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rickbtbird
08-07-2007, 10:43 PM
Hey folks, Iím looking for some help on how to inspect a used motor for serviceability. I want to know if itís worth putting some money into for a backup motor.

Some guy 65 miles for me had an SC motor and blower on Ebay which I won for $180.00. He claimed it has 47k on it when the car got rear ended about a year and a half ago. I went and picked it up on Sunday got it home and into an engine stand and started taking things off. Valve cover and intake manifold are off along with the rocker arms, push rods and roller lifters.

There's a lot of tarnish on the upper side of the heads and some sludgy looking oil buildup in some of the deeper areas. I have another set of head that have over 200k on them that look cleaner but after 18 months of sitting on a cart I'm sure it had time to build up crap like that.

The blower appears to be fine. The bearings sound ok although it does have a tiny bit of play in the coupler but not bad. I cracked it open and there was some black residue around the inside of the snout housing but nothing out of the ordinary.

So I'm looking for some suggestions, next steps and inspection points. The heads and oil pan are still on the block. Whatís next and what do I need to certify that the motor is worth rebuilding?

XxSlowpokexX
08-07-2007, 10:54 PM
dependant on the condition of things such as the EGR and type of oil used a relatively low mile engine such as that can have builup.

My advice is to pull upper intake off look for buildup in their. Also while your at it change the head gaskets..With the heads off you can check to see what the bores look like. No reason to rebuild if you dont have too

rickbtbird
08-08-2007, 12:24 AM
dependant on the condition of things such as the EGR and type of oil used a relatively low mile engine such as that can have builup.

My advice is to pull upper intake off look for buildup in their. Also while your at it change the head gaskets..With the heads off you can check to see what the bores look like. No reason to rebuild if you dont have too

I've already got the intake off along with the rods and lifters. There's build up on the rods but the lifters look ok and none seem to be collapsed. So far nothing looks burnt. Maybe Iíll pull the heads off over the weekend. I may as well anyway. Any motor thatís been sitting on a cart for 18 months I guess could have a corroded head gasket just waiting to be blown.

XxSlowpokexX
08-08-2007, 12:31 AM
snap some pictures

Roadhawg
08-08-2007, 07:07 AM
I would roll the engine over pull off the oil pan and check main and rod bearings..............



__________________
2003 Mustang Mach1
1995 Thunderbird LX 4.6; 4R70W w/Jmod, 8.8 3.27 Tracloc
1995 Mustang 4.2; M90 Supercharger/15%OD, 4R70W w/Jmod, 8.8 3.73 Tracloc

Mike8675309
08-08-2007, 04:06 PM
The only way to know if it's worth it is to break it down. Disassembly, inspect for cracks in the block. then have the block cleaned, pressure test the heads, and all the other machine steps you would do prior to a rebuild. The machine shop will tell you if there is anything wrong.

the-big-e
08-08-2007, 05:54 PM
I would roll the engine over pull off the oil pan and check main and rod bearings

I would suggest the doing the same thing.....

I have seen quite a few 3.8's loose bearings after a head gasket job....

Better safe than sorry and now would be a good time to do that.....:D

rickbtbird
08-08-2007, 06:33 PM
I would suggest the doing the same thing.....

I have seen quite a few 3.8's loose bearings after a head gasket job....

Better safe than sorry and now would be a good time to do that.....:D

I got the pan off now. I'll be reading through the inspection process after supper. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

XxSlowpokexX
08-08-2007, 09:45 PM
The only way to know if it's worth it is to break it down. Disassembly, inspect for cracks in the block. then have the block cleaned, pressure test the heads, and all the other machine steps you would do prior to a rebuild. The machine shop will tell you if there is anything wrong.

Yah I generally rebuild or tear apart every engine I buy that is suppssed to be good..:rolleyes:

Seriously though. In an ideal world with unlimited funds and time he should do that. If hes trying to save a buck that isnt the way to go about it. So you either trust the guy with what he said or you rebuild.

Sure a rebuild is always the safe bet. If you want to spend that extra cash and time by all means do so. There are never any 100% garuntees with anything used.

I say if you didnt hav ethat milkshake in the engine when you drain the oil chances are your ok

rickbtbird
08-08-2007, 10:46 PM
Inital Crank Shaft Inspection:
I removed the bolts on the crankshaft main bearing caps and removed the caps (see attached photo). I rotated the crank shaft 360 and the journals are smooth. There are no lines, cuts gouges, or corrosion on the crank shaft bearing surfaces. The end caps look okay but you be the judge.

I guess the next step would be to remove the end caps off the rod bearings and inspect those?

Young-SC-Owner
08-08-2007, 11:04 PM
why not do it right the first time and beef it up a lil bit:D

rickbtbird
08-08-2007, 11:27 PM
why not do it right the first time and beef it up a lil bit:D

I'm open for sugestions. What's there to beef up?

the-big-e
08-09-2007, 08:55 AM
Those mains don't look that bad.....

I've seen worse.......:rolleyes:

The crank looks to be in very good condition......:cool:

Go ahead and put some new bearings in it......

Make sure you get bearings for the SC 3.8 and not the LX 3.8

There is a differance in size on the rear main of the SC 3.8

rickbtbird
08-09-2007, 10:18 AM
Those mains don't look that bad.....

I've seen worse.......:rolleyes:

The crank looks to be in very good condition......:cool:

Go ahead and put some new bearings in it......

Make sure you get bearings for the SC 3.8 and not the LX 3.8

There is a differance in size on the rear main of the SC 3.8

Thanks for the advice, Should I do the one on the piston rods too and do you have part numbers or recommended vendor bearing?
This is what I found on RockAuto
SEALED POWER Part # 7086MA
A-Series aluminum bearings $55.00

the-big-e
08-09-2007, 04:52 PM
I would do rods and mains at the same time.....

Check with Victor at www.SpinningWheels-SC.com for the bearings.....

Mike8675309
08-09-2007, 06:41 PM
Call around. Felpro makes a bottom end kit that may be cheaper to get if you just want standard bearings without upgrading. Then you can get all the stuff in one box.

rickbtbird
08-09-2007, 09:20 PM
So I found a spun bearing on connecting rod number 3. I don't have a 2-3" outside micrometers (got stolen) but I did hit it with a cheep pair of calipers and the journal could be under size and a bit out of round. I'll know for sure after I get a micrometer. My sources tell me that the Connecting Rod Journal Diameter should be 2.3103-2.3111 in. I showed 2.300-2.280 but I don't think I was getting the center with these cheep-o calipers. If it is indeed undersize and out of round what's my options?

XxSlowpokexX
08-09-2007, 09:27 PM
45,000 miles eh..Thats not cool at all. You can send the rod out and get it refurbished. How does the crank look??

rickbtbird
08-09-2007, 09:44 PM
45,000 miles eh..Thats not cool at all. You can send the rod out and get it refurbished. How does the crank look??

If I'm not saying this correctly I'm sorry. I'm a want-a-be when it comes to engine repair.

When I said the Connecting Rod Journal Diameter should be 2.3103-2.3111" I was talking about the crank journal where the connecting rod cap bolts up to with the bearing insert. If I had to get a crank rod and piston, that would be easy and not that expensive. If the journal diameter on #3 on the crank is out of specification, I'm not sure that I can use the crank or get oversized bearings or run with a 5 cylinder...:p
Oh btw, how do I know if I have the steel or the iron crank?

Mike8675309
08-10-2007, 08:47 AM
It is highly unlikely that it has a cast crank. the parting line on the crank is the easiest way to tell. A cast crank will have a very thin almost sharp parting line. A forged crank will have a relatively wide parting line.

It looks like Federal Mogul has rod bearings in oversizes from .25mm to 100mm.
You can use the make-model lookup to find just about anything they make that will fit your car. Then you can use the part number they give you and look it up at www.rockauto.com to order it.
http://www.federalmogul.com/en/AftermarketSolutions/NorthAmerica/TechnicianResources/Catalogs/

the-big-e
08-10-2007, 08:50 AM
Oh btw, how do I know if I have the steel or the iron crank?

I was wondering about the same thing.....

I have two cranks here at my shop......

One came out of an 89 XR-7 and the other came out of a 91 SC.....

I didn't tag them and don't remember which one is which.....:rolleyes:

XxSlowpokexX
08-10-2007, 05:01 PM
Now does this appear to be oversized because of a certain metal buildup on it? You may need to get that crank cut and a refurbished rod

rickbtbird
08-10-2007, 08:39 PM
Now does this appear to be oversized because of a certain metal buildup on it? You may need to get that crank cut and a refurbished rod

??? :confused: ??? I'm trying to measure the crankshaft Connecting Rod Journal Diameter. The information I got for the 1995 is 2.3103-2.3111". Is it the same for the 89? I have a book for the 90 and 95 only.

rickbtbird
08-10-2007, 11:01 PM
I got the heads off and pulled out the piston on #3. That really all I got time for tonight as I had a long drive today to and from North Jersey.
Here are a few more pics. Seems like thereís more carbon build up then I would think on an SC motor. With the spun bearing on #3, one has to wonder if the driver ran regular gas in it.
Also I complained to the seller about the motor and he sent me a rebate.. LOL. If it were not for the blower, still more then I would have paid to take out his trash.

the-big-e
08-11-2007, 09:18 AM
The heads seem to look like they are in good condition....

However, that doesn't look like a 45,000 mile motor.....:confused:

Maybe 145,000 mile motor.....:eek:

To be on the safe side, I would perform a complete overhaul on it....

At least you got some of your money back....:o

rickbtbird
08-11-2007, 10:04 AM
I was able to get a better measurement of the crankrod journal that had a spun bearing and compair it to a good side.
The one on the right (the bad one) is undersized. It's also out of round by .019. It measures 2.301 on the high side and 2.281 on the low side. The one on the left (the good one) measures 2.310 to 2.312.

So what's my optinions here:

Replace the crank
Have the crank machined and buy bigger bearings
Just buy bigger bearings and put it back together
Do something I haven't thought of yet
Scrap the project and go back to planting some flowers in the front yard.

Mike8675309
08-11-2007, 10:14 AM
What are the plans for the motor. Stock or Wild? Stock, I'd just get the bearing journal ground for the proper oversize and move along.

If wild, I'm not sure. I guess I'd try to find a crank that is in better shape before taking a chance.

rickbtbird
08-11-2007, 10:29 AM
What are the plans for the motor. Stock or Wild? Stock, I'd just get the bearing journal ground for the proper oversize and move along.

If wild, I'm not sure. I guess I'd try to find a crank that is in better shape before taking a chance.

I was thinking not much more then stock with some mild porting and a few bolt on enhancement. So If I get the journals ground, should I have them all done the same size? Who does that kind of work?

XR7 Dave
08-11-2007, 10:40 AM
If the journal is already .020" undersized then the crank is scrap. The block would make a good core for a 4.3L stroker. I would not bother rebuilding it unless you can find another crank for about $50.

rickbtbird
08-11-2007, 02:39 PM
If the journal is already .020" undersized then the crank is scrap. The block would make a good core for a 4.3L stroker. I would not bother rebuilding it unless you can find another crank for about $50.

Crank for $50.00. Is that for the 4.3L stoker or for stock? Either way that's going to be hard to find. I'm not into drag racing so a highly modified strip runner isn't what I'm after.

I was thinking about just rebuilding it for my own learning experiences but if you don't think it's worth it then maybe I'll just sell it for parts.

Smutty
08-13-2007, 08:56 PM
I have crank,
I can drop it off at your house 7:30 pm tommorow
you inspect before you pay me $150
sound high? no shipping and inspection before you buy is better than any other $50 crank from California. and you don't have to pull it out of the motor cause its out already!
-Smutty
(I get paid $8.32 per hour net at my job, so I need money(after 401k and health))

rickbtbird
08-13-2007, 09:36 PM
I have crank,
I can drop it off at your house 7:30 pm tommorow
you inspect before you pay me $150
sound high? no shipping and inspection before you buy is better than any other $50 crank from California. and you don't have to pull it out of the motor cause its out already!
-Smutty
(I get paid $8.32 per hour net at my job, so I need money(after 401k and health))

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I have several other inspection points I have to do before I get around to the crank again. Iím waiting until I can get a bore gage and a couple of outside micrometers.