Does anyone have an interest in Road Racing?

[hunterd557]

The answer is a resounding YES! Especially with a car like this. Sure it's fast, and sure it's a hoot to blitz in a straight line until you're out of room, but an old rule of racing, drag racing challenges the car . . . .road racing challenges the driver.

So I propose that we get our cars out there and start making some video's that actually show off driver skill and not just the fact that you can build a fast car. I hate to say it, but anyone with enough time, patience (optional), and money can build a fast car. Hell, if I wanted to, I could go out today and purchase a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and beat half of the guys on this forum in every sense of the word. But where's the fun in that?

WOOOO, look at me, I'm going very straight, very fast, but don't ask me to turn my wheel! LOL! I tease and I kid around, but honestly guys, this is love . . .I just want to see us LOSE the old, PINKS (as someone mentioned it), reputation for going out in a straight line of smoke and burnt rubber.

If you're gonna burn off 2 miles worth of rubber, you might as well be hugging the twisties or kicking that tail end out around a switch-back, right?! I mean, heck, it's not THAT difficult, you have several drivers on this forum, and performance and precision driving instructor myself, I would love to have ANY excuse possible to fly somewhere and teach someone the ways of the road course.

I'm not asking for the world in that I'm not asking for any American Iron SCCA or NASA champions, I just want to see more displays of actual driving SKILL! Is that too much to ask? Is it a fear of a road course . . .or is it a fear of turning the wheel? I'm not sure, LOL! But God, Country and Corps has graced us with these magnificantly handling vehicles that can turn with the greatest, and what do with do with them?!?!

WE GO STRAIGHT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Now I could understand if these were 13 second cars from the factory, but as I explained to Phil, my friend, Allen, has a STOCK 2006 Dodge Ram Quad-Cab that weighs in at amost 5300 pounds . . . .and he runs a 15.4. Translation, he's keeping up with us in a quarter mile stock for stock. LOL! In a 5000 pount FULL SIZED PICK UP!

We have the handling and we have the skill, it's just a matter of getting out there guys. Dave mentioned that I should show some examples of what could be done with these beasts . . . .well . . .here we go.

NO DONUTS, NO BURNOUTS and NO QUARTER MILE!!!!

Pure . . .unadulturated . . . .DRIVING SKILL!

First up, my boy from www.driftingforums.com, Slidebird91

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA9w9rtXm_4

And YES! That's an LX, LOL!


Next up, not TBirds, but you WILL recognize a few of the Fords in here:

http://www.nightmajik.net/DomesticDriftersUnite.WMV

That's one of my videos, hence the name, just shows off what a few years doing FMV sequencing along with a really great video and audio base can do.

But anyhoo!!!! Come on guys! We need to start showing these Jap-Crap and Euro-trash cars that we can do what they do and better. I'm not saying that we should be able to pull a 69 Mile Per Hour slalo like a 4WS Prelude or Mazda Miata (hell look at the size of those cars) but we could at least teach these Mustang and Camaro owners that there's more to life than just lining up at the Christmas Tree.

If anyone has any questions, comments, rants or raves, leave em here, I'll be more than happy to respond to all of them.

Thanks guy,
-Dave

[hunterd557]

Now, here's some more action.

This, my friends, is what we could attempt as well. It's called rally cross, it's generally one car on a "hot section" at a time so it's EXTREMELY safe and extremely fun.

It's autocross on dirt, essentially and the same exact rules apply except for the fact that you're allowed a LOT more tail action. I've had to pull COUNTLESS students off of the track for drifting and sliding while autocrossing, and I always reccommend rallycross. Sure, your car gets dirty, but you're allowed that freedom of slide-tastic excellence. HELL! Sliding a car is pure F-U-N!

The example:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=290318903018591058&q=

-Dave

[hunterd557]

This is what I'm aiming for with my vehicle, it's called the American Iron series and it was invented by the NASA (National Auto Sport Association) and perfected by the SCCA (Sports Car Club of America)

LOL! I just do that because I know that NASA and SCCA guys sometimes have fun with that, LOL!

But anyway, here are a few angles of what it's like to actually push your beast to it's ACTUAL limit and not just stretch it out across a white line.

IN CAR-KINDA LONG!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=664578751376188188&q=

EXTERIOR-NOT AS LONG, HAHAHAHA!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3476000050884611424&q=

Enjoy,
-Dave

[hunterd557]

Now this is IT!

The heart of all precision racing and where almost everyone starts, the most examples COULD reside here because it's so plentiful, but I'll keep it down to three!

Autocross is simply an event in which you are timed from start to finish and you drive on a course set by road pylons. Average race times are anywhere from 45 seconds to well over a minute and the enjoyment factor that is felt while racing is UNRIVALED by any other form of racing.

This IS the MOST difficult and challenging form of racing, my instructors had a joke where they said, "If autocross where EASY, it'd be road racing." HAHAHAHA! That doesn't play over well with the Club Racers, but they understand after trying it once.

Heck, I've seen Club Racers and Time Trial runners go BACK to the club scene after trying autocross because it was too challenging, usually stating that "I like to SEE my competition or at least know that the next turn is to the right!" HAHAHA! I've had fun teasing them before, but we always take shots at each other.

I know one thing, when someone starts out with Time Trials and Club Racing, they usually take a long time to adapt to autocross, however when someone starts off with autocross or rallycross and switches to Club Racing and Time Trials, they usually are adapted within the warm up laps and usually are led to victory through ONLY their skill and determination.

The Videos:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-159058501459060377&q

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5350733370250659703&q

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2390255700344490405&q

[ben m]

well, i think i speek for alot of midwesterners when i say ive cut up a few dirt/gravel roads dukes of hazard style! i just didn't get it on video

[XR7 Dave]

You are on quite the mission there bud! Trying to convert a long lineage of drag racers into road racers. Good luck with that. :p








Actually that was a joke.








Do you really think that SC people have never thought about other forms of car entertainment than drag racing? Do you really think that we don't appreciate what our cars are capable of? If we really didn't care about this stuff then you'd see a lot more solid axle SC's floating around. If you had any idea what a handicap the IRS is at the dragstrip you'd realize just how important our cars handling is to us because if I didn't care about that I would have put a solid axle in the car LONG ago.

You are selling the SC community way short if you think all we care about is drag racing. We simply talk about it most because it's the most universally accessible motorsport on the planet and it doesn't require an up front investment to participate in. It's easy, it's accessable (for most of us), it's fun, AND they allow beer drinking in the stands. :D

Before you preach on about how one-dimensional you think the SC community is you should really attend some meets and participate in what we do. You'd find that drag racing is nothing other than a venue for us to socialize in. It's no different than the choice of restaurant when planning a meet. The food is secondary to the friendships that are cultivated there.

Go ahead and organize some meets and change the venue. Maybe we need a change of pace, but criticizing our current practices is not the best way to invoke change. ;)

PS.
We know what autocrossing is but thanks anyway. :)

[ben m]

well, i think i speek for alot of midwesterners when i say ive cut up a few dirt/gravel roads dukes of hazard style! i just didn't get it on video

[hunterd557]

SWEET DEAL!

See, dirt driving is fun, now all we have to do is get that spirit on the track and get it recorded for that multimedia section, so we can PROVE to the world what how well rounded and versatile these SC's are!!!


WOOT!


-Dave

[hunterd557]

You are on quite the mission there bud! Trying to convert a long lineage of drag racers into road racers. Good luck with that. :p








Actually that was a joke.








Do you really think that SC people have never thought about other forms of car entertainment than drag racing? Do you really think that we don't appreciate what our cars are capable of? If we really didn't care about this stuff then you'd see a lot more solid axle SC's floating around. If you had any idea what a handicap the IRS is at the dragstrip you'd realize just how important our cars handling is to us because if I didn't care about that I would have put a solid axle in the car LONG ago.

You are selling the SC community way short if you think all we care about is drag racing. We simply talk about it most because it's the most universally accessible motorsport on the planet and it doesn't require an up front investment to participate in. It's easy, it's accessable (for most of us), it's fun, AND they allow beer drinking in the stands. :D

Before you preach on about how one-dimensional you think the SC community is you should really attend some meets and participate in what we do. You'd find that drag racing is nothing other than a venue for us to socialize in. It's no different than the choice of restaurant when planning a meet. The food is secondary to the friendships that are cultivated there.

Go ahead and organize some meets and change the venue. Maybe we need a change of pace, but criticizing our current practices is not the best way to invoke change. ;)

PS.
We know what autocrossing is but thanks anyway. :)



Dave,

I do apologize, I never meant to come across as over critical in my analasys. I just got disappointed when every video I saw in the "Multimedia" link was either a burnout or an SC scooting down the quarter mile.

I know it's fun and I realize that there is skill involved with it, especially when seriously competing. I hear that the most drag races are determined with in the first 60 feet of the actual race, so that lets me KNOW that there's a lot of prep into launch and stability of your shifts.


I was more taking shots at the "Multimedia" page than anything else, not really taking a shot at the drivers here on the forum. You'll notice that I even bought to light that we have a forum full of good drivers in my original post. I just simply want to see that actually being practiced. Because honestly, anyone can run a quarter mile. I can teach my little sister to do it in about an hour, give me a day, and I can teach her to do it in a manual transmission, she's a car girl (her dream car is a Ferarri F50 ROFLOL) and she's only 13! HAHA! Not saying that she'd win, or even be able to keep one of those 10 second cars in a straight line, but I could give her an automatic SATURN and I guarantee it would take more than an hour to get her running an autocross event, and I KNOW that we have driver's that are MORE than capable of DESTROYING lap records at tracks and at these venues, however, we're just simply not seeing it.

I'm all about team comeradary and I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here with my statements. I say, take it for what it's worth. If I'm preaching to a brick wall, then it'll be obvious, I just wish we could get some more road and track racers out here on camera and on that DERN page, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Honestly, when I decide to buy a performance car, I see what the majority of the drivers are doing and how they act. The best way to do that is by checking out video's and pictures, right?

Right.

I looked at that multimedia page and was like, "Oh man! I'm going to be ingulfed by a bunch of quarter mile kings and drag queens." I learned different, especially after talking to alot of these members, they are very knowledgeable and EVERYONE I've talked to on the phone or through IM has been EXTREMELY friendly. Hell, Phil and I might have successfully made his cordless phone's battery a little weaker, LOL!

Look, I guess what I'm trying to say and do are two different things and I apologize for the confusion and I'll clarify.

What I want to SEE is more videos of these SC's doing what they were designed to do and that's handle some serious turns at sanctioned events, whether it be privateer, SCCA or NASA.

What I don't want to do is knock anyone for what they do. I don't do the quarter mile, but that doesn't mean I don't respect it, to each his own, right? Using a drag strip as a meeting point as opposed to a restaurant or parking lot is actually pretty intuitive and I think it's an excellent idea. But take a look at that multimedia page and tell me that you think any of us are going to be classified as anything OTHER THAN quarter mile runners. :(

-Dave

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Too many freaking Daves around here.

There are very few Drag only centered SC's out there and the main focus of most of us are a balanced vehicle that can do everything good.

Some like going in and out of cones in a parking lot...(I dont get it)
Some like drifting..(I dont get that either)
Some like road courses..(This I personally like)
Some like drag racing..(This I like as well)

Drag racing to me is two fold. Lets see what all my hard work has accomplished power wise and lets see how well I can get that power to the ground. All without comprimising the handeling except for the change of a tire..And road racing basically tells me how well balanced my whole package was put together and how I managed top once again get that power to the ground.

Running around cones in a parking lot while fun for a little while really does nothing for me. Are we pretending the cones are lil are some kind of vermin that we are avoiding as to not mess up our precious rides? Is there a rush? Yah..I'd get a rush jumping off a building with no parachute as well..Thats just me though.

Now controlled sliding/drifting is another thing I dont understand. Especially when you are doing it on purpouse. Kind of like the dudes that do a wheelie down the whole 1/4 mile..Or smoke the tires down the whole 1/4 mile...Yah cool to watch but why are you doing it?...Whouldnt you go faster if you wernt doing it??...

The way I see it though road racing (very general term) uses a little bit of everything. Any skills you may have obtained as a drag racer, drifter or autocrosser can make you a better road racer. And in the end whichever form of autosports we choose to do its because we enjoy it and or get a rush from it.

Of course I understand why someone likes to drift, autocross, roadrace or dragrace...Just as much as the guy doing a wheelie down the whole 1/4 track.

I think the key thing is to understand there is skill involved in all of these sports and as enthusiasts support anything that lets our sports live in todays world

So yah we should show off anything that can show our cars even running at this point!..>Weather it be drag racing, road racing or drifting...

But for someone around here to approve videos before they get posted and then actually post them.......It's only been a few years since a change in arms around here....And not much is changing

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Because honestly, anyone can run a quarter mile.

And anyone can run a road course...Or around cones..Or drift with enough power (or water)....

But will anyone do it succesfully?.nahhh

We used to drift when we were 16...Didnt seem to hard back then...And we didnt call it drfting..We called it..Being young and foolish (Let the slamming officially begin now)

[XR7 Dave]

Dave,

I do apologize, I never meant to come across as over critical in my analasys. I just got disappointed when every video I saw in the "Multimedia" link was either a burnout or an SC scooting down the quarter mile.



Well, get out there and make some videos then.

[x182dan]

an sc really isn't good for anything, drifting, road courses, dragging, its decent at all of those but good NO. This is the reason why I would never turn the sc into a drag car or drift car. Its a very nice car to drive but to say its great at any of those isn't correct. The reason why you see most sc's draging and doing burnouts is because thats what they are good at. They are full size cars and its a lot easier to give them lots of power than it is to make them handle good. Plus most people would take a car with a lot of power over one that can handle great.

[hunterd557]

And anyone can run a road course...Or around cones..Or drift with enough power (or water)....

But will anyone do it succesfully?.nahhh

We used to drift when we were 16...Didnt seem to hard back then...And we didnt call it drfting..We called it..Being young and foolish (Let the slamming officially begin now)



D, why must we constantly bicker? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'll keep the harsh stuff on aim, or I'll just slap you around in real life, LOL!

So, D, you mean to tell me that if I gave, say . . .a 70 year old a 200hp RX7, automatic or manual, your choice, that they would be able to drift it. No experience in doing it what-so-ever, they'd be able to take it to an open field and drift it??? No, I know they won't, which is why they pay us money to teach people how to do it. The same can be said for autocross or road racing.

Take that same 70 year old, man or woman, and aim that same car down a drag strip and tell them to reach the end. OH SNAP! They did it! How impressive *yawn*. Remember relay races in elementary school, yeah . . .that same principle.

-Dave

EDIT- added the quote from Damon, LOL!

[hunterd557]

an sc really isn't good for anything, drifting, road courses, dragging, its decent at all of those but good NO. This is the reason why I would never turn the sc into a drag car or drift car. Its a very nice car to drive but to say its great at any of those isn't correct. The reason why you see most sc's draging and doing burnouts is because thats what they are good at. They are full size cars and its a lot easier to give them lots of power than it is to make them handle good. Plus most people would take a car with a lot of power over one that can handle great.

Hmmm . . . .well, I don't know, the little bit of "toying" I did with my SC showed me great potential in stock form for this to be a drifting, autocrossing and road racing beast. Maybe it's the potential of the driver and not so much of the car. I really don't know, but I feel that this car, even with the disadvantage of it's drivetrain and weight has the handling package and grunt to get it up and moving on a track with very little modification. This is keeping in mind that swapping out for a Tremec really isn't a major mod in the world of SCCA or NASA.

As far as taking a car with power over handling, yeah, maybe in America or on the drag strip, but I would graldly take a natuarally aspirated, oh I don't know . . .Subaru Impreza RS over a, let's see, what has crappy handling . . .a GNX.

HANDS DOWN! Yeah, it'll run a faster quarter with less work, but who cares, yeah you got down a straight line first, whoopdie doo, lol! Refer to the post above . . .a Dodge Ram out accells a Tbird, but lets be honest here, when he gets to the end of that straight away and it's time to bang that undulating gradually increasing in depth right hander followed by a switchback to the left, who is going to take it faster.

ROFLOL! Probably the Ram because it'll just say F it and drive over the rumble strips, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! But you get what I mean. Come on . . .power over handling . . .ahahahahahahaha, in what decade?!

-Dave

[CMac89]

Anything can be belittled into something small. "Woah, look at what happens whenever I turn my steering wheel, did you feel those lateral G-Forces?" Nothing exciting there. People can go out on roads and take sharp turns as fast as they can just playing around everyday.

I can guarantee you a ride of your life in my 7 second drag car over some lame Ferrari with a cute little pony emblem. There's way more of a rush doing 180mph in a length of 1320ft. than 180mph within 8000ft. Acceleration is key.

In drag racing there is so many different things to try that you don't get bored of it.

[hunterd557]

Anything can be belittled into something small. "Woah, look at what happens whenever I turn my steering wheel, did you feel those lateral G-Forces?" Nothing exciting there. People can go out on roads and take sharp turns as fast as they can just playing around everyday.

I can guarantee you a ride of your life in my 7 second drag car over some lame Ferrari with a cute little pony emblem. There's way more of a rush doing 180mph in a length of 1320ft. than 180mph within 8000ft. Acceleration is key.

In drag racing there is so many different things to try that you don't get bored of it.

See, this is what I was trying to avoid: The avid quarter mile DOMINATOR who takes offense to what I say.

You didn't read my first, 4th or 5th posts did you? You drew an assumption based off of presumptions and to add to it, what you just said is completely negated by the posts listed beforehand.

Cmac, if I had a 7 second car, I know that I would own the drag strip and I would take a lot of pride in it as I'm sure you do. And by reading the previous posts you would know that I've alreday admitted that it takes a lot of skill to handle these 9, 8 and 7 second cars. Why, because you have to be able to keep that thing pointing forward the entire time you're on that track. When you're talking a 15 or 16 second quarter, that doesn't take much, but when you start knocking on the door of SINGLE DIGITS, thats when driver skill comes in handy.

Yes, I'm POSITIVE that I will find more thrill in riding along in your 7 second muscle car than I would blistering around a pylon course in my SC. However, a Ferarri . . .nah, LOL! Just the thrill of being in or driving a Ferarri would bring a tear to my eye.

In the same sense, Cmac, I'm absolutely positive without a shadow of a doubt that I would wreck if I tried to run a 7 second pass in your car. In my defense, I've been instructing with the SCCA for over a year now, and even though I'm still a rookie, I doubt that a lot of the quarter mile killers that are in existance today can hang with me in a turn if we both have the same vehicle. Because in that sense it's driver for driver in a field that they are used to.

You would own me in a straight line, torque battle, however, I think I would hold my own when it comes to a road or autocross course.

No, I'm not going to hold my tongue, but I will give you the respect and appreciation that you DO deserve, it takes a lot to build, own and maintain a car such as yours, not to mention driving it at it's limit, however, before you shoot my plane down, realize that you're not just talking to some punk who likes to drift in the mountains, you're talking to a professional who HAS dealt with extremely powerful cars, and even though I've never made a 7 second pass, nor would I be able to, LOL. I never once attempted to nullify the intensity of your sport.

TTFN,
-Dave

[Ira R.]

St Albans, huh? So where do you do most of your work - Lime Rock??

Ira

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Dave # 1,875,356

Garunteed I can get that same 70 year old to drift by simply telling him to drive the course and gun it around turns...Would he do a good job?..Not in the least bit..But hed do it and garunteed at some point his car would drift..

Take that same guy down the 1/4 mile..His reation time would suck...His shifting would probably be slow....He may even miss a gear or two..But yah hed make it down the 1/4. Just as he wouldnt do a good job driftin... he wouldnt do a good job down the 1/4 mile

Thats the point I'm driving home

.001 seconds in drag racing can make the difference between winning and loosing. SO if you like to just punch it in a straight line and feel the G forces without caring about winning or loosing so be it..But the win is part of the rush..And without skill you will not win and therfore not experience teh full potential of that rush.

Hmm its wet out..Think I'll beat the crud out of my car for a bit....Do some sideways action acros the parking lot...Fun..I liked it...But what skill was involved?..None...So now they have drifting competitions were you need to go through a course and do this..Hmmm now you do indeed need some skill.

One thing about SC owners is that we come from all different walks of life....From American Iron , NASCAR, Autocross, Road Racing, F1.....Drag racing...

Skill is involved in all of the above....See just as you had mentioned "American Muscle Reputation"....Most people I know think of the "Import Reputation" I always wondered if all those stickers made a car drift better? :D

[hunterd557]

Dave # 1,875,356

Garunteed I can get that same 70 year old to drift by simply telling him to drive the course and gun it around turns...Would he do a good job?..Not in the least bit..But hed do it and garunteed at some point his car would drift..

Take that same guy down the 1/4 mile..His reation time would suck...His shifting would probably be slow....He may even miss a gear or two..But yah hed make it down the 1/4. Just as he wouldnt do a good job driftin... he wouldnt do a good job down the 1/4 mile

Thats the point I'm driving home

.001 seconds in drag racing can make the difference between winning and loosing. SO if you like to just punch it in a straight line and feel the G forces without caring about winning or loosing so be it..But the win is part of the rush..And without skill you will not win and therfore not experience teh full potential of that rush.

Hmm its wet out..Think I'll beat the crud out of my car for a bit....Do some sideways action acros the parking lot...Fun..I liked it...But what skill was involved?..None...So now they have drifting competitions were you need to go through a course and do this..Hmmm now you do indeed need some skill.

One thing about SC owners is that we come from all different walks of life....From American Iron , NASCAR, Autocross, Road Racing, F1.....Drag racing...

Skill is involved in all of the above....See just as you had mentioned "American Muscle Reputation"....Most people I know think of the "Import Reputation" I always wondered if all those stickers made a car drift better? :D

They do . . .and the neons . . .well those lights warm up the ground before you drift on it to apply better taction while your bustin your m@d tyte drift jyo!! LOL!

But seriously, like I said, and I'll keep saying, I'm not downing any sport, and I did mention, did I not, that it does take some pretty serious skill to maintain these cars down a quarter mile. Especially when you're doing your own shifting. ESPECIALLY when you're remaining consistant. Trust me, I used to do the straight line drag and street racing, it's fun, it's not the skill involved but the fun that's had when you cross the finish line first, I know that feeling, like none other, it's just that now, I'd rather "work" for my trophy rather than just let the horsepower and transmission do the walking. Call me cynical.

--------------------

Ira, nah, I've been on lime rock, but a lot of my instruction was done at VIR while I was serving in the Marine Corps down at HQMC Henderson Hall in Arlington. It was a bit of a drive, but worth it each time.

See, I'm still a junior or rookie instructor. I don't have a lot of time or wins under my belt, which is why I'm always practicing on the track every chance that I get. Most of my instructional periods have been privateer lessons and side-by-sides (or ride alongs) during track days that are hosted by various SCCA sanctioning bodies.

Honestly, I've been on LR, once, and it was a blast, that track is the only track I've driven in real life that actually has a personallity that alters depending on the road conditions. VIR has is quirks, but they are just that . . .quirks and as with all quirks, they can either be worked out, worked with or worked around. If Lime Rock doesn't like you, or if someone from CT doesn't like you, you simply won't do well on this track, LOL! Oh and then there's running it in reverse order where turn 14 becomes turn 1. That's different, because they'll open up the straight away sometimes and make that pit road part of the actual course. Not only that, LOL, that's the only time where the "kink" becomes a turn and you actually have 15 turns on LR. It's awkward but fun in every sense of the word.


-Dave

[89SCK@t]

I used to go drifting in my 89XR7 and 89SC, you can ask a few of my buddies that went with me those fateful nights. As we all know the M5R2's are the weakest link.

The XR7 pretty much blew up the tranny as I was going through the mountains in Colorado. Have you ever tried to get home in 1st gear and the only way to get there is on the highway?

The SC blew up the clutch and took out the 1-2 synchro with it when I was initiating the drift.

I can tell you though, I loved drifting in these cars. They were stable and the IRS helps quite a bit. The only bad part is that you cannot keep it going for long distances...or at least I haven't. A lot of low end to initiate, but nothing up top to keep it.

To get those long sweeping corners with our cars, like you see in Formula D, it would make us have to get up to 90+ mph, just to keep the ~~~ end out for a while.

What I am trying to say is that our cars are made for low speed drifting, in stock or mildly upgraded form.

What I would like to see is one of the individuals that got one of those new-fangled 1.7l autorotors go drifting...and have some video with it.:D

[hunterd557]

I used to go drifting in my 89XR7 and 89SC, you can ask a few of my buddies that went with me those fateful nights. As we all know the M5R2's are the weakest link.

The XR7 pretty much blew up the tranny as I was going through the mountains in Colorado. Have you ever tried to get home in 1st gear and the only way to get there is on the highway?

The SC blew up the clutch and took out the 1-2 synchro with it when I was initiating the drift.

I can tell you though, I loved drifting in these cars. They were stable and the IRS helps quite a bit. The only bad part is that you cannot keep it going for long distances...or at least I haven't. A lot of low end to initiate, but nothing up top to keep it.

To get those long sweeping corners with our cars, like you see in Formula D, it would make us have to get up to 90+ mph, just to keep the ~~~ end out for a while.

What I am trying to say is that our cars are made for low speed drifting, in stock or mildly upgraded form.

What I would like to see is one of the individuals that got one of those new-fangled 1.7l autorotors go drifting...and have some video with it.:D

LOL, well I didn't want to mention the commercialized version of drifting because those cars each have more money invested into them than you probably make in a year. That GTO has over 100,000 dollars worth of body, power, drivetrain and suspension upgrades. They literally tore it down to the frame, reinforced everything and put it back together again.

A long sweeping turn is quite possible and in most cases in FD those people are traveling upwards of 80-100 miles perhour upon entry anyway. Also, when talking about a stock vehicle, it's not fair to compare it to a professional racing vehicle because in it's simplest for, it's not.

One of those 240sx's from Formula D would drift 100000 times better than a Stock SC, however, a Stock SC vs a Stock 240sx, and the SC would dominate. While on the way home I held an entire on ramp and off ramp sideways, no it wasn't smart but it does show the potential of these vehicles.

The key to drifting and holding longer turns in ANY car is not the power or the torque but the momentum, inertial and driver lunacy. Because you can have a great driver behind the wheel, but if he freaks when the back end starts to slide out, his better judgement will kick in and he'll either spin with the slide or correct it before it gets out of hand.

I could go on all day about this because this is the same challenge that I met with my E30 BMW. Everyone though because of it's short wheel base that it would have a hard time holding longer drifts. I've proved them wrong there too.

I hate to keep referencing it, but it all comes back down to the driver and how far they are willing to push it vs how far they CAN push it. Every car has a limit regardless of how skilled the driver is, and this car has a much broader limit than my BMW had, so I'm very secure in the fact that, in stock form this car is able to hold solid, long lasting drifts just as an S14 would with a VLSD, LOL!

Now, not to impose on anyone's parade and far be it from me to crush any ego's but if anyone wants to take a few lessons, that IS what I get paid to do at times and the SCCA believes gave me the certification and licensing because they felt that I had what it takes. If any one is up to it, I'd be more than happy to provide some lessons for anyone interested.

:)

-Dave


OH YEAH, and DAMON! I would own you on any course and any time in any place there Tanto!!!!!!!! LOL!

[XR7 Dave]

No, I'm not going to hold my tongue, but I will give you the respect and appreciation that you DO deserve, it takes a lot to build, own and maintain a car such as yours, not to mention driving it at it's limit, however, before you shoot my plane down, realize that you're not just talking to some punk who likes to drift in the mountains, you're talking to a professional who HAS dealt with extremely powerful cars, and even though I've never made a 7 second pass, nor would I be able to, LOL. I never once attempted to nullify the intensity of your sport.

TTFN,
-Dave

So quit bitching about it and go create some video's of SCs doing something else. The people who made those videos had fun doing it and I don't see why you think thats lame.

All you are doing is trying to stir up crap and people could just as easily ignore your post but they are bored and off work so chances are they'll bite and post something for you to argue about. It takes about -0- creativity to go find something wrong or missing somewhere and chastize people about allowing such a glaring fault to exist.

Instead, why not go out and make a difference instead of yelling at us and laughing ridiculously at things people say. You have made it very clear that you wish to judge the SC community by what you found in the MM section. You really think you've discovered the missing link for SC's, don't you? In reality you are quite laughable. You want SC's to get respect in other circles? Here's an idea, take your SC out and go earn some respect. Then you can video tape it and add it to our MM section.

In the mean time you are just blowing hot air. Lots of it. :cool:

[hunterd557]

So quit bitching about it and go create some video's of SCs doing something else. The people who made those videos had fun doing it and I don't see why you think thats lame.

All you are doing is trying to stir up crap and people could just as easily ignore your post but they are bored and off work so chances are they'll bite and post something for you to argue about. It takes about -0- creativity to go find something wrong or missing somewhere and chastize people about allowing such a glaring fault to exist.

Instead, why not go out and make a difference instead of yelling at us and laughing ridiculously at things people say. You have made it very clear that you wish to judge the SC community by what you found in the MM section. You really think you've discovered the missing link for SC's, don't you? In reality you are quite laughable. You want SC's to get respect in other circles? Here's an idea, take your SC out and go earn some respect. Then you can video tape it and add it to our MM section.

In the mean time you are just blowing hot air. Lots of it. :cool:


Once again, what I was trying to avoid. I don't want to step on anyone's toes . . .I don't want to cause an uproar. If I did, I'm sorry I mentioned anything.

I know the guys had fun making those vids, hell, I had a BLAST lighting up the tires on that thing my first time as well. The ONLY reason I'm not making any SC video's right now is because my baby is sick (blown hg) and needs some medical attention.

Once again bro, I'm very sorry, I never meant to start anything. I know that with more than one Dave in any place there's bound to be confrontation because every Dave thinks he's the greatest, LOL!

Nah guys, okay, we'll put an end to this, I'll talk to a moderator or admin and see if I can change the thread topic to something different that still flows with the topic in which I was originally trying to bring up: and we only have video's of quarter mile, and none of autocross, rallycross, road racing etc. Let's get those video's out there, and that's all I wanted to say, somewhere in the text and talk things got screwed up and I guess we all digressed from the center axis a little.

I apologize again, Dave, Damon, Ira, Cmac and all fellow SCCOA-ers. Lets just do this and do this right.

Cool?

-Dave

[XR7 Dave]

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I am an experienced SCCOA Solo II veteran. I used to campaign a short wheelbase Suzuki Swift in D-Mod for a few years. I now own a short wheelbase SC and may take up AX again at some point. Right now my car is awaiting a new motor also and with a family to support I can't afford the luxury of running the SC in situations that put the car at risk (not to mention the car is one of 5 ever made).

We aren't obsessed with drag racing (well, at least not as it relates to the SC's anyway), but we are having some fun with it for now. A car that runs and performs well is key to having fun in any type autosports arena and for most of us just getting to that stage first is a primary goal. Drag racing is just one facet and my car will never be set up soley for it. The only drag racing specific item I've ever bought for the car was a pair of slicks.

[Jeremy_K]

Rookie=Instructor:confused: :confused: :confused: How does that work???

[hunterd557]

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I am an experienced SCCOA Solo II veteran. I used to campaign a short wheelbase Suzuki Swift in D-Mod for a few years. I now own a short wheelbase SC and may take up AX again at some point. Right now my car is awaiting a new motor also and with a family to support I can't afford the luxury of running the SC in situations that put the car at risk (not to mention the car is one of 5 ever made).

We aren't obsessed with drag racing (well, at least not as it relates to the SC's anyway), but we are having some fun with it for now. A car that runs and performs well is key to having fun in any type autosports arena and for most of us just getting to that stage first is a primary goal. Drag racing is just one facet and my car will never be set up soley for it. The only drag racing specific item I've ever bought for the car was a pair of slicks.

Sweet deal! I can't wait to see you back in the game along with the rest of us and I wish you the best of luck!

I can't wait until my baby is up and running as well. I want to do a lot of little things to make it more of a livable car before I go TRACK-NUTS with it, you know? Like the power seats are crapped out, so, the second I get the opportunity, I'm going to get manual seats and/or put some racing seats in her. Power is nice, but I've never been one who needs luxury, most ameneties have a 3 or 4 year failure rate anyway. So I'd rather get the things in manual in order to avoid it. The only "problems" I see with my plan is that manual door locks and manual windows will most likely require a new door :(

-Dave

PS-You should PM some pics of this SC, because mine is huge, it'd be nice to actually see a compact(er) SC, LOL! Compacter? HAHAHA, yeah, I'm allowed to make up one word per day, I signed a contract with Marriem and Webster.

[hunterd557]

Rookie=Instructor:confused: :confused: :confused: How does that work???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

The same way you can have any teacher that's a rook. You simply don't have time in field that your senior instructors do.

I wear my racing license proudly around my neck everywhere I go, that simply means that I completed the required racing schools, went through the retentional period, completed the requirements and took the instructors certification test. However, I have less than 5 years of actual instruction under my belt so I'm still a rookie by all accounts. I joined the SCCA in June of 2005 and became an instructor in September. I had less than 3 actual autocross events completed before going to racing school because the thought of being licensed was so cool to me, and still is. Then when they opened up 6 positions for instruction, I couldn't pass it up, it would up costing roughly an additional 800 bucks, but, you can't put a price on the experience it gives you.

Good question though.

-Dave

[89SCK@t]

LOL, well I didn't want to mention the commercialized version of drifting because those cars each have more money invested into them than you probably make in a year. That GTO has over 100,000 dollars worth of body, power, drivetrain and suspension upgrades. They literally tore it down to the frame, reinforced everything and put it back together again.

A long sweeping turn is quite possible and in most cases in FD those people are traveling upwards of 80-100 miles perhour upon entry anyway. Also, when talking about a stock vehicle, it's not fair to compare it to a professional racing vehicle because in it's simplest for, it's not.

One of those 240sx's from Formula D would drift 100000 times better than a Stock SC, however, a Stock SC vs a Stock 240sx, and the SC would dominate. While on the way home I held an entire on ramp and off ramp sideways, no it wasn't smart but it does show the potential of these vehicles.

The key to drifting and holding longer turns in ANY car is not the power or the torque but the momentum, inertial and driver lunacy. Because you can have a great driver behind the wheel, but if he freaks when the back end starts to slide out, his better judgement will kick in and he'll either spin with the slide or correct it before it gets out of hand.

I could go on all day about this because this is the same challenge that I met with my E30 BMW. Everyone though because of it's short wheel base that it would have a hard time holding longer drifts. I've proved them wrong there too.

I hate to keep referencing it, but it all comes back down to the driver and how far they are willing to push it vs how far they CAN push it. Every car has a limit regardless of how skilled the driver is, and this car has a much broader limit than my BMW had, so I'm very secure in the fact that, in stock form this car is able to hold solid, long lasting drifts just as an S14 would with a VLSD, LOL!

Now, not to impose on anyone's parade and far be it from me to crush any ego's but if anyone wants to take a few lessons, that IS what I get paid to do at times and the SCCA believes gave me the certification and licensing because they felt that I had what it takes. If any one is up to it, I'd be more than happy to provide some lessons for anyone interested.

:)

-Dave


OH YEAH, and DAMON! I would own you on any course and any time in any place there Tanto!!!!!!!! LOL!

I hear you. I have done the same thing on the Hwy 90 and 410 W cloverleaf here in San Antonio. It wasn't hard for someone that has complete confidence in their car and if they have done it before. I would not recommend it to anyone that does not know the limits of their car, any car.

I grew up driving and drifting in Okinawa, I had probably the worst car to start drifting in, 88 5spd R31 Skyline, underpowered, overweight, no LSD. It was like driving an NA 3.8 5spd Tbird. I had to push that car well beyond its limits to get it to do anything. That expirence made me a better drifter when it came to other vehicles. I have no problem going into a corner sideways at speeds above 80 mph in my SC.

The only problem that I have is that the powerband is tooooooo narrow in the stock SC or even mildly upgraded SC for high speed drifting. The SC would outperform most in low speed drifting. The SC is like the AE86 Corolla of the drifting world.

How about a 32-valve Turbo 4.6, t-45'd(or t-56), Tbird competing. I think it would hold its own with some of the smaller cars.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

All you are doing is trying to stir up crap and people could just as easily ignore your post but they are bored and off work so chances are they'll bite and post something for you to argue about. It takes about -0- creativity to go find something wrong or missing somewhere and chastize people about allowing such a glaring fault to exist.

I work like 70 hours a week and still have time lmao!

[hunterd557]

I hear you. I have done the same thing on the Hwy 90 and 410 W cloverleaf here in San Antonio. It wasn't hard for someone that has complete confidence in their car and if they have done it before. I would not recommend it to anyone that does not know the limits of their car, any car.

I grew up driving and drifting in Okinawa, I had probably the worst car to start drifting in, 88 5spd R31 Skyline, underpowered, overweight, no LSD. It was like driving an NA 3.8 5spd Tbird. I had to push that car well beyond its limits to get it to do anything. That expirence made me a better drifter when it came to other vehicles. I have no problem going into a corner sideways at speeds above 80 mph in my SC.

The only problem that I have is that the powerband is tooooooo narrow in the stock SC or even mildly upgraded SC for high speed drifting. The SC would outperform most in low speed drifting. The SC is like the AE86 Corolla of the drifting world.

How about a 32-valve Turbo 4.6, t-45'd(or t-56), Tbird competing. I think it would hold its own with some of the smaller cars.


Sweet deal dude! Did you see that LX in the original post from Slidebird91, you should check that out, he maintains total traction loss for most of the video, it's insane!

OKI WOOT!

I was stationed there while I served in the Marine Corps from Dec 2002 to Feb 2004. That was THE most fun EVER. I think everyone had a Skyline there, LOL! I had two actually, my Corporal sold me his R32 GTS-t for $1200 USD, and that thing was AMAZING, it drove it's turbo to 380whp and would spin the rearwheels like it was nothing. I learned on a torquey vehicle with a strong top end. So I guess I broke into drifting in the wrong manner, because most recommend a lesser powerful car in order to hone in your technique. I saw the error in my ways when I picked up my 240 upon arriving to the states, I had very little technique and I had to learn how to drift all over again. Another reason why I joined the SCCA.

My second Skyline was a R33GTR. Not a drifter, but WHO CARED!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

That thing put 450hp through a swapped out RB26DETT and it terrorized that little island and their highway and street racers.

I remember for Christmas leave, myself, two Sergeants and 2 Corporals along with a Lance Corporal all went out to Tokyo for 2 weeks. LOL! You want to talk about a reality check. I'm like, man 450hp is good for 11 or 10 seconds depending on the vehicle, LOL! So I'm QUITE confident that I have a fast car.

BOY WAS I WRONG!!!!!!

I got there and I was getting pulled on by CRX's that by numbers (300hp) were weaker, but when you couple that power with it's <1900 lbs, you get these cars that pull for hours and hours and have seemingly no end to their aggressiveness


I remember we met up with two groups in particular that made my visit worth while. One of the groups was simply referred to as the 1k Skylines by Yanks (Americans) and local nationals. These were about 4 R34 and R33 Skylines all making power in excess of 1000whp. These were the dominators of the highway out there. I also remember the twin 900hp RX7s with NO REDLINE! LOL! I loved those two. They were both FD3S's, one was red with white decals and the other was white with red decals. They were stalemated when racing each other, but because of their fast, and high, revving engines and light weight, they could completely obliterate anyone they raced. Which included myself. I also got to ride in and race against one of the 1k Skylines.

Racing against one is like seeing your life flash before your eyes. He has large turbos so they take a while to get going, and you usually (depending on your car) get a good 3 or 4 lengths on him.

Then...his taillights stop shrinking and they get REALLY big . . .REALLY fast. Just before he passes you, Jesus sits in your passenger seat, places his hand on your leg and says, "This was a bad idea." Then he leaves, time speeds up and you hear Earth Shatter by as he rockets by in a blur, and doesn't stop racing until he can't see you anymore.

It's incredible.

Riding it in, you literally feel time and space mesh together as the world around you starts to blur. Cars don't exist anymore, it's just the road and these objects that the driver is avoiding. The power is so great that you can quite literally have your back crack as your pressed into the seat and your spine realigns to cope with the tolerances in G force.

It's crazy . . .truely wild!

-Dave

[89SCK@t]

My first car was an 86 Toyota Corona, POS to the max, I guess I started drifting in that car. It was the typical 4door, white, automatic that you see EVERYWHERE in oki. it was ebrake drifting only.

I have gotten to ride in many, many, cars while I was there. Drifting and dragracing, and I can say there was only one time that I was scared for my life.

My buddies and I were at Awase, just having fun, and watching about 15 to 20 cars drifting. You know what I am talking about when you see a ballet like that, every car inches from each other, fishtailing across 3 lanes, and hitting the corners at 120kph+. The most powerful cars in front, R32-34 GTR's, TT MarkII's/Chasers/Soarers, SR20 Silvia's/180's, Turbo MR2/Supercharged MR2's, AE86 Corolla's/Treuno's, and my car...

That night there was an AE86 that sounded like a friggin 747. No one would drift when he was there. It was a high compression 4AG that was dual weber carbed. It was full caged, adjustable cams, about 10* of camber, lowered damn near to the ground, XR4's in the front w/BBS wire rims in the back, lets just say, anything that you could put on the car performance wise, yeah, he had it.

I got a chance to ride with him...and that would have to be the scariest ride I have ever had. He started about 1 mile back from the corner and punched it...It sounded like the Gates of Hell had opened up and we were going sideways from a standstill, 2nd fishtail and we are in 3rd gear at 80kph and the tires still spinning, 4th fishtail and we are in 5th with the, "You are going faster than 100kph" bell dinging, by the time we had reached the corner the speedo was pegged at 160kph at still accelerating. Downshift to 4th, and we are going sideways about 200ft before the right hand corner, all I could do was scream and hold on to the roll cage(there were no OH-Crap handles), and after the corner you could hear the bushes slapping against the driver quarter panel then the passenger quarter...

I haven't screamed that loud to this day, as I had that night. It was awe-inspiring. My racing goal it to be as fluid and calm as that guy was everytime he was drifting.

Still sends chills down my spine whenever I think about it.

[hunterd557]

My first car was an 86 Toyota Corona, POS to the max, I guess I started drifting in that car. It was the typical 4door, white, automatic that you see EVERYWHERE in oki. it was ebrake drifting only.

I have gotten to ride in many, many, cars while I was there. Drifting and dragracing, and I can say there was only one time that I was scared for my life.

My buddies and I were at Awase, just having fun, and watching about 15 to 20 cars drifting. You know what I am talking about when you see a ballet like that, every car inches from each other, fishtailing across 3 lanes, and hitting the corners at 120kph+. The most powerful cars in front, R32-34 GTR's, TT MarkII's/Chasers/Soarers, SR20 Silvia's/180's, Turbo MR2/Supercharged MR2's, AE86 Corolla's/Treuno's, and my car...

That night there was an AE86 that sounded like a friggin 747. No one would drift when he was there. It was a high compression 4AG that was dual weber carbed. It was full caged, adjustable cams, about 10* of camber, lowered damn near to the ground, XR4's in the front w/BBS wire rims in the back, lets just say, anything that you could put on the car performance wise, yeah, he had it.

I got a chance to ride with him...and that would have to be the scariest ride I have ever had. He started about 1 mile back from the corner and punched it...It sounded like the Gates of Hell had opened up and we were going sideways from a standstill, 2nd fishtail and we are in 3rd gear at 80kph and the tires still spinning, 4th fishtail and we are in 5th with the, "You are going faster than 100kph" bell dinging, by the time we had reached the corner the speedo was pegged at 160kph at still accelerating. Downshift to 4th, and we are going sideways about 200ft before the right hand corner, all I could do was scream and hold on to the roll cage(there were no OH-Crap handles), and after the corner you could hear the bushes slapping against the driver quarter panel then the passenger quarter...

I haven't screamed that loud to this day, as I had that night. It was awe-inspiring. My racing goal it to be as fluid and calm as that guy was everytime he was drifting.

Still sends chills down my spine whenever I think about it.

That's the only way to live, sounds like the first time I was introduced to drifting. At first, I thought it was a waste, but then one local national actually took me for a ride in his automatic R32 GT . . .that was nothing but pure fun, I screamed like a school girl and when he flipped a 180 at the end of his run I poured from the car like hot syrup. Too much fun, way better than any rollercoaster imaginable.

I wouldn't mind getting this car to where it can roll with the drifters I know, however, there aren't many drifters up this way, most of the guys around here are street racers with Hondas and Acuras . . .it's all good though, I let them have their fun, then when I'm ready to step in, I put my foot down and let them know that there's no replacement for displacement.

I remember my first 4th gear drift, it wasn't until recently. I had my RX7 on LR and I banged the Kink hard and heel-toe-downshifting into 4th from 5th, just to see if it would get sideways, that car was planted!!! But it kicked it and I must have lost like 1000 miles worth of rubber in the 15 seconds of sideways at over 100mph, ROFLOL! That was my first and only triple digit drift ever and I honestly can't see me going back for more. They are a LOT more scary then you could ever imagine, it's not like snow drifting in a parking lot, you're like, a crash at 100mph is fatal whether it's on track of off.

-Dave

[CMac89]

See, this is what I was trying to avoid: The avid quarter mile DOMINATOR who takes offense to what I say.

You didn't read my first, 4th or 5th posts did you? You drew an assumption based off of presumptions and to add to it, what you just said is completely negated by the posts listed beforehand.

Cmac, if I had a 7 second car, I know that I would own the drag strip and I would take a lot of pride in it as I'm sure you do. And by reading the previous posts you would know that I've alreday admitted that it takes a lot of skill to handle these 9, 8 and 7 second cars. Why, because you have to be able to keep that thing pointing forward the entire time you're on that track. When you're talking a 15 or 16 second quarter, that doesn't take much, but when you start knocking on the door of SINGLE DIGITS, thats when driver skill comes in handy.

Yes, I'm POSITIVE that I will find more thrill in riding along in your 7 second muscle car than I would blistering around a pylon course in my SC. However, a Ferarri . . .nah, LOL! Just the thrill of being in or driving a Ferarri would bring a tear to my eye.

In the same sense, Cmac, I'm absolutely positive without a shadow of a doubt that I would wreck if I tried to run a 7 second pass in your car. In my defense, I've been instructing with the SCCA for over a year now, and even though I'm still a rookie, I doubt that a lot of the quarter mile killers that are in existance today can hang with me in a turn if we both have the same vehicle. Because in that sense it's driver for driver in a field that they are used to.

You would own me in a straight line, torque battle, however, I think I would hold my own when it comes to a road or autocross course.

No, I'm not going to hold my tongue, but I will give you the respect and appreciation that you DO deserve, it takes a lot to build, own and maintain a car such as yours, not to mention driving it at it's limit, however, before you shoot my plane down, realize that you're not just talking to some punk who likes to drift in the mountains, you're talking to a professional who HAS dealt with extremely powerful cars, and even though I've never made a 7 second pass, nor would I be able to, LOL. I never once attempted to nullify the intensity of your sport.

TTFN,
-Dave
Dave,

I wasn't "shooting" anything down in offense to you, but merely stating my thoughts on the subject, if anything. I saw this as a debate and not an argument. Arguments require personal attacks and there aren't any here. If it seems as if I'm not reading anything then that means it isn't a response to all of your comments.

Anyways, I understand that you understand. If AutoCross and/or Road Racing are what you like then cool deal. We're all car guys. Drag racing and road racing both take a certain amount of horsepower and a great amount of suspension technology to make usable at the track.

[hunterd557]

That works for me ^_^ Now show me your BEAST of a vehicle!!!!

[fast Ed]

Dave, as I mentioned in your other thread, I don't have any video of my SC from the road courses. But I do have a bunch of still photos. Ones from this past season I haven't uploaded yet, but here's a link to a bunch that were taken at an SVTOA event from a few years ago. I've been helping out the Ontario chapter with their annual school as an in-car instructor for the past 4 or 5 years.

SVTOA Shannonville 2003 (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35013)

I have a background in road racing too. Used to run a 5.0L Mustang in amateur regional showroom stock events (Ontario rules were fairly liberal, close to Firehawk rules), as well as some 12 hr. and 24 hr. enduros in other people's cars. Haven't raced competitively since 1998, but I try to help out at least a few times a summer at various club performance driving schools.


cheers
Ed N.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Sweet deal dude! Did you see that LX in the original post from Slidebird91, you should check that out, he maintains total traction loss for most of the video, it's insane!

It was wet ! hehehe..Doesnt take much for my sc to maintain total traction loss when its wet I can garunteeeeeeeeee

[x182dan]

ya in dry pavement I don't think sc's would have enough power up top toe keep the tires spinning

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Dan..I havent seen many drift comps done on dry pavement..I think maybe on a high end level yes..

You shoulda seen Miller the other day at the runway....That thing was all over the place one it started spinning...My Teal car does an awfully good job at it as well....Not that I would ever do something like that

[hunterd557]

The first part was dry. That night shot, I mean, it's not easy to decipher however, if you pay attention to that beginning scene he's smoking the tires HARD and it's dry . . .albeit night time, a lot easier to maintain traction loss at night than during the day.

-Dave


EDIT: Every drifting event I've either hosted, instructed at, judged or competed in has been dry and during the day. You don't hold a good drift, you simply don't hold a good drift. Drifting, once again, isn't in the power it's in the balance and inertia. I've seen 150hp 240sx's with nothing more than Koni adjustables, lowering springs (mostly cut), and a welded diff. These guys hold drifts as long as they remain on the track, LOL!

[quick35th]

Honestly I cant read all this banter thats going on on this thread so far. Like Dalke, I to am an experienced autocrosser but I am in no means a pro at it. Heres a veiw videos of me autocrossing my old 35th.

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/5027340b-2548-4fcb-82ae-989f01711874.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5027340b-2548-4fcb-82ae-989f01711874.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5027340b-2548-4fcb-82ae-989f01711874.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/b3e67da9-394b-430f-8a7f-989f0174bdd1.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b3e67da9-394b-430f-8a7f-989f0174bdd1.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b3e67da9-394b-430f-8a7f-989f0174bdd1.htm)

In this video my tires were getting really worn out as you'll see.

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/7a681de8-f15c-4baa-a8e3-989f017a276e.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7a681de8-f15c-4baa-a8e3-989f017a276e.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7a681de8-f15c-4baa-a8e3-989f017a276e.htm)

Shane

[hunterd557]

Honestly I cant read all this banter thats going on on this thread so far. Like Dalke, I to am an experienced autocrosser but I am in no means a pro at it. Heres a veiw videos of me autocrossing my old 35th.

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/5027340b-2548-4fcb-82ae-989f01711874.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5027340b-2548-4fcb-82ae-989f01711874.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5027340b-2548-4fcb-82ae-989f01711874.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/b3e67da9-394b-430f-8a7f-989f0174bdd1.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b3e67da9-394b-430f-8a7f-989f0174bdd1.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b3e67da9-394b-430f-8a7f-989f0174bdd1.htm)

In this video my tires were getting really worn out as you'll see.

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/7a681de8-f15c-4baa-a8e3-989f017a276e.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7a681de8-f15c-4baa-a8e3-989f017a276e.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7a681de8-f15c-4baa-a8e3-989f017a276e.htm)

Shane



WOOT!

See! This is all I wanted to accomplish! This is it! All I wanted to see!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!


Now, what do we have to do to get these posted into the Multimedia page?

-Dave

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Dave,

Thats something to mention..You need at the very least a STRONG POSI/Tracloc or whetever or locked diff..And stiff suspension helps as well....None of which are really ideal for a true handeling vehicle eh?

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

SHane ,

I almost peed myself great footage! I absolutely love the cone effect!

[quick35th]

WOOT!

See! This is all I wanted to accomplish! This is it! All I wanted to see!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!


Now, what do we have to do to get these posted into the Multimedia page?

-Dave

Here are the other videos of myself autocrossing my old 35th. Enjoy.

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/28144be1-585c-4b04-8b7c-98a000067433.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/28144be1-585c-4b04-8b7c-98a000067433.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/28144be1-585c-4b04-8b7c-98a000067433.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/1f617fb0-04d6-4731-b82a-98a0000801fa.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1f617fb0-04d6-4731-b82a-98a0000801fa.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1f617fb0-04d6-4731-b82a-98a0000801fa.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/463358bb-b3ec-4799-9936-98a0000a2b98.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/463358bb-b3ec-4799-9936-98a0000a2b98.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/463358bb-b3ec-4799-9936-98a0000a2b98.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/7cb6dffb-ae46-4f67-9625-98a0000b7458.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7cb6dffb-ae46-4f67-9625-98a0000b7458.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7cb6dffb-ae46-4f67-9625-98a0000b7458.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/294a0464-3ff5-4c7b-96f8-98a0000ce2a5.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/294a0464-3ff5-4c7b-96f8-98a0000ce2a5.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/294a0464-3ff5-4c7b-96f8-98a0000ce2a5.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/3c34c30c-8f75-47e4-bff2-98a0000e3967.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3c34c30c-8f75-47e4-bff2-98a0000e3967.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/3c34c30c-8f75-47e4-bff2-98a0000e3967.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/317bd789-be15-4ba8-97e7-98a0000f9e33.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/317bd789-be15-4ba8-97e7-98a0000f9e33.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/317bd789-be15-4ba8-97e7-98a0000f9e33.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/d000c5cb-ace2-4fc0-aad2-98a000109248.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d000c5cb-ace2-4fc0-aad2-98a000109248.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d000c5cb-ace2-4fc0-aad2-98a000109248.htm)

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/1b41e00c-cc16-4911-9c03-98a000117d5a.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1b41e00c-cc16-4911-9c03-98a000117d5a.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1b41e00c-cc16-4911-9c03-98a000117d5a.htm)

Shane

[crich]

thats some awesome wheelin!!!

[tim]

I own a 1995 Suzuki Esteem it has 60 hp. I think? its an automatic with 103,000 miles on it. Maybe I should give up drag racing this junky Super Coupe and get into drifting the Suziki. I turn 60 next month so my reflexes are really slow. Do I have to wait for it to snow to get drifts to drift in or should I take it out on the frozen lake and try it. Any sugestions would be apreciated. Talk to you guys later I have to go drink some Geritol and go to bed its almost 8:30 way past my bed time. Dalke had a Suziuki, I knew he was a closet ricer.:eek:

[hunterd557]

Hmmm......I detect a hint of sarcasm, LOL!


-Dave

[x182dan]

Dan..I havent seen many drift comps done on dry pavement..I think maybe on a high end level yes..

You shoulda seen Miller the other day at the runway....That thing was all over the place one it started spinning...My Teal car does an awfully good job at it as well....Not that I would ever do something like that

you know I never knew that they wetted the pavement for drifting competitions. If you 5spd was anything like mine damon I would guess 1-3rd spinning in the rain

And I stand by my comment that sc's are no good for road racing. My boss who is a professional drive said theres no place for a thunderbird just two big and not enough power as he put it. Hell you can go a lot farther with a solid rearend mustang than you could with an SC

[hunterd557]

you know I never knew that they wetted the pavement for drifting competitions. If you 5spd was anything like mine damon I would guess 1-3rd spinning in the rain

And I stand by my comment that sc's are no good for road racing. My boss who is a professional drive said theres no place for a thunderbird just two big and not enough power as he put it. Hell you can go a lot farther with a solid rearend mustang than you could with an SC

Which would probably solidify the reasoning for a Mustang Cup and no Tbird cup, LOL! The Tbird is a beast, but it's a beast to be reckoned with. Usually the way cups are formed are based off of popularity and the willingness for each driver to push them to the next level. You can learn more about how cups are started and attempt to form your own cup at www.scca.org. Anyhow, it takes a lot to form a cup and quite frankly the Tbird doesn't have the popularity required to start one. I still think that with it's advanced handling this car would be solid competition for vehicles such as the Firebird and Camaro on tracks such as Topeka, Lime Rock and Leguna Seca.

Larger tracks such as Mo-Sport and VIR would render a Tbird in the "slower pack" runs.

---------------------

Yeah, they don't really wet the grounds for many drifting events, not the ones that I've seen anyway...

-Dave

[tim]

Just playing around. No harm intended, If you have a car and you like what you are doing with it thats cool it would be pretty boring if everbody in the car hobby had the same intrest. Search "me as a ricer" and you will get my sence of humor. Iam sure some of the guys on here remember it.:eek:

[quick35th]

And I stand by my comment that sc's are no good for road racing. My boss who is a professional drive said theres no place for a thunderbird just two big and not enough power as he put it. Hell you can go a lot farther with a solid rearend mustang than you could with an SC

I am out to change this thinking though with my road race SC once I have it all up and running. It goes in the shop for a fuel cell install, nascar dash, lexan windshield install, and a few other things on January 8th, 2007. After all thats been done it will be running shortly there after.

Shane

[x182dan]

I am out to change this thinking though with my road race SC once I have it all up and running. It goes in the shop for a fuel cell install, nascar dash, lexan windshield install, and a few other things on January 8th, 2007. After all thats been done it will be running shortly there after.

Shane

hey more power to ya but I just don't think the tbird will ever be able to compete with other cars

[hunterd557]

When you say this, which cars are we referring to? I mean, the SCCA has classes based off of potential of the car, power to weight, level of modification, suspension, powertrain, drivetrain, etc. . . .they pay a bunch of people a lot of money each year to figure out these types of classes, so why would you think that the SC wouldn't be competitive.

I think you're looking at a level that's far to superficial and should really rethink your approach to this arguement. Because saying it weighs a lot doesn't have power isn't going to hold up well because if you read the SCCA Rulebook, which I know you haven't because that was your arguement, you'll see that HS holds vehicles such as the Volvo 240DL WAGON! There's 190hp and 4000 pounds of nothing but the pure ability to handle turns.

Okay so lets leave that alone for a second, lets jump on to something that people usually associate with racing, BMW.

Remember the 633CSI . . .yeah, from 1978-1984, a boat of all boats. Tiped th scales at just over 4300 pounds and had 180hp on a straight 6 engine that displaced all of 3 liters. Competed 1st in it's class on the Autobahn Trials and is still one of the SCCA's and NASA's most saught after vehicle for racing in it's class.

See what you're failing to realize is that the SCCA isn't going to put the Super Coupe against a 1986 Fox Body GT, it just wouldn't be fair, now if you want, I can go check out my rule book and see which cars, stock for stock, would be in competition with this vehicle.

Happy Holidays to all,
-Dave

[XR7 Dave]

hey more power to ya but I just don't think the tbird will ever be able to compete with other cars That is just because you don't know. Shane's car did run a few practice laps in the NASA American Iron class before the stock V6 was pulled. It kept up with the leaders all while being down about 100HP from the competition. The other cars would leave it behind on the straights only to have it catch up in braking and cornering. You'd be surprised what a well prepped T-bird will do.

Back in the day when the XR7 was still stock I ran it in F-Stock SCCA and surprisingly enough held my own against the current Mustangs and F-Bodies of the day. The T-Bird is somewhat handicapped on a tight course due to it's size but on a real race track the extra length and width makes the car extremely easy to balance and very well mannered. Again, you'd be surprised.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Personally I would like to see SHane get out there again...HE just needs to focus on one thing..Me I cant do that

[quick35th]

Personally I would like to see SHane get out there again...HE just needs to focus on one thing..Me I cant do that

Oh I'll be out there again thats for sure but I do hear ya Damon about needing to focus on one thing. Its becoming hard to throw money at the race car with this new 35th around.

Shane

[Scott Long]

However, a Ferarri . . .nah, LOL! Just the thrill of being in or driving a Ferarri would bring a tear to my eye.


Eh, they are very nice cars (my friend has a few of them ranging from 360 spider to 612 Scaglietti to F430). But still I'd rather have a fully streetable SC such as Dave Neiberts that can drive to work every day, take a trip on the highway, and bust off a 10.68@129mph pass at the track. That car has H&R springs, and hasn't compromised anything. It's a street car not a drag car. Full interior, air conditioning, 17" wheels and tires.

And I don't like the term "drag queen".

No I didn't read all 4 pages of this, and I'm not going to.

Would I go to a road course, yes in my 5-speed car when I fix it and get it going with some good tires. In my auto, I'd try it but I wouldn't push it too hard, because no matter what it's an auto and on a road course you just don't feel as connected as you do in a manual.

Drag racing however I prefer my automatic car. Shifts quicker, more consistent, and doesn't break ~~~~ trying to launch.

As if you haven't already figured out the Videos in the multimedia section are old.

Good luck trying to convert me to road racing. I will try it and probably have a blast, but I grew up with Muscle Cars (69 Charger, 73 Z/28, 74 T/A 455) to name a few. None of those cars would handle worth a ~~~~, but point them down a straight road and stand on the gas and you will have a big ~~~~ eating grin plasterred across your face.

I like the SC because it handles well and I want to make it handle better, but I also want it accelerate faster. I'd take straight line sub 1.60 60 ft's over a quicker lap time. Because around here theres more drag racing, street racing, etc... and you can make more money with a fast car around here if you run it in a straight line.

I live only 25 minutes from Gingerman in South Haven, MI but I've never been there. I don't even know how to get to the place. I have however been all over the country to drag strips.

When I had my Audi quattro, it wasn't fast in a straight line, but it handled well and you could stand on the gas around a corner and not lose the car in the ditch. I took it to Grattan Raceway once for an Audi/Porsche event but I wasn't registerred to participate. It did look like fun. In a slow car it'd be more fun to road race. No doubt.

[hunterd557]

Should we tell Scott that we're done bickering about drag vs. road racing, LOL!


Oh well....

Interesting points Scott, I wouldn't mind having a 69 Charger or 69 Camaro, in fact, I'd love to have both, LOL!

Yeah, it wasn't so much of an arguement as to why so many of us are drag racing as much as it was why we only see drag racing in the multimedia section. Reading helps . . .but it's not necessary, I'll fill you in, hehe!

But yeah, we stopped bickering a while ago, now we're just trying to get the video's on the multimedia section and we're discussing various ways that we have had, are having or will have fun on a road, drag and autocross track. A few of us are even discussing drifting, it's a very obscure thread at this point, LOL! We'll get it on one set section after a few pages, hahahahaha!

Oh well . . .hahaha . . .have fun Scott and Happy Holidays!!!!

-Dave

EDIT: Oh yeah . . .I'm also trying to figure out Shane's next move as far as road racing goes. HAHAHA! This guy can drive his SC, very well, can't wait to see it next season.

[Scott Long]

I would be interested in a road race track day with an instructor if it was held in conjunction with an SC meet. I'd still like to drag race as well. I mean unless it could be held at the track near me.

I was just stirring the pot. I guess what I meant to say was I'll never quit drag racing but I would be interested in running my 5-speed SC on a road course. I am not too big of a fan on auto-x as it seems like a big car like this wouldn't maneuver very well and well if you have an SC you know about the stock brakes.

I've seen some videos of SVTOA track days, and even Ford Lightnings were out on the track. I have an in-car vid of a lightning almost passing a Ford GT on a road course. But of course he has to constantly stand on it to get it to downshift the auto. (hence why I'd rather drive my 92 5-speed on the road course than my 90 auto).

[x182dan]

I would be interested in a road race track day with an instructor if it was held in conjunction with an SC meet. I'd still like to drag race as well. I mean unless it could be held at the track near me.

I was just stirring the pot. I guess what I meant to say was I'll never quit drag racing but I would be interested in running my 5-speed SC on a road course. I am not too big of a fan on auto-x as it seems like a big car like this wouldn't maneuver very well and well if you have an SC you know about the stock brakes.

I've seen some videos of SVTOA track days, and even Ford Lightnings were out on the track. I have an in-car vid of a lightning almost passing a Ford GT on a road course. But of course he has to constantly stand on it to get it to downshift the auto. (hence why I'd rather drive my 92 5-speed on the road course than my 90 auto).

5spd is preferred but if you have a good automatic that can hold gears then its almost just as good. Say you have a 94 sc with the 4r70w transmission. You can hold second gear in it so its not horrible but still 5spd is best. In the AOD you can't hold second the car will shift to third.

[Scott Long]

I can hold second in my AOD. I just can't hold 3rd becuase I haven't hooked up my electronic overdrive delete. So if I'm going into a turn at 70 in 3rd and let off the gas the car shifts to O/D. If I am ever able to drill through the top of the transmission to run the wire for the O/D delete solenoid then I'll be able to hold all gears. I had it drilled through the pan but it leaked so I had to disconnect it and use some quick steel to fill the pan.

[89SCK@t]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8d7f474b-b9ad-45d2-8633-989401364477.htm

some people have already seen this, but this is True Drifting. Starting in the mountains...ENJOY!:D

[David Neibert]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8d7f474b-b9ad-45d2-8633-989401364477.htm

some people have already seen this, but this is True Drifting. Starting in the mountains...ENJOY!:D

Those guys are Nuckin Futts.

David

[89SCK@t]

and thats how I learned how to drift.

[x182dan]

I can hold second in my AOD. I just can't hold 3rd becuase I haven't hooked up my electronic overdrive delete. So if I'm going into a turn at 70 in 3rd and let off the gas the car shifts to O/D. If I am ever able to drill through the top of the transmission to run the wire for the O/D delete solenoid then I'll be able to hold all gears. I had it drilled through the pan but it leaked so I had to disconnect it and use some quick steel to fill the pan.

How did you do that do you have a manual valvebody or something? You wouldn't be able to run stock I don't think with that modification

[hunterd557]

and thats how I learned how to drift.

As did I, I have the pictures of my wrecked Skylines to prove it . . .lol!

Oh man, you should have seen me. I was inconsolable when I ruined each car, I couldn't believe it happened.

Oh well.

Here's some results of NOT drifting properly in the mountains whilst in Okinawa:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DSC00098.jpg
That was Skyline Number 1: A 1989 Skyline GTS-t, it was actually a rather simple accident that is quite common with drifting. I lost traction, everything was perfect . . then BAM, traction came back in an instant when I let it dip below torque and she went forward more than sideways, LOL!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DA7.jpg
That's number 2: The R33 GTR >_< I really liked that one, but utilizing its ATTESA ETS system, I really shouldn't have been sliding that car out like I did, especially since I have very little experience with AWD!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DSC00891.jpg
Ugly aint it?! LOL! That wasn't in Japan, that's actually a picture aboard Headquarters Marine Corps in Arlington, VA! OO RAH!

Yeah, that was a result of not letting the turbo flush properly during a drift and overboosting straight into a guardrail . . .*sigh*

LOL!

That's why I no longer drift in the streets, however, when I first got my SCCA thing going, you couldn't tear me away from the mountains and roads. I was insane, very violent and aggressive drifter. I started hanging around the more mature crowd, started racking up the fines and started losing cars and learned my lesson eventually.

Besides, my senior instructors threatened my SCCA license if I got in trouble again >_<

grrrrrrrrrrr


-Dave

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Did anyoen else notice skyline #1 already had a different color front end on it?.....I;d hate to see what hed do to an SC hahaha

[hunterd557]

Did anyoen else notice skyline #1 already had a different color front end on it?.....I;d hate to see what hed do to an SC hahaha

ROFLOL! HEY NO FAIR! >_<

That was while I was still learning about drifting. I've worked out most of the kinks by now, darn you.

Chump . . . LOL!

That just shows that even the ones who are supposed to be dedicated to pulling the kids off the street and onto the track can and will have fun and we can and do make mistakes. No one's perfect, I just happen to be as close as you can get, LOL! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously though, yeah those share the similarities that the mountains claimed their existance, and with the exception of my 33, the rest of the cars had panels replaced and were returned back to drivability. The 240, to this day, still passes tech inspect at places like FedEx field no less, where they have really cracked down on autofail points like rot and misaligned chassis.

-Dave

[MikeKanterakis]

I think a street racing video section would be great.

Although, you have to admit, with as big of a collection of do-it-your-selfers as this board holds, straight line videos are a natural expression of one's ability to tune/tweak their car. There's really NO counter argument to someone who just beat you in a straight line race; and if you think there is, it's called whining!

Now, it would be GREAT if members could submit video and time slips from all types of tracks and compare with other members running the same track. However, 1/4 mile time slips are a standard by which every SC owner can easily compare across the globe.

Drifting makes for a fun video, but I don't think I'll be smashing into guardrails or onlookers just to make a video of my car on the edge of spinning out of control. But, that's me.

I look forward to watching your videos.:)

[hunterd557]

Figured I'd add a few pictures of Skyline #2 just to reitterate why I don't drift or race in the street and why I think no one else should. Keep in mind, this was getting LUCKY, the speed and force used to cause this could have done a LOT of damage, I walked away with a bruised shoulder, sprained wrist and hyper extended elbow. And it was my right arm, so you know what I couldn't do for a few months >_< :p HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Also, someone told me that they couldn't see too much wrong with the second.

So here:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DA14.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DA10.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DA5.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/nightmajik/DA6.jpg


Not trying to hijack me own thread, but yeah, just one of those, learn from my mistakes so you don't create your own, type of things.

-Dave