Michael 'Traveler' goes to the dyno

[2TonCat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYsA6lmHHTY

[351cat]

nice. It was wanting to go too, lol. Pulling against the reins like mine did. :)

EDIT: and it looks a lot different with the sport wheels on it instead of the cobras. what were the numbers? did he embarrass me? you can pm if u dont wanna post, i understand. :)

[traveler]

LOL Wow, you're fast on this thing!

Here are the results. Its a huge file so you'll just have to click the link till I can reduce it.

http://members.tccoa.com/traveler/Pics/DynoResults002.jpg

Thanks again for all the help Ryan.

[351cat]

sweet. You beat me on HP by quite a bit, but we're really close on torque. 'Cept mine peaks at ~2900 RPM :) i might as well have a diesel, lol. good numbers. You're just a smigin below Jason on HP. But the SC have that ridiculous force fed torque, lol.

EDIT: Forgot to ask, did they tweak on your tune at all or did they decide they didnt want to?

[sinhumane]

brad, here ya go.



<a href='http://media.putfile.com/Cougar-LS-351-Windsor-swap-dyno1'>Click here to watch 'Cougar-LS-351-Windsor-swap-dyno1'</a>

[351cat]

brad, here ya go.



<a href='http://media.putfile.com/Cougar-LS-351-Windsor-swap-dyno1'>Click here to watch 'Cougar-LS-351-Windsor-swap-dyno1'</a>


Thank you sir. I shall leave you alone now. At least about the video. :p

[thunderbird96]

not bad mike,but i expected more than that with what you have.

[2TonCat]

There's definitely more than meets the eye here folks...

The power curve up top seems pretty good really... but there's definitely a lot missing down low... If you plot the graph in excel rather than MCRacing's chart, you can clearly see that its not a nice pleasant arch as it should be... It grows exponentially until it makes it's peak power (like a turbo would) then very slowly drifts off... It should put out more horsepower below 4000rpms.

Also, the car was not at WOT until 3800rpms.

Jason, you should be in the 14s, and Michael, you should be trapping at a higher speed than you are.

[traveler]

Well, the 3.55's will help in that respect. And of course the new tune (once I get the chip (and the data) to Lonnie) should help in that respect as well.

Any ideas on why its doing so poorly down low? (And is it related to the pinging?)

[2TonCat]

Not quite sure yet man... I'll need a while to look at them still... Gotta compair your graph with that of someone else with a PI swap... then look at the timing curve, fuel trim, etc....

Its hard to say, but it seems like it hesitates to drop the AF down to a happy place. Won't know more for sure until I look at some more data. I just know there's more there.

[2TonCat]

Had a little more time to look at it...

mike is 20-21* timing between 3700 and 5000 (Strange...)
ryan is 18-24* timing between 3700 and 5000

mike's MAF counts are between 714 and 784 (Too Big?)
ryan's MAF counts are between 811 and 850

mike's Airflow is between 19.7 and 27.8 (Hello PI Swap :O)
ryan's Airflow is between 19.0 and 21.0

[traveler]

The MAF shouldn't be too big. Its only an 80mm Lightning MAF. Same size as is used on the Mustang GT's. I've always suspected the timing of being too far advanced. New tune is on the way...... maybe. Thanks for the info Ryan.

On the way home today the Speedometer/odometer ceased to function so I had to use the Tach to guesstimate speed. Yep, you guessed it, got a ticket on the way home. 80 in a 65. He said he saw me passing a car that was already doing 66. 60.00 Fine, 66.00 Court costs. Does that seem somewhat screwy to you to?

[2TonCat]

Michael, PM Me your e-mail so I can send you those datalogs.

[traveler]

Email sent....

[2TonCat]

E-mail sent :)

[traveler]

On the way home today the Speedometer/odometer ceased to function so I had to use the Tach to guesstimate speed. Yep, you guessed it, got a ticket on the way home. 80 in a 65. He said he saw me passing a car that was already doing 66. 60.00 Fine, 66.00 Court costs. Does that seem somewhat screwy to you to?

Well, it isn't the sending unit. I plugged the laptop into OBDII port and drove around the block. Its indicating speed on the software, so its getting a signal from somewhere. Now I have to put the original panel back in to see if the speedo is working. If the original speedo works then I know I've got a bad speedo. If so, I'll just keep the original unit, get a set of faces from Scott and call it good. No point in spending money on yet another SHO speedo. (I don't often go over 120 anyway :rolleyes:) Besides, I have to save money for the new tune, pay for the speeding ticket, my taxes, etc...

[2TonCat]

Hey ummm... Michael.... Run a compression test on your motor please.

[traveler]

Ok, I can do that if I can borrow (rent) a compression tester. Now you have to tell me... why? what are we looking for?

[2TonCat]

Nevermind. I got my compass out and figgured it out. See your post on tccoa.

[2TonCat]

Thats great news really... You were just spinning on the dyno, and the power wasn't being planted to the rollers... I wouldn't doubt that you made more power than you're actually showing

[traveler]

Well now that is good news! :D

So this summer we should head back with the bigger tires, and in warmer weather (Hence warmer rollers) and get better results.

Now, next thought/question. Would the slippage skew the data enough that it would be rendered not good enough for a new tune?

I ask because I just sent out an email to Lonnie.

[2TonCat]

The air fuel ratio at X RPMs is what he needs most...

Should be fine :) He really doesn't need to know how much HP it makes.

[traveler]

Somehow I knew you'd say that.

I've even had some thoughts and done some research into 80mm Mustang GT MAF vs. 80mm Lightning MAF. Just don't know bout all this. Ah well, time to get ready for work.

Lets set up a Dyno meet for this summer sometime (Late March, early April?) and do it again with new tune, big tires,etc.

Also, know anyone wanting to swap a set of 3.73's for a set of 3.55's? :D

[351cat]

There's actually a dyno near me, so if you have your tune by the 18th, we can run then. I'm gonna want to run the DOHC too. :D

[2TonCat]

Lets set up a Dyno meet for this summer sometime (Late March, early April?) and do it again with new tune, big tires,etc.

Also, know anyone wanting to swap a set of 3.73's for a set of 3.55's? :D

Now you're talking!! :D

[traveler]

If I can't get a set of 3.73's for an even swap or close to it, I'm still going with 3.55's. (Well, in May probably. I've got taxes and speeding fines to pay for)

[2TonCat]

Michael, have lonnie tune your chip for 3.55 shift points this time... (Or 3.73s if you can commit to them)

Gears are really an expensive change... Even after you have all of the parts... Say you put 3.55s in your car... The spedometer is off, but everything still works... Now, one day, you get adjitated that your speedometer won't tell the truth... so you run up to Ford, get a speedometer gear, and throw it in... You go out to drive, and decide to do a WOT run now that you can see how fast you're actually going, and you bounce off of the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd... Did you break your transmission??? Nope... Its another thing that bugs me about how these cars are tuned.... The shift points are based on MPH, not RPM (They did this to allow torque converter stall to not effect shift points)...

Say you used to shift at 6300.... at 45. (Numbers pulled out of my ~~~... Don't touch them!)
With gears, you WANT to shift at 6300 at 38.
With the spedometer not calibrated, 6300 is still reading at 45.
As soon as you calibrate it, 6300 is 38mph, but your computer shifts at 45.
Now you need a tune ;)

[traveler]

Makes sense to me, I'll hold off on the improved tune till the gears are built, I.E. I'll install tune and gears on the same day.

[2TonCat]

Hehe, Gears are soo easy to install, and they make soo much of a difference, but the electronics requirements are just a pain in the ~~~!! LOL!

If you really want to get trickey, you can match a differential to a J-mod, and run the stock tune :D Might experiment with Joel's if he decides to do a mild one :)

[351cat]

Can the force lube mod be done w/ trans in car, or does it need to be removed to do it. (found out the DOHC doesnt have it, and i'll wanna do it b4 4.10's)

[2TonCat]

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/picture20.jpg

From what I recall, you normally have bearings there... It's hard to say. I'm not sure that I would chance it, as there is a chance of ruining the part I'm trying to prevent from wearing out :) Maybee do it after they start to howl and need to be replaced anyway??

[351cat]

true, then i can just yank the tailhousing off and get me an aluminum d/s at the same time since it'll have to come out anyway. :)

[2TonCat]

Sounds like a plan... but didn't you say you had 3:73s?

I wonder what its shifting at...

[351cat]

lol, i dont even have the car yet. But yes it's got alan built 3.73s. i have no idea what it's shifting at, but i'll prolly get 4.10's eventually. The car has been tuned, but i dont know how its been tuned, lol.

[2TonCat]

Its been tuned by loading a premade tune onto an x-cal, plugging it into the OBD2 port, and flashing the stock computer... Didn't you see the picture?

[351cat]

Its been tuned by loading a premade tune onto an x-cal, plugging it into the OBD2 port, and flashing the stock computer... Didn't you see the picture?

Lol, maybe i worded it wrong. I meant i dont know what it's tuned for I.E. Gears, shift point, octane, etc. I know the jist of the SCT tuner thingy, lol.

[traveler]

Ok, I've got one that might be hard to believe....

As I've said already, my speedo went on the blink coming back from KC resulting in a speeding ticket. I checked the fuse for "cluster" and it was fine. Last night I noticed that my interior lights weren't working either. Again suspecting a fuse, I checked the fuse marked interior lights, and it was bad. Replaced it, the lights worked, all is well. And now the speedometer is working to. :confused:

So if your speedo ever goes on the fritz, check your interior lights!

[351cat]

lol, ford does have some interesting circuit crossing. Wiring diagrams are the only way to know for sure what fuse does what (and some of those are vague at best.) good 'ol ford :D

[sinhumane]

kindof liek the 94+ door ajar chime being integrated into the wiper relay unit? :confused:


i realized this when i disabled my dinger... then it rained.

me = :(

[seawalkersee]

Sooooo....how did we get here from the dyno? Seriously though, I never saw numbers on the Coug. Did it beat Mikes car?

Chris

[Melon]

Come on Chris - we can't keep a thread on topic - even when you threaten to hit them in the nuts :D

-Melon

[traveler]

Sooooo....how did we get here from the dyno? Seriously though, I never saw numbers on the Coug. Did it beat Mikes car?

Chris

LOL My fault. I mentioned that on the way HOME from KC (where the dyno is) my speedo blinked out, causing me to get a ticket. :mad:

Its fixed now (the speedo, not the ticket). Chris, any opinions on the dyno?

[351cat]

Sooooo....how did we get here from the dyno? Seriously though, I never saw numbers on the Coug. Did it beat Mikes car?

Chris

If your talking about mine, no it didnt beat mikes car. I made 170 hp and 280 ft pounds of torque, i think, i'll have to find the slip. If your talkin about Ryans, i dont know, lol.

[traveler]

I don't think Ryan (or his car :D) has been on the Dyno. The general consensus between Ryan and myself is that I'm putting out more power (PI swap, tune) than he is, however he's got better launch capabilities due to the high stall converter and the 4.10's.

[2TonCat]

Coug has not, and will not see the dyno... I put out 170ish horsepower +/-, but when I lock my converter, I see probably 5-10% more.

[Melon]

Hey Mike.. were you lookin for 3.73's?

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=109661

-Melon

[traveler]

I'll ask about it, but thats a chunk of change right now.

[Melon]

I didn't read the post THAT close - but if it's set and ready for installation, that's not a bad deal. I don't think it has TL though.. that part sucks.

But agreed - it is a chunk of change if you don't have it laying around.

-Melon

[traveler]

I asked. Its just the gears and the T/L. Not the case. I'd still have to pay for the assembly. I'll just stick to the 3.55's and parts I've got, unless someone wants to trade a set of 3.73's for them. Thanks for keeping an eye out though.

[Melon]

Ah yeah.. I read that as assembled in the case and no TL.

That's not that great of a deal then. Nothing to run out and take care of.

And not a prob :D

-Melon

[2TonCat]

Here's a nerd joke in the completely wrong thread...

Just because you bastards aren't posting anything!

A surgeon, a civil engineer and a software engineer were chatting at a bar. The discussion rolled around to whose profession was the oldest. The surgeon said that his was, since in the book of Genesis, God created Eve from one of Adam's ribs, and surely that involved surgery. The civil engineer countered by saying that before God created man, he created the heavens and the Earth from chaos, surely a feat of civil engineering. The software engineer just smiled and said "Where do you think the chaos came from?"

[traveler]

I just bought an 04 Mustang GT MAF meter. (you'll never believe what I paid for it) Now,I need to know before sending off the chip which would be better for my NA PI modified 4.6. The 80mm Mustang MAF or the 80mm Lightning MAF. I'm thinking the Mustang. Its newer, was made for a NA PI 4.6, etc. Opinions?

[seawalkersee]

Check with Lonnie, but I bet they will perform the exact same.

Chris

[2TonCat]

They'll be the same. The maf doesn't make the power, the motor does.

All you have to do is get a maf that will flow enough for your final goals with the car. If you tune it with that maf, you're just fine.l

[traveler]

I'm not expecting any more power from one or the other. But would one give more precise readings than the other?

[2TonCat]

Probably the N/A one. Very Very marginal though. Keep the lightning one incase you find a deal on a small blower down the line.

[traveler]

I'm not going to be going with a power adder unless I get a REAL deal on an Explorer PI Motor first. Remember, I'm already running PI heads on a NPI shortblock. That causes higher compression (IIRC). Putting on a blower is (in my opinion) just asking for trouble.

Now if I had a full Explorer PI motor.... :D

[2TonCat]

Just get a lightning block, and put a turbo on it :)

[traveler]

LOL You know, before I got on TCCoA and SCCoa, I always wanted to put a Lightning engine (blower and all) in a thunderbird. You know, "thunder and Lightning". Ain't happenin' now. I've learned enough not to try it. got more to learn.

I REALLY want an Explorer motor with an AED blower set up now. :D But not gonna happen on current income/debt level.

[traveler]

Ok guys, got a response from Lonnie on the GT MAF vs. the LMAF. it reads as follows:

The GT MAF will be a much better choice for your vehicle. You’ll have better fuel control and throttle response because the meter is calibrated for your typical air flow. Where as the LMAFs are calibrated for a much higher rate than you vehicle will produce.

So I'm going with the GT MAF of course. :D

[traveler]

Well, the news is late, but the entire intake is now 04 Mustang GT. from the CAI, the MAF to the TB and plenum. The car runs great, still has a very slight ping, but if I can get it to downshift it doesn't ping. Even the mileage has improved. Went to the Autocross in Salina and had a great time. But now I need to replace the upper control arms (bad ball joints). It has a rattle coming from the front and I can't tell if its the ball joints, or something else. Since I know the ball joints are going (the rubber boots are history) they're getting replaced first. If that fixes the noise, cool. If not.... just gotta keep looking.

[2TonCat]

At least the UCAs are cake :D

Can't wait to see what the GT does at the track now!

[traveler]

I'm glad to hear that. I've never done them before. I was glad to hear O'Reilly's had them in stock and they were less than I thought. And that they have grease zerks!

I hope to take it to the track soon. Just got to wait for a day off that coincides with a day the track is open.

[35thauto]

I was fooled by the sway bar end links, I thought the noise was the UCA''s so better check the links.

[traveler]

I'm pretty sure I replaced the links when I put the SC bar in. But I've been wrong before, I'll be sure and check them out as long as I've got it apart. thanks.

[2TonCat]

Upper ball joints are easy to check. When mine went out, I could grab on it, and squeeze the ball up into the socket it lives in with my hand.

The SWS is reading this forum. Hi Chris!

[seawalkersee]

Oh yeah...the UCA's aree a piece of cake. Jack it up. Take off the wheel. Pull the pinch bolt out. Here is the difference in your directions. If you have a pickle fork, use it and you will be golden. If not, take a pry bar and twist the sucker inside the pinch area of the spindle. Meanwhile, beating the living daylights out of it with a large hammer. Once that part is off, take a rachet wrench of the correct size (I THINK it is 18mm) and zip off the body mounting bolts. Pull it out and presto, you are golden.

Chris

[traveler]

Well, if thats all there is to it, I shouldn't have a problem. I've had the pinch bolts out, and the spindle out of the control arm before, so they aren't corroded on or anything. I'm more concerned with getting the body mounting bolts off. Well that and getting the alignment close enough.

[traveler]

Hey all you guys who have done the control arm thing before. Can I get a complete list of all the tools needed for it? I'm heading to my girlfriends house tomorrow to do the job (she has a nice dry garage) but will need to bring my own tools. A list would make this easier.

Thanks

[2TonCat]

As far as I remember, I did it with a couple sockets, and a hammer. Don't remember any more than that though.

[seawalkersee]

Get a regular wrench to break the body mounting bolts off and then use the same size rachet wrench to make it go fast. Wrench for the pinch bolt, hammer, and pry bar. Dont forget what it takes to remove the wheel/tire.

Chris