Back with a 93 5.0 and I need info

[Superloop]

Hey everybody I know alot of you don't know who I am, but I used to own an 89 sc that got stolen:( anyway when i got the car back I tried to save her, but it was a nightmare so I let her go and I bought a 93 tbird 5.0.
The motor doesn't run(bad motor) so I went and bought a wrecked 89 mustang and pulled the motor, so my question is: is the mustang's 5.0 a direct fit in my tbird or what do I need to do to intall it? I'm gonna keep pretty much stock, except for I want to delete the a/c and air pump, what do I have to do to acomplish this? and one last question, where can I get headers to fit the bird?
I know I can get more info at tccoa, but the only web access I have is at work and that site is blocked. Thanks for any help:) I miss driving a tbird; I haven,t driven one since my 89 sc:o
Thanks!!!

[seawalkersee]

Direct fit? Sorta...the GT has a different firing order, so if you pull the wires, you will need to reinstall them with the 13726548 firing order. Are you going to swap over the intakes or what? As far as exhaust goes, KOOKS makes headers for that. I dont know ANYONE who makes headers for them other than that.

Chris

[x182dan]

Direct fit? Sorta...the GT has a different firing order, so if you pull the wires, you will need to reinstall them with the 13726548 firing order. Are you going to swap over the intakes or what? As far as exhaust goes, KOOKS makes headers for that. I dont know ANYONE who makes headers for them other than that.

Chris

Kooks doesn't make headers for the 5.0 bird only 3.8

[Superloop]

well, according to my shop manuals both the 93 bird and 89 mustang have the same firing order which is what you posted: 13726548.
Yes, I was planning on swaping only the upper intake from the bird to the mustang motor, ford says the lower is the same part #. So, who makes headers for this car? I can't find anybody that knows. Thanks for replying:D
How about the a/c delete and air pump delete?
I'll post pics of the motor; I rebuild it because I wasn't sure if it ran since the mustang was all tore up. It looks nice:D Ford red

[jk89cat]

i am glad you found that info, i was just going to say that. headers, mac and jba are the only companys that i know are still making the headers for the 5.0 tbird cougar. supercoupe performance sells them, as well. but i think the ones they sell are macs . any mustang air pump delete will work ,dont forget to get plugs for the heads . the ac part, you can order thru ford motorsport . justin

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

All HO 5.0's have the 351 firing order.

Basically you need to pulle everything off your Tbird motor and put on stang motor.

Oil pan and pickup
Upper intake, TB
timing chain cover & waterpump

All pulleys and accesories

basically just use the stang longblock

I would do the head gaskets and a timing chain while its all apart though. Lower intake is different in that the ACT sensor is in teh lower intake in the stang and in the airbox I believe in the Tbird...No big deal

Its very straightfoward

[x182dan]

All HO 5.0's have the 351 firing order.

Basically you need to pulle everything off your Tbird motor and put on stang motor.

Oil pan and pickup
Upper intake, TB
timing chain cover & waterpump

All pulleys and accesories

basically just use the stang longblock

I would do the head gaskets and a timing chain while its all apart though. Lower intake is different in that the ACT sensor is in teh lower intake in the stang and in the airbox I believe in the Tbird...No big deal

Its very straightfoward

if he has a complete mustang as a parts car why wouldn't he be able to use the wiring and everything from the 93 mustang and make it work with the tbird? Swap everything over to 93 mustang

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

he already has a 5.0 no reason to wiring wise


intake and pulley wise ect was for clearence issues

[David Neibert]

How about the a/c delete and air pump delete?[/

They can both be removed and just revise the belt routing...that's what I did on my 93. You don't need to mess with a delete kit.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/mn12xr7/beltsizes.jpg


David

[birds4us]

I thought the T-bird already had factory headers and better heads than the GT did?

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Same heads and similiar headers I believe..Upper intake is more restrictive however

[Superloop]

Thanks everybody for the help.:D Hey david, what belt part # did you use?
As for the long block, I rebuild it and I reused everything from the mustang except the front brackets and upper intake; So do I need to take it all apart and use the tbirds lower intake and oil pan and front timing cover?

[seawalkersee]

I was unaware that the T-bird was a H.O. The regular firing order is 13726548. As far as the headers go, I thought there was a GP on TCCoA for the Kooks. Guess I was wrong. Ask a guy with a screen name of MadMartigan or GuitarMaistro (or close to that) I am pretty sure they both have 3/4 lengths or long tubes. One of them had to beat the piss out of his floor pan though, so I would definately check with them so you dont run into the same problem. Also, 392 bird could give you the ins and outs of running the stang headers and the kit to relocate your steering shaft. Oh...and what Damon said about the oil system too.

As for the wiring, is your car SD? If it is, and you plan on running any sort of a cam, you will want to use the stang wiring too. Its MA and easier to work with (after the hard wiring part is done).

Chris

[Superloop]

Yeah, I think all birds with a 5.0 H.0 are maf. Never mind on the belt # I see them now:D I didn't pay attention. Thanks for the help David:) I know I read somewhere about a company that makes headers for a 93 tbird 5.0, but I can't find it. So, can I use the mustangs timing cover, lower intake and oil pan on my bird? The oil pans look the same. The lower intake looks that same also.
Now the timing cover might be different because a water pump for a 93 bird is different than an 89 mustang. Does anybody know about these 3 parts?
Thanks for all the info:)

[darkstar_one]

timing cover is the same as the 94-95 stang 5.0's and the explorer 5.0s, like the 95-98 version 5.0's on the explorers

use a 94-95 stang 5.0 water pump and delete the clutch fan and put on an electric fan and get some HP!

[David Neibert]

Thanks everybody for the help.:D Hey david, what belt part # did you use?
As for the long block, I rebuild it and I reused everything from the mustang except the front brackets and upper intake; So do I need to take it all apart and use the tbirds lower intake and oil pan and front timing cover?

I used the last one shown until having to switch to a 94/95 cobra 5.0 crank pulley so the MSD trigger wheel would fit, then I switched to a slightly shorter belt.

David

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Yes you need to use your Tbird 5.9 timing chain waterpump and oil pan and pickup...Lower intake you can use

[darkstar_one]

Yes you need to use your Tbird 5.9 timing chain waterpump and oil pan and pickup...Lower intake you can use

5.9 tming ey... sounds liike a special edition model... must be that one that ford never realiesed

[David Neibert]

Nevermind.........

[darkstar_one]

david neibert fakken rullesss!!! gives a standing ovation for david! GO DAVID... if you cant do it no one can!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO!!!! DAVID!!!! DAVIDD!!!!

[David Neibert]

Nevermind.....

[darkstar_one]

dude its not! its the booze talking! your like one of my favorite peers... i actually want to meet you and pick your brain,... dont butt out dudde,... sorry but its seriously the booze talkiing! dude! you dont know how much ~~~~ i learn from you! i be looking up your threads to get advice! come on dude! its the booze! i am like starting to get messed up... YOUR MY IDOL man... WOOOO DAVID!!!!!!!

[darkstar_one]

all the 5.0 things and 3.8 sc things ive learned are fromd david, this guy is awesome... and no i am not joking... this guy is seruously help ful.. sorry dude but it was the booze talking and i didnt mean for you to get upset... but i look upto you man.. i be diggin up old threads from you to get all the adcive my brain can handle.

[darkstar_one]

ohh eyah, if u dont believe me i am drunk, talk to omar, mr PREDITR, he will vouch for me! DAVID! sorry dude... !!!!

[David Neibert]

No problem...sorry I didn't see that you already mentioned the timing cover a few post earlier.

David

[jk89cat]

i cant beleive the amount of wrong info in this thread. 1st off , dont use fox parts they dont fit , nor will the harnesses swap, the only thing different on a 5.0 mn12 in the intake is the upper, its just a tad shorter than a fox. its still a 5.0 h.o , our cars engines are almost identical to a 94-95 5.0 stang. our cars use a short timing chain cover for clearnace issues hensce the different cover and brackets , you use fox stuff it will interfere with the fan /radiator. why bypass the ac and smog pump, the idlers do a much better job and if you are inthe middle of nowwhere and you lose a belt you can still get one. all 91-93 5.0 tbird cougar had the 5.0 ho period, not the std output pos. and use the 351 firing order. the long block is the same between a stang and a bird. same heads and cam, randy(mad martigann) is usign mac long tubes and yes he beat the living hell out of his floor to make it work, 392 bird is usign a 351 based block, doesnt know whos headers he even has , and had to slice and dice the cross member to make that 351 block and pan fit.

[x182dan]

and when you go to buy replacement parts more times than not 94-95 stang parts will swap perfectly. IE: underdrive pulleys, waterpump, alternator, etc....

[jk89cat]

true but you must be careful with the waterpump and underdrives if you are not running a an electric fan as will not fit, the tbird waterpump pully has a larger hole for the fan clutch threads, where as the 94-95 does not have that

[darkstar_one]

hey david, heres proof i was drunk last night..

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/supercharged_V6/Hangover.jpg

[seawalkersee]

hey david, heres proof i was drunk last night..

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/supercharged_V6/Hangover.jpg

Wow...that Keg sure has an ugly girlfriend...

And JKCAT, its not misinformation like you are leading it to believe. That is why I said that I did not know the birds were HO. And why I told him to check with those guys on that site. Like I said, check with the guys who have done the mod. And also, like I said, the mod 392 bird made was to clear the headers... no matter what they are from.

Chris

[Superloop]

Ok, how do I post pics that are too big in size? mine are like1.5mb or something like that. I want to show you guys what I've got ,that way ya'll can tell me if it'll work. I can't explain it better than pics:D

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

of course I meant 5.0>>>>>dam typos.

as had been mentioned you should use all your tbird stuff.

Basically everything that bolts up to the 5.0 longblock should be tbird specific for clearence>>>

of course being you didnt have a 94-95 stang engine to start dont even think about that as its moot

The tbird lower intake is only different in that it doesnt have the act sensor as its in the airbox..So it will work just plug the hole

again as had been mentioned use the tbird upper

Water pump....Tbird

Showing pictures isnt going to help as its as simple as just using the tbird stuff.

Good luck man and dont make it harder then it needs to be

[Superloop]

I guess I'll find out what fits this saturday when I take the old motor out;)
As for the pics, I just wanna show you guys the engine; see what you think about my first 5.0 overhaul:D I wanna show off:p I guess I'll reuse the stock exhaust manifolds, since it'll just be a weekend driver, not a hot rod.
Thanks for the help!!
I'll let you know what really fits.

[Superloop]

One quick question:D How much hp and torque do you guys think my bird will have after I'm done swaping engines?
Here's the specs:
stock long block rebuild
scp headers with true duals
no air pump
no a/c compressor
electric fan
k&n cold intake
I want it to feel close to my old stock 89 sc
what you think?
Thanks!!!

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

If its running well you may see 220rwhp or somewhere there abouts..Probably about on par performance wise with a supercoupe. I havnt had teh unfortunate experience in working with a tbird 5.0 computer however I hear they are not that user freindly to mods without a tune..Unlike the older fox stang EEC's..If you want any advice as to getting that 5.0 running good hit me up at any time

Damon

[seawalkersee]

Less power/acceleration than the SC. Heavier nose than the SC. Other than that, I dont know.

Chris

[David Neibert]

One quick question:D How much hp and torque do you guys think my bird will have after I'm done swaping engines?
Here's the specs:
stock long block rebuild
scp headers with true duals
no air pump
no a/c compressor
electric fan
k&n cold intake
I want it to feel close to my old stock 89 sc
what you think?
Thanks!!!

I think it's going to feel weaker than a stock 3.8 SC motor would.

If converting to an electric fan, you really need a better alternator. Stock 5.0 t-bird alt is only around 70 amps...you need something closer to 130 amps to handle the fan at start up. The mrk8 fan I installed pulls something like 75-80 amps at start up, so I upgraded to an aftermarket 3G alternator (requires special bracket or 95/95 mustang alt mounting bracket) intended for use on a 94/95 mustang 5.0.

David

[jk89cat]

If its running well you may see 220rwhp or somewhere there abouts..Probably about on par performance wise with a supercoupe. I havnt had teh unfortunate experience in working with a tbird 5.0 computer however I hear they are not that user freindly to mods without a tune..Unlike the older fox stang EEC's..If you want any advice as to getting that 5.0 running good hit me up at any time

Damon

mine has had no issues with no tune, ill let you know how she reacts to the 24lb injectors and 80 mm pro m maf after the weekend

[Scott Long]

with 4.10 gears, shift kit (recommend lentech valve body) and a stall it might be close if not a hair quicker than a stock SC. With a stock convertor and gears it will be slower because of less low end torque. From a roll it might pull good.

[Superloop]

Ok, even if it is slower than the sc, it wouldn't be really slow, would it? I just want something reliable with some power that not everybody can beat:D
And, how much slower than the sc would it be? because if it is way slower than the sc, I might sell it and buy another sc:D

[Superloop]

Isn't this motor not rated at 225 hp and 305 ft torque? compared to an sc at 210 hp and 315 ft torque? How could it be that much slower? Is it that the sc produces the torque at lower rpm, or what? somebody explain:)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Mr Loop.

I will still stand behind my theory of your car being on par performance wise with an SC. Also weight wise they may be equal being an SC has alot of extra weight floating upfront.

You may feel less low end power but should make up for that with CONSISTENCY and better top end (and more RPM to play with).

4.10 gears will definitely be the ticket

With a well tuned 5.0 with exhaust I was able to muster consistent 14.5's with an auto, 3.27's and a sim weight car...But I was using the earlier EEC 9al computer.

Like I said once you get it running if you want to know what to buy.... Let me know(2nd offer)

[Superloop]

Ok. Thank you!!!!:) Mr. Damon:D

[David Neibert]

The 5.0 will sound alot better.

David

[Superloop]

I think I'll just have to get it done and drive it to see if I like it:D
can somebody help me on posting this pics I have( I have them on a picture cd) I want everybodys opinion on my rebuild:) see what you think.
I tried posting, but I think they're too big:rolleyes:
Thank you!!

[3.8]

Nevrmind... wrong info.

[x182dan]

ok theres some info thats a little off here. You can use a 9495 stang waterpump the only differnce is the pulley and I think you can swap your tbird pulley on there. I am running underdrive pulleys for a 9495 stang and everything fits fine. I am also using a stang timing chain. I used the tbird oil pickup and oil pan. Most if not all parts of the motor you can use 9495 parts. Powersteering pumps are mostly all the same in the whole ford family so no problems there even and sc one should work. I've deleted the smog pump and ac with using just a shorter belt. I'm using 9495 tensioners and idlers also. You should use tbird intake manifold, exhaust manifolds. You will also need tbird throtlle linkage and plate. The tbird throttle body is the same as an sc so if you want the stock sc one should be bigger and will swap over fine. If you need any more info let me know

[Scott Long]

Now you make me want to put a 347 Stroker in my spare SC...

I originally wanted to do a big block 514 stroker.

[Superloop]

As some of you know, I was planning on swaping motors last saturday, but family emergency came up and didn't get to it. Anyway, the motor in the car doesn't run well, smokes, misses, etc.. what I didn't notice until now is that the firing order it has is for a regular 5.0 not an h.o, so I tried the h.o firing and it wouldn't even start:confused: I removed # 1 plug to make sure I had it on tdc, and the plug it has is a 765 autolite, Doesn't this motor take autolite 25? I know my mustang motor does. does a 93 tbird use different heads? I tried installing a 25 plug, but the threads are way smaller on the head. Any ideas???:)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

The motor could have been swapped out at some point with a non HO motor,,,,Which uses different spark plugs....And of course has a different firing order...


however if that was done....Your injector firing would also have to be swapped....Perhaps that is why it runs so bad....Non HO motor installed....non Ho firing order


HO injector firing....

Yup that would make it run pretty darn poorly

[Superloop]

So, if the car does have a non h.o motor, I guess I could leave the non h.o firing and swap #3 injector wiring to #5 and #4 to #7( make the connector longer to reach the other side) Right? If that's possible, I'll do that toginght and see if it runs better, because the motor has 120 psi compression in all 8 cylinders, not great, but it should run ok:D That way I can drive it till I swap the motor:D

[seawalkersee]

OR....swap the cam. You can get a better cam (and heads) and leave the rest alone.

Chris

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

yes try swapping the injector plugs..Wouldnt that be something if that was what it was all along.

Plugs should be for an 86 mustang gt 5.0 if non HO

[Superloop]

:D Well, after work yesterday i went home, I swaped the injector wiring. Got it done in about 20 minutes, that includes removing the upper intake. Not very good wiring job, though:rolleyes: I was so excited to see if it ran:D
And, yes it runs good:eek: took about 10-15 minutes for the computer to learn the idle, and about 45 minute drive to run smooth. I couldn't stop driving it:D I missed driving a tbird. I don't like the aod trans:rolleyes: even though it shifts fine, it has to go. what's out there(manual) that I could drop behind the 5.0, that will fit in a tbird? The motor has way less power than what I expected:eek: I think my 84 turbocoupe feels about the same, power wise. I would like to believe that the h.o I've got should make more power, right? Since before it wouldn't idle, I didn't notice other problems with it, like:
the distributor squeaks, I can feel it on the cap, is there a bushing or something that might be bad? front rotors warped badly, inner and outer tie rod ends loose, both front upper control arm ball joints loose, etc...:rolleyes:also the fuel pump is LOUD!!. I guess I have more work to do after I swap the motor. I don't know where this non h.o came out of, the valve covers look like the ones on the trucks, anyway, i know is not an h.o so I would expect more from an h.o (power) correct? If not, then I won't like it:mad: It doesn't feel even close to what my 89 sc felt like, Like I said before I think it feels about the same, if not a bit quicker than my stock 84 turbo coupe. Thanks for any inputs:cool:

[Superloop]

Can somebody tell me any size of the injectors by the color? Does anybody have the info?

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

The injectors need to be orange...If they are grey he used teh non ho injectors and they NEED to be changed

Also teh HO motor will make substantially more power

[Superloop]

HELP!!! the timing cover of my 93 bird wont fit the 89 mustang 5.o because it hits some kind of thing(slinger?) in front of cam gear, can I take this thing off?
Please tell me asap I've 3 hours to drop the motor :D

[Superloop]

Ok, the book calls it a one piece eccentric, can I remove it and just install the bolt????

[Superloop]

Somebody!!!!:( Please!!! I know somebody knows:D

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

You dont need it...Its for a mechanical fuel pump..

[yardbird]

Just a thought or 2--

If the motor is out of an 86 HO or Mark LSC it will be a Multi-port FI. Dont know (no time to look up now) if its seq or batch. It will also have the infamous E6** heads, on the HO motors that year. 87 dropped the E6** as HO heads but were used in the plain vanilla line (crown vic, marquis etc.). Also dont know about any firing order difference between the HO and the others. So, it could be a 86 FI HO or a plain FI after that. If it is an 86 HO motor, the tq is supposedly slightly more (because of the "swirl" heads) and on the heavy bird, should feel about as good as a later model HO.

This is out of the Ford "Mustang 5.0" tech ref. Dont think I've misquoted-----much :)

[Superloop]

Well, I removed the eccentric thing:D Why would the 89 mustang have that eccentric?Oh well is out:D Got the motor in saturday; didn't finish everything though:rolleyes: I lack fuel rail, top intake,and all the brackets and accesories. the problem I've ecounter now is that the injectors wouldn't come out the intake and when finally did, the lower portion(plastic tip) broke off , everyone of them:rolleyes: Is there a repair kit? Could I use the injectors out of the sc? I don't have the money right now to buy new ones. Thanks for the help!!!

[seawalkersee]

No repair kit and #30s are too big for a stock five OH. SURELY someone has a set lying around on one of the forums you visit...As far as the heads go, you can get a set of GT40s already reworked for around $300bux. I have a set atop my 5.8 which pushes 33s and has 3.30 gears. The carb is giving me fits so it wont run very well, but every now and again it just takes off like a raped friggin ape. There is some mild porting that I have done to them, a .498 cam, 1.7 RRs and probe flat tops. Nothing super special, but I promise you...that engine in a thunderpelican would be killer for a street car. Even better with a 150 shot or so....Oh....back to my point, scam some injectors from one of the moostang guys and go from there. Save up a few bux and stick a set of heads or a cam on it. Eventually, you will be into it for more than its worth....just like the rest of us...

Chris

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I may have some 19lb injectors I need to look.....What color injectors did you have..Orange or gray??

I mentioned 86 mustang heads because the heads on the 86 mustang are what the non HO motors use 87 and up. It was merely for a reference to get plugs.

FYI all of the tbird and stang and mark VII 5.0 engines be it HO or not 1986 and up used sequential fuel injection. 1985 used a 4 bbl carb unless it was an auto in which it used low pressure TBI.

Regardless....Non HO firing order.....HO plugs dont fit...Non HO motor...an use 86 Mustant GT plugs as they use those swirl combustion chamber heads. Which are rather crappy:O)

[Superloop]

I have orange injectors part #F1ZE-C2A DENSO.
I plan on keeping it fairly stock, so head swap not gonna happen(for now):D
I don't visit any other car sites, so I don't know anybody that would have injectors on the net. I guess I could try ebay, but I would probably end up with something else than what i bought:rolleyes: you know how that goes.
changing subject a bit, Next time I remove the motor for any reason, that tranny is coming out:mad: I was so fustrated when trying to dropped the motor and it wouldn't line up with the trans:mad: and the converter!!! what a pain:D

[jk89cat]

yes you can get repalcement caps, go to pep boys and ask for an injector seal kit for a xx 5.0 also napa has a listing for them too .been down this road a few times, superloop you need to check us over on tccoa , there a few of us 5.0 guys there .

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

ok so apparently they just swapped longblocks on ya.....So your still changing motors even though it runs ok now?

[Superloop]

:) back again!! for some reason this website was blocked for a while:rolleyes: Anyway, I'm done swaping motor; runs good, but i think an sc would beat me pretty easy from a stop. I'm happy with it though:D
One quick question, Do I need the oil level sensor, or could I just remove it and block that hole with some bolt? I don't even have it connected(can't find the connector) The reason why I'm asking is because it leaks. Another question, what's the benefit of having a 180 tstat? Or is it better to have an oem?
Thanks!:)

[x182dan]

:) back again!! for some reason this website was blocked for a while:rolleyes: Anyway, I'm done swaping motor; runs good, but i think an sc would beat me pretty easy from a stop. I'm happy with it though:D
One quick question, Do I need the oil level sensor, or could I just remove it and block that hole with some bolt? I don't even have it connected(can't find the connector) The reason why I'm asking is because it leaks. Another question, what's the benefit of having a 180 tstat? Or is it better to have an oem?
Thanks!:)

oil level sensor? No it shouldnt leak atleast mine doesn't. Your talking about the sensor that goes into the oil pan right?