to George, Duffy and anyone else that really cares...

pro street rich

Registered User
OK so here goes...When is the SCCOA going to get going and rewrite the rules on ET slips and what is done with the car??
Here is my point, and you will have to agree with it... back in 2003 I posted a time slip for one of my passes with a V6 S.C. that was in the 11's. I further followed that up with one even faster in the 11's as well...To date they have never been posted??? WHY??? no clue, but the car did do it and still no postting on it..
This is not my complaint, rather just something that fits right into this whole thing of posting time slips...Those runs were made by a sc V6 BUT it was not a true 3.8 This was done with a 4.3 V6 that had a very short life span... Did anyone know this??? YES some of the guys on here knew that it was a strocker engine..now to the point that I am tring to get to..
There is common knowledge around here that some others have been working on strocker engines. There is also proof that some people have gotten "SPEICAL" blowers from Charles to try...There were a few MP 3's out there before anyone even knew that there was such a thing... Lets look at some of those manifolds that have been built, some are not even alumium, but has any of this EVER been talked about???
If you go back a few years you will come across some of the adds for some of this "odd ball" stuff being sold...There is no police work being done on anything that people are running AND CLAIMING that it is STOCK...
There are some people that will not show what is under their hood, nor show the video of a run to even get close to proving their claim to fame..Why is this put up with?? Why is it the same VERY VERY small group that get the extra fug room when it comes to proving their time or for that matter what they may or may not have done???
This is all coming to a head in light of all the stink that is coming out of Jims post on his run.. Did he go as fast as he claims?? My guess is that he did, BUT what did he do to get it to go that fast??? How big is this engine?? He was selling strocker cranks a while ago, his comment was, WE have something else up our sleeve...Bigger is better....is that what he was talking about??
I know this will get some talk going, some of it will be good, but there will be some that will turn bad in a New York minute,[no refrence to the guys who post from that part of the world} just a statement... What do you think?? is it not time for the SCCOA to start looking at the car that really did the pass down the track??? Are we still going to just take it for granted that what you post is the truth and not a gray side of the truth??? Lets please hear your responce, thanks in advance.....Rich
 
Rich,

Speaking PURELY from a personal standpoint and NOT representing a position I hold as a Co-Administrator of the club.....I think this whole thing has gotten WAY out of hand. To me this club is not solely about drag racing and who has what and goes how fast. Now there are people in this club that have that interest and the way I see it the club has attempted to support that interest. But I don't think we as a club should be placed into a position of being the arbiter of who gets to claim what concerning their cars.

We did attempt to form a committee to work on the "rules" of the fastest and most powerful SC's. Once some of the heat started flying around folks backed off from wanting to serve on that committee.

There are many people here that could care less about racing in any form. There are others for whom this is a primary focus of their interest in all things SC. There has to be a middle ground where everyone's interests are supported.

I am really not sure what exactly you are proposing. Would you like to see the club doing technical inspections of who has what under the hood? Even the minimal requirements we have imposed concerning verification have been fudged in the past by same making claims of runs they have made. Want to subject your engine to a partial teardown in order to get credit for a claimed record? Just how could that work with people in this club spread out all over North America as well as Europe? This is not a professional racing association.

Again....these are just someof my personal feelings concernng the questions your raised.
 
just some ideas for you to look at..

Right now anyone can and does claim anything and it gets posted, most of the time... There has to be a way to get proff of some of the things... Lets just look at a few ideas...
1] No new record runs will be allowed unless they come with proff from other people who can be reached to prove the claim..
2] Records can ONLY be set at events that are put on with more than one person at...
3] The shoot out would be a great place to do it at..
4] local events that are posted in advance so that other S.C.ers could be present..
5] FULL and COMLPETE pic's, video, or other forms of proof to be summitted with the claim of a new time..
Now if you go off and set a new record, that record must be held till it is backed up at a event that has been outlined above. This would help to stop all the junk and also keep the playing field even and more on the up & up...
THese are some of the things that could be done.. Now we can always look at the size of the stroke with simple tools, heck I even have some of them here if need be.....
This is just some ideas... as far as the committe, I was and still am willing to help out on it... Just because others have dropped off is no reason to trash the whole system... With Jims claim, and the fact that he was one of those that have {odd parts} that were made for only a few people, this is now an issue. Others also know about some of these {odd parts} and are just waiting to see where this all goes.....Rich
 
If a time or HP number is claimed and a scan of the appropriate documentation is sent to the proper email address, the data should be posted. This is also to say that simply posting a picture of your timeslip in a thread need not necessarily be considered a valid submission.

There are numbers in the list now that are known to be invalid according to the rules. If the SCCOA isn't going to do anything about them then there is no reason to prevent new data from being posted just because it cannot be verified.

IMO the SCCOA is an administrative body and is not capable of discerning the truth when someone wishes to hide the truth. Therefore it follows that in the interest of fairness that all slips claimed to be valid be posted.
 
I'm not in the running for any of the top spots or anything but I think you should have video and the paperwork to get any # posted.Because it's to easy to get a timeslip and or a dyno sheet from any car and say it's from you're SC.Maybe the club should have an "unlimited" list for timeslips and dyno charts meaning it doen't matter what mods you have under the hood as long as it's a ford based v6 even an svo v6 it qualifies.As does any power adder.Just some thoughts.


Jay
 
the problem is Jim lives in a area of little drag racing interest the north calif area is not as much into the sc world as it once was lots of members are gone not many want to hit the strips . is jim supposed to wait for someone before he hits the track everytime .

then someone would claim the perons persons validating the et were lying.

as for only at shoot out sure move the shoot out to arizona or idaho or sacremento ca the shoot out is not located in a central spot of USA.

its setup for east coast and middle american states .

this is not nhra if you guys want cars checked to see they are 3.8 and factory parts and what not who wants their sc torn apart for inspection . lets say dave drives to race at shootout his sc is torn down now he has to re asssemble the engine to get home .

head gaskets are so much fun exh is fun how do expexct to determine bore stroke?

a tear down so who wants their sc torn down 3000 miles from home

why do guys who have to drive 200 miles to a shootout cry about a guy who has to drive across the country not making it .


this why i dont show my ETs or attend any meets i dont show proof of my parts either buy em or dont like or hate it .

if jim did a 9 sec run with videos from 5 cameras 100 sccoa members to see it the president of the usa present,
jesus taking the wheel, a alien space ship over head, captain kirk standing at end of track spock using tricorder to varifiy the run you same people would still not be statisfied.

If i turned a 10 id keep it to myself if i told ya you would all talk smack id .

do what i have to do.

so i dont post that stuff anger managment classes they work great .
avoid confrontations but If david turned a 9 by himself everyone would say congrats and never doubt him maybe his reputation maybe respect .

Iver wanted to make a full race sc 1400 hp have engine from my brothers car
have 4 link kit have narrowed nine inch have 15x15 rear wheels have everything to make a prostreet sc with motor to back the looks .

but id get the itsa not a sc its not 3.8 it cant be in fastest list not fair to v8 guys or mega inch guys . like prostreetrich i dont think any of the top 5 are within the rules all the way .

oh well just my opinnion im way over posted on here time to close this novel ive writen gud nite
 
like prostreetrich i dont think any of the top 5 are within the rules all the way .

Manny,

I don't know about the other guys, but I can tell you for 100% certian that Chris Wise's car and my car have always been in keeping with the Fastest SC rules including the part about runs being witnessed by a SCCoA member. If you have a specific rule that you think we have bent or broken, I'd be happy to respond to that.

David
 
Last edited:
To me all this talk implies that we are negatively competing against each other. It's great to be competitive, but let's keep it in perspective. If you come on and post that you ran a 9 sec qtr, I say great. Some will demand a video for some reason. Personally I don't care anymore if you did it with a V6 or a V8, good job either way.

What is it about "The Top Spot" anyways? What do you get when you are number one? Free gas, tax breaks, or special parking? It seems like it turns people into that little guy from Lord of the Rings in reference to the way he felt about his "precious". It seems like it changes some people.

I guess I have a more "run what ya brung" attitude towards the list. Whoever has the quickest time wins. Whether that be Jim with a V6 or Rich with a big block. It seems like it would be so easy to have a list of top cars with a listing of their top five mods next to their numbers.

A Mustang GT with 427 is still a Mustang GT.
A Thunderbird SC with a V8 is still a SC.
A 70 Mach 1 with a 90 5.0 engine conversion is still a Mach 1. etc, etc.
 
Manny,

I don't know about the other guys, but I can tell you for 100% certian that Chris Wise's car and my car have always been in keeping with the Fastest SC rules including the part about runs being witnessed by a SCCoA member. If you have a specific rule that you think we have bent or broken, I'd be happy to respond to that.

David

im not implying you not im being a arse by the rules the mpx is not a sc part is it it did not come on a sc its a totally new casting should be listed with A/R , whipple and turbos now a mpiii is a stock part modified. it came on a sc at some point in its life or was meant as a replacement part by eaton for the sc.

so jims blower as a mpiii is a factory part just modified well its not even a mpiii its a home modded part like my clones only better .

cogged pulleys not stock but a 10 ribbed is not stock .

my 10 crank and jackshaft are stockers modified to be over drives

i mean where do you draw the line?

n/20 not stock not sc part at all why is it ok to run a 8.8 irs with after market axles? or a c4 auto or a trans brake is a front mount sc part but a double ic is two stockers modified so its sc parts the rules suck .

i say make it all modified factory parts or just drop all limitations.

as for who is top gun well Jim may not have followed the rules,
on witnesses and other proof but I think he did it ,

whats the difference so he gets someone to witness it gets a video next time but he turns a 10:40 now what .

time will drop every month or so its gonna be more power or someone getting it to the ground better.

when i got to sccoa if someone said 10 sec sc we all laughed yeah it will never happen it was common knowlege 12s is far as they will go now we are sayin hll 9s not to far off.

i say stop crying break out the wrenches and tuners beat him and he will beat you then your turn it will change all the time remember when coy was it ?

tag its jim tag its????
 
This trully is an honor system. It would be easy enough for any one of us to lie and get our freinds to lie about a particular run.

Dyno numbers can easily be fudged, people can lie as to whats done to their motors and well time slips are a dime a dozen.

And that about sums it up.
 
the problem is Jim lives in a area of little drag racing interest the north calif area is not as much into the sc world as it once was lots of members are gone not many want to hit the strips . is jim supposed to wait for someone before he hits the track everytime .

According to Jim, he has a whole crew AND a transporter that travels with him. At least ONE of those people on his crew can video his run for him. You're right, if David turned a 9 second 1/4 tomorrow, nobody would doubt it, as we'd have video from at least three different angles, just as last time.

And gee, Darkside, what you just said sounds exactly like what I just said in another thread, which you shot me down over. :rolleyes: Interesting.

-Rod
 
Maybe top ten runs should have a little more confirmation than just a time slip. A video, confirmation from a club member, etc. The other issue is the motor but I am for almost anything goes as long as it is a Ford V6 for obvious reasons and as long as the motor configuration is documented and listed for all to see.

Mike
 
Strange indeed, I by no means have a fast car compared to a lot of the other cars in the club so I have no axe to grind. If what someone posts is not true, and I am not saying that anyone has done that, what is the point? The real deal to me is work hard on your car figure it out and go have fun. If some one is posting bogus times let them live with it. I have seen some really fast cars at the shootout. Thats not to say other cars arent going faster. BUT if next week I posted My car ran 10.75 heads would turn and people would want to know how I went from 12.5?. Its an honor system to me. I want to go 11.50 with out nitrous. Its my personal goal. Key word PERSONAL. For my own satisfaction. Guys like Dave N are out to have fun too so is Dan Sly and Casey and too tall Miller. I think the entire Spirit of this thing is getting lost. Rich you went fast good! Jimmy D good for you. Kevin I see you at the shootout every year. All I can say is yehaw!! Somebody and I mean more than one person needs to take a chill pill.
 
Strange indeed, I by no means have a fast car compared to a lot of the other cars in the club so I have no axe to grind. If what someone posts is not true, and I am not saying that anyone has done that, what is the point? The real deal to me is work hard on your car figure it out and go have fun. If some one is posting bogus times let them live with it. I have seen some really fast cars at the shootout. Thats not to say other cars arent going faster. BUT if next week I posted My car ran 10.75 heads would turn and people would want to know how I went from 12.5?. Its an honor system to me. I want to go 11.50 with out nitrous. Its my personal goal. Key word PERSONAL. For my own satisfaction. Guys like Dave N are out to have fun too so is Dan Sly and Casey and too tall Miller. I think the entire Spirit of this thing is getting lost. Rich you went fast good! Jimmy D good for you. Kevin I see you at the shootout every year. All I can say is yehaw!! Somebody and I mean more than one person needs to take a chill pill.


stupid.gif
 
It is a fact already that there is data at or near the top of the list that has been both falsified and verified by members in this club (yes known false data has been "verified" by members). To prevent further data from being posted because it cannot be verified is simply wrong if for no other reason then for that reason alone!

Until the invalid data is removed from the list there is no reason for new data to be prevented from being posted. Keep in mind that we cannot say that any data has been prevented from being posted as the list is not being updated regularly anyway. I submitted a dyno sheet and time slip some time ago (couple months) and it has not yet been updated. I'm not complaining but people should keep in mind that the list is not up to date based on prior submissions anyway and hence at this point there is no reason to believe that any data is actually being rejected.

We need to get the data up there and if it can at some point be proven to be inaccurate then it should be taken down at that point. "Innocent until proven guilty."
 
posting a timeslip/video will not shutdown all the bickering of Jims runs, all this b*tching is *what is really done to his car* Either way if its true he ran the 10.6xxx then hes got 1st spot........man up and get it if you dont like it.
I personallly dont care who has 1st or 2nd and so on......i think anyone in the top 20 is badas.s:)
 
if that is the case then I would be #1 years ago...

Personally I don't care anymore if you did it with a V6 or a V8, good job either way.

I guess I have a more "run what ya brung" attitude towards the list. Whoever has the quickest time wins. Whether that be Jim with a V6 or Rich with a big block. It seems like it would be so easy to have a list of top cars with a listing of their top five mods next to their numbers.
[/QUOTE]

Well if this was so, then I have been at the top of the list for many years now. I have a few big block S.C.'s that I have put together that have run under that 10.0 mark. Right now there is one sitting in my shop that will do a sub 10 sec pass WITHOUT the bottle on it. There is a two stage Nos system for it that I am too lazy to put back on it. If that gets added again it goes way too fast for the local track and they get mad if I show up with it..
So if that is the case. then heck. I guess I have been in the top spot for sooooooooooooooo long that it don't mean much..
Now back to the real reason for this post...WE NEED MORE PROOF OF MOD'S NO MATTER WHO IT IS... untill we get that this is all a big game...Lets get this playing field back to level so others can judge what to REALLY expect from the mods and $$$$$$$$$$$$ they spend on these cars.
This would also be a good time for some of the top dogs to also step up and get going with better rules for this. I am ready to hely, and have been for some time...Lets all work together to better this place we love to come and type on, rather than keep adding more suspence and unanswered secrets to the mix...........Rich
 
Rich, this is like a broken record (forgive the pun). I have apologized and answered your question on your time slip so many times I cannot remember. I have also asked you to resend it and have not seen it since that request.

All of this discussion has been hashed and rehashed in the member's section many times. We are very close to a decision that I am sure will just make a different group of people unhappy. I just have not had time to get back to that committee that we formed.

As many have mentioned, it is truly an honor system. There is no way to compel people to give us all the information that would be required to satisfy everyone. And there is no way to make sure the info we receive is 100% accurate. Actually, from an administrative perspective of the club, it would be best and easiest just to delete the lists entirely.

But like I said before, we are close to a new set of rules being developed by a committee of SCCoA members. Once I get time this winter (and this has been going on for several years), I'll re-contact the committee members and get news ones if they no longer wish to participate.

So to answer your original question, we will probably never get together and write rules exactly like you have suggested. We will take a committee of suggestions and end up with a compromise set of rules.
 
Why not make the rules to fit what the main aspects of our cars are V6 stroked or not it still a V6, Supercharged perfer roots, and the 8.8 rear end and make a video for proof for any slip in the top 25 to be entered. Everyone is pushing the rules to make these cars faster but why stop some one from being on the list because he uses a cog pulley to help stop belt slipping (just an example)

I feel thats what a SC is and if you want to put a V8 or a turbo thats fine get the TCCoA to add you to a list cause your set up doesnt fit anymore

What do the GTP and GTO guys do
 
Back
Top