DIS vs. Cam shaft sensor

1Fast93

Registered User
I have been doing a lot of research on here concerning the current problems I have been having with my SC. From what I have read, I was very convinced that I needed to replace the DIS module, but I am beginning to second guess my opinion.

I read that if the DIS is bad, there will be NO tach signal sent from the module. MY TACH WORKS!?

I'll have the get the codes again but, I remeber that one of them indicated that primary coil circuit #1 failed. ( I thought this was definitly DIS, since ignition circuits 1, 2, and 3 come from the DIS)

Can only that section of the DIS be bad?? Or is it my Cam shaft sensor??? Very confused?

Thanks guys!

Dave

PS - I will get the other codes for you guys tomorrow afternoon. :D
 
Pull the cam sensor and see if you still have the problems. If you still have the problems with the cam sensor disconnected, it's not the cam sensor.

There is absolutely no known specific way to figure out if the DIS is bad. Basically if you replace it and the problem goes away, that was it.

There are some pinpoint tests to find the DIS as a problem. But most of the time the DIS fails due to some heat related or producing control signals issue. I don't know that it's easy to test for that.
 
In some cases the heatsink compound can be reapplied to the back of the DIS, and make it behave.

Use the best heatsink compound you can get. Check out a computer store for the stuff the computer builders use. I use some stuff called Artic Silver.

Throughly clean and shine up both the metal side of the DIS and the mounting surface.
Apply a thin coating of the heatsink compound--more is not better that an even thin coat. Evenly tighten down the mounting screws, and give it a try. I have seen problems in the cable that the DIS hooks into, but let's hope you don't have to go there.

Good Luck
 
i thought you had a replacement DIS in the mail ??

did u replace all the other sensors you were going to ?
 
Getting Closer ... I hope! (I miss her)

Alright...

I did the Self-Test for the Cam sensor, that Mike told me about.

For those of you that may not know this test: You start the car with the sensor connected and get a feel for how it is running; Then you shut the car off and pull the connector from the sensor; Again you start the car and see if there is any change in the characteristics of the car. If you notice any difference the sensor is BAD.

I performed the test this afternoon, and was very suprised by the outcome. I must have gotten real lucky, because she fired up for me on the first start. After that, it took a few cycles of ON and OFF.

I also pulled some new codes, before I took the sensor out, and they go as follows:

KOEO:
#1) 111 - Pass?
#2) 215 - Ignition System (Distributorless) problem - Coil #1 circuit failure

KOER:
#1) 412 - Cannot control RPM during Engine Run Self-Test -- High RPM test
#2) 116 - Engine Coolant Temperature sensor - signal voltage higher or lower then expected
#3) 136 - Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor - voltage not switching during Engine Run Self-Test. indicates "lean" (bank #2)
#4) 538 - Insufficient RPM changes during Engine Run Self-Test

After the test was over I disconnected the SPOUT and the car seemed to idle much higher, but still sounded rough. ( Computer was still on TEST )
I removed the code reader, with the SPOUT still disconnected and the car began to idle normally, but rough, for a few seconds (5-8) and would the fall very low for the same amount of time. Then the car almost fell on its face untill I connected the SPOUT again. What could this possibly be?

Oh, and another thing. What does it mean when that high pitch whistle goes off when the key is in the ON position? It happens to me quite often, I'll put the key in, sometimes the chime will go off, and turn the key until its to ON. It will chime three or four times, then this really loud annoying whistle will go off until I turn the key. Is it just telling me to start the car?? Does this happen to anyone else?

Thanks Fellas!
Dave
 
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Oh, and another thing. What does it mean when that high pitch whistle goes off when the key is in the ON position? It happens to me quite often, I'll put the key in, sometimes the chime will go off, and turn the key until its to ON. It will chime three or four times, then this really loud annoying whistle will go off until I turn the key. Is it just telling me to start the car?? Does this happen to anyone else?

Thanks Fellas!
Dave

It happens to me too. If you turn the key on and off a few times, the number of chimes will vary with no apparent reason before the continuous sound, except for the first time that you get into the car and the shoulder belt has to move to the B-pillar. If you fasten your lap belt before turning on the ignition you will not hear any chimes, only the long note.
 
...
I also pulled some new codes, before I took the sensor out, and they go as follows:

KOEO:
#1) 111 - Pass?
#2) 215 - Ignition System (Distributorless) problem - Coil #1 circuit failure

KOER:
#1) 412 - Cannot control RPM during Engine Run Self-Test -- High RPM test
#2) 116 - Engine Coolant Temperature sensor - signal voltage higher or lower then expected
#3) 136 - Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor - voltage not switching during Engine Run Self-Test. indicates "lean" (bank #2)
#4) 538 - Insufficient RPM changes during Engine Run Self-Test

did you happen to clear codes before you tested this again? If not, I'd try again after you clear codes. Some of these could be old stored codes.

I believe the 111 means no stored KOEO codes. I'd start checking the connections for your oxy sensor, coolant sensor, and idle air control motor.

My guess with the idle air control error, RPM codes being set, and your idle problems is you have a vacuum leak somewhere that is causing the idle air control motor no end of pain trying to match an idle.
 
I've checked the IAC many times, because I thought it was the problem, but it's in perfect working order. I also thought that I had a vaccum leak, so I went over every line I could get my hands on and I checked all the gaskets affiliated with vaccum. Everything is OK.

And besides, once I disconnected the Cam sensor, the car ran just the way it should. So, if I had a leak or the IAC was bad the car would be surging and running rough.

Yes I have cleared the codes, I have been picking the same ones up consistantly.

I'm really leaning towards my O2's and cam sensor being bad. So, I am ordering a new DIS, Coil, Cam sensor, and Hypertech chip (<--for fun)to see if that will cure the problem. Oh, and a couple O2's if I can find any at a good price. Anyone have any??

Dave

PS - Is bank #2 the passenger side?
 
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I read that if the DIS is bad, there will be NO tach signal sent from the module. MY TACH WORKS!?

I'll have the get the codes again but, I remeber that one of them indicated that primary coil circuit #1 failed. ( I thought this was definitly DIS, since ignition circuits 1, 2, and 3 come from the DIS)

Can only that section of the DIS be bad?? Or is it my Cam shaft sensor??? Very confused?

You have to be careful that you understand the distinction between the DIS (coil pack) and DIS (ignition module). If the ignition module fails, the tach will not work. Or at least not consistently. However, I think that the tach will still work if the coil pack goes bad. I had a code for "Primary circuit #3 failure", and replaced the coil pack, only to have no improvement. It turned out that it was really the ignition module at fault. When I had this problem, my car ran fine most of the time, then almost died while the tach went haywire, then was fine again. Eventually it got worse and died altogether.
 
It happens to me too. If you turn the key on and off a few times, the number of chimes will vary with no apparent reason before the continuous sound, except for the first time that you get into the car and the shoulder belt has to move to the B-pillar. If you fasten your lap belt before turning on the ignition you will not hear any chimes, only the long note.

Speaking of which, what is up with that noise? I never had a car that made that noise before. Maybe it was a 1990 thing, like the brake-start interlock. I believe there was a lot of safety paranoia at the time due to the widely publicized Audi slipping-out-of-park problem.
 
I'm really leaning towards my O2's and cam sensor being bad. So, I am ordering a new DIS, Coil, Cam sensor, and Hypertech chip (<--for fun)to see if that will cure the problem. Oh, and a couple O2's if I can find any at a good price. Anyone have any??

how old are your current O2's ? they are about $40 a piece at auto parts stores.

buy a new cam sensor. it sounds like your problem and is only about $40.

coil packs rarely ever go bad, like i said before.

if when you change the O2's and the cam sensor and it still runs the same, then buy a good used DIS from someone on here. do not waste your money on a $200+ brand new one and have it not be the problem.

and most of all, DO NOT waste your money on a hypertech chip. or any plug and play chip for that matter (jet, hypertech, etc.). they are all crap. an SCT chip can be custom burned for what u have done to the car.

u realize all the parts u listed are about $800 total brand new. dont throw money at the car and hope it magically gets fixed. spend $120 for new O2's and cam sensor and then see where you're at.
 
I'm getting all the parts I listed, other than the O2s for only $75. Amazing deal! Why do you say the Hypertech chip is terrible?? What's wrong with it?

$40 for O2 sensors, I wanna go to the parts store you go to. LOL Cheapest ones I have found went for $55 a peice!
 
hypertech is junk. At best it does nothing. At worst it isn't free and hurts something.

You said after pulling the connection on the cam sensor you still had problems thus if idle can't be maintained, it's a vac leak.

I'm sorry but I just can't follow this anymore.
 
Mike,

It's Ok. I have become a little flustered myself. It was idleing wierd when I pulled the SPOUT sensor. I just wanted to see what it would do.

They car rean GREAT when I disconnected the Cam sensor,

Hope that makes things clearer for you

Dave
 
I'm getting all the parts I listed, other than the O2s for only $75. Amazing deal! Why do you say the Hypertech chip is terrible?? What's wrong with it?

$40 for O2 sensors, I wanna go to the parts store you go to. LOL Cheapest ones I have found went for $55 a peice!

autozone and advance auto are the cheapest iv'e found for O2's
 
Speaking of which, what is up with that noise? I never had a car that made that noise before. Maybe it was a 1990 thing, like the brake-start interlock. I believe there was a lot of safety paranoia at the time due to the widely publicized Audi slipping-out-of-park problem.
The continuous high-frequency tone is the upshift indicator tone that sounds when the engine rpms are too high for the chosen gear. The EEC signals the warning chime module to make this sound and also turns on the upshift indicator light in the instrument cluster. The EEC cannot turn on the sound and the light independently of each other because it uses only one wire for both, either by design or necessity - I have no idea which. Thus, when the ignition key is turned to the ON position and all the instrument cluster warning lights (apart from the brake warning light) automatically turn on so that the driver can visually verify that they work, the upshift tone will sound since the upshift light is on. The upshift tone is overridden for a few seconds by the seatbelt warning chime if the seatbelts are not fastened, and by the door ajar chime until the door is closed.
 
MMMM... It all makes sense now... Damn warning bell. :eek:

Can somebody take a picture of the what the instrument cluster's indicator lights are suppost to look like when you put key to ON, please? Just want to make sure everything comes on.

Thanks!
 
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