PDA

View Full Version : stall converter



nickleman60
06-03-2007, 07:28 PM
:confused: I'm looking for a stall converter to buy while I have my motor out doing a ton of upgrades, which one would everyone reccomend? I don't want a huge one just something to help me off the line, maybe one in the 2200 - 2400 rpm range.

Roadhawg
06-03-2007, 07:30 PM
Mach1/Marauder torque converter will meet your needs...........................

nickleman60
06-03-2007, 07:51 PM
Mach1/Marauder torque converter will meet your needs...........................

don't i have to change the flywheel for that one?

Roadhawg
06-03-2007, 07:59 PM
don't i have to change the flywheel for that one?

Yes.................. you will have to change the flexplate which costs around $49.99

83GT460
06-03-2007, 08:42 PM
:confused: I'm looking for a stall converter to buy while I have my motor out doing a ton of upgrades, which one would everyone reccomend? I don't want a huge one just something to help me off the line, maybe one in the 2200 - 2400 rpm range.


Is this going into one of your cars with a 4R70W? If so I would say you will be much happier with more convertor, because of the lock up clutch there isn't really a downside to going with much higher stall. I installed a 3500 in my car when the engine was still completly stock with just bolt ons and picked up .5 in the 1/4 mile. These cars are very heavy and need all the help they can get just to get moving. My car is daily driven and I have put around 10,000 miles on it since installing the convertor without any issues.

Charles

nickleman60
06-03-2007, 08:54 PM
Is this going into one of your cars with a 4R70W?.

Charles

yes, it's going in my black '94. although it's not going to be a daily driver is a 3500 stall streetable in these cars, do they make a 3000 stall for our cars? I do want it to launch decent for that stoplight to stoplight or track performance. in that range what's a good converter to get?

rzibilske77
06-03-2007, 08:56 PM
Is this going into one of your cars with a 4R70W? If so I would say you will be much happier with more convertor, because of the lock up clutch there isn't really a downside to going with much higher stall. I installed a 3500 in my car when the engine was still completly stock with just bolt ons and picked up .5 in the 1/4 mile. These cars are very heavy and need all the help they can get just to get moving. My car is daily driven and I have put around 10,000 miles on it since installing the convertor without any issues.

Charles

i didnt know it was that high, i thought u had around 3k........anyhow daily drive and abused.....:eek:

83GT460
06-03-2007, 09:43 PM
yes, it's going in my black '94. although it's not going to be a daily driver is a 3500 stall streetable in these cars, do they make a 3000 stall for our cars? I do want it to launch decent for that stoplight to stoplight or track performance. in that range what's a good converter to get?

No issues at all with the convertor and daily driving. It is possible to use that high of a stall because of the lock up clutch, without that it would be much less user friendly. As Robert said mine is daily driven and and beat on without mercy and it is holding up just fine. In reality my car has become much more reliable since becoming a 12 second car than when it was running 13's. I am running a Circle D convertor which is made down in Houston and they will pretty much make it with any stall you want.

Charles

Dirtyd0g
06-05-2007, 09:47 AM
I agree a marauder converter will probably do exactly what you want to do.
Alan

Pablo94SC
06-05-2007, 11:19 AM
If I understand everything I've learned about torque converters, you don't want to use a converter that stalls more than 500rpm under peak torque. To clarify... if peak torque is 3000rpm, you want to stall around 2400-2500rpm. You can go higher, but you'll be wasting the engines powerband.

PS: The ECU only commands lock-up in 3rd and OD.

Pablo94SC
06-05-2007, 11:20 AM
Yes.................. you will have to change the flexplate which costs around $49.99

Where can I get a flexplate for that cost?

83GT460
06-05-2007, 10:52 PM
If I understand everything I've learned about torque converters, you don't want to use a converter that stalls more than 500rpm under peak torque. To clarify... if peak torque is 3000rpm, you want to stall around 2400-2500rpm. You can go higher, but you'll be wasting the engines powerband.

PS: The ECU only commands lock-up in 3rd and OD.

I don't claim to be an expert on the whole torque convertor subject but I will tell you that his car will definately be quicker with a 3000 or 3500 convertor than it will with a 2400 to 2500 rpm convertor. Also in stock form the ECU calls for lockup in 3rd and OD and thus the reason you get your car tuned and have it lock up in 2nd, 3rd and OD.

Charles

83GT460
06-05-2007, 11:02 PM
I agree a marauder converter will probably do exactly what you want to do.
Alan

Having spoke to you prior to having Circle D build my convertor you led me to believe that a Maurader convertor would not live in stock form with 400 plus lbs/ft of torque which he should clearly have. I believe if I remeber correctly that you said I would need to have the clutch material replaced and some other work done and so I decided it was better for me to just have a convertor built to my specs.

Charles

Dirtyd0g
06-06-2007, 12:11 AM
Under that much power the tune will be critical to keeping the converter together. The clutch will fry if commanded to lock at wot. A good clutch lining in there will certainly help. Ford wanted the clutch to be smooth not strong. I have seen very few SC's that want to be at 3500 stall. Don't get me wrong I don't fear stall at all. 4.6's love it. 3.8's especially SC's don't really benefit from it so much.
Alan

z90sc
06-06-2007, 12:52 AM
Under that much power the tune will be critical to keeping the converter together. The clutch will fry if commanded to lock at wot. A good clutch lining in there will certainly help. Ford wanted the clutch to be smooth not strong. I have seen very few SC's that want to be at 3500 stall. Don't get me wrong I don't fear stall at all. 4.6's love it. 3.8's especially SC's don't really benefit from it so much.
Alan


.....this man knows his stuff,he built the tranny in my MRK 8 and Kieth...you've ridden in my MRK 8.......
z

nickleman60
06-06-2007, 08:38 AM
what is the stall rpm of a stock 4r70w tc? would the marauder tc handle 400 ft/lbs of torque?

Dirtyd0g
06-06-2007, 12:58 PM
what is the stall rpm of a stock 4r70w tc? would the marauder tc handle 400 ft/lbs of torque?

The stock SC converter stalls 1800-2000 the markVIII is 2400-2600 or more with more input torque. The converter itself will handle the power but the clutch may not. As I said the tune will make the difference. Upgrading it to a better lining is a good idea as well.
Alan

nickleman60
06-06-2007, 02:17 PM
The converter itself will handle the power but the clutch may not. As I said the tune will make the difference. Upgrading it to a better lining is a good idea as well.
Alan

so you are saying that the marauder tc as you buy it off the shelf might not hold up? if i need to upgrade the lining i might as well buy a tc that already has the correct lining to handle the torque, any suggestions on a good one to get would be appreciated, my knowledge of tc's is little to none.

Pablo94SC
06-06-2007, 02:52 PM
I don't claim to be an expert on the whole torque convertor subject but I will tell you that his car will definately be quicker with a 3000 or 3500 convertor than it will with a 2400 to 2500 rpm convertor. Also in stock form the ECU calls for lockup in 3rd and OD and thus the reason you get your car tuned and have it lock up in 2nd, 3rd and OD.

Charles


I strongly disagree. A 3000+ stall converter will not make the car accelerate quicker than a 2400 stall converter. You want the converter to stall slightly below peak torque to maximize power output to the wheels during launch. Remember this is an SC, not a small block V8. Allowing the converter to stall past peak torque output is just wasting the SC's low end torque.

Note - A 2400 stall converter is more likely to stall at 2800+ rpm due to the torque output of our motors at the bottom end. This is near perfect for a stock or mildly cammed SC, which is what he appears to have.

In an SC with a big cam, a 3000 stall converter would be fine due to the shift in the torque curve and would really benefit from (need) the addition of 3.73s or shorter rear-end. I noticed you have 4.10s. That helps explain your point of view.

PS: I don't think the ECU can be programmed to lock the converter in 2nd... but I may be wrong.

Dirtyd0g
06-06-2007, 03:11 PM
Note - A 2400 stall converter is more likely to stall at 2800+ rpm due to the torque output of our motors at the bottom end. This is near perfect for a stock or mildly cammed SC, which is what he appears to have.


PS: I don't think the ECU can be programmed to lock the converter in 2nd... but I may be wrong.



It depends on who specs the converter but for the most part that is about right.
I'm not sure if these ecu's can or not either you would probably need to talk to an SCT dealer on that. Dave?

83GT460
06-06-2007, 04:55 PM
I strongly disagree. A 3000+ stall converter will not make the car accelerate quicker than a 2400 stall converter. You want the converter to stall slightly below peak torque to maximize power output to the wheels during launch. Remember this is an SC, not a small block V8. Allowing the converter to stall past peak torque output is just wasting the SC's low end torque.

Note - A 2400 stall converter is more likely to stall at 2800+ rpm due to the torque output of our motors at the bottom end. This is near perfect for a stock or mildly cammed SC, which is what he appears to have.

In an SC with a big cam, a 3000 stall converter would be fine due to the shift in the torque curve and would really benefit from (need) the addition of 3.73s or shorter rear-end. I noticed you have 4.10s. That helps explain your point of view.

PS: I don't think the ECU can be programmed to lock the converter in 2nd... but I may be wrong.


Prior to doing heads and cam in my car it was running 13.50's, with no changes other than going to a 3500 rpm convertor my ET's dropped to 13.07 this is with a stock engine, stock intercooler, 95 blower that I ported, mid length headers and 2.5 inch exhuast, MP inlet, 85 mm T-body, stock injectors, snow injection, 03 model 4R70W, and 4.10's. I use to always shift at 5800 with the stock heads and cam because that is the RPM that made the car it's quickest. It would have gone quicker however the stock injectors were way past maxed out and it was simply out of fuel. I just don't get where you guys think a stock engine is all done at 5000 rpm and that 3.8's don't want to turn any RPM. I guess I will just continue to do what I do because it works and you can just keep believing that it won't but feel free to find a single SC who has gone quicker that my car with stock engine using only bolt ons.

Charles

Dirtyd0g
06-06-2007, 07:45 PM
Prior to doing heads and cam in my car it was running 13.50's, with no changes other than going to a 3500 rpm convertor my ET's dropped to 13.07 this is with a stock engine, stock intercooler, 95 blower that I ported, mid length headers and 2.5 inch exhuast, MP inlet, 85 mm T-body, stock injectors, snow injection, 03 model 4R70W, and 4.10's. I use to always shift at 5800 with the stock heads and cam because that is the RPM that made the car it's quickest. It would have gone quicker however the stock injectors were way past maxed out and it was simply out of fuel. I just don't get where you guys think a stock engine is all done at 5000 rpm and that 3.8's don't want to turn any RPM. I guess I will just continue to do what I do because it works and you can just keep believing that it won't but feel free to find a single SC who has gone quicker that my car with stock engine using only bolt ons.

Charles

For an all out race car stall definately helps the 60 foot times. For a street car or a car on street tires I find it generally doesn't help so much on these cars. You'll just blow the tires off and dig for traction. I never said the stock motor is done at 5000 rpms, but not many will do much above 5500. The low end torque of these engines is impressive thats why I suggest using it instead of going right through it.
Alan

tim
06-06-2007, 10:17 PM
On a fairly stock, not all out for the track you dont need a ton of converter. My car launched great with 2400 stall. Once you start modding the engine a lot more than likely you power and torque curve will move up. Then go with a big converter. untill you go with a cam and heads running much over 5500 rpms is a waste. I have a lot done to my engine and after 6200 its all done. Its only going to do what it will flow thru the heads and exhaust. There has been much talk on this subject in the past.

83GT460
06-06-2007, 10:18 PM
It depends on who specs the converter but for the most part that is about right.
I'm not sure if these ecu's can or not either you would probably need to talk to an SCT dealer on that. Dave?


As Allen said if you are accurate or realistic with the power your car makes and you go to someone who knows what they are doing if you ask for a 2400 you will get pretty close to 2400. For example at Allen's recommendation I went to Chris at Circle D in Houston told him how much power my car is making and voila I have a convertor that stalls just as I wanted 3500 rpm. I also agree that if you don't tune for the new convertor your car may have an improved 60' but no gain in the 1/4 mile, however if you use the convertor to help get the car moving then when the trans shifts to 2nd lock the convertor unlock the convertor for the 2-3 shift then lock it back up in 3rd you will see improvements in both ET and MPH. This is of course assuming traction and enough power to pull the load.

Charles

83GT460
06-06-2007, 10:24 PM
On a fairly stock, not all out for the track you dont need a ton of converter. My car launched great with 2400 stall. Once you start modding the engine a lot more than likely you power and torque curve will move up. Then go with a big converter. untill you go with a cam and heads running much over 5500 rpms is a waste. I have a lot done to my engine and after 6200 its all done. Its only going to do what it will flow thru the heads and exhaust. There has been much talk on this subject in the past.

Did you ever manage to run 1.64 60' times or 13.07 @102 with your stock engine car like my daily driver 4060 lbs car did. There may have been much talk and about this and some of it was obiviously not correct or at least not proven to be correct.

Charles

tim
06-06-2007, 10:25 PM
Charles not to get off subject but how do you like the 4:10 gears? I have 3:73 now with a 3000 stall converter and am think about switching to 4:10.:D

83GT460
06-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Charles not to get off subject but how do you like the 4:10 gears? I have 3:73 now with a 3000 stall converter and am think about switching to 4:10.:D

Tim I like them very well, particularly for a stock engine car that is heavy such as our cars, however if I ever get my car to make any power I will most likely make the switch to less gear as it won't be needed as much to help get the car moving and will allow for more MPH in the 1/4 mile. I am planning to stick with the 4.10's for at least the rest of this year which hopefully will get me into the 11.0 or possibly 10.90's then I will decide what is next.

Charles