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DougD
02-17-2008, 04:23 AM
Hi Gang.

I've been spending hours reading about upgrades, tuning, etc. There's one thing (so far...heh heh heh) that I don't really understand.....

Let's say I install some of the usual upgrades (injectors, TB, MAF, etc) and want to get a chip from SCT (I see Super Coupe Performance sells them). So, I specify what changes I am making and they send me a chip, and I install it.

Now, here's the question: Would I be "good to go" or do I still have to take the car to a tuner guy with a dyno and have him dial it in to make it all work the way it should?

If so, where? I live in Podunk, Nowhere....no shop here has a dyno and guys familiar with SCs are not standing around on every street corner.

If this is a stupid question....well...just be gentle with me. I'm new :)

Thanks
Doug Dwyer

THE BIRDMAN
02-17-2008, 06:36 AM
If you want an SCT chip you should talk / e-mail Dave Dalke he is probably the #1 tuner for SC's so if your going to buy one buy from him I did as did a ton of other people on here.He can make you a chip that'll be close but to get 100% out of your mods you'll need a dyno tune.To get up with Dave his name on here is XR7 Dave and his e-mail is [email protected] just get up with him and he'll hook you up.



Jay

XR7 Dave
02-17-2008, 11:02 AM
Hi Gang.

I've been spending hours reading about upgrades, tuning, etc. There's one thing (so far...heh heh heh) that I don't really understand.....

Let's say I install some of the usual upgrades (injectors, TB, MAF, etc) and want to get a chip from SCT (I see Super Coupe Performance sells them). So, I specify what changes I am making and they send me a chip, and I install it.

Now, here's the question: Would I be "good to go" or do I still have to take the car to a tuner guy with a dyno and have him dial it in to make it all work the way it should?

If so, where? I live in Podunk, Nowhere....no shop here has a dyno and guys familiar with SCs are not standing around on every street corner.

If this is a stupid question....well...just be gentle with me. I'm new :)

Thanks
Doug Dwyer

The basic hardware that makes up the fuel/spark system of the car when it is stock have performance curves that were known to Ford when they built the car. They wrote a program based on those curves and then tested, on dyno's, the hardware many times to develop the program the car has. Whenever you change that hardware, it is first necessary to input the known curves for the new hardware. This is normally enough to get the car to run within OE parameters (the EEC has the ability to adjust on the fly +/- based on feedback from the 02 sensors). But there are things that affect the curves of the aftermarket parts that you and I are not always aware of. They can include everything from degradation of signals from old sensors to missalignment or improper installation of the new parts and/or quality control issues on the aftermarket parts. Sometimes the aftermarket parts aren't designed 100% in the first place and many times using them on an SC alone is a misapplication of the part because so few parts were ever actually made for an SC but are instead parts adapted from another application. This all adds up to variations that can make a "canned" tune less than 100% successful.

Due to time, distance, and cost it is not always practical to spend the amount of time road testing and dyno tuning that would be necessary to get the chip dialed in 100% so we go down a scale of minimum vs. optimal and pick our compromise.

If you have changed MAF sensors and/or injectors then you must get a chip or you have immediately given yourself a high level of compromise. The next step is to get a chip that at least puts the proper parameters in for the MAF and injectors that you are running. This can never hurt and will always help.

The next step is to check AFR which is normally done on a dyno. You don't have to have the tuner present to get a baseline done. With a baseline you can visually see how close the car is running compared to the stock tune. If the motor is running close to the stock tune then that tells us that your aftermarket hardware is working as it should. If the AFR is not correct then to avoid compromise you have to take it to the next level.

The next level will include some tuning of some sort. There are ways of tuning yourself, tuning via long distance working with a tuner (such as myself) or hooking up with a tuner locally or traveling to a tuning session to have it done.

A word to the wise is that tuning and chips can get expensive. It is always best to use as much foresight as possible and change key hardware points before tuning that will not have to be changed again down the road. MAF and injectors are by far the most important items affecting your tune. I suggest that when you are ready to make an injector or MAF change, you do them together and get a chip to match. Make sure that the injectors are going to be big enough to support your ultimate HP goals so that your chip won't have to be retuned as often as you add upgrades to the car.

I would say that 80% of all tuning is simply a matter of getting the information coming in from the sensor to match the profile that is in the computer. The OE program is actually very good on these cars once you have the information matching. The remaining percentage of the tune is comprised of tweaking the stock tune for maximum effect under the conditions that you specify. Attempts to tweak the tune before optimization of the stock tune has been completed is a mistake made by many "tuners" in an effort to sell chips. HP and MPG gains advertised by people selling chips should be a big red flag to consumers.

I sure wish SCCOA had a tuning forum. That would be a great place to discuss this further. Hopefully this will at least help get you headed in the right direction.

DougD
02-17-2008, 11:49 AM
If you want an SCT chip you should talk / e-mail Dave Dalke he is probably the #1 tuner for SC's so if your going to buy one buy from him I did as did a ton of other people on here.He can make you a chip that'll be close but to get 100% out of your mods you'll need a dyno tune.To get up with Dave his name on here is XR7 Dave and his e-mail is [email protected] just get up with him and he'll hook you up.



Jay


Thanks, Jay....and I think you're right about Dave :)

Doug Dwyer

DougD
02-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Dave, thanks for taking time to reply. I have a much better grasp of the situation now.

Doug Dwyer

Flex
02-17-2008, 03:11 PM
Doug,

Asking questions is not stupid. Not asking and blowing up your motor is. I'll second Jay's advice. If you are thinking about a bunch of upgrades along with a chip, hook up with someone knowledgeable and good at tuning like Dave. What year is your car?

DougD
02-17-2008, 05:00 PM
Mine is a 1990 5-speed.

To be honest I am leaning more towards the restoration side of things so I'm not planning any serious modifications. A few simple upgrades are hard to resist, though. :)

If I can pick up an extra 50 crank horsepower with some of the "level one" type bolts ons, I'll be happy. I just wanna make sure it all works, that's all.

What I want to avoid is a combination that doesn't give anticipated results and/or leaves me with six holed pistons after one blast at WOT.

I'm thinking of a good air intake (including MAF and TB), low restriction exhaust, intercooler fan, and a 5% pulley. That's it. If that combination requires bigger injectors and a chip, that's OK. But if I'm gonna have to find a dyno guy and spend umpteen hours and dollars of tweaking beyond that, I'll re-think my plans.

If I've interpreted Dave's words correctly, I think I'll probably be OK (that is, get a decent result although perhaps not a 100% optimal one) if I'm starting out with a healthy motor and all OEM engine management stuff being 100% up to snuff to begin with so that I don't have compound issues to compensate for.

I appreciate everyone's help :)

Thanks
Doug Dwyer

cmill95
02-17-2008, 05:25 PM
i have seen alot of threads that tell people not to spend money on a T/B and a larger MAFS until they go with more mods. U/D pulleys and overdriving the blower some along with a full exhaust and a fan or even a double I/C with fan might be money better spent. also if you only want 5%O/D you may think about the jack-shaft pulley first. alot easier to switch and as long as it's aluminum, you free up some H.P.also
just my$0.02:)