M5R2 Shifting Issues Troubleshooting

I had my 5-speed rebuilt about a year ago and I have been having trouble with it ever since. I rebuilt with fiber synchros and added a B&M ripper. Here is a list of the symptoms:

1) Transmission is stiff for the most part. Sometimes it shifts fine but for the most part it takes some effort to get it into gear.

2) Doesn't want to go into gear at all. When I come to a complete stop it will not shift into first and sometimes second. I will cycle through 3rd and fourth to loosen it up but it does not always help. Most of the time I can get it into second, with some force, then get it rolling slightly so it will move into first. Again with a bit of force.

3) Grinds into reverse fairly often. I have to be really careful of grinding if I go from first to reverse. sometimes its ok sometimes its not.

3) Grinds going into third at higher RPM shifts. I don't mean redlining it but if I am going up a hill and let it rev up a bit more and then shift from second to third it will sometimes grind. Happens on flats too but not as often.

4) When I am rolling to a stop in 1st gear with the clutch IN. I can feel a "bump" coming through the drivetrain. I had talked to you about this before and you mentioned it might be the brakes we just did but it is still doing it and it has been over a year for the brakes.

5) When the car is in neutral and it is being put into gear i can feel the same "bump" in the drivetrain. It is really noticable when first gear is stubborn. When the shifter is moved to the threshold of putting it into gear I will feel the bump and the car will roll forward ever so slowly; only when it is at the threshold though and not actually in gear.

The problems are not consistant and are probably going to be difficult to reproduce on command but they have been happening since it was rebuilt.When it is working good it shifts bueatifuly but when its not it really makes driving the car a pain in the ~~~. I know the transmission has truck origins and will be notchy but its way to much. The guy who does the major stuff to my car thinks its the clutch but they cant find anything wrong.

Can anyone help me figure out what is going on?

Just checking... do you know if it has gear lube in it instead of ATF? My 5 speed had similar symptoms since I bought it. I drained out the thick gear lube and refilled it with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. What a huge difference!

try bleeding the clutch.

take a look through the view hole while someone else depresses the clutch pedal. see if the clutch is fully disengaging.

I agree...it sounds like to me that your clutch is not releasing properly. I lived with this for several years until I fried the blockers. The cause was determined to be for me using an aftermarket flywheel which was thinner than stock and the flywheel not being shimmed to make up the difference. Dave Dalke did the troubleshooting, clutch replacement as well as slave cylinder snd rebuilt the tranny using fiber blockers. Haven't had an issue since other than when it was REAL cold here in IA and the tranny a tad stiff until warmed.

First the clutch. Make sure that it dose not start to engage untill about middle travel on the peddle. If its right at the bottom then you need to bleed it or shim the slave cyinder. Next the trans itself. Drain out your fluid and get yourself some GM syncromesh trans fluid.
Best fluid I ever used in a tranny.

Duffy Floyd said:

I agree...it sounds like to me that your clutch is not releasing properly. I lived with this for several years until I fried the blockers. The cause was determined to be for me using an aftermarket flywheel which was thinner than stock and the flywheel not being shimmed to make up the difference. Dave Dalke did the troubleshooting, clutch replacement as well as slave cylinder snd rebuilt the tranny using fiber blockers. Haven't had an issue since other than when it was REAL cold here in IA and the tranny a tad stiff until warmed.

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Hmmm... my flywheel was lightened and I have no idea if there are any shims in there or not. I didn't have any problems with my centreforce before but i wonder if its the combination of the two.

95MTSC said:

Just checking... do you know if it has gear lube in it instead of ATF? My 5 speed had similar symptoms since I bought it. I drained out the thick gear lube and refilled it with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. What a huge difference!

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This is for sure not a fluid problem. Sometimes it will shift so nicely and then other times it will not. There is some kind of variable that throws it off.

I would grind REAL bad trying to get into reverse if the car was on any kind of incline. It was better shifting in the winter before the fluid warmed in the tranny. That extra drag from thicker fluid that was cold helped the input shaft to not rotate as much. It only got worse over all...but yes...some days it was worse than others. I also had a CF Duel Friction which did not help. I switched to the CF II. I had one of the early McLeoad Lightened Steel Flywheels. 20 thousands of an inch was all Dave said it was "off".

well, my 5spd also sometimes grinds and other times not.. I did the swap from an auto and filled it with mobile 1 atf.. well after talkin to a tranny guy and reading up on here, I need to put in ford friction modifier as i didnt when I first filled it, and the tranny guy said a lot of fords come in with intermittent grinding, not constant, and would put in the friction modifier and it would fix it right up . SO if you dont have any in your tranny I would try that also ....

Try some GM sycromesh in your trans. Do you have center travel on your clutch all the time?

Duffy Floyd said:

I would grind REAL bad trying to get into reverse if the car was on any kind of incline. It was better shifting in the winter before the fluid warmed in the tranny. That extra drag from thicker fluid that was cold helped the input shaft to not rotate as much. It only got worse over all...but yes...some days it was worse than others. I also had a CF Duel Friction which did not help. I switched to the CF II. I had one of the early McLeoad Lightened Steel Flywheels. 20 thousands of an inch was all Dave said it was "off".

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Ya my car wont go into first if its on an incline... or if it doesnt feel like it for whatever reason. Same with reverse and same with second soemtimes. I will pass on the info. What you are describing sounds like the same probelm. Ill be back if it isn't.Thanks Duffy.

It's not the fluid nor is it a centerforce issue. The input shaft is clearly hanging up on something. Whether or not its a hydraulic problem, tolerance problem or something else is the responsibility of the shop doing the work to determine.

Key points to look at:

Pilot bearing
Clutch disc spline engagement
TO bearing operation
Flywheel thickness
Condition of the slave cylinder and the rest of the hydraulic system
Clutch pedal to master cylinder connection

If it's put together right you won't have these issues.

I have a problem going into reverse. Seems about every other time I go in reverse, its grinds the first try then it goes in fine. Anybody have to shim the spec lightened flywheel and clutch assembly? I didn't check it, just slapped it together figuring it would be fine, but something isn't quite coshure.

Only lead I have is that I have to let off the clutch about 2/3 of the way until the clutch grabs(new components). Other then slapping that stuff together I am not very experienced with manual transmission operation. Bleeding the system seems a little different then brakes so I don't know for sure if I did it right, but no problems at all with any other gear and the clutch feels nice and stiff.

After being around so many of these cars I found if you have center travel { meaning it engages half way up} your flywheel thickness and all the air has been bled out of your slave cylinder it should all be correct. If all is good above try some GM Syncromesh trans fluid. Now if we could only use a Tremic 6 speed trans and trash the truck trans

scbird1 said:

After being around so many of these cars I found if you have center travel { meaning it engages half way up} your flywheel thickness and all the air has been bled out of your slave cylinder it should all be correct. If all is good above try some GM Syncromesh trans fluid. Now if we could only use a Tremic 6 speed trans and trash the truck trans

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I use GM synchromesh

Question for all those using the Syncromesh fluid-do you also use friction modifier with fiber blockers?

Nick

I never used it. only syncromesh

The correct procedure for engaging reverse is:

1) depress the clutch

2) with shifter in neutral and clutch depressed wait 3 seconds

3) shift into reverse.

4) if you release the clutch at any time during this process you must go back to step 1.

This is a FORD mandated procedure and will eliminate the grind 99.9% of the time unless your reverse syncro (and/or the gear itself) is shot.

Alot of mention on here about fluids, but how do you know if it really is the synchros that are bad? Mine grinds terribly going into second and third but not in any othert gears.

T-bird Tim said:

Alot of mention on here about fluids, but how do you know if it really is the synchros that are bad? Mine grinds terribly going into second and third but not in any othert gears.

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I had the same problem as you are talking about and tried every fluid out there and the only thing that worked was changing the synchros and the pilot bearing,and so far it works great with standard tranny fluid but with brass blockers the friction modifier caused more problems for me or noticed more with it in the tranny.But it maybe different in your tranny I'm not sure if it was the problem or just the the synchros were weak. good luck