Could this be done?

[quick35th]

Guys do you think it would be possible to take a complete SC engine, tear it down to the basic short block, put new bearings inside of it, change the head gaskets, then partially assemble the engine untill I can get the SC over to the garage. Then tear down the old SC engine and remove it from the car, install new engine and put all the performance parts off the old engine on it all within a two day time frame?

I am really getting antzie to drive my new 35th around with all the nice weather that we have been having and especially since I have this good engine laying around now the urge is even stronger.

Shane

[Pat]

Doing this by yourself or with help, and why weren't you doing this during the "bad" weather? :p

[quick35th]

I might have some help but most likely most of it will be all by my self.

Shane

[doug93sc]

If you have 2 full days that you can devote to it and have all the parts on hand, you should not have a problem at all.

Think about it, with the one engine on a stand it should not take you more than 3-4 hours (taking your time) to put in new bearings, headgaskets etc.

Probably about 2-3 hours to remove the engine from the car and another 2-3 hours to install the new one.

If it were me I would build the engine and remove the old one in the same day, then leave day 2 to install the new one.

[quick35th]

Hmm, I am having the hardest time trying to find main bearings. I can get the rod bearings but not the mains. Any help with where to check guys?

Shane

[David Neibert]

No I don't think you can do it.

Sounds more like a two day job for two guys who have all the necessary tools and the experince.

David

[doug93sc]

No I don't think you can do it.

Sounds more like a two day job for two guys who have all the necessary tools and the experince.

David

I was under the impression that Shane has pulled a SC motor out at least 3 times....Maybe I am giving him too much credit?:confused:

[CMac89]

Guys do you think it would be possible to take a complete SC engine, tear it down to the basic short block, put new bearings inside of it, change the head gaskets, then partially assemble the engine untill I can get the SC over to the garage. Then tear down the old SC engine and remove it from the car, install new engine and put all the performance parts off the old engine on it all within a two day time frame?

I am really getting antzie to drive my new 35th around with all the nice weather that we have been having and especially since I have this good engine laying around now the urge is even stronger.

Shane

I do this ALL summer long during the racing season. I even do it between rounds, but mostly overnight.

Either i'm just too hardcore, or you can do it as well.:)

[Scott Long]

Shane, I found them listed at autozone for $47.99 a set, but they have to be ordered. Not sure if like Napa or Carquest if you have one near you might stock them.

[Scott Long]

I do this ALL summer long during the racing season. I even do it between rounds, but mostly overnight.

Either i'm just too hardcore, or you can do it as well.:)

You're a little more hardcore than most of us. I could have the engine out in an afternoon probably say 4-5 hours. If I had help, maybe 3.5 hours. I am a little more meticulous though than just ripping it out. I label wires and vac hoses and stuff.

On a carbed engine, I'd rip it out though. Not hard to figure out fuel lines and throttle cables, and plug wires.

[quick35th]

I was under the impression that Shane has pulled a SC motor out at least 3 times....Maybe I am giving him too much credit?:confused:

I have yanked motors before plenty of times. I think that I could do it and I do have all the tools needed. Maybe just a power steering pulley puller and a cutch alignment tool is all i would need.

The crappy thing is the tune will be way off so I wont be able to beat on it right away :rolleyes:

Of and I''ll make sure the motor turns over before it goes in ;)

Shane

[doug93sc]

Of and I''ll make sure the motor turns over before it goes in ;)

Shane

That would be a good thing:D

[seawalkersee]

If you already had the one engine refreshed and ready to roll, with the help of someone who knew what they were doing, it can be done. I would say EASILY be done. But the fact of the matter is, things happen. Caseys stuff is probably clean and easily accessable. Not to mention that the more you remove them bolts, the easier they come out too. I think you are probably looking at a four-five day job than a weekend job. Can it be done? Yep. Could I do it? Provided I could devote time to it, I think I could have the swap done in one and it running the next day before lunch. But the problems you had with the five oh should get you to slow down and be more carefull with what you are working with.

Chris

[scbird1]

Dont put time restictions on yourself and it will all turn out perfect. Try Northernautoparts.com 1-800-831-0884
Super fast shipping and a great price. I paid $29.00 for my mains. Shameless plug for my friends in Iowa

[quick35th]

I dont think that I'll have to big of a problems with doing it. I just have to get it done within the two day time period because those are my days off. I'll be able to spend all day both days on it.

[Supercoupe218]

I dont think that I'll have to big of a problems with doing it. I just have to get it done within the two day time period because those are my days off. I'll be able to spend all day both days on it.


just make sure you have everything you need so your not running back and forth to the parts store...

BTW..i need a favor...PM sent.

[CMac89]

If you already had the one engine refreshed and ready to roll, with the help of someone who knew what they were doing, it can be done. I would say EASILY be done. But the fact of the matter is, things happen. Caseys stuff is probably clean and easily accessable. Not to mention that the more you remove them bolts, the easier they come out too. I think you are probably looking at a four-five day job than a weekend job. Can it be done? Yep. Could I do it? Provided I could devote time to it, I think I could have the swap done in one and it running the next day before lunch. But the problems you had with the five oh should get you to slow down and be more carefull with what you are working with.

Chris
Well, this is true, but not as easy as it may seem. At the track I have to do funky stuff like use the car lift as an engine hoist and all of that. Since heads that I use (in either class) cost me $8,000 from start to finish, I have to pull the heads off and swap the valve train as well. So I'm talking about disassembling the top end and swapping it over to another shortblock.

I pulled the motor out of my T-Bird in two hours. All you have to have are the right tools. It was just as easy as anything else I've ever torn the motor out of. If you have a good Trans-Dapt, then you can pull the motor out with the transmission.

It took me three hours to put the transmission on my other motor and to get it started.

****AIR TOOLS ARE YOUR FRIEND****

[quick35th]

Well I think it can be done. I have done motor mounts on four different SC's and thats almost all the way tore down to do that job. I can see it taking all day tomorrow and maybe part of friday but I'll be very pleased if I can get it all done tomorrow.

Shane

[quick35th]

Right now there is this bet going around the office at Jegs about who will blow up their SC engine first, me or John. Its really cool working at a place with not one but two other SC people there and it sure makes the days go by really fast. I am going to miss leaving Jeg's mail order a lot once I switch over to retail.

Shane

[quick35th]

Well the motor is halfway apart now. Found two transmission bolts broke off in the block so I have that to deal with. Besides having to run around to a million different places for parts we've been making good progress.

Shane

[joshbea6]

The crappy thing is the tune will be way off so I wont be able to beat on it right away :rolleyes:

you SHOULDN'T beat on it right away....even if the tune was right on....

General rule of thumb....500 miles no hard shifting, no hard acceleration....especially on NEW components.

[CMac89]

you SHOULDN'T beat on it right away....even if the tune was right on....

General rule of thumb....500 miles no hard shifting, no hard acceleration....especially on NEW components.

That's just a rumor.

The only crucial part to breaking a motor in is seating the rings. The rate that the rings take to seat in depends on the tension of the rings. All in all, you HAVE to get the cylinder to expand in order for the rings to cause an effective seating procedure. In order to do this you have to go to max safe EGT rates, in which are held at wide open throttle. In order to get a safe EGT, you have to get a tune.

Here's what I did with my car. I drove 50 miles to make sure there weren't any issues with the cooling system, no valvetrain knocking, or missing out. On my way home, I took it to 5000RPM five times. Now, THE ONLY reason I shouldn't have done that was because I didn't have a tune.

Took the car home and did a leak down test. A bit less than 2% with Total Seal rings, which is higher than I normally get. Seeing as how it is a street car motor with higher tension rings, it took a few more days to get it to check within 1% leakdown.

You'll make the most power within the first 500 miles the motor has on it. Rings will start losing seal little by little after that. Only significant through HP though.

Again, it depends on what kind of rings, tension wise, that you have.

[19TbirdSC91]

All thats being changed is the rod bearings and head gaskets. The old bearings that came out were spotless there was not any copper showing at all or anything.

[quick35th]

Well I just got done trying to get the 35th running so I could get it to my mothers place so I can swap the engine out and well...... it wont idle or run unless I keep my foot near full throttle and whenever it reaches 4K RPM it shoots flames :eek: :D

So I am done for tonight and tomorrow I'll tow the car to the garage and finish it up.

Shane.

[19TbirdSC91]

I took nuts and bolts and other various pieces of car motor flying at my legs. not only was it shooting flames it was backfiring massively and creating a big smoke cloud. the cops were pulling as we fled the scene. i think i lost hearing from this. you will be hearing from my lawyer shane dont you worry About that.

[19TbirdSC91]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/imwithstupid016/th_backfire.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/imwithstupid016/?action=view&current=backfire.flv)

there she is shooting flames, its in quicktime format...just some FYI

[quick35th]

I have a feeling that the car wont be done by tonight cause I am having a hard time locating a trailer so that I can get the car to where the motor is sitting.

Shane

[scbird1]

You have a bad leak at your intercooler or tubes.
Unmetered air will cause this every time. A guy in our area had some slight front end dammage to his SC. The bottom intercooler tube was broke right at the bolt down on the PS bracket and let in just enough air to make it run just like yours. Hope this helps.

[quick35th]

You have a bad leak at your intercooler or tubes.
Unmetered air will cause this every time. A guy in our area had some slight front end dammage to his SC. The bottom intercooler tube was broke right at the bolt down on the PS bracket and let in just enough air to make it run just like yours. Hope this helps.

Nope, thats deffinately not my problem. I have low compresson, tons of blow-by which caused the rear intake manifold to blow out. I am not running the stock IC tubes anymore. The motor is toast thats for sure.

Shane

[scbird1]

Now I see why your changing the motor. Hope it goes well for you.

[quick35th]

Well today went ok minus the late start. I'm stuck right now because the engine doesnt want to seperate from the transmission. Its loose as a goose but I cant figure out why it wont seperate. I am hoping that its not going to rain tomorrow because I am going to finish it up tomorrow.

Shane

[seawalkersee]

Is there any seperation? Can you stick a screw driver in the side and pry a tad and then go to the other side? Do you have all of the bolts out? Ifn you have sum rust on the dowls, it can be hard to get apart. In fact, you MAY pull one from the block (or both) before all is said and done.

Chris

[19TbirdSC91]

THere is a good couple of inches between the two right now.

[CMac89]

If you are going to separate the transmission from the motor then you HAVE to take the transmission out before you pull the motor out. If you are trying to pull the motor out of the transmission, instead of vice versa, then it's going to be too hard to get the motor to come forward far enough by controlling it with your hands. You have to pull the transmission off before you try and pull the motor out.

The input shaft is too long to do it that way. The splines on the input shaft go into the clutch disk, then the end of the input shaft goes into the pilot bearing in the back of the crank.

[quick35th]

Well its raining pretty hard, the car is soaked along with everything around it. I cant stand working in the rain so I am going to wait it out a bit. Hopefully I'll be back at i tonight.

Shane

[quick35th]

If you are going to separate the transmission from the motor then you HAVE to take the transmission out before you pull the motor out. If you are trying to pull the motor out of the transmission, instead of vice versa, then it's going to be too hard to get the motor to come forward far enough by controlling it with your hands. You have to pull the transmission off before you try and pull the motor out.

The input shaft is too long to do it that way. The splines on the input shaft go into the clutch disk, then the end of the input shaft goes into the pilot bearing in the back of the crank.

So how does the hydraulic line disconnect from the tranny?

Shane

[CMac89]

So how does the hydraulic line disconnect from the tranny?

Shane

There should be a white collar sleeve right where the clutch line runs to the slave cylinder. It's jammed between the two. Get a couple of small, flat headed screwdrivers and push that white sleeve, as far as you can, into the slave cylinder. It's a PITA, but just keep pushing that sleeve in and yanking on that line until it comes off.

[XR7 Dave]

Actually, now its my turn to dissagree. :p You can pull the motor that way but you are currently hanging up on the input shaft. You'll have to jack the tranny up until it is pressed tight against the body, and then lift the motor until it clears the cross member. There is about 1/8" to work with but it will go, I've done it many times.

[CMac89]

Fair enough.

Shane, why didn't you just pull the motor and the tranny out as a whole?

[quick35th]

Fair enough.

Shane, why didn't you just pull the motor and the tranny out as a whole?

Cause thats more work and I hate messing with old rusty exhaust pieces.

Shane

[quick35th]

How long should it take to port a set of heads moderately (basically just cleaning the casting markings off the runners)? I was thinking about porting the heads and intake manifold but now I've noticed that its supposed to snow on thursday so I am now in a bit of a rush to get the car done and indoors again. We'll see what happens though.

BTW, here are some progress pics. Sorry but the first set of pics were taken with my cell phone camera then the last set of pics were taken in the middle of the night.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/img050.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/img052.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/img054.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0179.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0175.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0176.jpg

Shane

[quick35th]

Well I have not worked on the car the past few days because of the weather and being my sister's 21st b-day. I plan to work on it or even finish the car tomorrow depending on the weather but it looks like it might SNOW :eek: :( so who knows. But anyways here are some pics I took monday night.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0189.jpg
Its so empty under the hood now :D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0190.jpg
Old engine.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0192.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0194.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0195.jpg
New engine. Bearings went in fine, journals were perfect and the old bearings came out looking close to new :D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0196.jpg


Shane

PS, the crank does turn :D

[quick35th]

If the weather does not hold I am thinking about porting the heads. We'll see.

Shane

[quick35th]

Here is some pics of todays work:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0206.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0215.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0216.jpg
New centerforce clutch waiting to be installed

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0218.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0225.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0226.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0227.jpg

Shane

[Sam Woodson]

With the engine out did you find the problem, was it the rings? Where was the oil leak coming from?

Good luck on a new start!

[seawalkersee]

Since its out and you can access them, I would replace the hoses that are there (ya know...the hard to reach ones). A few bux now, can save you many headaches down the road.

Chris

[CMac89]

Just to let you know, you don't need to put thread lubricant on the deck end of the stud. Only where the nut goes.

[19TbirdSC91]

this thing should have been done after all the help i provided that one day...hrmph...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: haha...kidding...keep up the good work.

[quick35th]

Got some more work done today. I'm hoping weather permitted of course that I might be able to get this project finished tomorrow. Here are some pics:

Old motor
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0228.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0229.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0230.jpg

Pic of one of the heads. They are NOS heads from Ford
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0234.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0235.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0240.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0241.jpg

Shane

[David Neibert]

Shane,

Your making another mistake !

The heads should be resurfaced before installing on another motor. That's also a good time to check spring presure and replace the valve seals.

David

[XR7 Dave]

Shane likes to do things his way.

BTW, those are not NOS heads from Ford. Those are remanned heads.

[birds4us]

I agree with David and Dave.

[quick35th]

Shane,

Your making another mistake !

The heads should be resurfaced before installing on another motor. That's also a good time to check spring presure and replace the valve seals.

David

Why do the heads need resurfaced? The old motor didn't blow the head gaskets so I dont see how they can be warpt. According to the information that I got when buying the car the motor was done not long before I got it so I'm not sure either why the springs would be bad.

At any rate this motor is not going to be in the car all to long. Maybe by May or June I am going to go through this all over again but this time install ported heads, bigger valves, behive (sp) springs, and a cam. So why cant I run it as is until then?

Shane

[quick35th]

Well the motor is back in the 35th and the transmission is bolted to the back of it. I'm going to take a break and get some food since I have not ate yet today. afterwords I'm going to go back home and finish it up. I took a bunch of pics so far that i'll post later.

Shane

[Ryan218]

Well the motor is back in the 35th and the transmission is bolted to the back of it. I'm going to take a break and get some food since I have not ate yet today. afterwords I'm going to go back home and finish it up. I took a bunch of pics so far that i'll post later.

Shane


cool.....you pretty much just putting the top end on a new motor to put in the 35th? or did you add any performance mods?

[quick35th]

So I didn't finish the car tonight, it got to cold outside and I started getting tired and frustraited. All that I have left to do is bolt all the assesories back onto the from of the engine, mount the intake manifold and supercharger, then install the radiator and fill it up along with connect all the wiring together but that should be it. I am hoping it will run good out right off the bat but we'll see.

Here are the pics from today:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0245.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0246.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0250.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0251.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0255.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0257.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0264.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0267.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0270.jpg

Shane

[Ryan218]

nice...whos mustang?

[quick35th]

nice...whos mustang?

Its a '95 V6 car that used to belong to my sister, then it blew a HG, she sold it to her current boy friend, I yanked the motor and transmission out of it because he wanted to put a 5.0L in it but then he changed his mind and wanted to put a 460 in it. The car is in limbo right now sorta as now the kneibor owns it and is waiting on me to swap a 5.0L into it from a '91 5.0L XR7 Cougar that he has laying around.

I dont like that car, its been to much work for me and is still :(

Shane

[19TbirdSC91]

Its a '95 V6 car that used to belong to my sister, then it blew a HG, she sold it to her current boy friend, I yanked the motor and transmission out of it because he wanted to put a 5.0L in it but then he changed his mind and wanted to put a 460 in it. The car is in limbo right now sorta as now the kneibor owns it and is waiting on me to swap a 5.0L into it from a '91 5.0L XR7 Cougar that he has laying around.

I dont like that car, its been to much work for me and is still :(

Shane


I thought your NEIGHBOR (you spelled it hideously wrong) was just going to put another 3.8L in it, cuz he doesn't trust christian with it...and i can't wait to get a ride in the 35th when you get her goin...call me as soon as its ready, lol...

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Quick question to Dave D...How can you tell they are remanned heads...Freeeze out plugs? Just curious if there is some sort of way of telling.

I do disagree about needing to resurface the heads though. Thast one thing I never do unless i absolutely have too

[David Neibert]

Shane,

Did you use copper spray on the gaskets or install them dry ? I'm also curious about a couple other things. Why didn't you install the intake manifold while the motor was still on the stand ? What did you torque the heads down to ? Did you put some thread sealer on the block end of the short studs ?

David

[quick35th]

Shane,

Did you use copper spray on the gaskets or install them dry ? I'm also curious about a couple other things. Why didn't you install the intake manifold while the motor was still on the stand ? What did you torque the heads down to ? Did you put some thread sealer on the block end of the short studs ?

David

David,

I did not use a copper spray on the HGs, I didn't install the intake manifold because I used it mounting bolts to move the engine around rather then using an exhaust manifold bolt. I torqued the heads down to 30lbs, then 50lbs, then finally 70lbs and yes I did use thread sealer on ALL of the studs as well as molly lube on the tops of every stud. Any more brain busters :p

Shane

[quick35th]

Ok so the engine is built but since it was like 4am last night when I finished it I did not start it. I did notice though that after adding engine oil to it my passenger side valve cover has sprung a leak :( I'll have to correct that problem later.

Shane

[David Neibert]

Ok so the engine is built but since it was like 4am last night when I finished it I did not start it. I did notice though that after adding engine oil to it my passenger side valve cover has sprung a leak :( I'll have to correct that problem later.

Shane

Haven't even started the motor and it's already leaking :rolleyes: Did you install those gaskets dry too ?

David

[19TbirdSC91]

I walked up to shanes house today, and the first thing i heard was the 35th running...horribly...it has a massive exhause leak somewhere...there was a massive smoke show, it was funny, but it does run...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/imwithstupid016/35thSmokeShow.jpg

[Ryan218]

Its a '95 V6 car that used to belong to my sister, then it blew a HG, she sold it to her current boy friend, I yanked the motor and transmission out of it because he wanted to put a 5.0L in it but then he changed his mind and wanted to put a 460 in it. The car is in limbo right now sorta as now the kneibor owns it and is waiting on me to swap a 5.0L into it from a '91 5.0L XR7 Cougar that he has laying around.

I dont like that car, its been to much work for me and is still :(

Shane

mustangs are easier to work on then a SC imo.... whats been so difficult about it?

so whats up the the engine not running right in the 35th?

[19TbirdSC91]

Hey Ryan, did you get your car dyno'd or something? (the SC)

[quick35th]

Yeah so today was not very good. As Sean said I've got an exhaust leak that originally sounded like a lifter tap, both valve covers are leaking pretty bad, and the tune is way off. The engine was shaking back and forth when I first started it but after I had shut it off and refired it a few times is smoothed out a lot. I think the tuner is playing games with the computers mind and is making the engine run rough. I need to figure out my clutch problem reallt bad so I can start driving my SC.

Shane

[19TbirdSC91]

yeah that was some clutch problem

[Sam Woodson]

Sounds like it's back to the way it was when you bought it? :-)

[quick35th]

While I am battling my clutch issue and a miss I decided that it would be a good idea to get rid of the silicone 90 degree bends that connect the intercooler to the ic tubes because they suck in under vacume. Well now I have a new problem, HOOD CLEARANCE :( The upper tube is sticking up probably 2 inches higher then it was before. I tried my cobra r hood that I have lying around and it still does not clear the tubes all the way. I need more front clearance or find a different way to mount the intercooler. Here are some pics:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0332.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0331.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0333.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0334.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0328.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/quick35th/100_0326.jpg

Shane

[David Neibert]

Shane,

You can purchase the good silicone 90 degree elbows that won't collapse under vacuum and some t-bolt clamps at this place.

http://racepartssolutions.com/

David

[seawalkersee]

It looks like you have pleanty of room to drop the IC down. Just lower it a few inches and go.

Chris

[quick35th]

It looks like you have pleanty of room to drop the IC down. Just lower it a few inches and go.

Chris

The IC is already sitting on the frame.

Shane

[91supacoop]

wow that's rough dude, really blows; i guess now you know why the previous owner was using the silicone connectors. There really doesn't seem to be much to do, unless you change thw whole orientation of the IC. Best bet would be to try the silicone connectors David linked to.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

maybe you can cut the couplers a bit?