'Prepping for paint job' questions...

Kit Sullivan

Registered User
I am taking my recently damaged 35th Anniversary car to the body shop this week for a complete paint job.
I am taking the car 'apart' before delivering it, so I need to ask a few questions here of the 'experts'!

1) How are the moldings that run along the top of the 1/4 panel/roof joint removed? These are the ones that start just aft of the top rear of the door frame and extend to the upper corner of the backlite(back window).

2) How are the upper pieces of trim removed from both the windshield and the rear/back window? ( and how can they be refurbished? I was thinking of sanding them down and spraying with undercoating...)

3) Are the rub strip moldings on the doors and front portion of the 1/4 panels attached with fasteners or adhesive? If with fasteners, how to remove?

4) How is the rubber trim around the upper portion of the door window removed? It appears that the entires window asembly must be removed to pull the entire 'glass run' out, but I don't really want to do that. Any hints?

I know there must be several here who have tackled this stuff, so any help is certainly appreciated!
 
Here You Go

I am taking my recently damaged 35th Anniversary car to the body shop this week for a complete paint job.
I am taking the car 'apart' before delivering it, so I need to ask a few questions here of the 'experts'!

1) How are the moldings that run along the top of the 1/4 panel/roof joint removed? These are the ones that start just aft of the top rear of the door frame and extend to the upper corner of the backlite(back window).

2) How are the upper pieces of trim removed from both the windshield and the rear/back window? ( and how can they be refurbished? I was thinking of sanding them down and spraying with undercoating...)

3) Are the rub strip moldings on the doors and front portion of the 1/4 panels attached with fasteners or adhesive? If with fasteners, how to remove?

4) How is the rubber trim around the upper portion of the door window removed? It appears that the entires window asembly must be removed to pull the entire 'glass run' out, but I don't really want to do that. Any hints?

I know there must be several here who have tackled this stuff, so any help is certainly appreciated!

1) They are retained with some step blocks that wedge into the gutter where the roof skin is welded to the quarter. You should be able to pry up on the molding with some plastic wedges (protect the paint), and gently pry the moulding loose. The FSM shows that there's one screw holding it in from underneath, but I've not found that to be the case on my cars. That may not have actually made it into production. If yours actually has the screw as the FSM shows, you'll need to drop the headliner to gain access. The wedge blocks can be pryed out of the gutter once the moulding is free. There will be a ton of crud in the gutter that will need to be cleaned out. Trust me.

2) The upper windshield and backlight trim are attached with clips. You can gently pry up on the moulding, and it should pop free of the clips. I've had luck pushing a plastic spatula straight down between the roof skin and the moulding while using another one to push up underneath the moulding between the window. Once you get the first one free, then you can easily see how they work. After the moulding is free, you can remove the clips from the body studs, if you wish.

As far as refinishing, I'm not sure. They're made as an extrusion over an aluminum carrier, then arched to shape. They have a reveal lip that lays down against the glass. That's pretty hard to duplicate. But, I suppose you could scuff and re-shoot yours if they're not in terrible shape. However, you can still get brand-spanking new ones from Ford. Victor at Spinning Wheels SC also carries them. If you're going to the trouble to repaint the car, why not splurge for a new set. I think they run about $35 or so, each.

3) Rub mouldings are attached with double-sided adhesive tape. Use a plastic spatula, or a pice of strong line wrapped around two handles to "saw" through the tape. After removal, you'll need to remove the tape residue from both the moulding and the door. After the paintwork is finished, you can reattach with new double-sided 3M tape. Your body shop should be able to set you up with what you need.

4) I used to work for a company that made these exact parts, so I know how they're made, and how fragile they are. The glass runs are attached with friction on the pinchweld of the window opening in the door. The front leg is bolted to the inner door skin with a stamped bracket. You'll need to remove the window glass and bracket bolt before attempting to remove the glass run. If you decide to pull the glass runs, be VERY VERY VERY careful with the glass run, during removal, during storage, and during installation. The corner nearest the "B" pillar is EXTREMELY fragile. If you kink or break it there, it goes in the trash. I reccommend using plenty of dish soap solution to lubricate under the inside and outside of the glass run before and during removal. Again, some plastic spatulas will help start to break it loose. Begin at the "B" pillar corner, and alternately work the top and vertical leg. The goal is to maintain the factory angle of the "B" pillar corner of the glass run during removal. I might even go as far as cutting a 6" x 6" piece of masonite to the same angle as the glass, and using it as a support during storage and installation. You can push it up in the corner exactly as the glass would fit.

You didn't mention the mouldings that run up along the sides of the windshield, along the top of the door openings, and join with the mouldings in 1), above. If you're going to all this trouble, I'd definately pull these, too. Pull the roof rail weatherstrip free from the flange on this moulding, and drill out the 9 rivets holding it in place. You can get replacement rivets from any glass shop. Go carefully here. One slip, and you'll put a nasty ding in the moulding with the drill.

Also, if you're not already planning to do so, this is the golden opportunity to replace the black-out decal behind the front windows. You can peel the old decals off with a little bit of heat. Clean up the residual adhesive with a little solvent. You can get replacements from a source that I can't remember right now for about $20. I got these for my XR7, and they're excellent. I can look up the source if you're interested. Many people paint this area, but it's not as durable as the decal. Plus, the decal is correct.

My advise, for what it's worth, is go to the local salvage yard, and practice on a junker. You'll quickly get the hang of removing these pieces without risking your 35th., and you'll be an expert in no time.

Good Luck!!

JD
 
Here's some pics from my cougar. hope they are helpful.

sean
 

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1) You can still get brand-spanking new windshield upper moldings from Ford. Victor at Spinning Wheels SC also carries them. If you're going to the trouble to repaint the car, why not splurge for a new set. I think they run about $35 or so, each.



You didn't mention the mouldings that run up along the sides of the windshield, along the top of the door openings.

Also, this is the golden opportunity to replace the black-out decal behind the front windows. Many people paint this area, but it's not as durable as the decal. Plus, the decal is correct.

My advise, for what it's worth, is go to the local salvage yard, and practice on a junker. You'll quickly get the hang of removing these pieces without risking your 35th., and you'll be an expert in no time.

Good Luck!!

JD

All good tips...thanks!

I didn't know the moldings were still available new...I will definately get a pair!

I didn't mention the belt-line door moldings or the mirrors because I already know how to remove those. I am definately taking everything off the car that I can.

I plan on replacing the black-out decal on the vertical B-post of the door. This appears to be a simple peice of black trim tape. Can't that be had from any generic trim tape supplier, and cut to fit?

I know all about those friggin' window runs...I was just hoping they weren't the same as in my Mark VIIs. I trashed a set getting them out, and bought a junker parts car and cut the doors apart to get the useable set out for replacement. Definately a pain.
Are the window runs still available from Ford?

I only paid $450 for this car, and it had a perfect body until this accident. I've spent a few bucks on it already: All synthetic fluids, fixed the electrical gremlins, new radiator, belts and hoses...that kind of stuff.
As it is now, everything works as it is supposed to, except the mirrors, which I'm having a little trouble tracking down the cause.
At this point, I don't want to put a big-$ paint job on it, because then it makes a 'good deal' a 'not-such-a-good-deal' anymore.
 
All good tips...thanks!

I didn't know the moldings were still available new...I will definately get a pair!

I didn't mention the belt-line door moldings or the mirrors because I already know how to remove those. I am definately taking everything off the car that I can.

I plan on replacing the black-out decal on the vertical B-post of the door. This appears to be a simple peice of black trim tape. Can't that be had from any generic trim tape supplier, and cut to fit?

I know all about those friggin' window runs...I was just hoping they weren't the same as in my Mark VIIs. I trashed a set getting them out, and bought a junker parts car and cut the doors apart to get the useable set out for replacement. Definately a pain.
Are the window runs still available from Ford?

I only paid $450 for this car, and it had a perfect body until this accident. I've spent a few bucks on it already: All synthetic fluids, fixed the electrical gremlins, new radiator, belts and hoses...that kind of stuff.
As it is now, everything works as it is supposed to, except the mirrors, which I'm having a little trouble tracking down the cause.
At this point, I don't want to put a big-$ paint job on it, because then it makes a 'good deal' a 'not-such-a-good-deal' anymore.

Not the belt line mouldings, the windshield side and top door opening mouldings. These are the ones that trim the LH and RH edges of the windshield, and continue back along the TOP of the door openings (by your head).

You can fabricate the black-out decals by yourself, I suppose. But, I ordered the set that were already cut to size and shape (they're not simply rectangular), and had facing paper with guide lines marked. To me, that was easier than trying to fuss with cutting a set. Cheap too.

If you get the car warm first, the runs will release easier. Also, use a soapy solution to ease them off. Patience and a light touch are key also. The good thing is that the salvage yards are full of them, and they're usually good. Cheap too. I'm sure the glass runs have been obsoleted long ago by Ford. At any rate, they'd be very expensive from the dealer. I've pulled several sets, so it CAN be done. Just takes a lot of time and swearin'.

Real glad to hear you're fixing the car. If you do the preparation right, it doesn't take a high-buck paint job to look good. Factory paint jobs weren't all that great anyway. With the new color/clear systems out there, you can get a very respectible job for decent money. Sounds like you're doing the right thing with stripping the trim off the car. You might also consider pulling the front and rear bumper covers, and having them prepped and shot seperately. It might actually save you some money if you pull the covers yourself. Just have the shop do a little extra blocking on the body to get it nice and straight. Since it's black, all the waves will show. Be careful with those 35th. fender emblems; they're kind of hard to replace! Sounds like you got a great deal on the car, and it'll be super-nice when you get it back together. Post some photos when it's out of the paint booth.

Good Luck,

JD
 
Yeah, I see what you see referring to about the windshield moldings along the sides of the windshield. I didn't realize they went all the way back to the start of the 1/4-roof joint moldings...I thought they ended at the top of the windshield.
I would like to remove the bumpers and such, but it just isn't in the plan, money-wise. The body shop wants extra money for that work for some reason! I can't seem to get anyone to work for free anymore!

I'm hoping it comes out decent. The body is really straight, only 2 little dings. One on the side with the damage, so that will be taken care of, and the other on the other side, but that is gonna be fixed also.
The front bumper has some chips in it, so that will be sanded and blocked out to be smooth.
Other than that there is no other damage, so it may be all right.

I'm desperatly trying to keep this thing on a budget. So far, there is only a $500 cost to me for the paint job after the insurance company pays thier share for the damage.

I have already decided that if it does not come out the way I want it...I will just make it looks as good as I can, and then I will sell it.

But I really like the car, so I got my fingers crossed!
 
...I would like to remove the bumpers and such, but it just isn't in the plan, money-wise. The body shop wants extra money for that work for some reason!...


You should be able to pull the bumper covers yourself pretty easy. I can scan and email you the pages from the FSM if you want. I don't think it's too much work to pull the covers. This should actually make their job easier (and cheaper), since they won't have to do any prep or painting up under the car. The bonus is that you can properly mask the body to eliminate the nasty overspray that gets through the many front bumper cover openings. Let me know if you want the scans.

JD
 
Might want to look at pictures of cars without door side moulding. I left mine off and it looks better in my opinion. If it is a daily driver you might want to leave them on. Another thing use a high quality clear coat if you go dual stage. It will buff out so much nicer if you take it to that level.

Ken
 
Might want to look at pictures of cars without door side moulding. I left mine off and it looks better in my opinion. If it is a daily driver you might want to leave them on. Another thing use a high quality clear coat if you go dual stage. It will buff out so much nicer if you take it to that level.

Ken

Really clean looking car, there. I'm a sucker for red. Very well executed.

JD
 
With the side moldings off, it will look strange considering the molded-in portions on the bumpers. I will probably reinstall them after it is painted.
 
The front bumper is pretty easy to pull. I plan to paint my replacement bumper off the car. I peeled the vinyl door stickers off of mine and dont think I will put them back on. If I dont like it once its finished, I will use a bumper black paint instead of another nasty sticker.
 
The front bumper is pretty easy to pull. I plan to paint my replacement bumper off the car. I peeled the vinyl door stickers off of mine and dont think I will put them back on. If I dont like it once its finished, I will use a bumper black paint instead of another nasty sticker.

Paint isn't as durable in that area as the decal. It will look fine painted, but the edge will be succeptable to chipping. The decal can handle a little more abuse. Besides, it takes years for the decals to get "nasty". If you keep the car inside and waxed, the originals/replacements should last for years. Both of my '89's have their originals, and are in fine shape. I think it's all in how clean the substrate is before applying the decals. A fingerprint is enough to allow wrinkling and bubbling over time. Just a theory.

JD
 
Update: The first shop I was at was not really making me feel all that comfortable. I mentioned about removing the bumpers, they did not want it that way.
The owner also said this to me as I was asking about some of the stone chips: "This isn't gonna be a custom paint job, you know. There are chips and imperfections that are still be there." I didn't much care for that.

Now this morning they were supposed to start working on the car, and as I was re-reading the invoice, I see that it says 'Buffing out the paint is an extra $700'.
When I called to ask about this he says "There are always gonna be some 'dust-bunnies' (his words) and fish-eye in the surface unless you want to pay extra to have them removed."
I asked about why there is dust in the pint, he says can't be helped. I say I see paint jobs all the time with no dust in them, doesn't he know how to properly paint cars?
I told him to not start on the car 'till I got there and he could show me an example of these 'dust-bunnies'.
Also, he told me he uses DuPont paint, but in fact it was Nason (a low-line cheaper DuPont product I believe).
When I got there I just said "Give me the keys. I don't think I would let you paint a dumpster for me."
I took the car home, and on the way, I passed by a brand-new( 6 months maybe) body shop about 2 miles from my house.
The General Manager was very polite professional, the shop was spotless, and the employees were all clean.
I asked to see some examples of thier work, and they had just finished a 70 Mach 1. Paint was beautiful, no 'dust-bunnies', and no fish-eye that I could see. Beautiful gloss.
Anyway, he said he would do the entire car for the same price I had a deal for at the other place ($1,600). And that includes buffing/wet-sanding the finished product!
I told him I would remove all the trim and he said that was great. He volunteered that if there was any trim I could not get off, not to worry. He would have his guys take it off and reinstall it for no extra charge.
He showed mr several cars they had worked on and they all looked great.He told me about a device they have that scans the paint on the good portion of a car and gives a computerized formula so that the new mixed paint will match perfectly. On several cars I could not see any difference in the paint.
He also showed me his paint booth. Said it was a $180,000 down-draft booth, whatever that means.
Anyway, this guy was obviously proud of his shop, employees and thier work. That is exactly the kind of guy I like to do business with.
Instead of telling me how bad the new paint job will look as soon as it comes out of the booth like the first guy, this guy tells me how great it's gonna look, how happy I'll be and that everything they do is garaunteed for life of the original purchaser.
When I asked about having the bumpers removed for painting he says" Of course. We'll do that, you don't have to worry about it. Feel free to come by and watch the work and take pictures if you want to."

I am much more enthusiastic about this shop than the last.

I am dropping the car off there Monday morning.
 
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I have learned by working at my in laws body shop that the more the customer wants to help, the more you want to beware. It always starts out innocent enough, but more often than not, ends in a dispute of some kind. I can see that part of his business ethic, but the dust and fisheyes and charging more to buff them out? A lot of that comes from the quality of the clear coat, temperature, filter type and how clean they are, prep work prep work and some more prep work. You should spend more time getting your booth ready for the car than you do painting the thing.

Downdraft is superior to the old traditional side draft. It pulls the dust and over spray straight down through the floor of the booth instead of dragging it sideways across the surface of the car. They are not cheap booths as my in laws just put one in. Sounds like you found a good shop in the end. :)
 
Congratulations; you found a good one. I have the same kind of shop here in town. Professional all the way, nice shop and equipment, and everything always turns out great.

You did exactly the right thing at that first shop. Run, do not walk, away from people like that. Trying to make you feel bad for requesting good work isn't a way to build a business.

JD
 
Well, I took the car apart as much as I could today. The only things I didn't remove were the door handles/locks (couldn't figure it out), the keyless entry pad(again...couldn't figure it out.) the bumpers (didn't have time) and the side moldings(could'nt figure out how to do it without destroying the moldings.)
All the side glass is out, all roof and window moldings are off, and the body GFX kit is off. All the lights are off too. And all the other little stuff.
I took the car to the shop just now, so it could be parked indoors over the weekend, since it has no glass in it.
The owner was there and this was the first time I met him. His name is U.N. and he is a very nice guy...extremely pleasant and great with 'customer service'. He said not to worry, they would remove all the stuff I couldn't get to, plus the window runs.
All in all, they seem like a really good place to go to.

Got my fingers crossed!
 
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Just ordered some parts for the car:

1)New upper reveal moldings for both the front and back windows. (the ones I have now have crappy-looking rubber on them)

2) A new 'Ford' emblem for the trunk lid, the old one had some peeling/green chrome.

3) New headlight clips. The old ones are hard to get off and a couple of the broke during removal.

Surprisingly, getting the '35th Anniversary' emblems off the fenders was easy. I just used some picture-hanging wire and sawed back and forth until the 2-sided tape was seperated. Never had to even touch the actual emblem, it just came right off. I have read in several books that the emblems were designed completely disintegrate if any attempt was made to remove them to prevent 'clones' from being made. Pretty poor 'anti-theft' technology: They came right off in perfect condition, and I have never done it before!
By the way, who the hell would go to the trouble to clone one of these? I think it will be a LONG time (if ever) before they have so much value that there will be 'clones' to worry about.
Its a nice car, but it ain't an old Shelby for crissakes!
 
Update: I just checked the body-shop and the progress of the car. Wow, they do great work! ALL the extra trim that I couldn't get off has been removed, and the 1/4 panel has been repaired. It looks great.
The bumpers covers are off and they will be painted seperately. They sanded all the old paint and clear coat off,which a lot of places don't do.
They are using Dupont Chroma Premier paint...does anybody have an opinion of that paint?
Chris, the G.M told me the paint has a lifetime gaurantee against chipping, fading or peeling! Awesome!
 
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Here are some pics:
 

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