Oil cooler...?

Kit Sullivan

Registered User
I was underneath the car and noticed the oil filter base plate is part of an oil cooler. Where do the oil lines run to? I can't see any oil cooler up front anywhere, and the lines appear to run of towards the rear of the engine somewhere.
 
It is cooled with Coolant from the engine. One side goes to the Water pump and the other runs around the engine to the Heater Core.

- Dan
 
Engine coolant? Wow, what a half-baked effort! Not very efficient for all the trouble to design, build and install.
Too bad Ford could'nt install a real oil cooler.
 
Not so fast. ;) The oil cooler serves 2 purposes.

1) It pre-heats the oil and makes sure that it runs at engine temp. This is a big deal if the car is run in cold climates.

2) It cools the oil. You want the oil to run at engine temp, just not too much hotter, as I'm sure you know.

The oil cooler design that is used on the SC is actually a very efficient design and it is quite capable of keeping oil temperature stable. Rather than just cool the oil it serves to stabilize and maintain oil temp.

:)
 
Not so fast. ;) The oil cooler serves 2 purposes.

1) It pre-heats the oil and makes sure that it runs at engine temp. This is a big deal if the car is run in cold climates.

2) It cools the oil. You want the oil to run at engine temp, just not too much hotter, as I'm sure you know.

The oil cooler design that is used on the SC is actually a very efficient design and it is quite capable of keeping oil temperature stable. Rather than just cool the oil it serves to stabilize and maintain oil temp.

:)

1) How can it pre-heat the oil? If the engine coolant is hot enough to 'pre-heat' the oil, then the engine is obviously already warm...how else would the coolant get warm? And, no matter what temp you are referring to, the oil is always at 'engine temp'.
The idea of an oil cooler is that you want to lower the temperature of the oil to below that of the current engine temp, to help keep the engine internals cool.
I understand the cold climate issue, but with today's sophisticated oils that is far less a concern than before.
I admit it can be beneficial in colder climates at cold start up, but it seems reltively useless in hot climates or on a hot engine.

2) It might cool the oil, but not nearly enough to make a significant difference. Engine coolant opperates at about 220-250 degrees, so it clearly can't reduce it's temp any more than that.
On the other hand, a normal air-to-oil cooler would lower the oil about 60-70 below its operating temp. If the oil was 280-320 degress, which is higher than normal, it would bring it down to around 240 or so...a huge difference.

All in all, I would have preferred they use a 'real' oil cooler. Maybe I'll install one...it ain't to difficult.
 
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All in all, I would have preferred they use a 'real' oil cooler. Maybe I'll install one...it ain't to difficult.

Go ahead and install an oil cooler. I am curious to know the temp diff. Do you have real before figures(temps) so you can compare to the after temps? The biggest thing with oil coolers is they need airflow. I spent $400 on an oil cooler, remote filter kit, and SS braided lines and my oil temp was no cooler. I had other issues that could have contributed to this though. Everyone has a story...right?
 
Yeah, sufficient airflow on the SC seems to be a big issue.

That cool-looking front end really lowers the amount of available air flow.

I think a top-mounted intercooler with a nice hood scoop would have really solved a lot of issues with these cars:

1) Shorter run of the I/C tubes would have helped performance considerably.
2) The direct airflow would have also made the I/C much more effective.
3) More room to work underhood.
4) More room for a decent sized radiator up front.

Oh well, they is what they is!
 
Im sure that water / coolant has different properities than Engine oil. The water pump is always flowing coolant through the oil cooler, so while the engine is heating up ( which usually takes at least 30 seconds on initial startup to get the oil flowing and more viscous before you should start driving ) the coolant is also heating up. My best guess is that water heats up faster than oil, so it helps to pre-heat the oil .. or at least regulate its temperature. Oil that gets too hot burns off or loses its oiling efficiency. Its like the transmission cooler inside the radiator .. its not very big at all, but it does keep it cooler than it if were not there at all - not because its in the direct flow of air, but because its in the radiator and regulated by the temperature of the coolant. At least the SC's have some kind of regulating device, which is pretty critical on cars like these that tend to not run very well when they get too hot. The 3.8 NA and other engines dont even have this cooler. Thats just my thoughts .. :cool:

- Dan
 
1) How can it pre-heat the oil? If the engine coolant is hot enough to 'pre-heat' the oil, then the engine is obviously already warm...how else would the coolant get warm? And, no matter what temp you are referring to, the oil is always at 'engine temp'.
The idea of an oil cooler is that you want to lower the temperature of the oil to below that of the current engine temp, to help keep the engine internals cool.
I understand the cold climate issue, but with today's sophisticated oils that is far less a concern than before.
I admit it can be beneficial in colder climates at cold start up, but it seems reltively useless in hot climates or on a hot engine.

2) It might cool the oil, but not nearly enough to make a significant difference. Engine coolant opperates at about 220-250 degrees, so it clearly can't reduce it's temp any more than that.
On the other hand, a normal air-to-oil cooler would lower the oil about 60-70 below its operating temp. If the oil was 280-320 degress, which is higher than normal, it would bring it down to around 240 or so...a huge difference.

All in all, I would have preferred they use a 'real' oil cooler. Maybe I'll install one...it ain't to difficult.
I don't quite understand. In one post you say that we should run 5w30 oil because "the engineers know what they are doing" but on the next one you swear that the stock oil cooler must be junk without doing any testing or research. :confused:
 
Speaking of Ford's brilliant designs regardin cooling...Have any of you seen the front end of the new diesel Super Duty's? Rads on top of rads. Cooloant,tranny,ac,intercooler,oil,and two others. Probably one for the windshield washer fluid?? Lets just say a fender bender would render it useless,and a huge bill.
 
Well, please don't paint me with such a wide brush:

First of all, most engineers do know what they are talking about, and I would like to humbly include myself in that category. I am a 20+ year (and current)ASE-certified double 'Master-Tech', as well as a certified tribologist and rheological engineer.
I am a contributing member of both the SAE(Society of Automotive Engineers) and the STLE (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers).
I have authored 17 papers on various automotive subjects over the last 14 years.
I also co-authored papers with John Bishop, the inventor of the original 'Lubrilon' formula, which later was renamed 'Slick 50'. John and I are both from Houston Texas, where we met and worked together.
In addition, over the lastb 5 years or so I have worked with and authored a few papers, as well as made some engineering videoes with Owen Heatwole (Vice President of engineering-QMI labs)
I have been a requested guest board member on the engineering boards of ExxonMobil for the last 5 years, and was previously the same for Ashland (Valvoline). I also contribute regularly to both 'North American Lubricants' and 'Superior Lubricants', two industrial lubricant manufacturers in Louisiana.
My recent recommendation (Nov, 06) to ExxonMobil is largely responsible for their new product formulation of Mobil-1 10W-30 'High Mileage-Classic'. This oil meets the pre-2005(GF-4) guidelines for GF-3 oil, and it exceeds any iteration of GF-3 that came before.



I never said the stock cooler was 'junk'. I only said that a proper air-to-oil cooler would have been more effective.

As for not doing any testing, I have done plenty: Engine oil, by and large will heat faster and more uniformely than the coolant will from a cold start, due mostly to the effect of the thermostat restricting coolant flow until the opening temp has been reached. That is my basis for questioning the ultimate functionality of the as-installed oil cooler.
I did not state that the cooler was ineffctive...just not effective enough for all the trouble they went to to install one. I assume the lack of sufficient space up front to take advantage of any airflow may have been a factor...but who knows.
Your use of the word 'regulate' may be the key here: Ford was probably more interested in maintaining the oil at a specific 'target' temperature than to really give it the maximum cooling ability that a regular oil cooler would have provided.
Whereas an air-to-oil cooler may have been more effective at cooling the oil and therefore the engine internals, thier goal could have been based on any number of things. Most of the time it all comes back to emissions. At very specific temperatures, emmisions are optimized and if Ford convinced the gov that they designed a system to maintain that optimzation, that may be a reason (among many)they got the approval to sell the drivetrain.

Like everyone else here, I have learned an immeasurable amount of info from the rest of the SCers on this forum.
I try to know as much as I can...but I clearly don't know everything, so I have never been afraid to ask for others' opinions.

I have plenty of bad habits (no false modesty, for starters!) however, one thing I never do is argue with or insult someone who is seeking fruitful knowledge.

Thanks to everyone here...I love this place!
 
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And the man pulls out his Credentials ... :cool:

Well id say you certainly know more about Oil than most people here. Only the Ford engineers know the real reason why they ran the oil cooler the way they did .. all we can do is speculate. :D

- Dan
 
I feel that there is often a mis-understanding between too hot and too cold. Like the porridge, you really want it just right. Too cool and how the oil behaves is not ideal. Too hot, and the oil isn't able to take out enough heat as it's been asked to do. Too hot also plays with the same problems that too cold is, materials are engineered with clearances to be ideal within certain temperatures. Too hot and it expands too much. Too cold and it doesn't expand enough.

If you do an external oil cooler, make sure it's thermostatically controlled fan at the very least as you don't want it too cool.

I believe the oil cooler fittings are in place so that the water circulating in the block is also circulated through the oil cooler, thus it gets warm as the engine gets warm.
 
The oil cooler hooks right to the water pump, not to the radiator. So yes, if the thermostat is closed, it should be getting warm coolant from the block.

Also, these "donut-style" oil coolers are actually pretty popular with OEMs. They are on some Toyota trucks, some Chevy V8s, some new Fords, etc. And they are expensive too. Patented design, apparently. I think they are used a lot because they are very compact and pretty effective.
 
I was underneath the car and noticed the oil filter base plate is part of an oil cooler. Where do the oil lines run to? I can't see any oil cooler up front anywhere, and the lines appear to run of towards the rear of the engine somewhere.


I'm not bashing you at all Kit, but if you were looking at the oil cooler and saw the 2 lines coming out of it you can clearly see that one goes right to the water pump and you should be able to tell just from being a Mater Tech that those are coolant lines not oil lines....did you think that oil was pumped into the water pump?
 
Actually I didn't look at it myself...I was just relaying info the guy at the tranny shop told me.
But I have since seen it and it is clear that those are obviously coolant lines. And the fact that they do not run to the front is the clear tip-off that they aren't oil lines, plus they are quite large diameter.

And I do seem to remember that the coolant ain't 'sposed to mix with the oil. Not bad for a 'mater tech', huh?
 
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