BBF and T56 swaps..alot to learn!!!

talonhead

Registered User
Whoooo..... Got hooked on the 460 swap and the t56 swap ideas.
Since I substituted an H2 for my wifes daily driver, and I have my SD 4x4 (Gonna need it for this project1:D ) I can turn my '93 SC 5 spd into "THE PROJECT" So now I've spent what little time I have to myself as I am away from home for work on the 'net researching.
Bouncing from forum to forum chasing threads about 460 EFI conversions and T56 set-ups....:eek: eyes are starting to glaze and the case of printer paper is getting low.....

Had to learn about the different setups for the t56 and what's available. LOTS!
The t56 has basically a 2 piece "bellhousing" the front adapter plate which is actually the front bulkhead of the trans, and the clutch housing adapter.
For us to use this an LS1 front end is needed. It provides the hyd. slave mount. The clutch housing adapter "bellhousing" for BBF or 3.8 can be gotten from McLeod.
McLeod also makes offset shifters for the T56 up to 4"!
http://www.mcleodind.com/application_guide_pgs/shifter1_c.html

So far the only real problem that I haven't been able to fiddle out is EEC IV MAF (electronic)set-up for the 460.

V8 harness..noprob, fuel same--4bbl carb intake, add injector bungs, injectors, fuel rails, fuel reg.......this is easy. But FORD kept changing the D*&M Firing orders for their engines!!!!! :mad: Sooooo, here's the $20K question...Can you reprogram a ?5.0 ECU to work with a 7.5?
I'd like to have an SEFI MAF EEC IV to reliably deliver performance, econemy and drivability.

I've had to dump alot of stuff to paper off my work machine do to verrrrry limited space. Am working on rescanning onto my laptop. Questions welcome along with more data and help. My car and garage are 400+ miles away so I am handicapped by not being able to go look or measure (sux):(

PM's welcome.

Thanks in advance,

MikeH
 
If you are dead set on EFI either run a standalone EFI conversion (many on the market) or get the engine/computer/and harness from a 93-95 F250 w/ 460. Then build up the engine, and tune the computer. It uses MAF too so you can upgrade injectors.

I would just go with an 850 CFM Demon carb but that's me.
 
Standalone would be best...But why not just use a ford EEC for the 460? with associated intakes and all..Height may be an issue but you can get a custom upper intake made
 
There was only one style of Ford EEC made for the 460 that was MAF. It was a cali addition and was not all that easy to come by and I am pretty sure it was bank fire. There are people who could probably tune the five oh setup to make it do what you want but I do not know. If it is a race car only, use a carb and I would not go with the 850 to start with. The 460 firing order is 15426378 and has always been that. If you are goint to put a 5.0 harness on there, you will need to swap four injector wires and four plug wires from the HO pattern of 13726548.

Since we are on this page, five out of the top six of the PHR engines were Ford based SMALL blocks. 433 cid with CHI 3v heads and a carb. Close to 900 NA. I think a smaller lower compression street engine with those heads would do wonders for your car.

Chris
 
460 Swap off for a while....

Have learned a fair amount about the big EFI/truck engines. Seems that most are Speed Density non-SEFI (bank fired injectors). That it may be possible using a chip/tweecer to 'recalibrate' a 5.0 (non-HO)computer to deal with the increased displacement.
Still trying to figure out what to use for ignition components.

.......When I'm not trying to find the rest of the parts for T-56 swap.

Mcleod sbf/ls1 t56 bellhousing kit (from summit $461) arrived.
LS1 T-56 trans remanufactured w/warranty
(from NY Block Exchange $1700 trans+$300core+$0 shipping)arrived
Initial trans/BH fit good.
Currently getting ready to pull eng/tran.

MikeH
 
One word, CARBURETOR.

Save a lot of work and hassle. You'll get MAYBE 1-2 MPG's worse, but you'll have more power.

Fuel injection's for small blocks.:D
 
as die hard as i am for carbs, i would love to see a fuel injeced 460! never knew they made them.
 
It wouldn't be that hard to setup for a different control system. There is that MegaSquirt system out there that could run the entire operation, don't need the EEC-IV and it's reasonably priced. You could use sensors off various Ford products to get the inputs. http://www.megasquirt.info/

There might even be folks already with programs to control such a engine.
 
Weeeellllllll.....

Wound up with another '93 (an auto). Pulling the engine to put in the wife's car with the T56 while I rebuild her engine. This one needs alot of TLC.
Planning to go foward with a BBF probaly with an auto to start, but with a serious eye towards a stick more than likely a t56. We'll have to see how the 3.8/t56 works.
 
as die hard as i am for carbs, i would love to see a fuel injeced 460! never knew they made them.

Later 80's heavy pickups(250, 350) that had a 460 eventually turned to injection. I have driven an 87 that had a factory Holley and later drove an (I think) 88 that had efi.
 
Guys, why make it so hard. If you grab up an EEC IV from a mustang 5.0 with MAF and its wiring harness you just need to go into the tune and adjust it for that motor, and yes you can even change the firing order for everything if you had to.

Be a heck of a lot cheaper and just as reliable.

Fraser
 
Guys, why make it so hard. If you grab up an EEC IV from a mustang 5.0 with MAF and its wiring harness you just need to go into the tune and adjust it for that motor, and yes you can even change the firing order for everything if you had to.

Be a heck of a lot cheaper and just as reliable.

Fraser

Basically you're wanting him to wire up the computer setup from a different car as a cheap, outdated, standalone ECU...... What exactly is this LESS "Hard" than??
 
Because the car is basically set up to run with the EEC system. And for tuning, the EEC is ALOT easier to tune than an aftermarket system, especially if its speed density based like alot of them are. I can swap out the wiring harnesses in my car in a couple of hours to support a v8, and if I wanted to, I could even use the existing EEC thats installed to run the 460 and it would only take an hour or so to tweak the tune to do so.

Outdated? don't think so.... The EEC IV is still a very potent engine management system, and alot of the "aftermarket" systems out there actually use the EEC IV's. You might want to do some research on the EEC IV before you crap on it.

Fraser
 
Because the car is basically set up to run with the EEC system.
How so? What makes a car set up to run with the EEC system? Wheels?

And for tuning, the EEC is ALOT easier to tune than an aftermarket system.
Uhh... I guess you haven't used Megatune... Tell it your displacement, cylinder count, injector size, and it will likely start..... Want a baseline VE Table? Tell it what type of power you expect to see from your motor and it will generate one..... OK, now wanna narrow down your tune it a bit? Press that little "Autotune" button and go for a drive..... Ready for some fine tuning? Have a friend drive, and press the "Up" or "Down" arrows to add or remove fuel on the fly.... Doesn't seem too hard to me....

, especially if its speed density based like alot of them are
Seriously? What's hard to understand about speed density? You use SPEED (RPM) as one axis of your VE table, and DENSITY (Boost/Vac) as another... The big words may sound confusing, but there really is nothing complicated. For any X rpms, and Y psi, you need Z fuel to get to the AFRs you want.

See, here's the thing... 14 psi is always 14 psi.... 400 MAF counts can be ANY amount of air based on the design of the MAF housing.

I can swap out the wiring harnesses in my car in a couple of hours to support a v8
I wasn't aware that the bulkhead connector in the supercoupe engine bay had the wiring for the additional two injector drivers. Is this the case? Is the pinout the same between the mustang and the thunderbird?

I could even use the existing EEC thats installed to run the 460 and it would only take an hour or so to tweak the tune to do so.
Really, that's pretty neat seeing that his carb 460 lacks things such as cam/crank position sensors, IACs, TPS's, EGR systems, etc, etc, etc.

Outdated? don't think so.... The EEC IV is still a very potent engine management system, and alot of the "aftermarket" systems out there actually use the EEC IV's.
I said outdated, not obsolete, and you cannot argue that. Aftermarket systems obviously allow a more diverse feature set for the end users, as they are made to be adaptable for any multitude of application... That's what makes them "Stand-alone".

You might want to do some research on the EEC IV before you crap on it.

Fraser
Oh, I'm not crapping on it, man. I'm just saying that it's probably not the BEST solution for his situation. It may be CHEAPER, and you get what you pay for.

Remember, Just because it's YOUR big hammer, doesn't mean it's the RIGHT hammer for the job. He's putting a vastly different motor in his chassis, and he is converting from carb to EFI... Standalone ECUs were created SPECIFICALLY for this....
 
Uhh... I guess you haven't used Megatune..
....

Oh, I'm not crapping on it, man. I'm just saying that it's probably not the BEST solution for his situation. It may be CHEAPER, and you get what you pay for.

Remember, Just because it's YOUR big hammer, doesn't mean it's the RIGHT hammer for the job. He's putting a vastly different motor in his chassis, and he is converting from carb to EFI... Standalone ECUs were created SPECIFICALLY for this....

I get the impression that you are talking about Megasquirt as your example of a stand alone system. I also get the impression that you completely unfamiliar with the functionality available within an EEC-IV i processor.

An EEC-IV processor with EDIS ignition is probably the highest value solution for most people that don't like to tinker a ton with stuff available today. The value wasn't there 9 months ago.

If you like to tinker and muck with stuff, and/or you want speed density, then your best value is going to come from a stand alone system like Megasquirt.
 
I get the impression that you are talking about Megasquirt as your example of a stand alone system. I also get the impression that you completely unfamiliar with the functionality available within an EEC-IV i processor.

An EEC-IV processor with EDIS ignition is probably the highest value solution for most people that don't like to tinker a ton with stuff available today. The value wasn't there 9 months ago.

If you like to tinker and muck with stuff, and/or you want speed density, then your best value is going to come from a stand alone system like Megasquirt.

You would be correct in that I use Megasquirt on my car and I am running EDIS.

I get that EEC-IV can do a lot, and I also can see that it would be a mismatched solution for swapping in a 460 and converting it to EFI. If he already is comfortable tuning a chipped computer, or knows someone who is, the story changes.
 
5.0 eec-iv (a9l) ecu

From what I have read and got from people in the aftermarket world. They use the ford A9L mustang/manual ecu as the base for a lot of efi backfits.
Mass-flo efi uses it as the standard ecu on any engine make or size (v8) NA or blown.
In the interest of saving a few $$ I was trying to figure out which parts I could scrounge of other vehicles to cobble most of a system together.
V8 engine harness' from a stang or 'bird, MAF/injectors from a lightning?
The ignition type and parts gives me a headache.
TFI dizzy (remote or modded diz w/onboard tfi), crank sensor? what type? Can I go with COPs? DIS/EDIS? Cam sensor?

A 4bbl manifold with inj bungs, custom fuel rail, upgrade fuel delivery lines on car. Fuel cell, Batt in trunk.

TB can be a normal modern TB or a "4 barrel" progressive. With the 'carb' style TB fresh air is now no prob. Use of functional hood scoops i.e. ram-air cowl induction like any carb setup is now easier.

Since I will be pretty much gutting the engine bay during overhaul. Its just a matter of finding the best combo.
This is going to be a daily driver (summer only) fun car. I can break enough stuff without taking her to the track. So dependability is key.
Now I have to find an engine. ...........unless it's free it'll have to wait.
I have to finish the wife's car first.:)
MikeH
 
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