This makes me mad

[ThunderDave]

I just had my car in the shop the first week of March to have the lower control arms replaced, along with a tie rod end or two. Yesterday, I was finishing up doing the end links and front brakes and I spot this. There is a cut or tear in the bottom of the boot. :mad:

I got in touch with the mechanic to see if he or the place where he bought the parts would warranty it and he said he'd need to see it. I'm taking it by there today for him to look at. This guy has been a life long friend and has always done good work. So I don't know if the boot was bad, or it was damaged during install or if it somehow got damaged since then.

Oh, and the nut that goes on the ball joint for the lower arm on the other side was loose and had about 1/4 play in it. :mad: After this is resolved, I don't think I'll have him doing any more work on my car. Being friends is one thing, but to me that just not acceptable mechanic work.

I'll update after he looks at it today.

[7birdslater]

Where did the arms come from? Could it be old stock and brittle rubber from sitting too long on a shelf somewhere? probably not, but just a thought.

[ThunderDave]

He looked at it this afternoon and he said it looks like something had hit it. Of course he was questioning my ability to do the front brakes and implied that maybe I had done it when doing the brakes or end links.

I told him I wasn't anywhere near it and that I didn't do it. He gave no indication that it could have possibly happened while he had the car or was like that when he put it on. And as for the loose nut, he blamed that on vibration due to the rotors being warped and the tires possibly being out of balance. They weren't loose before on the old control arms.

I don't know, but I would think if you tighten those the way they are suppose to be, they ain't coming loose that easy. And if so, why wasn't the other side loose as well? I've known him so long, I hate to think he would do me that way. He won't be working on my car anymore though.

He thinks the boot will be ok. :eek: He said if I wanted him to put another one on, he would, but I'd have to pay for it. :eek:

The rubber seemed soft and not hard and brittle. For now, I'm gonna keep my eye on it and if it gets worse, I'll replace it myself.

[scbird1]

It looks like he had to take it off again because the tool for removing them will cut the boot like that. Anyhow you can just replace the boot as they do sell them but it just sucks to tear it apart again. I just got done putting upper and lower CA`s on my 93 and there is a order as the brake line routeing is un clear when its all apart.

[ThunderDave]

Like yours, I still have a rattle on mine. I didn't replace any of the bushing yet or the shocks. But the end links, and upper & lower control have been done. Mine isn't a constant rattle, just occasionally. I might look into getting that boot replaced if the tear starts to get bigger.

[doug93sc]

Chances are probably 1 in a million that something would fly up and cut the boot so perfectly like that so I am pretty sure he tore that when installing it and didnt think you would notice. Sucks that a "friend" would do that to you.

There is no way that vibration from warped rotors could cause the nut to come loose. He put it on and forgot to tighten it all the way.

[ThunderDave]

That's what I think, because the nut wasn't even snugged. This guy has a mechanical ego like you wouldn't believe and to get him to admit he had made a mistake would be impossible. The bad thing is, the end links I took off weren't that loose, so maybe most of the noise I was hearing was from that nut not being tightened.

I'm glad I found that though before I found out the hard way. :eek:

[doug93sc]

I work on a fair amount of cars on the side and occasionaly I will make a mistake but I admit it. The good thing for me is the mistakes just make me double and triple check everything especially if it a big job that I don't want to again for free.:)

I would say that the loose nut was probably some of the noise you were hearing if not all of it.

[cbt]

looks like the fork tore the boot -replace the boot -no need to get dirt in there -we know what that will do.

and another thing comes to mind ,isn't there a carter-pin used in that after the nut s been tightened ,don't know the sc lay-out -but thats how my other cars work ,if so the bolt would'nt come loose

cheers:)

[ThunderDave]

They don't have castle nuts on them. I can't remember if the old ones did or not. Antone remember off hand if they are supposed to have castle nuts and cotter pins?

[scbird1]

The only ones that have the castle nuts are the tierod ends.
All others have locking nuts. I still have my rattle and the only thing I have yet to change is the actual sway bar bushing under the motor but when I had the end links off there is now way that could make noise. He!! maybe its the tires:rolleyes:

[BlkBirds]

Definitely a pickle fork tear!! He either had to get it back apart for some reason, or used the old boot when it went back together (:confused: ). When you take it apart to replace that boot, grab two big hammers. Put one on one side of the spindle, right where the ball joint bolts in, hold it tight against. (Try to find a way to get a little pressure on the joint to help it separate.) Then as close as you can get to 180 degrees, whack with the other hammer. Kinda tricky with these, but that way you can get it apart without a pickle fork. I was shown this trick by my dad, years ago. I've never used a boot-ripping pickle fork again!!!
Good luck!;) Kurt

P.S. Yes, they use "Ny-loc" nuts, instead of castles. "One time use"

[ThunderDave]

It does look like that kind of tear to me too. Wonder why he wouldn't admit or at least say that it might have happened while he was working on it. I guess his ego doesn't allow him to let others know that he didn't do something right or that he messed something up.

Thanks for the info and all input.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Just Confirming..No way something hit that and that happened. Definitely an installation type issue..Tell him YOULL pay for the boot and he installs it!

Hat efor dirt to get in that brand new unit

[90coug]

Just goes to show that even an old friend can do ya dirty, trust no one.

[ThunderDave]

Well, I noticed the front end was making some creaking noises again, so I looked underneath and what did I see???? The lower control arm boot pictured above with the cut in it, is completely gone. Funny how my "friend" who worked on it for me, told me it would be "ok" like that. Now I'm looking to replace it again. He told me he would do it, but I'm not sure I want him working on it again.

[mywhite89]

Well, I noticed the front end was making some creaking noises again, so I looked underneath and what did I see???? The lower control arm boot pictured above with the cut in it, is completely gone. Funny how my "friend" who worked on it for me, told me it would be "ok" like that. Now I'm looking to replace it again. He told me he would do it, but I'm not sure I want him working on it again.

Guy seems like a jackass. Makes you wonder what runs through peoples heads. You think he really beleived that you hit something or messed it up when doing brakes? No respect. If someone doesn't respect your word, they sure as heck wont respect your car either. Find someone that wont mind you being their to help.

Hardest part of your job, is taking the initiative to just do it yourself and be confident in your work. If you buy the complete lower control arm, do it yourself for sure. Its just a matter of taking bolts out and putting them back on. I always like to have a front-end alignment done when I replace something on the suspension. When you do the job, put a jack under the suspension to put a little bit of a load on everything before you get the rear bolts on the bushings nice and tight. This will ensure that your lower control arm bushings seat themselves at a normal ride height. Good luck

[the-big-e]

Bring it on over here and let Dave put a new one on for you.....

I'll take us out for lunch while he's doing it....

Got all your X-mas shopping done?

We can got to Carolina Place Mall, if you want.....:rolleyes:

[ThunderDave]

If I can get one and get that way, I will, but it might be after Christmas before I might have the chance.

[the-big-e]

I will have plenty of free time after this final week of school and the start of the next semester on Jan 10, 08 :D

[mikeceli]

Chances are probably 1 in a million that something would fly up and cut the boot so perfectly like that so I am pretty sure he tore that when installing it and didnt think you would notice. Sucks that a "friend" would do that to you.

There is no way that vibration from warped rotors could cause the nut to come loose. He put it on and forgot to tighten it all the way.

I agree. If it were my shop, I would order a boot and replace it fast, no charge!

[ThunderDave]

Well, it keeps getting better and better. I was picking the kids up from school today and while pulling out into the street, a loud grinding noise and vibration was coming from under the car. Good thing we were going slow. :eek: I stopped the car and got out to see what was wrong. The stud for the lower control arm ball joint had snapped. The control arm was now resting on th inside of the rim and cutting a little groove into the inside of the rim. I picked up several pieces of aluminum shavings off the road.

I called the "mechanic" that had done the work and told him about it, as well as the other side that didn't have the boot any more and he sounded surprised. :rolleyes: I had it towed to his shop and I guess I'll find out tomorrow what he plans to do to fix it. I can't see how a good control should fail in less than a year. And right before Christmas too. :mad:

[doug93sc]

Well, it keeps getting better and better. I was picking the kids up from school today and while pulling out into the street, a loud grinding noise and vibration was coming from under the car. Good thing we were going slow. :eek: I stopped the car and got out to see what was wrong. The stud for the lower control arm ball joint had snapped. The control arm was now resting on th inside of the rim and cutting a little groove into the inside of the rim. I picked up several pieces of aluminum shavings off the road.

I called the "mechanic" that had done the work and told him about it, as well as the other side that didn't have the boot any more and he sounded surprised. :rolleyes: I had it towed to his shop and I guess I'll find out tomorrow what he plans to do to fix it. I can't see how a good control should fail in less than a year. And right before Christmas too. :mad:

This guy just sounds like bad news...hopefully he fixes it for free and then never go t ohim again:rolleyes:

[mikeceli]

The damage probably BEGAN when you operated the car with the ball joint nut, not properly tightened(unknown to you).

The tapered stud MUST be tight in the tapered hole, for proper strenght and to avoid failure. Once the loose stud began "walking" in the tapered hole, damage to both parts will usually result.

If the "mechanic" tightened the stud nut(he left loose) without inspecting and replaceing the tapered parts as needed, failure is iminent.

When I read your initial post, I was concerned the "mechanic" would cheap out, on correcting his mistake, but hoped he would fix it properly.

[ThunderDave]

I haven't heard from him yet. I hope he's just going to fix it right this time and call me when it's ready. Maybe if he had listen to me from the beginning instead of making excuses about how it got the way it was, all this could have been avoided.

I'm just glad the stud didn't snap when I was on the highway at speed.

[ThunderDave]

Well, as expected, he says I must have hit something very hard for it to break like that. I told him I hadn't and I think I would know if I did or not. Of course he tried to blame the cut in the boot on me too, so him blaming this on me is no surprise.

I told him not to do anything to the car. I'll go pay him for the towing tomorrow and get it towed back to our apartment and fix it myself. I have known this guy since we were about 4 or 5, best friends growing up and this is how I get treated now. He wants everything that has happened to be my fault, so he has no responsibility to cover or warranty the parts he used or the labor he performed.

He'll not work on my car ever again. I've had enough of his runaround crap. :mad:

[mywhite89]

Well, as expected, he says I must have hit something very hard for it to break like that. I told him I hadn't and I think I would know if I did or not. Of course he tried to blame the cut in the boot on me too, so him blaming this on me is no surprise.

I told him not to do anything to the car. I'll go pay him for the towing tomorrow and get it towed back to our apartment and fix it myself. I have known this guy since we were about 4 or 5, best friends growing up and this is how I get treated now. He wants everything that has happened to be my fault, so he has no responsibility to cover or warranty the parts he used or the labor he performed.

He'll not work on my car ever again. I've had enough of his runaround crap. :mad:


Sorry to hear about the car. Good choice, looks like a couple of guys near you have offered to help. If you hit something bad enough to break a ball joint, then you surely would have bent something also. Even with a cracked boot, I am really surprised that it would have gotten bad enough to break the ball joint though. At least if you do it yourself, you will have piece of mind.

[ThunderDave]

He called again and said he had several other mechanics look at it and they all agreed something was hit for it to snap the way it did. I'm sorry, I don't remember hitting anything because I ........uh.....um......didn't!
He says now he'll go ahead and replace them for free, but that would mean I would have him calling me a liar about hitting something and I've got more principals than that, to have someone call me a liar just to get something for free. That's ok, no thanks! He hasn't believed anything I've told him about the car, this club or the info on it or the people on here that give good advice and opinions about car problems. I'd rather pay to have it fixed than get it done for free and lower myself to his level.

[mikeceli]

Your "mechanic" sounds like he has a drug or alcohol adiction. I am NOT kidding.

I think you should consider "dropping a dime" on him. Report him to the State Bureau of Automotive Repairs. It sounds like he caused damage to you car, by not properly torqueing the ball joint stud. If this is true, he also endangered the safety of everyone in and around, the vehicle, by shody repairs.

NOW the guy, incapable of properly tightening a nut, wants you to believe he is some kind of stress anayisys engineer/crash investigator/lie detector!

How many other less knowledgable folks has he cheated or endangered? How many more will he jepordize?

He sounds like a bold-face liar!

[SuperCharged91]

Your "mechanic" sounds like he has a drug or alcohol adiction. I am NOT kidding.

I think you should consider "dropping a dime" on him. Report him to the State Bureau of Automotive Repairs. It sounds like he caused damage to you car, by not properly torqueing the ball joint stud. If this is true, he also endangered the safety of everyone in and around, the vehicle, by shody repairs.

NOW the guy, incapable of properly tightening a nut, wants you to believe he is some kind of stress anayisys engineer/crash investigator/lie detector!

How many other less knowledgable folks has he cheated or endangered? How many more will he jepordize?

He sounds like a bold-face liar!

I agree 100% plus i don't think i would call him a friend anymore.

[the-big-e]

To break a ball joint by hitting something would definitly have done some other type of damage somewhere, either to the suspension or under carrage.....

I just picked up a 94 LX and the nut for the ball joint had came off.....:eek:

The whole wheel and rim ended up 90° to the chassis......:eek:

I jacked the front end up and got the ball joint to go back into its hole, but I didn't have a nut to help keep it there.......

After a very short trip down the road, I found the ball joint nut next to the curb....

It had some sort of lock tite (green) :confused: on the last thread.....

I reinstalled it and was able to tow the bird back to my shop for repairs.....

[ThunderDave]

Well, I think he realized he was partly responsible for the damage since he installed the parts, even if the balljoint was defective. He is installing two new ones and we are switching out the rim, so he is having the tires changed and paying for the towing. So it will end up costing me nothing. I will be inspecting it closely this time before I leave his shop.

He said he had never seen a balljoint sheared off like that one, unless something had been hit. But like Eddie said, there should have been other damage if something had been hit hard enough to break it like that. I think he realized there was no other damage and that I must be telling him the truth.

I should have the car back by Monday afternoon or Tuesday at the latest. I'll get pics of the inside of the rim it damaged and the ball joint if I can. He said the rim should be ok, but just to be safe, we are switching it. Good thing I kept that extra rim Eddie. ;)

[mikeceli]

MAKE SURE SOMEONE CHECKS THE FEMALE "TAPER" FOR DAMAGE! The two "tapers" must be a proper fit, or it will fail again. ANY damage to the taper, is unacceptible. With moderate tightening of the nut, the tapers must "lock" together. With correct torque, the connection will be secure.

[ThunderDave]

Well, since having the control arms replaced again and having the alignment done, there is still a little tapping sound coming from the front right that wasn't there before the ball joint broke. It sounds like the end link making the noise. Is it possible that when the ball joint broke, it dropped down with enough force to mess up the end link on that side? I'm going to try and check it Friday to make sure that's what it is. The tech at Firestone said the back was out of alignment too, as was the front, which I knew already. It drives and rides much better now.

[TbirdSCFan]

If its a cylical tapping that goes with the rolling of the wheel, its probably the brake shield. Not un common and not a big deal. Doesn't affect the braking. To fix it, just take the wheel off and push it on it a bit to get it away from the rotor by about 1/4".

[ThunderDave]

No, this is more heard on bumps and dips.