PDA

View Full Version : New Valve spring option for SC's with stock valves...



XR7 Dave
02-23-2007, 03:12 PM
We have been working with a couple suppliers to address the issues that SC people have with valve spring choices when using stock valves. If you don't know, the problems are that the stock valves install so short that there are very few valve springs to choose from. Choices are further limited by the fact that the lower spring perch prohibits the use of a dual spring without machine work. Then add to that the fact that valve retainer to guide clearance is short as well and you are very limited in valve lift.

What we have done is come up with a way to use Beehive springs that fit the stock spring seats, 10 deg locks that fit the stock valves, and a new custom titanium retainer that fits both the 10 deg locks and the beehive spring all while providing an additional .050" clearance with a stock valve.

These featuers makes this the first and only drop in replacement valvespring combination for stock valve heads. The beehive spring that we are using will allow up to .570" lift on stock valves and will provide sufficient spring pressure for 6200rpm and 20psi boost. This is the setup you need if you want to run high boost on a stock motor or just if you have been running the traditional Comp 942's on your SC and are looking for something that won't float the valves at 5500rpm.

Cost for the complete setup including the springs, locks, and titanium retainers is $250 shipped in the lower 48.

I'll be posting pictures and and more details later today. This is a very cool thing for people with ported stock valve heads and cams. If you currently have over .500" lift and stock valves, this is pretty much guaranteed to pick up both HP and reliability and the best part is you don't have to pull the heads to install them.

David

{edit} Here's a shot of the new setup along side a Comp 942 with the stock retainer, both on stock valves. The 942 has a max lift of .520 whereas the beehive has a max lift of .580". Valve seal clearance dictates a safe max of .570" but if you don't mind pushing the limits you can go higher. This retainer will not hit a standard valve seal until .660" lift.

The beehive spring offers increase spring seat pressures and increased control with less overall pressure and lighter weight in combination with more lift range capability. The beehive combination weighs 30% less than the Comp 942 setup with most of that weight coming off the top where the greatest movement is.

:)

the-big-e
02-23-2007, 11:09 PM
When are they going to be available.....

XR7 Dave
02-23-2007, 11:58 PM
They are available now.

SRT-4
02-24-2007, 12:06 AM
I wonder if this is what I have.................?

XR7 Dave
02-24-2007, 09:03 AM
I wonder if this is what I have.................?No, it isn't. These only came available as of yesterday. If you haven't used them yet you can upgrade to these if you want.

rzimmerl
02-24-2007, 09:11 AM
Is this a 1 time buy or will these be an item that you can get regularly from SCU?

XR7 Dave
02-24-2007, 09:39 AM
This is not a one time buy. If we have enough people who would buy them at once I'll create a group buy though.

If we can get 4 or more units pre-sold the price will drop to $225/set shipped. Post here if you would be in.

tim
02-24-2007, 11:58 AM
Hey Sparky will these springs work with my setup? Is it a good upgrade for me since I turn over 5500 rpms?:eek:

the-big-e
02-24-2007, 12:19 PM
I will definitely take a set.....:D

Maybe two......:rolleyes:

XR7 Dave
02-24-2007, 02:18 PM
Hey Sparky will these springs work with my setup? Is it a good upgrade for me since I turn over 5500 rpms?:eek:

Tim, you already have aftermarket valves and as we know the retainers are not your problem. You can run these springs, but I don't think that valve springs are currently limiting you.

tim
02-24-2007, 06:19 PM
Alrighty then.D

92bird
02-25-2007, 08:27 PM
Dave, I'm definitly in if we can do a group buy. I am in no hurry for the springs, as my new build won't be happening for awhile, but I will buy them now at $225 if we can do the group buy. Otherwise I will wait.

This changes my cam selection for the new motor! :)

Jeramie

XR7 Dave
02-25-2007, 08:36 PM
We are doing the group buy. Anyone who wants them at $225 shipped, speak up now. I'll be ordering the additional parts on Wednesday.

Check or MO prefered, please email me to let me know when funds are sent:

SuperCoupes Unlimited
6277 Scotland St.
Madison, OH 44057

Paypal accepted at mdkracing@alltel.net but you'll need to add 3% to cover fees.

Thanks!

the-big-e
02-25-2007, 08:43 PM
Count me in.....

PM me on where to send the funds....

ndiiorio
03-01-2007, 11:34 PM
i sent you an email the other day about the valve springs, can i still order some?

XR7 Dave
03-02-2007, 12:37 AM
Yes, I replied back. If you did not get my email please send me a PM. I seem to be having some issues with my email.

XxSlowpokexX
03-02-2007, 11:48 AM
Dave,

I have a set of those oversized Renegade Racing Valves that use the
Crane Cams 96803-16 springs....Can these be used with them or are these valves taller then factory..I havent measured anything


Damon

ndiiorio
03-02-2007, 02:34 PM
i just want to make sure im clear on the specs...
what is the installed height? coil bind? and the open and closed pressure?

93tbird06
03-08-2007, 02:54 AM
Dave, i'm interested in order a set of new valve spring ship to Canada.

XR7 Dave
03-08-2007, 09:30 AM
i just want to make sure im clear on the specs...
what is the installed height? coil bind? and the open and closed pressure?

Sorry, meant to reply to your email but went to look up open pressure with a stock cam (that's what you have, right?) and didn't make it back.

Seat pressure is 135# @ 1.700
Coil bind is @ 1.030
Open pressure at max lift is 310# @ 1.100
On a stock cam max pressure would be 265# @ 1.255.

Because these are beehive springs in conjunction with titanium retainers and their general lightweight design, these springs are able to provide the higher seat pressures that a forced induction motor needs without overpowering the hydraulic lifter at high lift.

For anyone with aftermarket valves your final installed height will be somewhat taller and may require shimming. The ultimate limiter of valve lift with these springs on stock valves is clearance to the valve seal which starts to get close at .570" lift. With an aftermarket valve you can run up to .600" lift with these springs.

ndiiorio
03-08-2007, 02:15 PM
thanks, im looking forward to installing them.

92bird
03-21-2007, 09:40 PM
Got mine in the mail.. Thanks Dave! They look awesome and those retainers are super light.

Jeramie

cmill95
09-28-2007, 12:06 PM
i'll take a set. only thing is i won't be back from the middle east till halloween.

should i PM?

XR7 Dave
09-29-2007, 12:53 AM
Sorry guys, cost for the special retainers has gone up to the point that it's just not cost effective anymore. I don't plan to do any more of these.

92bird
10-02-2007, 10:05 PM
Dave,

As you know I already have a set of these. Do you know if anyone makes titanium locks that would work on the stock valves with the special retainers?

Would the further reduced weight have any advantage over the steel locks?

Jeramie

S_Mazza
06-08-2009, 12:24 PM
Thread resurrection ... for a good cause!

Just was browsing the Comp Cams website and saw this listed as a "New" product. These are 10-degree steel retainers for beehive springs. I wonder if these may replace the old titanium retainers that were used before, but got way too expensive. It would be nice if this could bring back the beehive option, so I just wanted to put this out there for everyone to see and comment upon.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=795-16

Here are the specs:

http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/308-309.pdf

XR7 Dave
06-08-2009, 01:48 PM
No, those will not work. Anything listed for 3.8/4.2L is automatically for 7mm valves so you can disregard that. Then there are the 10 deg 4-G locks for Ford which are 11/32" and will fit but the problem with those is that the resulting valve spring installed height is far too low. The custom retainers I had made raised the spring installed height a full .120".

These retainers are still available, it's just that I'm not going to stock any because of the cost and limited application. Frankly, after some rather extensive testing on my part, it is my opinion that using stock valves whenever doing any performance upgrade on an SC engine would be a misfortunate waste of time and money.

That being said, if anyone really wants some I can get them made for you, but cost for the retainers alone is $175.

S_Mazza
06-08-2009, 02:23 PM
It's not listed for the 3.8. As I said, I happened to come across it as a new product. The technical PDF says those 795 retainers fit "all" valve stem diameters. Now, that's obviously a little too vague, so let's assume that they fit the other sizes shown in the chart - 3/8", 11/32", and 7mm. That would cover all the valves we would be likely to use. You just need to use the proper locks for your valve.

I see what you mean about the installed height. I forgot that this thread was primarily about the 26918 springs, which are designed for 1.800" installed height. However, I saw these springs, 26995, which have a designed installed height of 1.700", much better for us.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=26995-16&Category_Code=

So that's what I was trying to say, would this combination work? (Assuming that you don't want to change your valves.)

Flip
06-08-2009, 05:19 PM
LOL, Just saw that this was over two years old.

XR7 Dave
06-08-2009, 05:42 PM
Steve,

It's not a new part. Trust me they don't work, I have all of those parts and part #'s sitting here on my bench and it just doesn't work because the installed height of the springs ends up being way too short with the Comp Cams retainers and 10 deg 4 groove locks.

Flip,

We could run the beehive setup at the top of this post, but cost would be high.

Valve springs $150
Retainers $175
Valve locks $29

Total $368 + shipping.

I actually lost money last time offering everything for $250. My math was bad but the cost of the retainers has more than doubled since then and the rest of the parts have gone up also. :rolleyes:

S_Mazza
06-08-2009, 06:26 PM
Okey dokey, just thought I would put it out there since I came across it.