PDA

View Full Version : 5-speed concerns



Darkside
10-19-2007, 12:13 AM
I feel that one of the biggest needs for our cars is an option for us 5-speed guys. I know that the syncros and other rebuild parts are getting harder and harder to find, so where are we going to be in 5 years? I am concerned about this issue, but yet, don't have any ideas on what to do. Every month my tranny gets a little more testy. The only solution I can think of is a C4:(, because I will not put an AOD in it. I would hate to give up the manual though. Anybody have any thoughts on this subject?

David Neibert
10-19-2007, 12:16 AM
What's wrong with AODs ? I've got them in both my cars and they are about the only thing that never gives me problems. Buy a Lentech and your done.

David

Darkside
10-19-2007, 12:29 AM
What's wrong with AODs ? I've got them in both my cars and they are about the only thing that never gives me problems. Buy a Lentech and your done.

David

I fought with you over this when I got my first SC four years ago. LOL:p I don't like automatics. Manual valvebodies or not. I like clutches and shifting. Now, a C4 wouldn't make me happy by any means, but it is all I would settle for. Lightweight and cheap to get. I have two of them right now.

quick35th
10-19-2007, 12:57 AM
Chris,

I am thinking T56 swap out of a GTO would do the trick. The shifter will pretty much come right out where the M5R2 does from what I have read.

Shane

Darkside
10-19-2007, 01:01 AM
Chris,

I am thinking T56 swap out of a GTO would do the trick. The shifter will pretty much come right out where the M5R2 does from what I have read.

Shane

Really? What about the bolt pattern on the bellhousing?

quick35th
10-19-2007, 09:03 AM
Really? What about the bolt pattern on the bellhousing?

Unlike our M5R2's the T56's belhousing unbolts from the transmission and there is a company that makes adapter belhousings that can be bolted to the GM T56 but have the SBF bolt pattern.

Shane

sinhumane
10-19-2007, 09:18 AM
that sounds intriguing.. but damn does it sound expensive!!!!!! a GTO? ZOMG $$! :eek:

SuperCharged91
10-19-2007, 09:23 AM
Lol tyler do you get a post in on every thread that comes up

Jacob_Royer
10-19-2007, 10:44 AM
Speaking of the new GTO's i got a chance to ride in one of the 6.0 powered ones last week and all i can say is WOW!

NickM
10-19-2007, 11:27 AM
I don't know about other parts (gears, sliders, shafts), but talk to Southern Gear on syncros.
See if they can get more of the carbon fiber lined blockers in like I and Mike Puckett got ahold of.

Nick

Darkside
10-19-2007, 11:36 AM
I don't know about other parts (gears, sliders, shafts), but talk to Southern Gear on syncros.
See if they can get more of the carbon fiber lined blockers in like I and Mike Puckett got ahold of.

Nick

I didn't know anybody was making carbon fiber-lined syncros. How did you guys get em. Did Southern have them special made for you?

CMac89
10-19-2007, 11:48 AM
You can get an upgraded T-5 from any aftermarket company like G-Force. They are all over the place and bolt right up. I think SpinningWheels-SC sells the shifter extension kit to make it work.

Unless you set a stick car up correctly, it isn't going to be as fast as a C4. Even so, you need the right converter, which will determine what your car will run. I will be putting a C4 in my car, sometime in the future.

I think a T-56 would be coolest for a stick tranny. You could run 4.30's with 30" tires, trap 125mph at 6K, and cruise 75mph at 2K (with basically any size tire.)

Come to think of it, I don't know if I wanna go to a C4.

T-56 VEY NIIIICCE!!

Mike Puckett
10-19-2007, 12:48 PM
Southern Gear wouldn't tell me where they get the carbon fiber blockers from. I know they are carbon fiber because they are gray instead of brown and will conduct electricity. They don't always have them but they do get them from time to time because they know we need them. My concern is for replacement gears or the synchro cluster gears themselves. The F150 version has different synchro sliders than ours and they won't fit. I have 2 transmissions and keep one rebuilt and ready to swapout whenever I need it. You might want to try to buy another transmission just to have parts available.

Darkside
10-19-2007, 02:02 PM
Southern Gear wouldn't tell me where they get the carbon fiber blockers from. I know they are carbon fiber because they are gray instead of brown and will conduct electricity. They don't always have them but they do get them from time to time because they know we need them. My concern is for replacement gears or the synchro cluster gears themselves. The F150 version has different synchro sliders than ours and they won't fit. I have 2 transmissions and keep one rebuilt and ready to swapout whenever I need it. You might want to try to buy another transmission just to have parts available.

What do the carbon fiber blockers cost, if you don't mind me asking.

Mike Puckett
10-19-2007, 02:14 PM
They were $200 for the set of 6. The reverse and 5th gear blockers were solid brass but 1-4 are fiber. I also talked with a Tremec rep and he recommended the TKO instead of the T56 but after discussing the project with them it was going to cost over $3000 to do the swapout and I decided not to pursue it. He also praised the M5R2 for its strength and frankly as long as the blockers are good I can speed shift it with ease. I know when it needs new blockers when I start missing 3rd gear repeatedly. I know what you mean about wanting to stick with the manual tranny. I'LL GIVE UP MY STICK SHIFT WHEN THEY PRY MY COLD DEAD FOOT OFF THE CLUTCH PEDAL.:D

seawalkersee
10-19-2007, 02:15 PM
Indeed...Do tell. When did you guys get these sycnhros?

Chris

Darkside
10-19-2007, 02:26 PM
I'LL GIVE UP MY STICK SHIFT WHEN THEY PRY MY COLD DEAD FOOT OFF THE CLUTCH PEDAL.:D

Word.:cool:

Sounds like we need a group buy.;) Maybe you could arrange something?

Mike Puckett
10-19-2007, 04:17 PM
The last time I was there was in August and they had 3 sets. I bought 2 of them. I asked the same question about when do they get them in and I was told to just call periodically to see if they had any. I suspect that if demand is high enough they will get them more often. On the other hand I called drivetrain.com and asked about theirs. They have the original paperfiber ones from time to time as well but they charge $330 per set. Southern Gear's phone # is 770-435-1461. The more people that inquire the more likely they are to get them.
I would like to add that I haven't run the carbon fiber blockers yet and don't know how well they hold up. Just playing with the synchro assembly they seem to have plenty of grip. I have a thread back sometime in August with photos of the 2 for comparison.

XR7 Dave
10-19-2007, 04:43 PM
There is no reason to believe that the M5R2 won't hold up well over 200K miles or more. If you abuse it at the track then that may be a different story. I've never seen one fail in normal use.

At some point tranny swaps will become somewhat cheaper but I wouldn't expect it to go much less than $2000.

If I were going only race the car I'd go with a racing 4spd like Richmond or something before I'd go automatic.

BikerSC
10-19-2007, 05:18 PM
Although I haven't had to go there yet, I would think that most of these parts could be custom made if needed. I have 190k on my stock M5R2 and it hasn't had any signs of failure as of yet. You have always been able to tell it was a truck tranny, but when needed, it will shift as fast as you can.

What parts are hard to get? If there is anything that could be machined, I would consider reverse engineering at making a few if it were cost effective.

Mike Puckett
10-19-2007, 06:24 PM
I'd think the only internal parts available would be those in common to the truck versions that are still made or within 7 years of the last production year at least from Ford anyway. Anybody here ever attend any of the job shop conventions for a manufacturing source? I once looked into having gears made locally but nobody would touch it claiming reliability problems. I once thought about having them made in China but I'd question their durability after seeing so much junk come from over there.
BTW, the blockers have SRK248B as a part # on the box.

Mike8675309
10-19-2007, 06:36 PM
As the T56 ends up in more cars, they'll come down in cost. You can already buy complete T56 units from the aftermarket for hot rods. Due to the torque output on our motors, we'll want the beefiest versions of them.

I do agree though that if you want to make a racecar, there are already race transmissions out there that you could get to work with some money and time.

Jacob_Royer
10-19-2007, 09:42 PM
I would so love to do a 5speed swap in my car :( i hate aods...

Slysc
10-19-2007, 09:52 PM
D&D transmissions does a lot of T56 transmissions. They said they would build one up with a 5.0 bellhousing, a viper trans body and an F-body tailshaft and it would fit the MN-12 perfectly. They said it would be $2999 for the trans, flywheel, clutch, shifter, etc.

NickM
10-19-2007, 11:08 PM
The last time I was there was in August and they had 3 sets. I bought 2 of them. I asked the same question about when do they get them in and I was told to just call periodically to see if they had any. I suspect that if demand is high enough they will get them more often. On the other hand I called drivetrain.com and asked about theirs. They have the original paperfiber ones from time to time as well but they charge $330 per set. Southern Gear's phone # is 770-435-1461. The more people that inquire the more likely they are to get them.
I would like to add that I haven't run the carbon fiber blockers yet and don't know how well they hold up. Just playing with the synchro assembly they seem to have plenty of grip. I have a thread back sometime in August with photos of the 2 for comparison.


And after Mike posted his find, I called and ordered the other set.
I have not done my conversion yet-still waiting for my clutch, and a couple of good weekends.
Once I get it in, I will update with how well they work.
BTW Mike, is there a way to get to the 1 and 2 blockers without a press?

Nick

Mike Puckett
10-19-2007, 11:41 PM
BTW Mike, is there a way to get to the 1 and 2 blockers without a press?



Unfortunately not. I used to take mine to a machine shop to have it done for $10 but I bought a 12 ton shop press from the Harbor Freight store for $80 and it's paid for itself. If you press it yourself, you'll need a long metal pipe that'll just fit the inner race of the bearing. If you try to press it back on with the outer race you will bust it.