code 14

spetz01

Registered User
This seems to relate to ignition profile pickup failure. Anyone expand on this? Is it realted to cam/crank sensors? DIS??
 
Official definition is: Intermittent loss of PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup) signal the PCM has incurred during recent operation.

Simple explanation is the ignition signal to the PCM has dropped out. Recheck all your primary ignition system wiring DIS module and coil.
 
Dude! The last thing I would EVER recommend is to start throwing parts at the problem!!:eek:

Unless you know someone who has the skills or fancy equipment you need to find the specs and perform some old fashioned diagnostics.

I wish we were closer but I have no control over that. Maybe you could refresh our memory on what the symptons are. I'll reread from the beginning to try and get a flavor.

Boil it down to its simplest form and the PCM is not receiving an RPM signal from the ignition system. The DIS (module) sends this signal. The question is WHY?? You can decide to replace the module but it won't guaranty the problem is fixed. Worse if it's a connection problem you will temporarily 'fix' it and it will return at the most inopportune moment.
 
about the only thing that is NOT new on the setup is the power steering pump and the AC compressor. I have 2 DIS units that a swap back and forth if need be. I just installed a Demon coil pack...cause...why the f not right. When it was on the dyno the power curve looks like a guy havin a heart attack...all over the place, not a smooth "curve". For all that I have thrown at this car its slower than stock. It seems to idle fine, starts easy, but backfire's a bit when it hot, then it just gives up and will stall.

I'm sick of pulling the plugs and gapping and re gapping because everyonre has a different idea of whats right. From what I've seen Dave D is the guy to listen to...ergo my plugs are autolites at .35. I've re-sealed everything 5 time...no leaks, holds a 15 in/Hg at idle.

I just installed a new cam sensor a while ago, re timed it (bhj issue and their lack of marks or installtion instructions. I have a new crank sensor for just in case that I'm thinking of putting in, as well as a new DIS. That would mean all the ignition system is new...might get around that code 14.

I'm almost ready to pull the motor out..have the Pope over when I put it back together, Micheal Jackson can sing in the background, I won't drink rum...honest, and maybe it will work. It's been two years and a lot of wasted time for something that's probably right under my nose.
 
While I can sense your frustration you need to take a step back and a deep breath.

Here's what we know (I think) car starts and runs but doesn't make power then doesn't want to stay running and we have a code indicating the PCM is not receiving a constant RPM signal.

You need to go through the ignition system. While I've read some posts where others had similar issues with the Screamin Demon coils I can't attest to anything. If you have the original coil and the car ran with it try swapping them out and see if the car still exhibits the same symptoms. If it gets warm and stays running drive it around. You should be able to tell if it's making decent power with your butt dyno. If there is no change try swapping out the DIS modules. Make sure to clean the underside of the DIS & put dielectric grease on it!

Take a good look at the wires and connectors to make sure you don't have a wire or terminal that is damaged or loose. I am NOT talking about plug wires here!! I'm talking about the primary ignition system: All the wires that carry low voltage to all the components that make the high voltage spark happen.

The Crank sensor generates the PIP signal. It sends one to the PCM and one to the DIS. It is possible that it got damaged during your rebuild/install or was going bad anyway.

Again while I don't advocate throwing parts at it if you have other known good parts you can swap them out to eliminate a bad one particularly as I sense you're not strong in the electronic diagnostic area.

The list of things that can cause a hot engine stall or sluggish/lack of power conditions is pretty extensive although a number of them do overlap. Seeing as you have a code indicating an ignition problem it makes the most sense to start there.

A trick I learned is to watch the tach while the car is stalling. If the tach drops out the problem is ignition if the tach seems to stay with the engine as it stalls the problem is elsewhere. While this doesn't take a critically trained eye it does require you to use your eyes and ears independently of each other. I apologize for some of this seeming run on but my comma key is f~~~~~~.

Let us know what you find.
 
I had crank sensor problems way back before I rebuilt the car. It was more of a "FU...I'm not working right now" opposed to intermitent problems. MInd you it does just decide to shut the car down...like its lost its rythem and try's to guess what it should do...resulting in the backfiring?? The only main difference this time is the car will fire right back up. I used to have to wait 10 minutes, sometimes a couple of hours before it would run. Originally I had bought a DIS thinking let eliminate the easiest repair, being on top. Of course then I had to do the CS.

So I think my game plan is going to try and locate a ignition harness. Mine seems to be in OK shape...I retaped/covered the loom as mine was somewhat brittle. Of course the plugs/clips are the same..not many actually have the clips anymore. I tried to remedy this by using dielectric grease in the connections. While thats out I'll add the new CS and go from there.
 
Holy crap Jim has this thing run right since you put it back together with all the upgrades?
 
You mentioned gapping and regapping plugs bro but have you tried a different set of plugs?
 
yah...ngk (i think) iridium. They don't like to be gapped other that how the comw which was .54. It ran the same, so the Autolites are back in at .35.
 
What kind of fuel pressure you have in this thing? Could be dumping too much fuel in and "backfiring" is excessive fuel igniting in the exhaust.
 
code 14 is crank position sensor. if u dont want to take any apart to replace it you'll need (i beleave it was 8mm) wrench to remove it, it has 2 blots and located (if facing the front of the car) at bottom of h-balancer left hand side. to remove it you will have to have the timing cover off aswell. make sure to have a match book to use as a gap tool for the new sensor. also make sure to compare your new sensor to the old 1. i had to go to 4 dang stores till i found some1 that wasnt retarded to get my new 1:cool:
 
We're trying to help him get this car right so how about a little focus!!

First of all neither the plugs nor the fuel system are causing the code 14.

Second code 14 does not automatically mean the crank sensor is bad.

Everyones instant jump to having people throw parts at the problem is the absolute wrong approach!! Evaluate the information then test the components and connections to verify the source of the problem.

While weak fuel pressure or a restriction can cause the symptom he has not reported a code indicating system always lean. This pretty much brings us back to the problem being in the primary ignition system. The wires connectors and components need to be verified.
 
Do NOT use dieletric grease on the DIS. Go to a Radio Shack or a computer store and get yourself heat sink compound. Put a thin layer on the DIS and mount it up.

I was having a huge crap load of issues with my car, and I ended up swapping in another EEC and she's been a champ since.
 
I believe he is saying he put the grease into the terminals to allow the wires to come out easier not under the DIS as a heat sink compund.
 
Deepblue,

While I think that the codes can be helpful, I don't believe they are always directly related to the problem but could come up as a byproduct.

Remember in The Hunt for Red October when the sonar operator theorized that the computer's incorrect identification of a sound was it "running home to mama".

When my brothers DIS went, it spit out half a dozen codes that had nothing to do with the DIS. Any chance the backfires are what is causing the code and not vice versa?
 
Flex
While in soe cases it can happen code 14 refers to PIP which is a signal generated by the ignition syste. There is nothing save a wire connection or part that can cause this code. Backfire certainly won't. There are soe failures of electronic parts that stay within the operating range that don't generate a code but cause run issues but I would like to see the codes your brother's car generated when DIS went out

trying to keep hi fro replacing known good parts instead of finding actual proble

Keyboard issues causing issing letters Sorry!!!
 
Re-check your gap between the crank sensor and tone ring. Make sure it's tight and not moving around. Carefully check the wiring especially where it routes though the passenger side accesorie bracket. If it's out of the holder it could be pinched or has been broken right there. You might just slap another new one on while you'r down there, just in case. Also check your cam ps and wiring. Since it's cheap and easy to change, you might try a new cam ps. You never know when you might get a brand new part that fails early.

Daspanka
 
Lots of good leads guys...thanks for the input.

I've heard of that heat sink compound...I'll see if I can locate some.

The grease I'm using now in the connectors was also used to ensure a good contact...if indeed that works. I'm still trying to locate a harness.

The timing rings on the back of the balancer...different year to year?? Reason I ask is cause I had to get a new one...can't remember from which member, but he said it was from a 90. I didn't have to the original to compare with. (also installed a BHJ) And I'm pretty sure you don't have to take the timing cover off to change the crank sensor...its mounted to it wit tiny little 5.5mm bolts. The bracket the CS is mounted to might be 8mm...but still, taking off the timing chain cover is not required.

fuel is at 40 psi btw
 
Back
Top