Canadians Do you like your Universal health care?

[ricardoa1]

Id like to hear it from normal people like you guys. Is it good or does it suck.

Some of the US candidates for the presidency are pushing it, and all my friends think it sucks.

[LXSC]

In my opinion, I wouldn't want it any other way. Our healthcare, though it may have its shortfalls, guarantees that every single Canadian (regardless of level of income) can receive medical treatment with the peace of mind that they won't be paying for it for years to come. For years, America and the corporate interests that have run your healthcare system have demonized our healthcare as a kind of 'socialist healthcare' where no one gets what they need in terms of treatment and care. Nothing could be further from the truth. We still allow for healthcare plans and more specialized treatment for those who can afford it as well. More to come . . .

[ALS35]

I think that it only sucks if you have some kind of heinous disease that requires a lot of testing or hospital time. It causes increased wait times for specialized services and such. For the average person that is relatively healthy it is not so bad. You can go to the doctor and you don't see an outrageous bill afterward. It's all paid for by an employee tax that is paid by your employer. Part of the cost of doing business and having staff. The employee never sees the cost. You're still on your own for prescription meds though.
Alan

[fast Ed]

Well said. It does have its downfalls, but overall, it works pretty well. I can't imagine the medical bills some uninsured Americans must face when they have major health issues or injuries ... scary stuff IMO.


cheers
Ed N.

[vytas]

well i think US system sucks - for one simple reason - in canada you never have to read fine print about what you are covered for - and what is a pre-existing condition etc. ( i have relatives in US and know from them the nightmare of making claims for serious illness and conditions and dealing with insurance companies and fine print)

How good would it be if instead of all being protected by a local gov't police force, we all had to have private police insurance ? " sorry sir - you are covered for burglary but only to a value of $5000 - and not for assault - plus we see that you have been burglarized before - so according to your policy, you are no longer covered - so unless you are able to pay a full cost bill
($ thousands) for our services payable asap, we can't help you. Of course, if you are totally destitute we can send by our police-aid officer - someone should be dropping by hopfully next week sometime... "

Sounds silly ? But that is how things basically work in terms of health care in US as far as i know.

plus it makes your employers and esp. manufacturers carry the costs of health care for their employees - making the cost for individual companies of doing business in US higher. This is apparently very big issue in US auto industry as far i know.

i have an older cousin in US who would like to retire but can't - she needs to keep working otherwise she cannot afford health insurance. ( she has pre-existing condition - i.e. she has been sick) If she wants to maintain her current level of health care, she can never retire.

plus - in US there are a lot more unnecessary surgeries and procedures as many doctors have the incentive to operate to make more $ when they don't really need to - here that incentive is much weaker.

Plus it is pretty clear that the force that drives the private insurance system in US is the insurance industry special private interest - hardly a model of perfect competition anyway.

Also, there is a real cost to the economy of the US when so many of it's citizens have no health insurance.

i could go on ... but as you can tell i am a firm believer in some form of universal health coverage - it will never be perfect - and the Cdn system could use lots of improvement - but there is nothing to stop you from inventing your own "made in usa" version that is better - having some such system would be a big net improvement and truly make life much easier for most people in US imho.



(ps. since i mention auto industry - this technically qualifies as a car related thread i hope :-) )

[tbirdsc357]

I love our healthcare system, and wouldn't have it any other way.

I go to the doctor for whatever and don't have to pay a bill. My family has had a few major operations and for the most part they were all covered. I can't imagine what a major operation would cost in the US.

[fturner]

I gripe about our taxes, but all in all I'd keep paying those taxes if it helps to keep our health system intact. My son has CP and without the health care system I think we would have to live on the streets. Now my wife has been diagosed with RA. Thankfully the health care system here takes care of them without me having to worry about where the next meal is coming from.

[Toms-SC]

About 6 hours wait for care here in Alberta. I'd like to see some form of use payment to stop abuse. Such as $20 a visit.

[351tt]

I have read five replies up to Fturners and agree with them all.
I just had over a foot of my intestine removed just over a week ago, do I think the system is perfect, no , there is room for improvement as in any social system ,but do I think it is good , yes, absolutely.
I do believe that most of the US is run [ politically ] threw financial forces, systems including health,millitary and justice.
As I see it ,your country is on the edge of a tall cliff [ for many reasons ] , it is always important to use your " good honest " judgment in social politics as apposed to "me" judgment, governments [ in power and on the side lines waiting for the chance at power ] know how to manipulate... period, they know how to do what they want to do for their own interests.
It sounds like you are one of those people who treaten the ones in power, even if you choose to not go the way of universal, at least you are asking for others opinion instead of lining up with the status quo.
I think it was Socrates who said " the reasonable man adaptes himself to the world, the unreasonable man does not , therefor all changes rely on the unreasable man" , or something close to that.

I personally think both our political systems need a major overhaul in the accountability department, as in, if they make a campaign promise, put it in writing with the legal agreement that if they do not follow threw, they are out and the next in line moves in .. it would take a whole lot of the bullsh:)t factor out .
And yes I have been at both end of the economic scale, I have paid more taxes in some years than income I made previous, but , as my accountant stated.. if you pay lots, you made lots, and its what you can do with what is left over.. more is still more .
It seems to be a shell game ,the ones in power play with people to convince them to stay the course.
The "every man for themself" US system [ from this canadian perspective ] seems very basic instinct , a full on .. "pay for everyone for everything " system would be a disaster as well.
I feel at this point , the canadian system is somewhere in the middle [ but of course still needs and always will need tweeking as society changes its needs ].
A scenario...If your neighbour , actually no, just someone , was hurt in a car accident , or a plane crash , or whatever, and you were in the area on your way to work, would you stop and help or would you think, I am not wasting a days pay to help someone live or not ?, if not , why , and of course, would you not want others to do the same for you .
Think of the universal system that way .
Something is only good if its is good for the majority, otherwise its just greed .
There is not alot one can accomplish without good health, including a healthy society.
Stepping down now.
Dave.




Id like to hear it from normal people like you guys. Is it good or does it suck.

Some of the US candidates for the presidency are pushing it, and all my friends think it sucks.

[ALS35]

It's interesting that Dave touched on politicians. My two cents..... They are more interested in keeping their seats and winning it back in the next election than to try to execute any meaningful change. Politicians for the most part are the least qualified to run the government. The people that are the most qualified are happier running the business world and have more sense than to go into politics. We once had a prime minister that made up his caucus with businessmen and tried to execute change. Unfortunately he had a minority government and lost a non-confidence vote to the other power hungry party who then proceeded to run the country into massive debt.
I'll climb down off the stump now.
Alan
P.S. A car note, driving an SC in a blizzard is entertaining to say the least.

[coolhand]

The American Public,and politicians in General have a fear of the term "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE", with harbingers of Communism and the Cold War so recently past. Our Health care system was born in the western provinces out of a feeling that all people should have access to "good health". It was a communal plan, later adopted by the Federal Gov't.

Yes, It isnt perfect, but what the hell is? Long waiting lines in ER's, most of which is the fault of the people clogging up the ER's for treatment of colds, flu, minor aches and pains and services which could be handled in most clinics, is one of the prices we pay, but I have been to hospitals in the US which experience the same long delays. We experience delays in treatment of some debilitating illnesses, cancers and elective surgeries, but its a result of the "greater good" of the system itself. Many of our residents seek treatment in the US for some things, and some are covered by the health care plan.

Never having to pay for basic medical care, and that includes emergency dental care, and any meds prescribe by the ER or Clinic physician. Never having to pay the full cost of Ambulance use (billed $45 with many of our work plans covering that). Yes, we must pay for prescription meds, but most of us have plans for that and dental thru our employers. Our system guarantees that we will not have all the services available thru non-socialized medicine because the cost would be prohibitive. Our Physicians are not free to charge what they wish for the services they render, and that is why we lose so many to the American system. The American Physician will fight socialized medicine until the last body falls. It will cut into the huge salaries they generate. HMO's will go down kicking and screaming. The lobby groups for these two entities spend millions of dollars to assure that the politicians see things their way.

Be advised, though. We in Canada pays some of the highest Taxes in the world. We pay Goods and Services taxes on everything we purchase. We are a country of 30 odd miliion trying to operate on the tax base of a country with 250 million. Think what almost 50% in Taxes will do to your income? Understand that you will be paying for the services used by the less fortunate than yourself (though that happens even now). Many will complain that they rarely use the Health Care System and that there is no way they are paying for anyone else to do it. Prepare yourself for the onslaught, if and when you are ever fortunate enough to come under the blanket of SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE.
Good Luck and Be safe

Matt Leskiw
PS-sorry for being so long winded, its just my nature)

[z90sc]

About 6 hours wait for care here in Alberta. I'd like to see some form of use payment to stop abuse. Such as $20 a visit.

....lol..that's no different here.....
z

[351tt]

4-5 hours here if it is none life threatening... instant if it is [ I personally know this ].
any fee is just another tax, period...we already pay, which is a user fee.
If they had any sense there would be "clinics" beside every emerg to handle such cases..this is what the "fast track" system was, but they close after 10? or 11pm?.. people don't stop getting sick after that hour so ?????.. again , the emerg gets flooded.
One thing they are doing here [ Ontario ] is upgrading nurses so they can handle alot more of the load so doctors time can be spent more efficiently.. ie: not with colds, small cuts etc. .
Hopefully on the next revamp of the emerg/hospital system they will hire more nurses for the emerg to make things run that much smoother and quicker.
I imagine costs would be at least three to one , nurse to doctor salery.
Money could be better spent , hopefully in time.



About 6 hours wait for care here in Alberta. I'd like to see some form of use payment to stop abuse. Such as $20 a visit.

[decipha]

last year I was heading southbound on I-55 when the front driver side tire blew out on me, I pulled over to the shoulder got out checked the tire and the tread came completely off but the tire was still inflated so I drove another 3 blocks until it started leaking air. I pulled over to the shoulder again and parked the car on an angle with headlights and hazards... well i popped the hatch got the spare, jack, and lug wrench, I set the spare up against the side of the car and put the jack underneath, i broke the lugnuts free and when i stood up and turned to get the spare tire, an 18 wheeler hit the side swiped the side of the car, when he hit the spare his truck swerved to the left, when i seen the tire coming head on at me my reflexes made me jump up to the left in a sidestep motion turning my head away from being smashed, the truck was travelling too fast and i couldn't move quick enuff, I was struck on my right side and my body was propelled in the air landing me 200ft away from the car. The truck was doing an estimated 75-80 when he struck me. The truck driver probably thinking he just killed me sped away puffing black smoke. Truck was to far away to get the plate number. The force of the impact winded me and I couldn't breathe. My ribs where pushed back against my spinal cord making me completely paralyzed on my right side, I then felt my right hip throbbing with pain, when I looked down I seen my side was completely torn off and blood was just pouring out of my stomach. I some how (act of god) crawled back to the car pulling myself with my left arm and used my cell phone to call for help. I was rushed to river parish hospital. The laceration on my right side was so large the doctor had to use a full pack of stiching (first time he ever had to do that). I remember getting dizzy and slowly losing my sight, I seen beight spots of light popping up everywhere, after a few seconds i completely lost my vision, then i heard a ringing in my ears and lost my hearing, I was then rushed to east jefferson general hospital. I lost so much blood that my body began to overheat and temperature kept raising. At EJ I was given 5 simultaneous IV's to keep my alive. The doctor informed my family that I probably wasn't going to make it through the night. Sure enuff I did, when I woke up, I wasn't completely alert but I was recovering. they told me that I was never going to ever walk again. Well now (only 4 months later) I've made almost a full recovery.

goes to show what determination can do!

anyway, I'm left with $14,800 in medical bills since I don't have health insurance and the accident was a hit-and-run.

$150 a week for the next 2 years of my life really sucks :(

[coolhand]

anyway, I'm left with $14,800 in medical bills since I don't have health insurance and the accident was a hit-and-run.

$150 a week for the next 2 years of my life really sucks :(

Cost In Canada.......Zilch, nada, nothing. I am sorry this happened, but it illustrates just how insane it is to put an added burden on someone who has already been ill or injured. Never understood how you could heal properly with that kind of worry.

After I read this thread, I was watching Larry King Live. Michael Moore was the guest. He may be a bit off the wall, but he is a huge proponent of UNIVERSAL HEALTH care. They showed some stats re: countries providing adequate health care for its citizens. The US rates 37th in the world, Just above some place called SLOVENIA, I think. Thats pretty sad.

This probably wont happen none to soon. Maybe if we shoot all the lobbyists?
Its like the old joke about lawyers. What do you have if you find 10,000 lobbyists at the bottom of Lake Ontario..........A good start!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matt

PS..You might have to pay for crutches if you need them. My mistake. Bill=about $50

[HoseHead]

January 2007 I thought I was having a heart attack. I went to the local hospital was immediately admitted. I stayed for 6 days and was then transferred to the Heart Institute for an angiogram. The on where they run a fibre up an atery in your leg up through your torso and into your heart to check for blockages. I was given a clean bill of health, thankfully. It's a gastro intestinal issue that creates the same symptoms as an angina attack. I had world class care for 7 days in two facilities, ambulance between the two, numerous drugs, countless doctor consultations. Direct invoice to me.....not a dime. Nothing. Nada. I pay everytime I go to work or buy retail, but nothing directly. The higher taxes we pay to support universal health care is well worth it. You may never need it, but when you do, it will not place a long term financial burden on you or your family.

If you have an emergency here, you will be taken care of IMMEDIATELY by the best professionals in the industry. Even the Paramedics were nice. :)

Bruce

[Superbird281]

Ideally, 100% of the money people spend on health care should go to the people and supplies that provide the care. Unfortunately, in America, there's two massive parasitic costs that drive your health costs up: the insurance companies, and the lawyers. If you could figure out a way to squeeze those two entities out of the doctor-patient relationship, you'd be way ahead, without having to create a government monopoly.

[ALS35]

This just confirms the best thing you can say about Canada. You can pass out walking down the street here and someone will scoop you up and you will be taken care of. My father had this happen to him. He went out for a walk and colapsed from what I think was a stroke. First I heard about it he was in the emergency room getting world class care. You can say what you like about taxes and wait times etc. but when push comes to shove you get taken care of. Universal health care is something that the citizens of the US should be seriously pushing for. Should be the #1 issue in the elections you are suffering through right now.
Alan

[ricardoa1]

The heated debate didnt turn out so good with my friends. But its good to hear it from Joes like me and not the media.
It will never happen here, or at least anytime soon. Even if there was money to do it or if the new elected president pushes it. Its like legal corruption in the US.
And the amount of people that think its a communist act to have UHC are astaunding. There are also fears of the taxes affecting the rich more then the poor.

[Ira R.]

Well said. It does have its downfalls, but overall, it works pretty well. I can't imagine the medical bills some uninsured Americans must face when they have major health issues or injuries ... scary stuff IMO.


cheers
Ed N.

Ed hit it right on the nose. This is the overiding factor in any discussion about health care. Everyone needs it. Period. When you need care you're not interested in the administrative costs or the oversight or how much the drug company spent to get the doctor to prescribe their meds. All you care about is getting fixed.

Last June I spent 7 days in the hospital. Total bill = $125,000. The costs included an ER stay, medical transportation between facilities, a $62,000 medical device and an assortment of charges from the hospital and the numerous doctors and hospital staff who treated me. Total cost to us = $7,500 in deductables and charges caused by our system of usual and customary charges and non-participatory doctors.

Now I am at the extreme end of the spectrum here. The reason the system should be able to pay for me is because my kids get regular checkups and remain healthy. So if you average out what my family spends on health care over a period of time, it comes out even.

And that's why insurance company's cherry pick; because profits don't come by waiting for things to even out. So call it anything you want, but that is how a universal health care system operates and why it works. Of ocurse it's also a tough sell, because until things even out, it's easy to point to the deficits and shout the govt can't run anything. Unfortunatley, around here they are usually right what with the political hacks in charge and the large companies pushing their own agendas.

Now the disclaimer ;) none of this precludes the fact there are always going to be exceptions to the rules, and that cost savings can alway be found if the system were run more efficiently, reagardless of whether it is private or a function of the govt.

Ira

[ve3lt]

Some of the comments are quite long but to the point and soooooooooo true!

Here's mine...


Proud to be a Hoser! Wouldn't want it any other way.............


(so the answer is yes just incase you got lost in the verbal diareah???)

U.S Healthcare...NO THANKS!

[vytas]

i do believe that in terms of health care costs per capita or as a % of GDP or some other such goggly gook - canada actually spends a significant amount less for health care than US does - so the idea that US system is cheaper and hence more efficient is a myth -

[Paul93SC]

The guys here covered most of the relevant points with regard to our UHC system, so I won't add anything along those lines.

We (as Canadians) all love to bitch about our UHC shortcomings, but when asked if we would like to switch to a US-style system, an overwhelming 90% of us said "no freakin' way!" That says a lot right there... :)

[lazybird4pt6]

We (as Canadians) all love to bitch about our UHC shortcomings, but when asked if we would like to switch to a US-style system, an overwhelming 90% of us said "no freakin' way!" That says a lot right there... :)

Yeah, it says that we (Canadians) love whining and doing nothing about the problem.

If anyone has a problem with that feel free to write me a letter. :p :D

[Kingghost]

After me breaking my leg and two ribs in the US seeing the bill (Thank god for travel insurance) I will never bitch about Canadian Health Care! Albeit I do wish we were better like the UK.

[ALS35]

All they need to do in the UK is figure out how to fix teeth:D
Alan

[vytas]

.... or put fluoride in the water !!

[XR7 Dave]

My friend is 63yrs old. He is healthy for his age. He pays just over $1000/mo for a marginal healthcare plan. Since he only makes $24,000/yr that's 50% of his income on healthcare. Then he has to pay $2000 deductible up front and 30% after that. Oh ya, then you have to take out his $180/mo on medications. He needs knee surgury or he may have to quit his job. He can't afford knee surgery. He can't afford to lose his job. His outlook is understandably rather grim.

[vytas]

in Ontario once a person is over 65 - you pay a $150 annual deductible for prescribed medications - and all your medications after that are free. Of course, you must still pay the pharmacist their dispensing fee which varies anywhere from $4.00 to $11.00 per item depending on where you go. Also, there are various medications that are not covered - but often that depends on your diagnosis - in certain cases, for example MS - certain neuropathic drugs are covered - and so is Cesemet which is a marijauna based pain medication - whereas for other illnesses the same drugs are not covered - also, MS sufferers can get actual marijuana from the governement at a subsidized rate.

In Ontario there are non-profit organizations that also provide marijauna for people afflicted with chronic pain that operate quasi-legally, but they require you obtain your doctor's permission and cooperation before they will sell to you. The police and government know all about them but leave them alone.

Actually marijauna is often very effective for people suffering with chronic pain and has many fewer side effects than constant reliance on your typical anelgesics. I guess the point i am trying to illustrate is that apart from making life a bit easier for seniors who typically have a fixed income, the health system here tends to support and incorporate new ideas - even acupunture is covered in certain cases.

i can't see a private insurer ever agreeing to cover marijauna treatment !!