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Darth
08-11-2007, 11:07 AM
My ABS does not work but my normal brakes work just fine, no hard pedal. My yellow antilock light is on but not my red brake light. I have checked every thing and all seems well except the controller. My code reader doesn't seem to work on the rear connector, but a local mechanic told me he got a code 11 which indicates the controller. A previous mechanic told me the 30A fuse under the hood for the controller was blown (he demolished it trying to get it out without unbolting it). Jumping the terminals didn't help, nor did it solve anything.

I purchased a new (used) controller from Ebay and installed it with a new 30A fuse and I still have the antilock light staring me in the face. After questioning the Ebay seller about the controller, he answered:

"THE CONTROLLER IS GOOD.I HAVE A 95 LINCOLN THAT IS DOING THE SAME THING AND IM TOLD THE DEALER IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN RE-SET IT. AND KNOCK OUT THE LIGHT .SOMETHING ABOUT THE FEDERAL LAWS OR SOME B.S.AUTO ZONE AND ADVANCE AUTO SAID THE SAME THING."

I have never heard any one on this forum say anything like this. Any comments?

TbirdSCFan
08-11-2007, 12:26 PM
The respondents are clueless and guessing which, IMO, is worse than just saying "I don't know" However, they are probably correct in that the controller is good.

Your accumulator is weak. It has enough capacity to provide power assist, but not enough to hold/cycle the ABS. Order a new one, never used, and the problem will go away. :)

Darth
08-11-2007, 04:11 PM
Your accumulator is weak. It has enough capacity to provide power assist, but not enough to hold/cycle the ABS. Order a new one, never used, and the problem will go away. :)

Are you saying just the accumulator, or the pump and motor and...?
Is there a way of testing this? And where do you buy a "new one, never used"?

fturner
08-11-2007, 04:24 PM
What year?

TbirdSCFan
08-11-2007, 06:07 PM
Are you saying just the accumulator, or the pump and motor and...?
Is there a way of testing this? And where do you buy a "new one, never used"?Yup. The pump, motor, switch, relay, are all OK. If they weren't, you'd have no power brakes. You can order a new accumulator from Ford, or prior (http://www.priorreman.com) remanufacturing. Although someone said recently they were on back order. Prior sells them cheaper, but Ford would probably have it right away.

There is a way to test the accumulator, but its an involved procedure requiring some special connectors. I've been through this problem a number of times, so I'd say your chances of it not being the accumulator are about 1%.

Darth
08-11-2007, 06:40 PM
What year?

1992 Thunderbird SC

Mike8675309
08-12-2007, 10:32 AM
Darth,

Check and see if the pump keeps running when you turn the car off. place your hand on the accumulator and see if it's running.

If the pump isn't running all the time and you have assist, that means that:
#1 - pump is working
#2 - Pump relay is working
#3 - high pressure switch is working
#4 - Accumulator is working

That leaves inputs and voltages. You really need to stop by a shop that can pull the codes. Otherwise you'll be chasing your tail.

the-big-e
08-12-2007, 11:05 AM
I've seen this problem before with my SC.....

My yellow Anti-Lock light seems to come on and go off when ever it feels like it and I have replaced the computer with a known working one and it didn't solve my problem....:confused:

I don't think your problem is the accumulator.....

But it is 15 years old and it's just a safety maintenance thing to go ahead and replace it before things get really bad......

I would check the connections on all 4 of your ABS sensors.....

You can also check for continuity to verify the sensors are working correctly.....

Or you can ditch the ABS system all together and go with a conventional braking system.....:D

Darth
08-12-2007, 11:50 AM
Darth,

Check and see if the pump keeps running when you turn the car off. place your hand on the accumulator and see if it's running.

If the pump isn't running all the time and you have assist, that means that:
#1 - pump is working
#2 - Pump relay is working
#3 - high pressure switch is working
#4 - Accumulator is working

That leaves inputs and voltages. You really need to stop by a shop that can pull the codes. Otherwise you'll be chasing your tail.

OK. First thing in the morning before starting engine, after turning on ignition, pump runs about 15 seconds and turns off. Pressing on brake pedal, pump runs for about 2 seconds and turns off. Also, red brake light comes on for about 1 second (Before I changed the controller this didn't use to happen).

After running engine, and shutting off, pump does not go on unless brake pedal is depressed.

Before changing the controller, a mechanic told me he got a code 11 (replace controller), but that he couldn't diagnose any further without a breakout box which he didn't have.

Past history of the car.
For many years the yellow "antilock brake light" would occasionally come on. Some times for only a few minutes, and sometimes for a long time. This happen every once in a while and sometime for months would not. By skid testing, I verified that when the light was on, that I did not in fact have anti lock function. Finally, this year, the light came on and stayed on.

As stated at the beginning of this thread, my brakes work fine otherwise.

sail7seas
08-12-2007, 01:40 PM
1. If it is intermittent, perhaps an electrical contact is behaving funny.:D
Maybe hitting all the brake circuit electrical plugs with contact cleaner
then coat/cover contact plugs with dielectric grease.

2. Attached are Brake self tests codes.

Buena suerte.

birds4us
08-12-2007, 02:01 PM
If your red brake lamp comes on when you initialy hit the brake normally, I would say put an accumulator on first.

Mike8675309
08-12-2007, 03:25 PM
If the red brake light and amber abs light can be triggered by you pressing the brake pedal once, then you have an accumulator that is bad.

If the amber ABS light stays on after the red brake light goes out, the ABS computer had identified a fault and will not operate. You will need to find a mechanic to pull the codes. I'm pretty sure any OBDI diagnostic tool can pull them.

Darth
08-13-2007, 09:37 AM
If the red brake light and amber abs light can be triggered by you pressing the brake pedal once, then you have an accumulator that is bad.

If the amber ABS light stays on after the red brake light goes out, the ABS computer had identified a fault and will not operate. You will need to find a mechanic to pull the codes. I'm pretty sure any OBDI diagnostic tool can pull them.

1. As stated above, the amber abs light comes on as soon as ignition is turned on and stays on. The red brake light comes on for about 1 second and then goes out when the brake pedal is depressed.

2. I have a code reader which works on the main (under hood) connector, but gives no codes from the rear ABS connector. The only mechanic that was able to get a code from the rear, told me he got a code 11.

NOTE: This brings up the question of why I can't get any codes from the ABS connector (right rear trunk) with my reader. As stated, it works perfectly on front, but does nothing when attached to the rear. It is a SunPro (now Actron) model CP9015,

TbirdSCFan
08-13-2007, 12:17 PM
If the pump isn't running all the time and you have assist, that means that:

#1 - pump is working
#2 - Pump relay is working
#3 - high pressure switch is working
#4 - Accumulator is working

Correct with the exception of item #4. Think of the accumulator as a hydraulic capacitor. Over time, it looses capacity. It can have enough capacity to provide assist, but not enough to cycle the ABS more than about 1 time. :cool:

If the amber light stays on constantly, then its worthwhile to pull codes. Also, like DIS's and certain sensors, it never hurts to have a spare ABS computer to test with.

TbirdSCFan
08-13-2007, 12:22 PM
The only mechanic that was able to get a code from the rear, told me he got a code 11. Thats a pass code. Means the computer thinks nothing's wrong.

Darth
08-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Thats a pass code. Means the computer thinks nothing's wrong.

No, it's a "replace controller" on the ABS . On the main computer, it's "system passes".

S_Mazza
08-13-2007, 03:00 PM
I am not sure, but I do not think that a weak accumulator will set a code. Mine got really weak and I had to replace it. But it never set the ABS light on full-time. It would only flash (along with the red brake light) when I stepped on the brake pedal.

Darth
08-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Has anybody successfully pulled a code from the ABS controller, and if so, what make and model code reader did you use?

birds4us
08-13-2007, 05:32 PM
I don't think you can use a generic code reader to pull the ABS codes from the ABS module.

the-big-e
08-13-2007, 06:04 PM
Do they even make a code reader for the ABS system......:confused:

I am sure there are a few, collecting dust, in some Ford warehouse......:(

birds4us
08-13-2007, 06:08 PM
I have one collecting dust here too.

Mike8675309
08-13-2007, 08:28 PM
If my 90 is around tomorrow I'll try my equus on it. I know the standard code readers won't work on the 93+ ABS systems.

Darth
08-13-2007, 11:01 PM
I have one collecting dust here too.

So what kind is it?

All this time everyone said any OBII reader would work. And I keep getting told that the only way I can figure out what is wrong with my system is to pull the codes. Now it seems no one has done it because the code readers won't work (mine sure doesn't. It just stares at me with it's unblinking light).:(

This is getting very frustrating.

birds4us
08-13-2007, 11:12 PM
The one I have is not portable. It is called a SBDS.


http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78701

the-big-e
08-14-2007, 12:12 AM
I've got to bring Black Betty up to you so you can hook her up and see whats wrong with her......

Darth
08-14-2007, 10:21 AM
If my 90 is around tomorrow I'll try my equus on it. I know the standard code readers won't work on the 93+ ABS systems.

Mike, if you get a chance to do that, please let me know if it works. I have been eying an equus 3145 to replace my "beeps and flashing light" reader anyway. Mine is a 92 which should be the same.

sail7seas
08-14-2007, 10:52 AM
Post #10 in the attachments is from my 1990SC shop manual, pages 12-32-31 & 12-32-32.
It shows a Super Star II, I googled it, and it is a OBD I testor.
(I've never checked codes myself)

I recently cleaned all plugs with contact spray cleaner & put dielectric connector grease on all plugs,
and it seems to have stopped intermittent yellow light, but to early to say for sure.

TbirdSCFan
08-14-2007, 11:58 AM
I recently cleaned all plugs with contact spray cleaner & put dielectric connector grease on all plugs,
and it seems to have stopped intermittent yellow light, but to early to say for sure. Plugs and wires won't throw a code. You have something else to look for. Do a search in the members area on pulling codes and read up. Its also covered in the Haynes manual but isn't quite as clear.

FWIW, I don't own a code reader, I use a paper clip for all my computer tests and readouts. I do this a part of normal maintenance. The paper clip should work with the ABS as well, but I've already provided my $.02 on the subject. :rolleyes:

sail7seas
08-14-2007, 01:22 PM
>Plugs and wires won't throw a code.<

You are probably right, but I greased them for peace of mind.
I got the idea from the shop manual, where there are to numerous continuity tests
of male & female plugs with pins/circuits, that I can forgo the pleasure of checking.:p
To clarify these are the electrical plugs that go into the ABS unit, harness plugs,
and plugs the go into relays, and the huge plug that's into the ABS computer in the trunk tray.
But it could be a bad ground too, but so far NO intermittent ABS light.

On another subject my ABS computer (replaced 7 years ago) has a sticker on it, where it is written this side up,
so I flipped it over per sticker, last weekend. (another intermittent grasp for a straw) fingers crossed.

TbirdSCFan
08-14-2007, 02:59 PM
You are probably right, but I greased them for peace of mind.

On another subject my ABS computer (replaced 7 years ago) has a sticker on it, where it is written this side up,
so I flipped it over per sticker, last weekend. (another intermittent grasp for a straw) fingers crossed. Oh.. I thought you actually were talking about your Spark plugs and Wires.. :confused: which is why I mentioned the no code part...

On the ABS, there is a chance there is a "blah-blah solenoid unresponsive blah-blah" code description that could indicate a wiring or connector problem. :)

My ABS computers work just fine, but all have the stickers facing down.. :rolleyes: Go figure.

Darth
08-14-2007, 05:36 PM
>On another subject my ABS computer (replaced 7 years ago) has a sticker on it, where it is written this side up,
so I flipped it over per sticker, last weekend. (another intermittent grasp for a straw) fingers crossed.

How did you do that? I tried when I put the new (?) controller in, and the wires to the connector are dressed (short vs long) so that I couldn't turn the connector over. So I gave up and put it back in with label down???????

S_Mazza
08-14-2007, 06:25 PM
Mine's upside down too. Go figure.

sail7seas
08-14-2007, 06:26 PM
The connector had a plastic 'U' clip turning the wire bundle the wrong direction (to flip box over).
So I removed the 'U' clip, redirected/tugged the wires enough to turn it over.
The wire bundle was not long enough to reinstall the 'U' clip.
(I imagine another case where FORD manufacturing does not communicate with fabrication/engineering)

Mike8675309
08-14-2007, 08:10 PM
Damn, well it was supposed to work based on member threads I found but I tested with my Innova 3145 and it just sat there and did nothing on my 90.

Oh well, find a dealer and have them pull the codes.

Darth
08-15-2007, 10:23 AM
Damn, well it was supposed to work based on member threads I found but I tested with my Innova 3145 and it just sat there and did nothing on my 90.

Oh well, find a dealer and have them pull the codes.

Here's the scoop direct from Equus:

"Dear Customer,

All of our code readers are designed to read the powertrain system that turns on the check engine light. The powertrain system on OBD2 vehicles have to follow certain rules, where the manufacture still uses whatever they want for the other systems. Our readers will not access the ABS, Air Bags or body codes. To read and erase these codes you will need a high end scan tool with the correct software for your vehicle.

- Technical Support "

I contacted the only two dealers close to me and they said they don't have the equipment to do that any more. Screwed, I guess?

sail7seas
08-15-2007, 10:38 AM
>...erase these codes you will need a high end scan tool...<
Note to self... 90SC shop manual BOGUS on how to erase code
written at the bottom of both page 12-32-22 and 12-32-21 (ref.post#10,27)
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28029&d=1186940205

S_Mazza
08-15-2007, 11:52 AM
Here's the scoop direct from Equus:

"Dear Customer ...The powertrain system on OBD2 vehicles have to follow certain rules, where the manufacture still uses whatever they want for the other systems. ..."



All SCs are OBD-I. So they are not even talking about the correct system.

TbirdSCFan
08-15-2007, 12:26 PM
All SCs are OBD-I. So they are not even talking about the correct system. Not exactly.. early models preceeding OBD-II are EEC-IV and possibly EEC-V. (there is no such thing as OBD-I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Board_Diagnostics)). OBD-II became a standard around 1994. In any case, we already know that they aren't OBD-II :rolleyes:

birds4us
08-15-2007, 06:12 PM
>...erase these codes you will need a high end scan tool...<
Note to self... 90SC shop manual BOGUS on how to erase code
written at the bottom of both page 12-32-22 and 12-32-21 (ref.post#10,27)
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28029&d=1186940205

What do you mean? When I read that, it is refering to using the Super Star tester to erase codes

Mike8675309
08-15-2007, 07:05 PM
Super Star II Tester apparently is valuable then. Last one found on E-bay went for $175.

sail7seas
08-15-2007, 07:43 PM
What do you mean? When I read that, it is refering to using the Super Star tester to erase codes

"...and the vehicle is driven above 25 mph."

Darth
08-16-2007, 11:12 AM
I found someone who said that with the European Ford Granada ABS units (Teves Mk II and IV) grounding the STI connector to ground would cause the ABS amber light to flash the codes.

According to the picture in the Service manual, with the angles of the connector facing up, the socket at the top (right) is ground. The one directly below is the Trigger (STI) and the one to the left is the Output (STO). I tried grounding both with a paper clip to the ground socket and a separate connection to an external ground, and did NOT get a flashing light when I turned on the ignition (Just my steady amber eye staring at me malevolently).

TbirdSCFan
08-16-2007, 11:37 AM
I found someone who said that with the European Ford Granada ABS units (Teves Mk II and IV) grounding the STI connector to ground would cause the ABS amber light to flash the codes.

According to the picture in the Service manual, with the angles of the connector facing up, the socket at the top (right) is ground. The one directly below is the Trigger (STI) and the one to the left is the Output (STO). I tried grounding both with a paper clip to the ground socket and a separate connection to an external ground, and did NOT get a flashing light when I turned on the ignition (Just my steady amber eye staring at me malevolently). Holding the connector with the short side facing up, try the upper right pin, of the row with 2 pins, to the separate lead.. no separate lead you say... then run a length of wire from the actual EEC test harness separate lead (1 pin on a wire) to the upper right pin in the ABS test harness. Then key on (no start) and see if anything happens. :) Unless you've seen a wiring diagram, don't assume that the lead is a ground. I suppose you could use a VOM to check things out before you try it if you want to verify that.

Also, check out this article (http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/eecivtest.html). Scroll about 1/2 way down to see the diagram of the EEC harness. The article is good, but has some discrepencies in terminology.. the harness diagram is accurate. You do not need the volt meter hooked up to STO. Here's another slighty better diagram (http://www.thorssell.net/hbook/eectest.html) with how to decode the pulse train.

Darth
08-16-2007, 12:39 PM
Holding the connector with the short side facing up, try the upper right pin, of the row with 2 pins, to the separate lead.. no separate lead you say... then run a length of wire from the actual EEC test harness separate lead (1 pin on a wire) to the upper right pin in the ABS test harness. Then key on (no start) and see if anything happens. :) Unless you've seen a wiring diagram, don't assume that the lead is a ground. I suppose you could use a VOM to check things out before you try it if you want to verify that.

Also, check out this article (http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/eecivtest.html). Scroll about 1/2 way down to see the diagram of the EEC harness. The article is good, but has some discrepencies in terminology.. the harness diagram is accurate. You do not need the volt meter hooked up to STO. Here's another slighty better diagram (http://www.thorssell.net/hbook/eectest.html) with how to decode the pulse train.

These diagrams are for the EEC IV connector and do not match up with the Ford Service Manual for the ABS connector. According to the Manual, the upper right pin is ground. According to my VOM, it is indeed ground. The trigger is the one right below it.

See the attachments on post #10 by Sail7Seas in this thread.

Darth
03-14-2008, 03:37 PM
I am sorry to bump this old post, but after finally getting my new accumulator and installing it, I am still staring at the dreaded yellow light. I definitely needed the accumulator as I could only get one hard application of the brakes before the red light would flash. Now I get lots of pumps with ignition off, before hard pedal.

I cannot find anyone nearby that can read the codes. Any new ideas? :confused:

btw, the new accumulators don't have a allen socket in the top, only a hex at the bottom which is absolutely impossible to get a wrench within 50 feet of. Since it seals with an "O" ring, I relied on my younger son's strong grip to tighten by hand.

S_Mazza
03-14-2008, 05:01 PM
I just tightened it by hand and I was fine. You shouldn't have a problem. As for the codes, I don't know.

Mike8675309
03-14-2008, 05:58 PM
If you get consistent assist now, but still have a light, it's probably a wheel sensor. So many of the scan tools can do Ford DLC and ABS, you should be able to find someone that can read it. Just tell them to check their system they might not have ever tried to scan an abs system.

Macros
10-01-2008, 12:41 PM
Does anyone have a step by step process on replacing the full ABS unit on a 1990 SC? At 180,000 miles, mine finally went. I have another unit, and will be undertaking this project this weekend.

I would also appreciate any tips you guys may have picked up through the years to save time, bloddy nuckles, and excessive swearing/drinking during this process. :)

Thanks!

TbirdSCFan
10-01-2008, 01:05 PM
I suggest you remove the dash lower panels + steering column for much easier access to the studs holding the hydraulic unit to the firewall. Also, remove both wiper arms, and then the driveside windshield cowling.

Also to keep rounding off to a minumum, use a flare nut wrench and spray some penetrating oil onto the line fittings. If you don't have a flare nut wrench.. go buy one.

The rest is rather straight forward. Do a search on brake bleeding to find out the correct way to bleed the lines.

sd_iconoclast
06-29-2009, 06:45 PM
Per the thread that I started before I saw this one, EQUUS has told me that their INNOVA 3143 code reader will read the ABS codes. Unfortunately, they do not make it any more. I checked on ebay and found about ten for sale at about $20 each. I have ordered one and will post my results.

srobalino
05-24-2010, 03:46 PM
were you able to read the codes - if so what did you get? - I have the same exact problem (ligth always on)

sd_iconoclast
05-24-2010, 04:15 PM
Sorry, I forgot to follow up.
I bought the code reader (Innova 3143).
While it clearly claims to read the Ford ABS codes, I was unable to get it o work.
Maybe there is something wrong with my controller

srobalino
05-25-2010, 05:23 PM
try removing the relay diode... it is a small square device connected by two wires hanging very close to the ABS control module connector ...and then see if you can read the codes

sd_iconoclast
05-25-2010, 05:35 PM
I will try it

srobalino
05-30-2010, 04:05 PM
I got the innova reader to work with my ABS controller - the critical item to make it work is for the abs main power relay to be operational dont worry about removing the diode - after I got the relay wiring fixed , now my innova reader works - and im getting a code 21

Mike8675309
05-30-2010, 04:33 PM
and im getting a code 21

From this site, this info:

21 - Main Valve (Disconnect main 2 Pin Plug on Hydraulic Actuator Assembly & measure resistance. 2 to 5.5 Ohms, service cable harness, any other reading replace Actuation Assembly) (http://www.35thatr.org/Tips/ABS.htm)

srobalino
05-30-2010, 04:41 PM
...I checked the resistance - it is 4.3 ohms ....something else is bothering the controller, but I have not found any documentation on it anywhere

XR7 Dave
02-19-2012, 11:16 PM
Older thread, but anyone find a solution to the "code 21"? I have gone through the exact same steps and ended up at the exact same spot. Everything works but the dagone light is on and code 21. WTH?

XR7 Dave
02-20-2012, 12:52 AM
I posted in this thread because there is some good info here and I figured even if no one could help with my problem, maybe I could add to it or with it being a newer thread it might help someone else find the info when they have a similar problem.

Well I found resolution finally. :rolleyes:

We checked everything very thoroughly step by step and in the end the constant yellow ABS light can be triggered by a couple things.

First we eliminated the main control valve, even though we were getting code 21. The valve read 4.1 ohms. So we checked continuity from the valve back to the ABS module and that was good. We checked ground at the valve also. That was good. I went further and connected an auxiliary ground to the battery just to be sure.

The other way the light can be turned on is if the power relay isn't working. Not the pump relay, the power relay. I checked that, and not only was the relay working but we verified power back at the module. If there is power at the module, then this circuit cannot set the light because it is only capable of sending power to the light via the diode circuit.

So we have eliminated the only ways that the light can be triggered except one - the processor. The funny thing is, we started with a car that had a bad accumulator, bad relay, and disconnected (unbeknownst to us) rear sensor leads, and added to that a bad processor. I thought I had that one nipped in the bud when I went over to SWB and snagged the processor out of that car. Same problem.

WTH?

Then, all of the sudden it hit me - SWB used to have an ABS light on too!! It's been so long since that car ran I had forgotten. So we went to another car (good thing to have lots of SC's around) and got a known working ABS module to test. Bingo!

Man, after about 6 hours of diagnosis and parts changing we finally got the light to go out!

So there you have it. If your relays are good, your main valve ohms out correctly, your grounds are good, and the light is still on (on all the time steady) then you might have a bad processor. That's what this one was. Keep in mind that after we fixed all the other issues the brakes work wonderfully, it's just that the darn light was on all the time.

Now it's not. :D

91 XR7
02-20-2012, 12:59 AM
luckly for me, when i got a code 21 on my '91 SC all i had to do was ground the main body (from the grounding point on it) to the battery with a 10ga wire, and the light went out and wasn't seen ever since.. (well except at normal start up sequence)

Mike8675309
02-20-2012, 11:51 AM
I wish I had the time to do it. One thing that would be helpful is to dig into the wiring more on these ABS systems and see what is going on. It is possible that the processor circuits are not sufficiently protected from excess current flow should some part along the chain to the processor fail. In particular it may not have enough protection for a long term failure, should someone ignore the light for an extended period of time.

That module is a $50 core for A-1 Cardone, and a $100 core for Raybestos. If you know someone with some electronics background it might be worth letting them take it apart and see what if anything they can. These things are old enough there may still be discrete components that could be identified as bad and replaced.

TbirdSCFan
02-20-2012, 01:40 PM
So we went to another car (good thing to have lots of SC's around) and got a known working ABS module to test. Bingo! Actually, it was probably just installed with the label that says "this side up" on the down side. :D Swap the label and it should fix it up. :D