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Toms-SC
01-06-2008, 03:48 AM
Hey,

I've done a search and haven't come up with much help. It appears that running a after market cam with an AOD is tricker then with a standard SC. I'm going through the gears of getting a head & cam combo but sticking with my 'street before track' theory I'd like to see what other AOD drivers are running and what their thoughts are.

If your willing to share, please post up your cam spec and any issues concerning daily drive ability, idle speed, stop light creep and stalling.

Thanks

*This thread is for people with AODs, not standards*

:)

THE BIRDMAN
01-06-2008, 06:35 AM
It shouldn't make any difference running an aod compared to any other auto.You just have to match you converter to you're cam.If you're gonna run a cam with alot of duration you'll definetly need a bigger stall.Bet since you're saying your car is street first then you'll probably have a small cam so stall shouldn't be to big of a deal.I should have my car up and running early next month so if no one else has any input I'll let you know how mine acts.I'm running an aod with a 2200 non locking converter and my cam is a 215I/220E duration @ 50.



Jay

Jacob_Royer
01-06-2008, 11:54 AM
Stock convertor and gears suck with the cam in my sig.. Idle is terrible power brakes half ~~~ work and i have crap tourque compared to stock... Im seriously thinking of going back to a stock cam.

Toms-SC
01-06-2008, 03:31 PM
Birdman,

I've got a 2200 RPM non-locking converter as well. I am looking at something as mild as 204-210 IN/EX @ 520ish lift.

I am very considered with having to crank the rev's up to make the car idle at a stop light.

Anybody running anything similar that can comment?

Toms-SC
01-06-2008, 03:41 PM
Jacob,

Thats a pretty radical cam as you've found out. I bet reverting back to stock is going to solve a lot of your problems.

fturner
01-06-2008, 03:41 PM
if it a fairly mild cam, then if you get the car properly tuned you won't need to increase the idle rpm's. Its only when you go really radical that you will need to, and even then it shouldn't need to be increase that drastically.

I only increased my idle to about 750 just to keep the oil pressure up over 25psi when its blazing hot out. When I get my cam, I won't be increasing my idle as I'll tune it to run properly with it.

THE BIRDMAN
01-06-2008, 07:38 PM
Birdman,

I've got a 2200 RPM non-locking converter as well. I am looking at something as mild as 204-210 IN/EX @ 520ish lift.

I am very considered with having to crank the rev's up to make the car idle at a stop light.

Anybody running anything similar that can comment?




I would think you'd be fine with that.You could send Dave D an e-mail I'm sure he'd be able to tell you what you'd need to have the car perform how you want it to.

Jay

David Neibert
01-07-2008, 12:54 AM
Stock convertor and gears suck with the cam in my sig.. Idle is terrible power brakes half ~~~ work and i have crap tourque compared to stock... Im seriously thinking of going back to a stock cam.

Jacob,

No offense, but how many people need to tell you to get the car tuned before you will believe it ?

David

David Neibert
01-07-2008, 01:00 AM
Tom,

Suggest you talke to Dalke about the cam.... I think you need at least 210/220 w/.520 lift to even make it worth swapping.

David

CMac89
01-07-2008, 01:34 AM
Tom,

Suggest you talke to Dalke about the cam.... I think you need at least 210/220 w/.520 lift to even make it worth swapping.

David

Agreed, and that's still a little cam. The same as mine and I have 15mmHg vacuum and it idles with zero lope.

83GT460
01-07-2008, 02:37 AM
There isn't really anything tricky about a nonstock cam and an auto transmission. All you need do to make it work is install a convertor and gears to go along with it. In the past year since installing cam (224/550 Int 234/580 Exh) and heads I have put about 20,000 miles on my car with Zero drivability issues related to the cam. I will tell you that my car has much more torque, and hp, and is definately more enjoyable to drive than when it was stock. My only complaint about my cam is that idles a little to smooth and sounds to stock.

Charles

Toms-SC
01-07-2008, 03:19 AM
Tom,

Suggest you talk to Dalke about the cam.... I think you need at least 210/220 w/.520 lift to even make it worth swapping.

David

I am currently talking with the big D but I am seeking those who actually live with their cammed AOD cars day to day. Big D is trying his absolute best to accommodate me and I thank him much for it (Dave if your reading this, thank you again).

You have to understand I am getting just a massive amount of contradiction from three different people with three different theory's. Coy Miller, XR7 Dave, Dr.Fred all have different theory's on cams, sometimes they align, most the times they clash. To further complicate the issue there are a certain two cammed SC's here in Calgary which scare the absolute ~~~~ at of me, they are everything I don't want my car to be (Sorry Marty/Scott).

My definition of 'drive ability' is pretty firm. The car must idle without having to crank the idle speed to 1000, lobe to an absolute MINIMUM (with zero being preferred), the car must not randomly stall, the brakes must work (vacuum) and I cannot/will not want to take the valve covers off every year to change drive-line parts (high lift issues, see Corvettes). I would really like to make this cam swap a one time thing as I do not have the resources to continue to swap/tune the car at hand. With that being said I have to air on the side of caution.

As I have been finding out through out my adventures of modifying the SC it is very easy to modify a car to be a track car but it is much more difficult to make it completely street-able and stealth. I am attempting to stick to my guns of street before track. I am not here to brake records. :)

*Disclaimer: I hope this did not come off as a rant. It only goes to show how confusing it is to find a cam to suit a personal need. Similar to the big thread I had to do on AOD transmission. I thank everybody for their input and help.

Toms-SC
01-07-2008, 03:25 AM
I should have my car up and running early next month so if no one else has any input I'll let you know how mine acts.I'm running an aod with a 2200 non locking converter and my cam is a 215I/220E duration @ 50.


I would appreciate that Jay. We have a pretty similar set up. Did Dave do your heads?


There isn't really anything tricky about a nonstock cam and an auto transmission. All you need do to make it work is install a convertor and gears to go along with it. I

Charles

I'm at 2200 RPM non-lock converter with stock rear AOD gears. I have no plans to change either so my cam (I would assume) to match the rest of the car would be pretty baby-like. :p What sort of things did you have to do to dial in your cam to make it all run right? Anything with the throttle body or tuner?


Agreed, and that's still a little cam. The same as mine and I have 15mmHg vacuum and it idles with zero lope.

Assuming this is an AOD we are talking about what is your idle speed in D? Did you run into any teething issues getting the thing to run?

THE BIRDMAN
01-07-2008, 03:56 AM
No Dave didn't do my heads my heads are stock with just a valve spring upgrade(comp 942's).I'm gonna get my car up and running and dyno tuned with all my mods and stock heads.Then later on this year I'm gonna put a good set of heads on it and get it tuned again.That way me and everyone else on here can see exactly how much hp a good set of heads adds to our cars.I haven't see any tests where only the heads were changed so I want to see how much of a change it makes to only do the heads.Everyone always adds other mods when they do heads so the results are kinda scued.So when I do mine I'll test prior to doing heads with everything modded then only change the heads (maybe the injectors if I max mine out)and test it again to see the true difference.


Jay

Jacob_Royer
01-07-2008, 04:04 AM
Jacob,

No offense, but how many people need to tell you to get the car tuned before you will believe it ?

David

i know i know i need more parts first or i will be peeing in the wind so to speak.

David Neibert
01-07-2008, 01:01 PM
I am currently talking with the big D but I am seeking those who actually live with their cammed AOD cars day to day. Big D is trying his absolute best to accommodate me and I thank him much for it (Dave if your reading this, thank you again).

You have to understand I am getting just a massive amount of contradiction from three different people with three different theory's. Coy Miller, XR7 Dave, Dr.Fred all have different theory's on cams, sometimes they align, most the times they clash. To further complicate the issue there are a certain two cammed SC's here in Calgary which scare the absolute ~~~~ at of me, they are everything I don't want my car to be (Sorry Marty/Scott).

My definition of 'drive ability' is pretty firm. The car must idle without having to crank the idle speed to 1000, lobe to an absolute MINIMUM (with zero being preferred), the car must not randomly stall, the brakes must work (vacuum) and I cannot/will not want to take the valve covers off every year to change drive-line parts (high lift issues, see Corvettes). I would really like to make this cam swap a one time thing as I do not have the resources to continue to swap/tune the car at hand. With that being said I have to air on the side of caution.

As I have been finding out through out my adventures of modifying the SC it is very easy to modify a car to be a track car but it is much more difficult to make it completely street-able and stealth. I am attempting to stick to my guns of street before track. I am not here to brake records. :)

*Disclaimer: I hope this did not come off as a rant. It only goes to show how confusing it is to find a cam to suit a personal need. Similar to the big thread I had to do on AOD transmission. I thank everybody for their input and help.

Tom,

I don't see any reason you could not reach your stated goals with a cam similar to what I suggested. As far as who's advice to trust on these matters, I'll put my faith in Dave Dalke. I think he has more experince with working on SC motors of various performance levels (mild to wild) than the other two guys combined. More importantly, he has produced results over and over again.

Not that the cam I suggested would have low vacuum, but is not a problem for the brakes on the 89-92 cars, so I wouldn't get too concerned about it. The brakes on my 91 performed the same with only 7 inches of vacuum as it did with 21 inches. The cam I'm currently using has about 13 inches at 1000 rpms idle and idles boringly smooth.

David

fturner
01-07-2008, 01:38 PM
i know i know i need more parts first or i will be peeing in the wind so to speak.

Yeah, put more parts on the car and it won't run period. Get a stock un-ported blower on that car, get an EEC Tuner at least, and get the darn thing tuned. Thing you can start adding stuff to it.

I'm currently tuning mine with Dave's guidance and my car has never ran so smooth even when it was stock. Heck I've been running the car for several weeks as a daily with Long Term fuel trims turned off and she runs as smooth as silk from idle all the way up. I know I've gained a few more ponies because of this work and I am not going to add anymore go goodies till I get to the track to see what the car will do now, but I know I'm knocking on 13's door with all that I have.

Even if you spend a little bit to get a base tune for your car from Dave for now until you can get it dynoed, I'm sure it will run ALOT better.

Now just GET IT DONE!!!! and stop procrastinating.

kenewagner
01-07-2008, 01:41 PM
Ill throw my 2 cents in Tom. Like you Im not as concerned about challenging the top dogs on the strip. I want an all around street car, looks good, with bling, can stop quickly and be dependable. I went with a small cam when I installed the big valve ported heads. At the shootout I ran a 13.6 with all kinds of electrical grimlins and street tires. I can't throw in any info on the torque converter since mine is stock at the moment. I can say the car idles no diffrent than stock. It is a 210/220 duration with .491 lift. Same cam as the one Ira use to run, very small. My recommendation to you is to listen to Dave. He has been improving the performace of so many SCs lately he seems to be the go to guy in the know. I expect to, on my next dyno runs, be making serious numbers even with a small cam now that the electrical problems have been addressed;). It is my understanding you can get the same duration cam with lifts of .520, .550 & .570. Dave can correct me if that is incorrect. They would all probably idle well and not sacrifice vaccum. Thats my 2 cents and experence. I'm no expert on cams but I see Dave on the forums everywhere, I see him pushing SCs and events for SCs and working on SCs. I dont see Dr Fred or Coy doing the same, not that they might not be doing the same somewhere else. But in our club I try to support venders who seem to be making a diffrence as well as the knowlegable ones. Long 2 cents
anyway

Ken

S_Mazza
01-07-2008, 02:15 PM
I am not a cam guru, but I think that if you are concerned with valvetrain wear, a new cam may be worth the expense over a reground cam. A new billet cam costs about double a regrind, but the extra meat allows for softer radii, etc. that can reduce valvetrain wear.

Jacob_Royer
01-07-2008, 02:26 PM
i need a maf to run the 42# injectors i have i also need a 255lph fuel pump.. I will get it tuned when i have the fuel pump in and can throw injectors and maf on and tune.



Yeah, put more parts on the car and it won't run period. Get a stock un-ported blower on that car, get an EEC Tuner at least, and get the darn thing tuned. Thing you can start adding stuff to it.

I'm currently tuning mine with Dave's guidance and my car has never ran so smooth even when it was stock. Heck I've been running the car for several weeks as a daily with Long Term fuel trims turned off and she runs as smooth as silk from idle all the way up. I know I've gained a few more ponies because of this work and I am not going to add anymore go goodies till I get to the track to see what the car will do now, but I know I'm knocking on 13's door with all that I have.

Even if you spend a little bit to get a base tune for your car from Dave for now until you can get it dynoed, I'm sure it will run ALOT better.

Now just GET IT DONE!!!! and stop procrastinating.

Toms-SC
01-08-2008, 04:33 PM
It is a 210/220 duration with .491 lift.
Ken

Thanks kene. Whats your idle speed at in 1st? I can't believe your piping all of your modifications through a stock AOD still! :eek:

kenewagner
01-08-2008, 07:09 PM
Thanks kene. Whats your idle speed at in 1st? I can't believe your piping all of your modifications through a stock AOD still! :eek:

I havent driven it for 3 months, I beleive it was around 700 to 800 rpm. When I redid my guage faces I think I got the needle off a little. It is a smooth idle. Im still waiting for rear bearings to see what the newly ported M112 will do. I got big brakes to go on all around. I just finished my custom fan shroud and overflow tank and because I can never just do what I planned to do, I installed a tranny cooler. I am really surprised at the old stock tranny. It takes a licking and just keeps ticking:D

Ken

90blkbrd
01-08-2008, 08:18 PM
Tom,

I rode in Ken's car at the shootout and even drove it at the track. I don't remember any issues with idling or surging in his car (excluding warm up time).

(manual car) I don't see why my 570 lift 212 duration couldn't be in an auto car. It idles great at 600-700.

Michael

Jacob_Royer
01-09-2008, 04:39 AM
I've acutally picked up about 2hg of vacuum last few days..?? I have about 2500miles or so on the engine maybe its finally broke in? I do get an ocasional surge at idle but its not often.