SC on Ethanol

SCotto

Registered User
Thinking about running my SC on Ethanol.

Pros: High Octane (112 or so)
Runs cooler
Burns cleaner
Don't need cats
Exempt from emissions
Can run more compression, more Boost and more Timing (thinking about running those new heads when they become available)
Cons: Hard to get fuel (But I'm thinking I could distill my own)

Has anyone here ever run One of these motors on Ethanol ?
Thanks for any input,
Scott
 
Like pure ethonal or E85? Your car is not designed for that, and it will damage your fuel system rather badly. The alcohol content in E85 is more then our fuel system can handle.

Thomas
 
Yes pure Ethanol. I know the SC was not designed for it and I realize I would need a larger fuel pump, bigger injectors(It needs about 1/3 more fuel to air) and I'd have to tune the computer.

What other problems do you think I might have?

Would I need special Injectors and fuel pump to handle the corosive nature of alcohol?

From what I'v read so far I think these motors would run great on Ethanol if properly designed for it. My SC is has the typical blown head gasket and I'm going to be rebuilding the motor soon, so I'm trying to think out of the box.

Where would we be If we didn't push the limits?

SCott
 
"But I'm thinking I could distill my own"

No offense man, but I can't see how the pros could possibly outweigh this con.

From my personal experience, I haven't operated a still since I left West Virginia, and I sure wouldn't want to have to fire one up again just to feed my car.
 
No offense man, but I was not asking you to.
They been running cars on Ethanol before gas was even invented so I don't see why I can't. Yes I might have to design a fuel system etc. for it and that is the question.
I was asking how I can, not why I can't. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought this club was trying to push the envelop of what is possible with the SC. I see alot of possibilitys in running a fuel with 112 octane.
 
It would be 100x easier and more cost effective to just run race fuel. And that "man" you weren't talking to, has more knowledge about cars and life then just about anyone else around here, so you might want to shut your mouth and show him a little respect.

Thomas
 
"But I'm thinking I could distill my own"

No offense man, but I can't see how the pros could possibly outweigh this con.

From my personal experience, I haven't operated a still since I left West Virginia, and I sure wouldn't want to have to fire one up again just to feed my car.

Holy ~~~~ your an old school member. Nice car John! ;)
 
#1 I ment no disrespect. If I misworded my post and if John took offense I do apologize.

#2 I'm not looking for reasons why I shouln't run alcohol. I have plenty on time and money.

#3 I'm looking for anyone (if there is anyone) with experience running an SC or other fuel injected, supercharged, computer controled car on alcohol.

#4 Specifically I'm trying to find out if I need injectors, fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel rails, fuel pressure regulator etc. to handle the corrosive nature of Ethanol.
 
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I have done this conversion on quite a few cars, its not that difficult. I have even done this conversion so that you can run any mix of gasoline and or alcohol from 100% alcohol to 100% Gasoline and every blend in between. IF you are going to set your vehicle up to run on 100% ethanol it is NOT difficult, just follow the rules for building an alky car, and everything will work just fine. If you remap your ignition maps for ethanol you WILL gain quite a bit of power. In addition to that, blower cars like the cooling effect.

Don't let your car sit for long periods of time. Any left over alky in the cylinders will rust the walls. Your oil will need to be changed on a more regular basis, and DO NOT run low tension racing rings in a car that will see ANY street time. I would look into a light weight petroleum lube to be injected during shut down. Something similar to a setup for water injection would be best to add the lubricant. Only add the lubricant during shut down. Don't expect the car to start easily in the extreme cold. Have fun, and keep us up to date on the build.
 
I would say go for it, i like when people think outside the box. I myself have contemplated the use of ethanol or alcohol. i don't see why there would be any reason not to try it. I am going to have a Hogan sheetmetal high rise intake made probably for next year to be able to run a big centrifugal blower and was going to have extra fuel injector bungs put in so i could run 12 injectors to make up the extra fuel needed if i decided to go alcohol.

Not my daily driver but I would like to run it on the street and the track.
 
I'd think the most important part regarding the fuel system hardware itself is getting rid of all the plain steel fuel tubing. Car Craft actually did a test of a motor (12.5:1 SBC) on 115 race gas and E85 (105 octane). The E85 made more midrange power than the 115, virtually the same peak power and around here it cost $2/gal vs $6/gal. Going from memory, but it was something like that and was in the Nov or Dec 2006 Car Craft.

Ethanol will try to absorb water, so leaving it sit would be a bad idea as mentioned above. Also, it'll eat plain steel, so replace the stock steel fuel lines with something more tolerant. Some Tbird have plastic lines out of the tank, but I'm not sure what could be done with the fuel pickup. I think it's plain steel and could corrode in the tank which would be bad. Tuning it would be a bit of a task. With a narrowband O2 sensor (standard on the SCs) it won't read past about 13:1 Air/Fuel. I think even E85 needs about 13:1 at cruise versus 14.7:1 as commanded by the EEC. And at full power you'd need to get it down to 9:1. Some of the stock EEC tables have a 9.9 Air/Fuel in them, but it would be borderline.

I'm actually considering trying E85 in my SC when I get the LM1 wideband fixed. E85 would be a little more stable than straight Ethanol and I can get it at the Sheetz (think 7-11) beside work for $1.96/gal.

I'd lookup fuel system design for a dirt track late model. Most of them are running alky of some kind. They have carbs and not injection, but for lines and hardware would be a good place to start.

Steve
 
Why don't you just use alcohol injection and save yourself all the headaches,

Pros even a 40/60 mix = 104+ octane
Intakce Temp drop over 150 degrees
EGT temp drop up to 250 degrees
Steam cleaned engine internals
Simple install
can cost under $200
No knock so better for headgaskets
Go pre blower and pick up a psi or two of boost and faster ramp up of SC.

I noticed a nice pick up in power and throttle response after i installed it on my beater SC.

And it's not because I own one of the companies that makes kits, it because we know it works.
 
#1 I ment no disrespect. If I misworded my post and if John took offense I do apologize.
...

Not to belabor this, Scott, but no apology is necessary. I was just surprised to hear that you might be willing to make your own ethanol; not the idea of using it. Maybe my post came off sounding too critical. Good luck with it.

Thanks, Thomas & Tom.

Peace...
 
Unlike the copy and paste guys we actually test our stuff on different vehicles, Pre-blower on a M90 makes the supercharger ramp up quicker and gives you up to 2 psi more boost depending on what nozzle size you use. The reason being is that it creates a better seal between the rotors. It's just how i prefered mine. I have 2 mounting point one after the IC and one pre blower, You don't get the faster boost and the extra psi when it's there and it does not cool down the IC.


You don't do pre IC on any other vehicles that are not superchared, The blower increases already great atomization of the mist. With the amount of CFM your pushing through you will not get any pooling in the IC. People always say (yeah it will pool in your IC, Well maybe if you were running a water hose in your intake:rolleyes:

Second benefit, It keeps the IC cold as well, Better so than just a fan, When the methanol mix is going through the entire system stays ICE cold from the throttle body right the intake manifold. If you have a fan it will now work even better because even if your sucking hot air accross the IC the air will still be cooled down by the alcohol injection.

I'm taking this car to Guam for the next three years as my beater so i want to keep things as cool as possible. Plus i like not having to waste money on premium fuel.:D

Lets just say i ran 17psi of boost with no IC and 26 degrees of timing on my GTP with no knock. You can't do that with just race gas or just the IC with the mods i had.
 
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Hi Dvldoc,

Is there still a artcle / thread over there on the GTP web page about a guy who measured the vibrational freqency of his motor and then adjusted the settings for the knock sensor?
 
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