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THE BIRDMAN
05-20-2007, 08:52 PM
Curious how many people would be interested in buying a set of stock SC heads that were fully CNC ported I.E. cnc'd intake and exhaust ports and also the chambers ?

The reason I'm asking is because I'm talking to a company right now about writing a program and cnc porting our stock heads.And I'm just trying to gauge interest.How many people would buy a set of CNC'd heads.Oh by the way I'm not a vendor or anything I'm just an gearhead and an SC lover trying to get more interest in our cars.Also the heads would be purchased right from the company not me.In possibly a group buy.

I'm not trying to step on anyones toes with trying to get this done it's just that I haven't seen where anyone was offering a cnc ported head for our cars.Which would be nice because of the equal port flow,increased horsepower,and repeatability, etc.I know there is talk about a new set of heads for our cars but it seems like it'll be a little time before they are available.And these would not be a replacement for them either. I think the heads that I'm trying to get done will be more for the street and strip SC not anyone trying to be the fastest or most powerful SC.

So let me know if this sounds like something you guys would be interested in.Also let me know any questions you have and I'll do my best to find out the answers.

Jay

XxSlowpokexX
05-20-2007, 09:03 PM
I would..The only issue I see is core shift from one head to another. That could affect the porting

THE BIRDMAN
05-20-2007, 09:22 PM
I would..The only issue I see is core shift from one head to another. That could affect the porting



That is a good point.I wonder how much core shift would affect this but there is plenty of other O.E heads that get cnc'd on a normal basis.Plus these I don't beleive would be a "max port" head.So it should leave enough meat to help compensate for core shift.


Jay

Mike8675309
05-20-2007, 09:53 PM
I'd suggest talking with people that build heads. You'd really want to do the CNC for a specific kind of setup. Then you could do it all. I.e. folks going to stud mount rockers will need some stuff done. Work on the valve areas may need new larger valve seats installed. Things like that would all usually want to be looked into at the time you do heads.

THE BIRDMAN
05-20-2007, 10:10 PM
I'd suggest talking with people that build heads. You'd really want to do the CNC for a specific kind of setup. Then you could do it all. I.e. folks going to stud mount rockers will need some stuff done. Work on the valve areas may need new larger valve seats installed. Things like that would all usually want to be looked into at the time you do heads.



I agree I'm not a head builder the company I'm talking with is.I'm just another SC lover trying to get people interested in our cars so they'll lend some support.I'm not a cnc guru either but I would assume you could ad the mods needed for stud mount rockers to the "basic program".

I told jason that I think the interest would be more toward bigger valve heads and not stock size valves. What's everyones thought on this?Stock size or oversized?Note;He is willing to make programs and build both stock size vlv ports configes and oversized if the demand is there.

Also in a basic package I told him most people run a 520 to 600 lift cam so he is looking at specing 600 lift springs.Is that what most everyone would be interested in?

Once again all input is appreciated.

Jay

XR7 Dave
05-20-2007, 11:16 PM
Coy Miller already offers this. Just FYI.

THE BIRDMAN
05-20-2007, 11:25 PM
Coy Miller already offers this. Just FYI.

Did not know that Coy's were CNC heads I thought they where hand ported.So far these look like they'd be alot cheaper than Coy's heads but then again they won't come with ti-retainers and roller rockers,pushrods etc like like his "head package" it'll just be a complete set of ready to run heads.

Jay

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2007, 09:27 AM
There is always room for another set of heads. Of all the engines I ever built the only set of heads that ever had titanium locks and retainers were my Steigs.

Tiatanium locks and retainers are a few hundred right there.

I'm sure a real nice set of heads can be had cheaper just by substituting parts such as those along with better pricing on the finishing side

XR7 Dave
05-21-2007, 09:41 AM
I think if someone were to contact Coy about doing heads less expensive than what he currently offers he might do it. The CNC work doesnt' cost that much. It's the bronze guides, SS valves, oversize seats, double springs, guideplates, etc, etc. that costs so much money. Options are great, but people need to know what the bottom line is going to be when it's all said and done ready to run.

So how much would a bare set of ported heads cost?

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2007, 10:37 AM
So how much would a bare set of ported heads cost?

As much as someone feels thier time is worth..YOU KNOW THAT ANSWER!

The thing I think is that a majority of people do not need all out racehead componants to make 350RWHP. If durability is the main concern a stock heads lasts for sometime so many of the expensive race oriented parts really dont need to be used.

Hand ported heads vary from port to port head to head.

The nice thing about a CNC head is that you spent ALLOT of time upfront porting and flowing the heads to get as ideal a combination as possable..THEN you copy that

So what you can ultimately get is a port job that a hand porter wouldnt generally supply you because it would just take too much time and effert.

I;m a firm believ ehowever that even a CNC job should be cleaned up afterwards

mywhite89
05-21-2007, 10:38 AM
So how much would a bare set of ported heads cost?

This is what I would be interested in

THE BIRDMAN
05-21-2007, 11:51 AM
Well right now what I'm being told is if we could get 5 sets sold the price would be right around 1375 with you sending in a set of cores to be ported.

That price would include bronze guides,all new oversized valves,new seats,double valve springs up to 600 lift,with fully cnc ported chambers,intake,and exhaust ports.Ready to bolt on.


I think that's a pretty decent price for a set of cnc ported heads.


If we could get more than 5 sets sold say maybe 10 we could get an even cheaper price.


Jay

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2007, 12:08 PM
Best selling point would be some flow numbers at this point.

I was given information from another source that CNC ported heads with a built up exhaust port (they build it up before porting) could be had for a lil over 1,600

So some numbers would be great

THE BIRDMAN
05-21-2007, 12:20 PM
Best selling point would be some flow numbers at this point.

I was given information from another source that CNC ported heads with a built up exhaust port (they build it up before porting) could be had for a lil over 1,600

So some numbers would be great



Yeah he is willing to weld up the exhaust port also if there is enough demand for it but the above pricing is for unwelded.

Bad thing is I won't get flow #'s unless we get at least and order for 2 sets or more.With half the price paid upfront.Then the company would develop the ports and in 2 to 3 weeks I'd be given the flow #'s.


Jay

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2007, 04:57 PM
Or perhaps garunteed to be a certain # based on the competition. I feel the more options the better however it will be a hard sell without #'s

rzibilske77
05-21-2007, 05:57 PM
Well right now what I'm being told is if we could get 5 sets sold the price would be right around 1375 with you sending in a set of cores to be ported.

That price would include bronze guides,all new oversized valves,new seats,double valve springs up to 600 lift,with fully cnc ported chambers,intake,and exhaust ports.Ready to bolt on.


I think that's a pretty decent price for a set of cnc ported heads.


If we could get more than 5 sets sold say maybe 10 we could get an even cheaper price.





Jay

sounds promising and would be an interested party, but like dameon said it would be nice to have numbers......

THE BIRDMAN
05-21-2007, 06:46 PM
sounds promising and would be an interested party, but like dameon said it would be nice to have numbers......



Yes I agree about the flow #'s would be a bonus but until we place an order of 2 or more sets with a deposit of half the asking price there not gonna develop a program or port a set to get #'s.


The price does include quality parts.It uses new seats with Manley Race Master Race Flow intake and exhaust valves,Comp Cams dual valve springs(good to 600 lift),Comp moly retainers,Comp 10degree locks,and viton seals.5-Axis CNC ported intake,exhaust and chambers,plus a Serdi competition valve job.Assembled and valvtrain set up to customers application.


Jay

THE BIRDMAN
05-22-2007, 07:36 PM
I'm gonna try to get up with him tommorrow and see if I can get somekind of "Guaranteed Atleast this much flow #'s"


Jay

XxSlowpokexX
05-23-2007, 10:43 AM
Chances are any reputable head porter will be able to produce sim flow numbers with the greatest variation being means of testing flow. Also a good valve job with a serdi machine is always a wonderful thing

Pablo94SC
05-23-2007, 01:01 PM
I'm in the market for a set of heads, so let me know prices and such. I might be willing to do the half up front and send him my heads, as long as I get the heads I send in back all nice and ported. :D

seawalkersee
05-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Chances are any reputable head porter will be able to produce sim flow numbers with the greatest variation being means of testing flow. Also a good valve job with a serdi machine is always a wonderful thing

I would hope that they would already know the shapes of the current heads before promising numbers. Have they seen some of the flow numbers already reached by other people?

Chris

joshbea6
05-23-2007, 03:14 PM
I'm also in need of a GOOD flowing set of heads and am watching this thread with GREAT interest.

Also watching the new intake thread closely!:D

THE BIRDMAN
05-23-2007, 08:08 PM
Chances are any reputable head porter will be able to produce sim flow numbers with the greatest variation being means of testing flow. Also a good valve job with a serdi machine is always a wonderful thing

That's what I was thinking also.I didn't get a chance to get ahold of him today but I'm getting ready to e-mail him with some flow #'s from other places and see what he has to say.I'll keep ya'll posted.

Jay

THE BIRDMAN
05-23-2007, 08:10 PM
I'm in the market for a set of heads, so let me know prices and such. I might be willing to do the half up front and send him my heads, as long as I get the heads I send in back all nice and ported. :D


Price would be 1375 if we order 5 sets and that would be with the components in post #17.

Jay

THE BIRDMAN
05-23-2007, 08:12 PM
I would hope that they would already know the shapes of the current heads before promising numbers. Have they seen some of the flow numbers already reached by other people?

Chris

I'm e-mailing himthe flow #'s from some other places.I don't know if he'll make any promises on #'s or not but we'll see.

Jay

THE BIRDMAN
05-24-2007, 01:45 AM
Does anyone have a junk set of heads that I can have?Or will sell me real cheap?Cause I wanna send them to the company so they can cut them up and help to start possibly develop the port shape etc.Doesn't matter if they have stripped spark plug holes or cracked seats he just needs a set to check out and see what he can do with them.If anyone has a junk set laying around let me know.If anyone gives me a set I'll pay the shipping.


Jay

joshbea6
05-24-2007, 10:56 AM
Price would be 1375 if we order 5 sets and that would be with the components in post #17.

Jay

Jay, I'm assuming then since it did not mention it, that the rocker studs would be up to the individual to get then?

THE BIRDMAN
05-24-2007, 11:15 AM
Jay, I'm assuming then since it did not mention it, that the rocker studs would be up to the individual to get then?



Josh that is correct.Basically you'd get a complete set of heads ready to bolt on.But you'd have to use your own rockers,pushrods etc.


Jay

kws6000
05-24-2007, 08:37 PM
I dont think this head porter really cares about our business,otherwise he would do the r&d and not expect his customers to pay sight unseen.The concept is good, but I wouldnt plunk down my cash for an unknown.

joshbea6
05-24-2007, 08:48 PM
I dont think this head porter really cares about our business,otherwise he would do the r&d and not expect his customers to pay sight unseen.The concept is good, but I wouldnt plunk down my cash for an unknown.

If you would have read above....


Does anyone have a junk set of heads that I can have?Or will sell me real cheap?Cause I wanna send them to the company so they can cut them up and help to start possibly develop the port shape etc.Doesn't matter if they have stripped spark plug holes or cracked seats he just needs a set to check out and see what he can do with them.If anyone has a junk set laying around let me know.If anyone gives me a set I'll pay the shipping.

Jay

Jay is trying to get a set of heads to them so that way he CAN do the R&D on the heads. I saw that there was mention of the final price, but I don't remember there being mention of sending him money yet until he knows what kinds of numbers he can get from the heads.

kws6000
05-24-2007, 09:43 PM
If you would have read above....



Jay is trying to get a set of heads to them so that way he CAN do the R&D on the heads. I saw that there was mention of the final price, but I don't remember there being mention of sending him money yet until he knows what kinds of numbers he can get from the heads.

oops,I didnt read the whole thread.

seawalkersee
05-24-2007, 10:46 PM
No one has a cracked set of heads? I have seen a few on the threads here and there but wow. I figured someone would be able to help. I have a spare set but I want to keep them if all else fails or I crack one of mine.

Chris

THE BIRDMAN
05-25-2007, 02:33 AM
I dont think this head porter really cares about our business,otherwise he would do the r&d and not expect his customers to pay sight unseen.The concept is good, but I wouldnt plunk down my cash for an unknown.

He does but as long as he can make money at it just like every other vendor on here.I brought the project to him not the other way around. I can get my heads done from him fully CNC'd myself for 200 bucks more than the price for 5 sets or more.But I thought it would be nice to get another person(meaning another company) interested in our cars especially if they could offer a better product (or atleast one similar at a better price)than what we have available to us now.I mean our cars are over a decade old and we're not as much in the "LIME LIGHT" as say grand nationals (ANOTHER 3.8 POER ADDER CAR).So in my eyes we nead all the help we can get.I'm sorry if I sound like a ~~~~. I'm really not trying to I'm just trying to give all the SC'rs another option.As far as heads go.Which by the way in my research there hasn't been alot of people stepping up to offer us anything special unless you want to pay tons of money for it.


Jay

THE BIRDMAN
05-25-2007, 02:42 AM
No one has a cracked set of heads? I have seen a few on the threads here and there but wow. I figured someone would be able to help. I have a spare set but I want to keep them if all else fails or I crack one of mine.

Chris

Chris I'm in the same boat so to say I"m picking up an extra set from Tim at Carisle.But I to would like to hold on to them so I can send them in to get done up after I get all the details worked out with this company.


But I remember reading a thread about someone with cracked heads not that long ago.But I don't remember who it was.So I'll have an extra set worse case senario that I can send in (just to get cut upm and help to develop these head).Then I'll just buy another set to send in to have ported.But I'm sure someone on here has a junk set and like I said before I'll pay shipping for them and maybe even give a little money to get them.

Jay

Pablo94SC
05-25-2007, 12:29 PM
I'm in the boat of have two sets, one early and one late, but I'm not sure of the condition of either and definitely don't want a good set cut up only to find out my other is worthless.

If he was willing to check both sets out first, then I might be willing to send them to you. Hopefully he could cut the early and save the late model for porting, as they are supposed to have a thicker deck than the early model heads.

nickleman60
05-25-2007, 01:05 PM
what's the difference between early and late model heads?

THE BIRDMAN
05-25-2007, 01:27 PM
I'm in the boat of have two sets, one early and one late, but I'm not sure of the condition of either and definitely don't want a good set cut up only to find out my other is worthless.

If he was willing to check both sets out first, then I might be willing to send them to you. Hopefully he could cut the early and save the late model for porting, as they are supposed to have a thicker deck than the early model heads.


I've been told that all our heads 89 to 95 were the same.Does anyone know for sure if they made any changes and if so what was changed?


DOES ANYONE HAVE A BAD SET OF HEADS I COULD GET FROM THEM????

Pablo94SC
05-25-2007, 01:44 PM
what's the difference between early and late model heads?

Like I said, I heard they have a slightly thicker deck than the early models. This isn't a big deal overall, but it's nice to have a little more meat if you have to true the heads.

seawalkersee
05-25-2007, 03:23 PM
Have you checked with XR7Dave yet?

Chris

BLOWN38
05-25-2007, 05:39 PM
I have a set of NA 3.8 heads. The ports are the same correct? The difference is the amount of coolant passages around the combustion chamber, correct?

David Neibert
05-25-2007, 06:25 PM
Similar offer was made back in 2004 by another shop. Hope it gets off the ground this time. Always nice to have alternative suppliers.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42903

David

THE BIRDMAN
05-25-2007, 08:44 PM
Have you checked with XR7Dave yet?

Chris


I just put a post up in the tech forum so we'll see what happens.

Jay

XxSlowpokexX
05-26-2007, 12:51 PM
blown the valve stem diameters are different

THE BIRDMAN
05-26-2007, 01:43 PM
blown the valve stem diameters are different


Yeah I need to get my hands on another set of SC heads to send in so we know there isn't a difference.

If anyone see a set cheap let me know.


Jay

Rob m
05-28-2007, 03:12 PM
No one has a cracked set of heads? I have seen a few on the threads here and there but wow. I figured someone would be able to help. I have a spare set but I want to keep them if all else fails or I crack one of mine.

Chris

I dont even know what the heads I just pulled off my SC are but I don't have a need for them so If you want some heads and these will work for what you need, pay to have them shipped and they are yours. Check them out http://www.cardomain.com/id/SCUL8TR

THE BIRDMAN
05-28-2007, 05:40 PM
I dont even know what the heads I just pulled off my SC are but I don't have a need for them so If you want some heads and these will work for what you need, pay to have them shipped and they are yours. Check them out http://www.cardomain.com/id/SCUL8TR

Hey Rob if they have SC cast into them I'll take them.How much shipped to 19952.And do you have paypal?

Jay

David Neibert
05-28-2007, 10:49 PM
Jay,

Those are not SC heads on that cardomain page.

David

THE BIRDMAN
05-29-2007, 10:12 AM
Ok I got another set of heads coming that I'll probably be sending into the company to check out.Now I curious how many people would seriously put the money up to get a set of these heads is the flow #'s are good.I'm asking because I'm thinking of sending in a set of heads for them to develop the CNC program and get the flow #'s on.If they will let me pay half up front to find out what kind of #'s they can come up with.But if everyone buys there own heads seperatly then it's gonna cost 1575 per set.But If 5 of us get together and "group buy" them we can get them for 1375.If more than 5 of us want to buy some then maybe we can get even a better price break.But if 5 of us place orders it'll save all us 200 bucks a piece.Which puts these heads cheaper than most that I've seen with all new valvetrain.Plus these will be fully CNC'd.So let me know what ya'll are thinking.


Jay

THE BIRDMAN
05-31-2007, 02:27 PM
So almost 900 veiws and no one is willing to buy a set of these heads for 1375 if the flow #'s are good?


Jay

rzibilske77
05-31-2007, 08:09 PM
So almost 900 veiws and no one is willing to buy a set of these heads for 1375 if the flow #'s are good?


Jay

not much to say until then.................i will be ready to buy.

THE BIRDMAN
05-31-2007, 08:34 PM
not much to say until then.................i will be ready to buy.


Thats what I'm trying to see.How many people would be ready to buy if the #'s are good.Like I said before if we get 5 or more sets we save 200 bucks.But if I'm the only one to buy a set it'll be 1575.And anyone else thaat wants a set will also have to spend 1575.Just trying to save myself some money along with saving everyone else money also.

Jay

rzibilske77
05-31-2007, 08:39 PM
needing 5 people doesn't seem to be a stretch, Theres likely many that would want them, but of course who actually has the cash.

seawalkersee
05-31-2007, 11:16 PM
I am more along the line of waiting for the new casting. Not that this is not a good idea, but I think a totally new head, with a thicker deck, with better ports, will suit me a ton better than just the CNC factories.

Chris

THE BIRDMAN
06-01-2007, 01:01 AM
needing 5 people doesn't seem to be a stretch, Theres likely many that would want them, but of course who actually has the cash.

That's exactly what I'm wondering.

Jay

THE BIRDMAN
06-01-2007, 01:09 AM
I am more along the line of waiting for the new casting. Not that this is not a good idea, but I think a totally new head, with a thicker deck, with better ports, will suit me a ton better than just the CNC factories.

Chris


True if you're looking for max HP but I think the majority of SC owners aren't going to need a head that flows as much as the new casting.And or won't be able to afford them once they do come out.I'm just looking for a head that'll get me in the 12's at a reasonable price.I'd love to buy a set of the new casting once they come out but I fear they'll be out of my price range.Plus I know the shortblock to use them to there max potential will definetly be out of my price range atleast for the next year or 2.I'm just trying to find a really nice set of heads for under 1500 bucks.

Jay

XxSlowpokexX
06-03-2007, 02:29 AM
you like ehhh?

seawalkersee
06-03-2007, 03:48 PM
I didnt mean that to sound bad. I am just looking to weigh my options. I have a large blower and will need some good air flow from the word go. Not that this is not a great deal, but I just KNOW as soon as I step into this, the new ones will come available. It is just my luck.

I got a new 94-5 case two months before the MPIII came out.
Just after I got the MPIII, a 2.3 Whipple came available. I got the 2.3 and now I need to move forward to keep the car on the up and up. I WILL have the fastest five speed......once.

Chris

rzibilske77
06-03-2007, 06:06 PM
I didnt mean that to sound bad. I am just looking to weigh my options. I have a large blower and will need some good air flow from the word go. Not that this is not a great deal, but I just KNOW as soon as I step into this, the new ones will come available. It is just my luck.

I got a new 94-5 case two months before the MPIII came out.
Just after I got the MPIII, a 2.3 Whipple came available. I got the 2.3 and now I need to move forward to keep the car on the up and up. I WILL have the fastest five speed......once.

Chris


and now isn't there a 3.4:eek:

THE BIRDMAN
06-03-2007, 09:35 PM
you like ehhh?


Yes Damon I like the teal ride.It was nice meeeting you this weekend.Carisle is the ~~~~~.Now next year I just have to have my car up and running.


Jay

THE BIRDMAN
06-03-2007, 09:38 PM
I didnt mean that to sound bad. I am just looking to weigh my options. I have a large blower and will need some good air flow from the word go. Not that this is not a great deal, but I just KNOW as soon as I step into this, the new ones will come available. It is just my luck.

I got a new 94-5 case two months before the MPIII came out.
Just after I got the MPIII, a 2.3 Whipple came available. I got the 2.3 and now I need to move forward to keep the car on the up and up. I WILL have the fastest five speed......once.

Chris


I totally understand.I didn't think you were trying to make this idea sound bad.I can't wait to see what kind of power you're gonna get out of that whipple.That thing should be a beast once you get it all done.

Jay

rzimmerl
06-04-2007, 07:29 AM
I'm just trying to find a really nice set of heads for under 1500 bucks.


You can already get a set of proven big valve ported heads and a new billet cam for around $1500 right now. It would be nice to have another option, but the price just isn't right.

THE BIRDMAN
06-04-2007, 08:56 AM
You can already get a set of proven big valve ported heads and a new billet cam for around $1500 right now. It would be nice to have another option, but the price just isn't right.



From who?Super six's are like 1600 heads only and if I remember Morano's are about the same and Coy's are up there in price also.So who sells a head a cam package with big valves and a new cam for around 1500?That would be something I'd be interested in.

Thanks Jay

XxSlowpokexX
06-04-2007, 03:21 PM
The idea of a CNC ported head however is that you will get close to equal results time and time again.

Where a typical head porter will put in a certain amount of time per port when doing a head for a CNC scan many many more hours would be put in to get the most accurat eequal flow between ports...Something never done in the typical hand port..And if they say they do they are lying.

Once that ultimate ported head is created it is then processed and a cnc program created...So a hand ported head when compared to a CNC head usually doenst compare.

I do feel however they should still be cleaned up and inspected after the CNC machine does its thing.

I think I mentioned it before but thats it.

THE BIRDMAN
06-09-2007, 11:44 PM
Well I decided to just go ahead and buy a set of heads from one of the vendors that cruises around on this site.So I won't be posting about these heads any longer.But I did give all the contact info and other info I received from this company and the vendor said he might try to get something going with them.So who knows we may have an affordable set of CNC ported heads yet.Well good luck everyone.

Jay

rzibilske77
06-12-2007, 10:02 PM
just another bust:confused:

95MTSC
06-13-2007, 02:16 PM
just another bust:confused:

Yup. Feels like we'll have to whittle SC parts out of wood if we need them :(

Scott Long
07-01-2007, 12:18 PM
I was interested in those but I just saw this thread. I had been in boot camp when this came up originally.

Things like this make me want to go buy a Mustang so I can just open up Summit and start buying parts and build a fast car. With these cars you gotta search around all over, wait while someone else has your parts, etc.... It's frustrating.

Toms-SC
07-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Somebody just needs to call Coy Miller and ask him to make some more 'economically friendly' set of heads. No need to reinvent the wheel.