Top Dog Status in the community?

[ricardoa1]

Stupid question. What HP and or TQ does this community recognize TOP DOG status. Over 300? 325? 350?

[sinhumane]

how much are you making NOW?:)


something is up, isnt it?

[nickleman60]

top HP #'s are over 400 rwhp and TQ #'s are close to 500 ft/lbs

[CMac89]

Aren't there more 400rwhp than 300+rwhp SC's?

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

To be a top dog you need an SC to run consistantly and make over 300rwhp haha..

Seriously I would think anything over 350rwhp or over 400ft lbs is up there in my books..All subjective however if you arent tweaking the dyno numbers to much that is very respectable.

I'd hate to use just hp or torque as different blower combos produce different results in those departments

[David Neibert]

Stupid question. What HP and or TQ does this community recognize TOP DOG status. Over 300? 325? 350?

Ricardo,

To be top dog with an anything goes 3.8 based motor, you have to beat Damon's 543 rwhp & 527 rwtq. To be top dog in the stock longblock ranks, you have to beat Rich's 437 rwhp. Info about each are in the links below.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85819

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91150

If you don't believe either of these ever happened....then I think Dave Dalke's 445 rwhp is the number to beat (excludes nitrous). I think that anything over 400 rwhp would put your car among the most powerful in the club.

David

PS: Most I've pulled without nitrous is 435 rwhp.

[CMac89]

DD got a great number out of his AR motor. Now just think if the blower was inverted with a good intake manifold and a 2.2L blower running 23psi.

543 is possible.:)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

DD got a great number out of his AR motor. Now just think if the blower was inverted with a good intake manifold and a 2.2L blower running 23psi.

543 is possible.:)

funny thats what I had......Although there wa sa tad more then that. So how come others with all this money spent in thier motors (Dave N) havent surpassed the Dave D number with a 1.7L AR?

[CMac89]

funny thats what I had......Although there wa sa tad more then that. So how come others with all this money spent in thier motors (Dave N) havent surpassed the Dave D number with a 1.7L AR?

Power's all in the heads and blower. They both have the best heads available and the same blowers.

DN's only back 10rwhp from DD's number. The difference in corrected altitude can play a role in that.

[Ira R.]

funny thats what I had......Although there wa sa tad more then that. So how come others with all this money spent in thier motors (Dave N) havent surpassed the Dave D number with a 1.7L AR?

Seems to me that some people are getting pretty close. I think it's just a matter of time until someone hits the right combination with an AR or the 112 and makes that much power.

Ira

[CMac89]

Seems to me that some people are getting pretty close. I think it's just a matter of time until someone hits the right combination with an AR or the 112 and makes that much power.

Ira

His name starts with Mike and ends with Tuck.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I didnt realize Dave D used Nitrous as well

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Dam I thought it was Jason Miller

[kenewagner]

Ricardo, why dont you post in the poll forum and see what the majority vote for to make big dog status. There could be big dog shirts, and pins and rings, a big dog forum.;) I know Im looking forward to big dog staus someday but like you dont know what that is. For now Im happy just climbing the mountain:D

Ken

[David Neibert]

funny thats what I had......Although there wa sa tad more then that. So how come others with all this money spent in thier motors (Dave N) havent surpassed the Dave D number with a 1.7L AR?

Automatic with non locking converter vs. 5 speed is the main reason I'm not pulling the numbers Dave D. did. BTW, I'm planning to install the 3.00" pulley (has 3.250 now) prior to the Shootout for a little more boost.

David

[Ira R.]

I didnt realize Dave D used Nitrous as well

Doesn't matter. We have people pushing that envelope right now without the gas. It's a shame there isn't a list somewhere though so we could keep track of it. It's hard to remember what everyone lists in their sig.

Ira

[ricardoa1]

I was not really asking who to beat to be The "TOP DOG", But just like in High School we had the jocks, the geeks, the goth.........
Assuming the high HP club are the jocks. What is the price for admission. 3.8l based.

[ricardoa1]

Doesn't matter. We have people pushing that envelope right now without the gas. It's a shame there isn't a list somewhere though so we could keep track of it.

Ira

Agreed........

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

I know Im looking forward to big dog staus someday but like you dont know what that is. For now Im happy just climbing the mountain

And it can be made a private forum to bash on the lil people..J/K of course:p

We should however have a torque elite status being our car sare known for torque..Kinda like a sticker that says,,SCCOA 300+ torque club, 350 torque + club ect ect. Just a thought

[David Neibert]

I was not really asking who to beat to be The "TOP DOG", But just like in High School we had the jocks, the geeks, the goth.........
Assuming the high HP club are the jocks. What is the price for admission. 3.8l based.

Ricardo,

There is no such group in this club. But I think the number you are looking for is 400 rwhp.

David

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Assuming the high HP club are the jocks. What is the price for admission. 3.8l based.

oh booyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. We cant even deciede on a top SC rules list...Commone now!

[al35thsc]

Pfffff, all the jocks got was herpes and kids at 18. What you need to be going for is the geek status. Have so much complicated machinery and computer gadgets that your 500 hp car is sitting in parts waiting to be worked on. Then you can bench race and rag on the little people that only run 11's. Seems those are the big dogs around here.:eek:

[ricardoa1]

The Jock thing is just a small analogy.

An idea to make a list is creating a separate web page in the Shootout website and record the numbers attained at the event for each year. I belive Dalke post such list after the shootout but it would be great if the shootout commitee made such a page with a little description of mods. Its something to go by anyways.

[kenewagner]

Ricardo,

There is no such group in this club. But I think the number you looking for is 400 rwhp.

David

Boy that would suck if some day I hit 399 and just miss out:D

[ricardoa1]

Boy that would suck if some day I hit 399 and just miss out:D


We'll just have to dyno on a 40 degree day, undo the water pump belt.:)

[kenewagner]

We'll just have to dyno on a 40 degree day, undo the water pump belt.:)

Untill then ricardo we will just be medium dogs, over 300 but not quite 400.:D.

[David Neibert]

We'll just have to dyno on a 40 degree day, undo the water pump belt.:)

Don't forget to ice down the motor ;)

David

[al35thsc]

The Jock thing is just a small analogy.
Aye, and I'm a facetious a-hole. I like looking at the results of the shoot outs as the top dogs. Reason why is, the cars are running, the guys show up, and people's claims in sigs are just claims unless they back it up without excuses. Not throwing stones, just get tired of the drama every now and then.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Big Al Says...

I am the Dog..The big badd Dooogggggg

[al35thsc]

woof woof, daddyo

[tim]

If you make over 300 hp. to the rear wheels your car will be fast. its a lot of fun, but also a real learimg experiance to keep going faster and making more power.:D

[mannysc]

Im the puppy that everyone kicks cause be humps your girlfriends leg

[XR7 Dave]

I've posted this before so it's not like I'm just making this up now. :p

I think that at 300rwhp I won more street races than I did at 350rwhp. Seems 350rwhp is just enough to get you into trouble but not enough to get you out of it.

400rwhp is top dog stuff. Now if your car is light you can have top dog status with less than 400rwhp. If your car is pig heavy then it may require a little more. I think 350rwhp is easy but 375 and up takes effort, time, and money so in most cases 375rwhp is top dog stuff.

For this discussion I think torque is irrelevant for the most part because it is mostly wasted spinning the tires. Torque is not quite so irrelevant on the street for pure pleasure sake but it doesn't do much when the pedal goes down.

The SC Shootout is working on some additions to the webpage that will include some of the things mentioned above as well.

[Miller]

+1 for 400rwhp being bigdog. Seems 300rwhp hardly gets a wink these days compared to the 400+'s

[racecougar]

Agreed...hit 400rwhp and you've got something pretty serious.

-Rod

[1MTNCAT]

TOP DOG stuff are cars that can run 10's-11's regardless of power output.

How many here do that and can do that consistantly? Forget power, can you make ENOUGH power and put it to the ground and get it down the track/street.

I've yet to see anyone race a dyno!!! Or a dyno do 10's or 11's.

Just a thought on my part!!!:)

[Kevin Leitem]

TOP DOG stuff are cars that can run 10's-11's regardless of power output.

How many here do that and can do that consistantly? Forget power, can you make ENOUGH power and put it to the ground and get it down the track/street.

I've yet to see anyone race a dyno!!! Or a dyno do 10's or 11's.

Just a thought on my part!!!:)

perfectly said!!

[David Neibert]

TOP DOG stuff are cars that can run 10's-11's regardless of power output.

How many here do that and can do that consistantly? Forget power, can you make ENOUGH power and put it to the ground and get it down the track/street.

I've yet to see anyone race a dyno!!! Or a dyno do 10's or 11's.

Just a thought on my part!!!:)

Yes I can, and for the average weight SC/XR7 it takes right around 400 rwhp to run 11s.

David

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Dyno queens??? I would think that a full weight SC at 400 plus rwhp raced consistently would start breaking things. SC carnage

[1MTNCAT]

"Yes I can, and for the average weight SC/XR7 it takes right around 400 rwhp to run 11s."

Agreed. and so can I at 350HP/500+ lb ft Stock PI V8/Single power adder too David. That's my point and I can assure you, mine is full weight!

Mine tends to NOT spin the tires but rather lifts the fronts!:)

We'll see what it does now with the newly installed cams in it without the tune for now.

[David Neibert]

Yes I can, and for the average weight SC/XR7 it takes right around 400 rwhp to run 11s.

Agreed. and so can I at 350HP/500+ lb ft Stock PI V8/Single power adder too David. That's my point and I can assure you, mine is full weight!

Mine tends to NOT spin the tires but rather lifts the fronts!:)

Yeah I saw that video...pretty cool.

David

PS: Ricardo wasn't asking how quick the car needed to be...he was asking how much power it needed to make.

[1MTNCAT]

Dave,

I got no problems with that. I'm just saying there is more to being quick than just HP. So I guess its the interpretation of whats a TOP DOG, E.T or Horsepower.

I know as you do its only as good as what you can plant to the ground.

No biggie really, just thought I'd mention it.

BTW If ever I'm around I got to get a ride in both of those cars LOL!!!!

[David Neibert]

Dave,

I got no problems with that. I'm just saying there is more to being quick than just HP. So I guess its the interpretation of whats a TOP DOG, E.T or Horsepower.

I know as you do its only as good as what you can plant to the ground.

No biggie really, just thought I'd mention it.

BTW If ever I'm around I got to get a ride in both of those cars LOL!!!!

Steve,

I was hoping you would make it to the Shootout this year. If I don't see you then, I'll try to make it out to the Joel Bender meet next year.

David

[Dahoopd]

FUKE! All of You! I am the TOP DOG!

[ricardoa1]

Lots of things are taken into account with 1/4 mile racing. Tires, supension set ups and among other things. Which my car is not set up for and never will be I drive on the highway and thats where it happens for me. Call it ricer racing or illegal, but thats where its at for me. So a 350HP car will surely loose to a car with 400Hp at the same weight with the same gears. I have yet to loose a race with SRT on the highway, But I have lost many in the SC on the highway, thats my reason for making it faster so that doesnt happen.

Different strokes for different folks, its all good.

[1MTNCAT]

"Lots of things are taken into account with 1/4 mile racing. Tires, supension set ups and among other things. Which my car is not set up for and never will be I drive on the highway and thats where it happens for me."

You brought up a good point. With that being said mine has gone 12.5's @110 MPH on the street tires @ the track. So are you saying it won't do that on the street? Mine is no "Track Only" set-up contrary to popular belief and it genereally see's 5K-7K miles per year on it minumum. No trick race suspension and its driven on the highway. Its made several 6+ hour 1 way drives & back in the past year, and twice to St. Louis a couple years ago, raced, then driven back home.

Yeah, big horsepower on the street is sweet. Where you gonna get it all out at and how legal or safe is it?

[ricardoa1]

Where you gonna get it all out at and how legal or safe is it?

I never said it was legal or safe, I do try not to do thing like that when other cars are around. Plus the quicker you are the faster the race is over. But I never said that my car or other cars can go to the track and put down some nice numbers. But to use that as "Big Dog" measuring tool, I feel there is a bigger gray area. IMO.
So my point is this you have a 11.50 car and a 12.5 car the 11.50 car has 350HP and the 12.5 car has 400HP. In a highway race the car with 400HP will rape the car with 350HP.

[1MTNCAT]

"So my point is this you have a 11.50 car and a 12.5 car the 11.50 car has 350HP and the 12.5 car has 400HP. In a highway race the car with 400HP will rape the car with 350HP."


Keep believing that. I've seen over many (30+) years a lot of 400 HP cars not run with a lesser HP car at the track and on the street for various reasons. Primarily in most cases due to traction or room enough for them to both get aired out, neither can get full potential on the street. So that is not a given. Seldom that I've ever seen, does one have the space and ability to get either of those up to the full potential of the car on a sreet race anyway. The top horsepower car doesn't always win, regardless of being on the track or the street.

Top HP or torque on a dyno competition is one thing, on the street/strip that is another. There are no givens.

That's my point, nothing more nothing less.

[XR7 Dave]

While it is true that you can't race dyno sheets it is also true that 450rwtq feels a LOT different than 350rwtq and it doesn't take a race of any kind to appreciate that. A 350rwtq car will spin the tires on the street but a 450rwtq car will not only blow the tires off at 25mph but it will put the car all kinds of sideways. That's the fun of it. Racing, whether it's on the street or track only makes up for a very small portion of how the power is used and appreciated.

[ricardoa1]

"So my point is this you have a 11.50 car and a 12.5 car the 11.50 car has 350HP and the 12.5 car has 400HP. In a highway race the car with 400HP will rape the car with 350HP."


Keep believing that. I've seen over many (30+) years a lot of 400 HP cars not run with a lesser HP car at the track and on the street for various reasons. Primarily in most cases due to traction or room enough for them to both get aired out, neither can get full potential on the street. So that is not a given. Seldom that I've ever seen, does one have the space and ability to get either of those up to the full potential of the car on a sreet race anyway. The top horsepower car doesn't always win, regardless of being on the track or the street.

Top HP or torque on a dyno competition is one thing, on the street/strip that is another. There are no givens.

That's my point, nothing more nothing less.


You are still talking about street racing I dont street race I highway race. I dont slow down to 0 MPH on an interstate and have a guy flag us while a big truck is reeling down on us.

[David Neibert]

While it is true that you can't race dyno sheets it is also true that 450rwtq feels a LOT different than 350rwtq and it doesn't take a race of any kind to appreciate that. A 350rwtq car will spin the tires on the street but a 450rwtq car will not only blow the tires off at 25mph but it will put the car all kinds of sideways. That's the fun of it. Racing, whether it's on the street or track only makes up for a very small portion of how the power is used and appreciated.

Very true...I have much more fun just driving my cars to and from work or to various car club gatherings than I do racing them at the track. It's fun to race them once in a while just to prove to myself what they are capable of, but I'm not concerned enough about it to install all the safety equipment needed to be track legal at the ET and MPH they are both capable of running.

I've already reached my ET goal with the 91 and I'm very close to reaching my goal with the 93. Once that's done I'd be content if neither car was ever raced again. Since one of the two local tracks closed down and both my cars are black listed from the remaining one for lack of safety equipment, I don't get many chances to race anyway.

David

[1MTNCAT]

Very true...I have much more fun just driving my cars to and from work or to various car club gatherings than I do racing them at the track. It's fun to race them once in a while just to prove to myself what they are capable of, but I'm not concerned enough about it to install all the safety equipment needed to be track legal at the ET and MPH they are both capable of running.

I've already reached my ET goal with the 91 and I'm very close to reaching my goal with the 93. Once that's done I'd be content if neither car was ever raced again. Since one of the two local tracks closed down and both my cars are black listed from the remaining one for lack of safety equipment, I don't get many chances to race anyway.

David

Me Too! Thats why I confine my daring ways to the strip. I'm old and I like my license too well. But it is nice to know that you don't have to put up with some of the Pesky ricers, stangs and some of the other thugs out there too!!

Not that any of us never have blasted them on the street/highway. LOL!!!;)

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

People change

I couldnt care less what my car runs or what dyno numnbers my car makes even so far as I'm happy with the way it performs. Thats why I am no longer into dedicated drag race cars as I'd perfer to build something to enjoy every day as oppossed to once a week month or year. Doesnt mean I wont set a goal..Its just unimportant so long as I like the car.

I still think anything over 350rwhp or 400ft lbs is Top Dog Territory. I think Dave D alluded to it. It seems also that 350 is probably around an ideal rwhp for our cars without going all out race.