Paul's Fugged Up Blower thread

Car2n

Registered User
So's I don't thread crap in the Dyno thread with my blower issues, I'll start a new thread.
I've had a few hours of thinking time now and used our friendly sccoa search button to see just what may be up with my blower and the noises it makes.
The knocking sound it's had for the past short while sounds like it may be the coupler going bad. The growling sound that just started sounds exactly like one would expect bad bearings to sound like. Very much like the sound you hear from bad wheel bearings.
The fluid is low (no leakage) and is black as coal. The last time I had the plenum on the rear of the blower off, I noticed a lot of oily residue on the exposed ends of the rotors. After seeing the fluid today, it looks like the same fluid I noticed on the rotor ends and inside the case when I had the plenum off. (It's not blow-by oil as I have a pcv filter).
1) I'll try replacing the fluid to see if there is any change in the noise.
2) I'll contact Magnum Powers first thing Monday to see what he thinks and what can be done by him or myself keeping the dyno date in mind.

The blower has about 1000 k on it at most.
Would the fluid be black?
Would a bad coupler or bearings break apart and damage anything (engine)?
I've never had the front end of a M90 open so I don't know what any of these parts look like.
If I was able to get rebuild/replacement parts overnighted, could I or whit help from someone that's been there/done that get the blower back into operation before friday?
 
Paul,

If you're seeing supercharger oil inside the blower on the rotors, then the seals in the rotor pack are leaking. They're supposed to keep the fluid in the snout of the blower and not let it bleed past into the blower itself.

I know some of us have looked at what it might take to replace those seals, but basically you have to break away material that was crimped over the bearings and seals to drive them out, unless the blower was previously rebuilt by MP and they modified this setup to include snap-ring retainers and different bearings and seals.

If the issue was the snout (bearings and/or seals), or the needle bearings in the rear of the case, I know we could get you back up and running quickly. However, if it's the bearings and/or seals in the rotor-pack that have failed then I think it's going to need to go back to MP.

Perhaps Steve N. knows where/how you can get this done faster?!

Cheers,

Sean
 
On a bright note,,,, the car was running like crap because Steeda never got a decent tune into it before I pulled the car out of their shop. It would completely cut out and die at 3 grand. I got a tune file from VMP Tuning in Floridia. He does alot of V6 Mustang tunes and has done a few for guys like myself that have put the M90 into their stangs.
I loaded the file into the car today and it runs really good. Pulls like a mofo.
2 thumbs up to VMP :)
 
I'm going to say it's the coupler same sound as I had and bill when the spring load coupler goes and starts to rub the gears.

Sean no need for snap rings there just do what ESM does to kept them in.:D
 
SeanMatteson said:
If you're seeing supercharger oil inside the blower on the rotors, then the seals in the rotor pack are leaking. They're supposed to keep the fluid in the snout of the blower and not let it bleed past into the blower itself.
> Well that sure looks like the case here.

unless the blower was previously rebuilt by MP ,,
> It the MPIII

if it's the bearings and/or seals in the rotor-pack,,,
> I'm a little stuck on the terminology. The rotor pack would be the front end of the blower between the snout and the case itself? Is this where the coupler is?
 
SeanMatteson said:
If you're seeing supercharger oil inside the blower on the rotors, then the seals in the rotor pack are leaking. They're supposed to keep the fluid in the snout of the blower and not let it bleed past into the blower itself.
> Well that sure looks like the case here.

unless the blower was previously rebuilt by MP ,,
> It the MPIII

if it's the bearings and/or seals in the rotor-pack,,,
> I'm a little stuck on the terminology. The rotor pack would be the front end of the blower between the snout and the case itself? Is this where the coupler is?

Actually, the coupler is situated between the input shaft on the snout, and the one gear in the rotor-pack. It's these two things that it 'couples' together providing drive to the rotor-pack. And, yes, the rotor-pack is how I refer to the center plate of the blower, which has the rotors mounted on one side, and the gears that drive the rotors mounted on the other. Between these parts are a set of bearings, and seals.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Sean
 
I topped up the fluid. It only took half a bottle. No change in the noise level.
The thing sounds real bad. It sounds like it's ready to disinigrate. Not a marble sound,, more like rocks. It sounds like it more than a bearing or coupler problem. I'm going to pull the blower off later today and break it down.

Does anyone have a blower and inlet plenum I can borrow for the dyno tune?????????
 
I took the blower off and broke it apart.
The coupler looks fine.
If I rotate the pulley by hand I can feel the coupler working and it seems normal to me. The rotor on the drivers side has some slop to it and actually touches/grinds against the passenger side rotor at the back end.
The drivers side rotor is grinding against the case back. If I had to guess what the problem is, I'd have to say it's the bearing at the back case on the drivers side rotor but I really don't know because of the fluid in the case the problem may be at the front end of the rotor..
There is a black residue of supercharger fluid present inside the case. (you'll see plenty of fluid in the pics but I got it all over the place when I removed the snout)
If you follow this link http://www.bromell.com/blower.htm you will see 4 pictures. 2 are the back end of the drivers side rotor and 2 are inside the case at the same location. REALLY LARGE PICTURES. DIALUP BEST NOT EVEN TRY!!!!!
 
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Damn that sucks.....

Have you called MP?

Yes, Charles believes the blower is scrap because of the rear bearings and the stock (MPIII) case aluminum. He is willing to take care of me and send out a MPX case which I'd have to assemble here. The MPIII is no longer supported and he cannot rebuild them. Time is the factor here. If he were to send out a new MPX case, it would not be polished. I want my case to be polished and that means a couple weeks wait time. I want to let Charles know of my decision by beddy-bye time tonight.
Ideally, I'd like to wait and have MP send out a polished case and borrow a supercharger for the dyno tuning. I'd need to pick up a blower by Wednesday night and could return it on Sunday.
 
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Why did you have such a thick layer of sealant around the top? The top and blower are supposed to be sealed together with anerobic sealer which is extremely thin and actually forms a bond to the case that allows the top to reinforce the case. I've seen where people try to install a top that is not 100% true and it distorts the case causing the rotors to contact the case and/or each other.

Don't know if that had anything to do with this but I know that can be a big issue. What top were you using?
 
Why did you have such a thick layer of sealant around the top? The top and blower are supposed to be sealed together with anerobic sealer which is extremely thin and actually forms a bond to the case that allows the top to reinforce the case. I've seen where people try to install a top that is not 100% true and it distorts the case causing the rotors to contact the case and/or each other.

Don't know if that had anything to do with this but I know that can be a big issue. What top were you using?

Makes sence with the top reinforcing the case. It has a MP raised top.
Yeah, the sealant was on there kinda thick. It's RTV. It was a bead about 1/8" and let to sit overnight to cure up before bolting the cap down. I've seen pictures of guys tops and RTV oozing out the edges. I thought I was getting a good seal.
 
Paul,

Assuming the rear case bearings are the same as stock, I may have a couple of spare brand new bearings that I could sell you. This may eliminate the slop in the rotors, but I'm not sure what damage may have already been done to the rotors and/or the case. I'll have to dig up my receipt to know what a reasonable price to charge would be.

...I'll try to post up here again later tonight.

Regards,

Sean
 
Looking at those pictures made me feel bad for you. It made a lot of metal while it was eating itself. I would recomend that you inspect downstream of the blower to find out where the rest of your rotors ended up. My recommendation would be to not try to rush for the tune day but make sure your engine or your intercooler haven't swallowed a bunch of metal flakes.
Just my two cents but better to be safe than risk bigger damage.
Alan
 
If it were me, Paul, i'd say screw the p'n'p and just get something else in there.

I'm more concerned, along with Alan, about where those bits of metal are now.

Trust me, Paul, if ANYONE here can talk about blowing up ~~~~ it's me and after ALL of the BS you've been through (and I can talk here, too) ..... do I need to say more? Okay .....

If I could spend my $15K again i'd have a very, VERY different car after learning from mistakes.


p.s. - i'm sorry to hear about all the BS you're going through, really. Been there, done that, not a fun trip. Don't know if sympathy means anything here, but i'm pullin' for ya'. ;)
 
I don't think metal shavings are a real concern. The pictures may look bad but it's more of a "wear" rather than a "gouge". The rotor edges look fine. What makes me wonder is how you would go about finding any stray metals downstream. The only place that I can think of looking is where the air exits the front mount IC.
If I don't find a lender blower, I'm strapping this thing back on for the dyno runs. I'll get it fixed up afterwards when time isn't an issue.
 
If I don't find a lender blower, I'm strapping this thing back on for the dyno runs. I'll get it fixed up afterwards when time isn't an issue.

I'd gladly offer you my blower, but i'm not sure it's in any condition to be used the way it is. Sorry, really wish I could help, really I do. :eek:

SOMEONE GIVE HIM A BLOWER ALREADY! Please. :)

There, NOW you'll get one for sure - LOL!
 
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