill.

Many of us don't hate you and in fact we appluad the work that you have done over the past few years keeping the club going. But little by little you've had to get people to help you, Ron, George, and even Patti. You're right bill, it's time to separate yourself from the club as the sole pres. and "retire" to a position of mostly "advisory" capacity. There will be teething pains as the new "government" is put into place, but we have to create the by-laws ASAP. Even if it means an internet poll. By-laws can always be amended by the elected officials once put into place.

Bottom line is this, separate the club from the business completely and this means going as far as changing it's business structure. CT should be run like a magazine. Books get opened and stay opened. A representitive board will decide how and when to approprate funds, with full accountability to all members. We all want the club to get better not worse and this isn't a situation of a bunch of money grubbers trying to steal themselves a peice of the pie.

I know that I have strayed a little bit off the topic of your original questions, but I feel that we cannot take care of those additional problems until some of the more "foundational" problems have been addressed. Times are tough and membership is only going to dwindle to keep the club from collapsing under it's own weight, we need to keep membership high. Everyone else has provided excellent suggestions for elected officials and paper balloting so I'll leave that be, I cannot think of anything better than what has already been suggested. But do take my suggestions very seriously bill, I've continued to maintain my membership and will renew it for 2003. That is my commitment to the good faith of this club and I hope you will reciprocate this gesture.

[white91sc]

I would like to accept the nomination in its tentative form to confirm interest. I believe that in the reorganization of this club, all existing membership numbers (since I believe it has been held as a running total and not reset each year) should be notified of the reorganization of the club.

I would personally like to hear some carefully organized thoughts and ideas (not to say anything one way or the other regarding any previous posts) regarding what to do about the order for the wagon and the horse on paid membership vs. voting. My thoughts are that it would likely be in the best interest of the club to confine the organization boards to those who have an issued membership number but I'm (not to imply that I am a deciding factor at this point) open to discussion on this. I appologize for some delays on response, I have been ill and do not have internet access at some times that I am actually in the hospital (I was in Thursday through earlier this evening) but my dedication remains even when I cannot reach the computer and I do have a communication network that can be used as necessary.


Adam Mullen
The SC Kid


Originally posted by SuperCoupe
Please realize that this suggestion is only for the voting process. I feel that all should have a say here for suggestions (my disclaimer!)
OK...I have an idea. Even though I feel strongly that only members should have the full rights of the club, former members will be counted.(one point I have is that if someone has no interest in ever possibly joining, I feel that they should not have a say in the voting process....only seems fair) How about something like this for people who have been seriously involved with the boards, and the club, but have never joined:
What if we put up a "temporary membership form" for people who are not members. Kinda like a "letter of intent"....based on the honor system. They would fill it out, and get a temporary membership number with a promise to join within 90 days unless their satisfaction issues are not met? No membership package, or issues of CT until the membership is paid in full? How would you guys feel about that? Obviously Bill would have to OK this, but I think it's a good, fair compromise to address this situation. We would have to work out some of the finer points, but at least these people would have a say, and this would "satisfy" both sides. Personally I feel that only members should have the rights of the club, former members definitely need a say as well if there is any chance of their return to the SCCoA. We have the opertunity to increase the membership as long as everyone is willing to compromise.
As Brian stated
I agree, and feel this is a good idea, only I would nominate Brian to this as well....he has some great ideas, is a very fair, and unbiased person, and Adam Mullen (White91SC) as well.
-Jeff


PS-PLEASE guys....let's try to stick to addressing the issues in a mature, and polite manor. Bashing, and flaming ideas, and or people will NOT accomplish anything.
;)

[Brad]

Hey Bill E....

When the SuperCoupe Club of Western Canada went through some major changes in March, the chapter had to decide what direction we wanted to take the clun in. I planned a meet, had approx 1/3 of our members attend, and handed out a questionnaire. Those who werent in attendance still had a chance to have their say, as they were mailed or e-mailed a copy of the questionnaire.

On that list of questions my members were asked such things as
- a vote on a new club name,
- type of events which the club wanted to participate in,
- the issue of fees - who is willing to pay yearly dues and how much (the chapter is currently run on donations and sponsors),
- If the job that I was doing as president was satisfactory,
- if the chapter should continue its quarterly newsletter and what information it should contain,


Many other questions were asked as well, but you get the idea. Once all the papers were returned, we counted the responses, and based the decisions on the majority answers. These answers are what the club has been based on since April, and we have had the best Summer in the history of the SCCOWC. Now, on a scale the size of the SCCOA it isnt quite that easy, as this process took several months from planning to implementation for my club of just 75 memers, but it worked!!!. Perhaps the next national meet could be the foundation for which to present some changes to the SCCOA's members and get some feedback, and include a list of ideas in the next Chargin Thunder.

I also want to throw my support to Bill Evanoff. I know how hard it is just to keep a chapter of the SCCOA organized and running smoothly, I couldnt imagine trying to do the same for the national club!

[SCrazy]

Seems like we've reached a point where we need to act on all these good ideas.

But, we need Bill to take the first steps. Perhaps Bill you should appoint a committee to get things rolling, empower the committee to work on the clubs behalf, and officially step into your new roll.

[white91sc]

I guess we need to basically restate in short the basic different thoughts and possibilities on each question? Perhaps the proposed temporary steering committee could tentatively speak somehow whether via e-mail or in public view (I have nothing to hide if I am still nominated) and help push this forward perhaps allowing input as a side bar to keep some things uncluttered?

Bill
Brian
George
Myself
Jeff Steinert
Ron
TBK

and any other nominees for a steering committee? Again just a suggestion to get the ball rolling. I know Micah originally brought this forward on another board and expressed interest. I'd whole heartedly support him being on the committee.

Again, I do not pretend to have any authority, I am simply trying to make suggestions to help.

Anyone who wants to make suggestions to me I'm always available on AOL instant messenger or just to talk or ask a tech question, whatever I am ATMAX.


Adam Mullen
The SC Kid

[Deep6]

The steering committee has to be put in place NOW. We've all raised some important issues here and it's up to the steering committee to put in the new order of things. I see nothing wrong with you nominations and I second them. I will also Second Micah as a steering committee member. I don't know what size you guys want the steering committee to be, but I will also nominate Fred holzhauer as well. I'm not sure if he is an official member of the club but I figured that since he has been here a real LONG time as a valued SC member, he ought to help out too!

If no one disagrees to this, I suggest that everyone nominated set up a time for an arranged private chatroom session ASAP.


I have no formal experience running committees or what not, just a guy with lots of ideas. Please steering committee, sit down and put into place new elected officers. Debate these issues and lead the club in a new direction. In the best interest of democracy, make your decisions swift and in the best interest of the majority. I don't feel like waiting 2 years for things to get back on track again. :)

If you need any suggestions or help in anyway, I'll volunteer whatever time I can.

[Angry Elvis]

I nominate Demmit to be a member of the steering commitee

Or maybe even president of SCCOA

[Nettlesd]

For everyone who's made suggestions concerning this post, who's going to be at the Nationals. It would be a good time to meet in person, discuss ideas and maybe even get the ball rolling.

[SuperCoupe]

I had written a long4 or 5 paragraph reply about this subject yesterday, then my IE Browser crashed and I lost like a half hour's worth of thought and typing....sorry but I just couldn't do it over again. Anyway it basically said that I'm in agreement with the committee. I had also seconded Adam's willingness to head up CT, and thought it might be a good idea to have George D as the chairman of this committee. I think we also have to hear from the people on the list as to weather they are willing to be part of the committee. If there are no objections, I'd be happy to help out, but we need to know if Brian, Ron, George, and TBK would be into it.
I'd also like to see Deep6 possibly on the committee, or at least as an alternate if someone on the list turns down a position. Oh and Elvis...pleeze let's not give anyone any ideas! LOL I have no objections to Micah either, someone had suggested 7 members (it should be an odd number for voting purposes). Personally I'd also like to see Fred involved, but I honestly don't think he'd be into it. I think he has enough to do as VP of the TBSCEC.
Another point I had mentioned before my browser crashed, and it might be a bit off topic, and something the board can discuss is "animated campaign banners." I saw many of these on the TBSCEC when they were having their elections. IMO these should be limited, or not allowed to be fair to all who run, not to mention the bandwidth problems that we are all aware of. Some who ran for office set up rather large "Joe for President" animated GIF's in their signatures. I think so that it is fair to all, we should limit the campaigning in signatures to text only (unless a link is provided to a non SCCoA hosted page where you can do as you wish) and no more than 6-8 lines of text. Again this can be discussed by the steering committee.

originally posted by deep6
If no one disagrees to this, I suggest that everyone nominated set up a time for an arranged private chatroom session ASAP.


Great idea...(btw deep6...could I kindly ask your first name?) Does everyone involved have AOL IM? I ask because I have never had much luck with the SCCoA chat system, but think it would be great to set up a time, and place where we can all get together and chat.

I'm glad to see although we need to get this thing rolling now, atleast we're on the same page for the most part.

-Jeff
:o
PS...just a side note, I'm fairly sure that
Bob White Decals (http://www.bobwhitedecals.com/tbird.html) is now offering SCCoA members a 10% discount for anything up to 50 bucks, and 15% off for anything totalling over 50 bucks. Just make note of your membership # when ordering.

[TBKHomeworld]

Originally posted by SuperCoupe
"animated campaign banners." text only and no more than 6-8 lines of text.

I totally agree here. I think that a text only speach is the ONLY way to go. Flashy signs can not be shown in the Charging thunder anyway. when I said campain speaches between 100 and 500 words, this is what I was referring too. Sent to the Charging Thunder and webmaster in a plain .txt format. All font/color/size editing will be done by the editors.

Does everyone involved have AOL IM? I ask because I have never had much luck with the SCCoA chat system, but think it would be great to set up a time, and place where we can all get together and chat.

I have Trillian (which allows for all IM programs to be used in one GUI). I would advise this to be carried out via a group email or via chat room. We can use the SCCoA chat room, but I would insist that we (or at least I) get on via real IRC clients. That way I can have logs of everything. All I would need for this is the IRC address, port #, and room we are going to meet in.

I currently have no problem being on this group, but I think some people here might have a problem with me being on it. I am not a dues paying member. I am not sure how they feel about it.

At this point I REALLY think Bill's input is vital! We can keep on hammering this com. idea out, but if Bill doesn't even like the idea, then it's all for not.

Bill, do you like were this is going? Are you still alive? Any input?

[Deep6]

Jeff thank you for the vote of confidence! My real name is Joe. Adam knows me as well, since we've met at 2 carlisle's in a row. I was there this year, I was the skinny italian dude who waxes his car with "liquid glass" and was applying it in the blazing sun, cooking up hotdogs and drinking my homebrewed beer (and sharing it with those daring enough to try!) >;D (Fred)

Bill, this post has moved quite a bit in the last couple of days. Let us know if we are on the right track here. Or will all of the issues brought up in this post be weighed?

I don't have any IM. And I operate with MSN network/dial-up. I'm sure if I needed to participate in a chat room or a mass IMing I could, if someone showed me how to set it all up.

Now we need to set a date and a time and for the people nominated to BE THERE. I won't be making it to the mn12 nats. I just don't have the $$ and it's too short of a notice to get booked now. I would have liked to go to at least one more SCCOA outing before our new "bundle of joy" enters the world. But it doesn't look like thats gonna happen.

[SuperCoupe]

:rolleyes:

[white91sc]

I think the main reason AOL was brought up is that the majority of people have AoL or AOL instant messenger (AIM) installed (some may not even know they have AIM its on many computers. If you don't have it its a quick download and easy setup and then one person just has to invite anyone with an aol name (or I believe compuserve names work too) into the chat and we can all talk, pretty easy. I'd walk anyone through the process if that's the chosen method but I'll go out of my way for whatever the majority wants to do if necessary, I'm flexible. I do think e-mail would be a mess though, it needs to be either a chat or message board format of some type I think.

As for nationals, unfortunatly I cannot make it due to health problems, othewise I'd be there.

Joe (Deep 6) I would happy to you see on the committee, and about Carlisle (I was going to quote but don't want to get off topic) I would like to note I tried both the hotdogs (never had them with cheese) and the beer albeit a small quantity but that was because of medical reasons. If anyone doesn't think you're an all around great guy tell them to ask me anytime. Thanks for the ride back to the truck, food and drink, and the on ramp acceleration, hopefully the gas money and pic of your car detailed underhood made us even. If not see you next year. I think if we didn't live so far apart we'd probably be pretty good friends. I wish I had some local sc guys, it must be cool for those of you who have a few grouped, I know it's cool when I'm at school and only have to travel a half hour to have some fun. Oh well I'll recover.

Back to the issue at hand, I don't know exactly what happens now. Perhaps we should make posts to nominate or accept nominations for committee membership and go from there? Any objections should come now as well and I should probably remind that this is basically a brainstorming/tentative planning committee for how things can and will be established and not the elections of the club. I'd also like to restate that everything I've said is a suggestion and I don't pretend to be leading or dictating. Finally, and I know that I don't speak for all but I have no interest in taking away the club from Bill in fact I whole heartedly support him participating in this committee and in my opinion (and legal view) he still retains the final say.

So here is my acceptance of nomination and I do not object to any of the nominated.

Adam Mullen
The SC Kid

[TBKHomeworld]

I agree with Adam. I am not trying to take away anything from Bill.

I'm certainly not going to run for a "position" in the club. I don't mind being a member, and I will try to assist in any way possible in the transition....but I feel I am not "canidate" material.

I still feel that at this point we need a response from Bill. He has the ultimate say (since this place is his) and if he likes the way this is going, then he should say so, same thing if he hates it. I just don't see the point in bashing out more and more ideas if we are heading down the wrong road.

[SCrazy]

Been away for a couple of days but I would gladly accept a nomination to help out. A time when everyone can IM would be a great idea and AOL works fine for me.

Anyone here from Bill lately. It seems that he needs to make a decision on moving forward or else were just spinning our wheels here.

[Bill Evanoff]

I'll be discussing the numerous suggestions with a small core group at the MN12 Nats event. It will include Ron DiPaola, Dick Adams, George Davenport, and a few others. I've been discussing this alot with my wife Patty too and she has even had a few good ideas where to proceed.

If there are additional ideas, please post them but be assured that a meeting will happen in the next ten days on this subject.

[banbro]

Well, I think there have been some good suggestions made by a number of people but I don't think it is fair to act on anything until the members of the club who do not have internet or email access are brought in on the loop and have a chance to add their comments.

My personal opinion falls into accordance with thundersc. Being chairman of a committee and a member of city council I know all to well how things take a turn for the worse and require 10x the work by a handful of people to get things back on track. There is always someone quick to bitch but the same person is seldom instrumental in the correction or implementation. Although there are a number of people fighting for change and in a public forum are voicing volunteer-ship I can only hope that the tenacity is strong enough to make it through the tough haul. Because I want to stick to topic the rest of this has been posted at: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8929

(1) Our group is quite large, so how would people get nominated for different positions?
· I think this is something that will take multiple mailings and a few months before it can be finalized. This will also require the participation of all members. I think an initial nomination petition should be included in the next CT and the members who wish to participate will need to mail that petition back for nominees to be recorded (only SCCOA members should qualify for nomination). After those nominations have been gathered and validated the nominees will need to be contacted and their willingness to serve will need to be established before a vote can take place. At such a time a letter will need to be mailed out to members and votes should then be taken. I think the nominees with the most votes should obtain “office” and the number of votes will directly relate to the position they hold, example, the most votes gets top position and so on and so forth. In the event of a tie another mailing will be required for a tie breaking vote, should this result in another tie it would then be decided by the current president and the moderators.

(2) What positions should be implemented?
· President, Vice President, Publication Chair, Treasurer, Secretary

(3) Since many of the SCCOA membership is not on the Internet, how would they learn of the election and nomination procedure?
· See response for number 1

(4) I'll stand down from any and all positons but wish to be on a supervisory board. Sort of a "Chairman" overseeing the elected officials. Thoughts on this idea?
· I think this would require a “CEO” title and would be a supremacy vote. I think this position would be necessary if/when the new structure falls apart.

(5) Many, I repeat, MANY members do not regularly visit the BBS or have email. I envision that the elections will only turn into a popularity contest from those that visit regularly. How do we differentiate between who is the most popular person vs. those that may likely do the best job in their respective position?
· Elections, nominations, nominees and position holders need to be limited to club members. There will always be popularity governing the masses but by keeping this limited to members and handling the voting and nominations via CT it will alleviate this much of this concern.

(6) Would anyone wish to create a team to publish the Chargin' Thunder newsletter?
· If someone is able and willing to undertake this responsibility I think that is great but it should be noted that this will now become a much larger undertaking since each issue will need to be reviewed and approved by the elected club leaders before it can be sent to print and then mailed to the members.

These are my comments to the points listed… now let me say, I do not want to see my club go to this. I am happy with the way the club is run and although there have been server issues and whatnot these are issues that can be resolved and worked through. It seems to me that the biggest bellyache here is “where is the money?” If Bill decides to open the books for all to review fine, if not fine this is a club that those of us who have joined knew the membership fee up front and were willing to pay for that membership. As far as I am concerned Bill can pocket all the profits of the club in respect for the number of hours and schedule impacts running this club causes. For those of you who are still living at home or are still in school… give it a few years, your time will become more and more precious to you and whom you spend it with. Is $40 to high for a membership? Not to me. Is $40 enough to cover expenses for the club? I don’t know, maybe. Would I pay more than $40? Only if there were huge advantages to being a member over not being a member; which is not the case at this time. Can membership dues be enough to cover server expenses and all aspects of the club? Not if there are a majority who prefer to remain freeloaders and the number of paying members is limited. I do think that the dynamics of this club will fall on the shoulders of everyone of us and there will come a time when personal responsibility will need to take place, everything from volunteering time to posting respectively and maturely. Then and only then will we be successful. Let’s face it, as far as car clubs go we are not one of the largest nor are we one of the best known. In a parade the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro clubs are easily distinguished and recognized… we just don’t fall into that arena. We ARE a limited number as a club and even further limited as we branch away from the SCCOA. My point is, we need each other. Not only to keep the spirit of the SC going strong but to encourage, help, innovate, and converse with each other about the one thing we all have in common… a dream that began production in 1989 and lived a short life to 1995.

My additional comments have been posted here, http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8929 if you care to read more about my opinion and feelings for this club.

Thanks…

Brock Banks

[Deep6]

I appreciate the nice attitude that you've given me in return, that's thanks enough. It's too bad we don't live closer otherwise I'd be more than happy to lend a hand and help you on the install of those parts!!

Bill, Good. I'm happy to hear that the 1st step will be taken here and these issues will be discussed. We all hope to hear a detailed report after your core group meets up. Like I said that issues that have been brought forth in these posts have been enlightening for many.

Like I said before, I'd be willing to contribute in anyway I can. Just tell me what you need me to do. I'd write more, but I think I have to respond elsewhere....

[SCrazy]

Brock brings up numerous excellent points and I believe everyone agrees that we would prefer not to go through this process. But, the club is now simply to large for one person to manage and even though people have offered on numerous occasions to help Bill and for what ever reason that has not happened.

This all began for two reasons 1) Not understanding how the $ is being spent, 2) things not getting done and people wanting to help.

If we can find a way to help Bill without any kind of formal reorganization that would be great.

[SuperCoupe]

While I'm glad to see that Bill plans on discussing the ideas, and suggestions, I would have felt better about all this if he had at least acknowleged our idea of a small committee, and stated how HE felt about the suggestions we all provided to his questions. I'm NOT trying to whine here, but we all put our thinking caps on, had some somewhat intense discussions between members, and non-members alike, and pretty much rattled our brains to come up with fair, non-biased ideas to the questions asked. I guess I'd like to know what exactly will be discussed? I thought it was a great idea to get a SCCoA chat going with all involved here...actually how about this: I will be on my AOL IM on Sunday, at 1pm. My IM name is "supercoupe63" I know Adam's is "ATMAX" If anyone wants to talk about anything, just IM me. If we can get enough guys on, I will invite all to a private AOL chatroom.again,
SUNDAY, 1PM ON AOL IM look for "SuperCoupe63" or "ATMAX" I hope we can get a few guys on and talk about things.
Jeff

[resmn12]

hey i am not a member yet but i like the idea here is my .02
the voting should be held at the national meet once a year and the people at the meet that wants a spot in upper ranks of the club should be there and meet and great everybody just like a real campain if some one dont want the position than they dont need to campain then on sunday you hold the voting if you dont have the results buy monday or their is a tye then you get on the net and have a tye breaking vote but the people that was at the meet cant vote again
and you all get together couple times though the year to see how things are going. it is like a small meet that the people that want to get togeher and have a good time and a meeting
then if people dont like how the officers are doing the jobs that they are in you can vote then out next year or you could go a two year term
and as for the people not on the net send them reminders about the national meet and tell them that the voting will go on at the meet and if they want to vote they have to show up if not they dont get a say in the vote i know it is mean but that is what i think should happen
i think Bill should watch over every thing no matter what that way if some body in office has a problem they have some one to ask he will be like the all knowing OZ
that is my .02 worth i hope i helped some if not ..ok i will keep my .02 next time c-ya guys later

[Deep6]

All knowing, but very neutered. Bill, we haven't heard anything yet from the results of your discussion at the MN12 nationals?

Would you care to fill everyone in?

[white91sc]

My appologies to those who missed me. I logged on as soon as possible (I'm still in the hospital for those that don't know) but you'd already gone Jeff. Joe and I did get to do quite a bit of discussion. I'm back with the (800) number so anytime you get a chance give me a call (that goes for anyone) but I did change rooms this morning. The number is:

1-800-456-4543 Ext 2272 and that will work for anyone in the US toll free. It will not work however if I am online in which case just IM me at atmax and I'll sign off or we can chat that way or I have free nights and weekends on my cell phone 239-770-0379 and I have free long distance so I can call you back or else we'll work something out.

Jeff, I didn't get to bring my address book and all in the hospital so I came in a rush, I don't have your pager or home phone number or I wouldve called you, can you do me a favor e-mail atmax@aol.com with your info.

Adam Mullen
The SC Kid

[Bill Evanoff]

As previously stated, the next major announcement for the SCCoA will be in the upcoming Chargin' Thunder. It is currently at the printers and should go out in a week or so.

In the CT I have outlined where I forsee the club going in the future. Suffice to say, some major changes will be happening. The general direction for '03 will be in the CT.

To help in this endevor I have asked a trusted and well respected SCCoA member to work with me next year. The name and responsibilites for this person are in the CT and I'm sure the new blood will invigorate the SCCoA. There are many issues to work through, with the major one being the ability to provide a level of web site service sufficient to handle demand for the BBS. Everyones patience is waning on this issue but please hang in there. We will address this problem.

After the CT is received by all current members the plan will be posted on the web site in its entirety for our guests. Assuming a "Server Busy" note does not prevent you from reading it we'll all know the changes forthcoming soon.

[lube70]

I really do believe that theis club is a GREAT organization. I know that I have as great a love for these cars as anyone out there. I own three personally and have founded the New Jersey Thunderbird and Cougar Club because of these cars.

I believe further, that the elections should be first , nominations, then, elections publsihed in the CT. This would ensure nominations via the board and elections via ballot. Their would need to be an election committee to handle this. The whole Carslile voting thing is no good due to it only caters to East Coast or people willing to travel cross country.

Hopefully, we can all just have fun with our cars and have a good time.



Isn't that all we want???



More to come............



Don

President of the NJTACC

Visit us at :dd (http://www.njtacc.com)

[plev72]

If you were to do the elections at the MN12 Nationals, I think absentee ballets would be a must as well. I think at the very least candidates should present their visions and qualifications in the charging thunder. I am hoping to go to the nationals this year, but I think I might actually be in Greece instead... but as a member I would hope to be able to vote regardles...

Paul

[ponyeeter]

would it be feasible to hold a physical election at Carlisle?
it would seem to me that the people attending that meet would be a concentration of the most die-hard members...just a thought

sorry i posted this reply without reading all the others first, didnt mean to be redundant:rolleyes: