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Thread: Midwest Thread

  1. #1
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    Midwest Thread

    Now, I know we all have our less-thought-out moments, and fortunately the world is forgiving enough to let us look past those....

    What good are mistakes though, without learning from them?

    The midwest thread is locked.

    Does anyone remember why we MADE that 5000 reply thread???

    Oh it had a purpose, mind you.

    See... We have a problem when it comes to keeping ANYTHING on topic in this chapter.

    Someone had a brilliant idea of making a thread where we could put all of our random side-topics so that we didn't eithe A) Derail every thread in creation, or B) Overload the section forum with 1000 different useless topics.

    This worked great obviously, as by the number of replys to the thread!

    Unfortunately, SOMEBODY decided that it was a good idea to negate this previously brilliant idea, and lock the thread. Rattle the cage, why don't ya! It's common knowledge that monkeys like us fling poo. Why would you want to feed us laxatives? Seriously?

    Now I KNOW nobody here (including me) is mature enough to admit to overreacting, so we're stuck in this situation.

    What do you want from us? That thread surved a vital purpose with our group, and without it we are faced with two options:

    a) Go "Sinhumane" on threads all over creation like we used to...

    or

    b) Get lost and let you have your nice nursing home forum...

    An unvisited forum is as useless as uninterpreted rules protecting no-one.

  2. #2
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    Honestly, what kind of child views these forums? The youngest anyone is here is 16, its not Barney, boss, we aren't sitting here singing kumbaya, sharing stories with a moral. Its just random stuff, and implied profanity is one thing, but being damned into oblivion bevause we call someone a putz or a doofus is just rediculous.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
    Now, I know we all have our less-thought-out moments, and fortunately the world is forgiving enough to let us look past those....
    The world only forgives for so long until it lays the smackdown on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
    What good are mistakes though, without learning from them?

    The midwest thread is locked.
    The lack of learning from mistakes is what caused the thread to get locked. It was on very thin ice and that was made very clear. I have no idea what Andy's comment was, but apparently he was the unlucky one to finally break through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
    What do you want from us? That thread surved a vital purpose with our group, and without it we are faced with two options:

    a) Go "Sinhumane" on threads all over creation like we used to...

    or

    b) Get lost and let you have your nice nursing home forum...

    An unvisited forum is as useless as uninterpreted rules protecting no-one.
    They want you to follow the forum rules. How hard is that? If you cannot follow the simple rules, then do not post.

  4. #4
    Sxar summed it up.

    Many of you are missing the big picture here. This is THEIR house, not YOUR house, therefore, they are free to make up whatever rules they want (no matter how silly YOU might think they are) and enforce those rules.

    Hereís a simple analogy. Friends are invited over to another friends house where they all get together, drink, play games and watch TV. One or more friends decide that they feel like peeing in the corner of one of the bedrooms (Micah Miller style ) instead of using the bathroom. The owner of the house doesnít like that (why should he since it is HIS house) and makes up a rule that no one should pee anywhere except in the bathroom. The friends DECIDE itís a stupid rule and continue to pee where ever they like. The owner warns them a few times trying to stop the behavior but they donít and continue on. Finally, when the friends donít abide by the rule, the friends are locked out of the house while other friends are welcomed inside who abide by the rule the OWNER created.

    So, whoís in the wrong? The owner for having a rule the friends donít like (no matter how dumb it might be..it is his house so he is free to make up whatever rule he wants)? Or, the friends by not abiding by the rule that the owner has?
    SCCoA Member #247
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    That's apples to oranges, Duane. Its normal human behavior to tease and be humorous, is it human nature to piss in a corner?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nettlesd View Post
    Sxar summed it up.

    Many of you are missing the big picture here. This is THEIR house, not YOUR house, therefore, they are free to make up whatever rules they want (no matter how silly YOU might think they are) and enforce those rules.

    Hereís a simple analogy. Friends are invited over to another friends house where they all get together, drink, play games and watch TV. One or more friends decide that they feel like peeing in the corner of one of the bedrooms (Micah Miller style ) instead of using the bathroom. The owner of the house doesnít like that (why should he since it is HIS house) and makes up a rule that no one should pee anywhere except in the bathroom. The friends DECIDE itís a stupid rule and continue to pee where ever they like. The owner warns them a few times trying to stop the behavior but they donít and continue on. Finally, when the friends donít abide by the rule, the friends are locked out of the house while other friends are welcomed inside who abide by the rule the OWNER created.

    So, whoís in the wrong? The owner for having a rule the friends donít like (no matter how dumb it might be..it is his house so he is free to make up whatever rule he wants)? Or, the friends by not abiding by the rule that the owner has?
    It would appear as if we must move to a cooler person's house and should stop hanging out in the church.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sinhumane View Post
    That's apples to oranges, Duane. Its normal human behavior to tease and be humorous, is it human nature to piss in a corner?
    The principle still applies which is what I was trying to convey. For Micah it is.

    Also, SCCoA in not unlike any other forum. I thought a lot of you came from TCCoA because of the same issues.
    Last edited by Nettlesd; 08-06-2009 at 01:21 PM.
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  8. #8
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    i understand what you are trying to convey, but everyone needs to understand that as adults, we have a sense of humor, we joke, we call eachother doofuses and morons once in a while, we arent behaving like kids, we are just beiing friendly without being like the stars of barney and pals. we cut back on all the profanity and arguing, hoping we would be let alone about it when we joke once in awhile.

    i mean, couldnt be interpreted as "teasing" in its own sense? cmon, if we continue on this path, noone is going to be interested in even participating. we have young moldable minds at stake here, and when someone comes in and sees constant editing of posts by trigger happy moderators for rediculous things like calling someone a moron out of pure joking, they arent going to want to stick around. and i honestly see a problem with being edited every time i say putz, dummy, doofus or tard, just simply joking with another person...

    and interpreting things i say in place of profanity as 'implied profanity' is total crap... yes, crap, we're all out of kindergarden here, crap is not a foul word, its a word used in place of profanity that might offend some people, so, respectfully, we say crap, instead of.. well, the other word. we say fudge instead of its placeholder. we have bent over backwards to accomodate your requests, inform newcomers of the forum rules, and the rules continue to get stricter and more rediculous.

    i honestly like the guys we hang out with at meets, and trust me, things are far more profane and offensive when we are together in a group, as i'm sure it is everywhere else, even at the shootout. we do our best to keep it clean, and that should be recognized, not scrutinized.

    also, the reason most of us came form tccoa is because of the same reason that is happening here. trigger happy moderators deleting, altering, banning threads posts and people for rediculous reasons, and because people wanted to act like children over there. we're done being children (most of us anyways) and we dont deserve to be looked at like a pack of preschoolers who've learned dirty words from their parents.

    teh sinhumane hath spoken, word to yo momma.



    and whats funny about this thread.... its a discussion, not a blatant argument. there is NO reason why this should be locked or deleted so long as everyone minds their manners. once the weenie waving starts, i have no issue with it being locked. but just out of moderator spite is totally wrong.


    http://sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88159
    Last edited by sinhumane; 08-06-2009 at 01:54 PM.

  9. #9
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    Duane.

    Had an infraction more severe, such as if a member was posting pornographic images, your scenerio would be more accurate.

    Here's a more accurate summary.

    JoeBob is a decent guy, and he likes to have friends over to party.

    At said party, he hears one of his old friends Dick call his other friend Peter a moron, obviously in jest.

    JoeBob has told his friend "no name calling" before, and doesn't want his other friend's feelings to get hurt.

    Though Dick and Peter were just messing around, JoeBob runs in like a caped super hero and scolds Dick for his "Harsh Words".

    Meanwhile, JoeBob's wife, Virginia is overhearing the commotion and how JoeBob is infuriated by such a trivial incident.

    Virginia, in order to stop the instanity of JoeBob, then throws everyone out of the party and locks the door.

    The party guests are left disappointed, and upset, under the impression that JoeBob and Virginia have lost their minds.

    The happy couple's only rationality for the dissapointment is "Well you should have followed the rules!"
    Duane and Tony, You are a perfect example of the Stanford Prison Experiment. You were given a title of authority, and once under that title, you assume the role as it has been protrayed to you in the past and neglect to actually think about your actions.

    A rational human being would have said "Hey Duffy, Look, I know they seem like they're at eachother's throats, and thats nothing to worry about! That's how they behave in real life, every one of them knows they are just messing around with eachother." It's as simple as that. This is especially true for YOU, Duane! You've been to meets, and know the people involved! We've been here for YEARS with eachother without administrative stockades, yet every mentally stable one of us has remained!

    Unfortunately, the title clouds rationality. You are now an "Enforcer" of these rules, and it is your job to mindlessly punish any person slightly out of line without a care as to what is even transpiring.

    And Hey, here's a brilliant idea. If someone is offended.... let them press the little red "Report Post" button themselves. Trolling the forum looking for any possible infraction, casual or malicious, is obserd.

    The original point of having rules was to protect people and keep order. Somewhere that meaning has gotten lost in an epic power trip of commanding undenyable obediance.

    Open your eyes. We are messing with our real life friends here, not brutally attacking and berating newcommers.

    Duane, wasn't moderator status given to you because, through knowing us, you could make an informed judgement on whether our group is getting out of hand or just having fun? Extending unbiassed dominance upon everyone without reguard for the causality of their actions is far from using your personal experiences with the group to promote order.

    We get it though. In the end, it is your house, and you get to make the rules that decide who stays and who goes. Hoepfully you won't kick all of your friends out into the street for simply acting like normal human beings. Ease up a bit so you have some friends left at the end of the day to share a brew with, alright?

    After all, without us, there is no Midwest chapter. Tyler and I stop posting, so Jon has no reason to comment. Andy has no one to call names. Joel has no one to show his mustang off to, Jim and Danny have far less people who care to share their progress with, we all basically stop talking, and what was once a community is now a plain white padded wall of an insane asylum. How many meets and get-togeathers do you think we'll see in the years to come if everyone goes their own ways??

    You're asking us to be what we are not, and no matter how hard we try, people simply don't change. I hope you like driving to St.Louis to do anyting remotely Thunderbird related... Or heck, maybe you'll leave entirely and sell your Thunderbird for a "Real" car... Like a stock GT500. Those are unique.... Maybe the kids on the Mustang forums will like being told not to tease their own friends.

  10. #10
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    This is what happens when you push the envelope that far. You get scrutinized that much more. While things have toned down, there are still posts that show up here that leave me thinking that the offender really doesn't care to follow the rules as stated.

    The following is my opinion, but you either have to live with the increased scrutiny or move on. Things in here went to far and now you have to deal with the consequences. I would like to believe some of the editing wouldn't have been done if there had not been an issue in the first place. Maybe in the future it will be more relaxed.

    I normally visit here just to get an idea of what some of the other Midwest guys are up to, so it would be a shame if people left.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nettlesd View Post
    Also, SCCoA in not unlike any other forum. I thought a lot of you came from TCCoA because of the same issues.
    The rule in question is not the same as the successful forums' rules on the issue..

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
    And Hey, here's a brilliant idea. If someone is offended.... let them press the little red "Report Post" button themselves. Trolling the forum looking for any possible infraction, casual or malicious, is obserd.
    Thatís exactly what happened. Someone hit the red button and reported the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silenced View Post
    After all, without us, there is no Midwest chapter.
    Wrong. Other people also use this forum.
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  13. #13
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    As has been repeatedly explained on this board this is a VERY limited form of communication. The moderators (except in select cases) do not have the benefit of being able to discern context for comments made and "insults" laid out there for all to see. Nor do people that visit the board and do not know the "history" or the players. All the moderators (or visitors) "see" are the words. And if I visited a new board to check it out and saw some of the same stuff I have seen in this forum I would not venture into that place again.

    For many years there were no posting rules and we got along. Then it appeared that moderators had to step in more and more often to stop inappropriate behavior on the board. People got offended and went off on each other...repeatedly. THAT is the reason the posting rules were written. I wrote them and modified them as needed based on input from George. Remember some of the characters that went off on essentially everyone except their few "select" friends? They aren't around anymore are they? Why?????? Because they were disruptive and driving people off of the board.

    I do not "troll" looking for "trouble". Since I have posted in many of these threads I "see" all the subsequent responses. Perhaps it is different for folks that are not moderators...perhaps they only see some of the posts pop up based on how often the visit/post in a thread. I don't know nor does it really matter.

    Folks have been asked to "cool" it....by me....by Duane and Tony. While profanity has recently been reduced other types of posting rule infractions continue unabated.

    Duane and Tony both volunteered for the moderator positions they hold. They weren't "given" anything of worth to me ...other than a headache I share with them.

    It does make me wonder if when you guys are together if you would in fact deal with each other in the same manner if you knew you were being observed by folks you respect and would not want to offend? I also wonder if you would speak in the same way in front of your children or significant other?

    As stated the posting rules are pretty simple and not all that restrictive. Wait and see what they become like if we have to live by the new Trademark Approval terms we got from Ford.

    There are MANY ways to joke around and make fun of someone without calling them names or using profanity....all it takes is some imagination. And it can ALL be done within the limitations of the posting rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy Floyd View Post
    As has been repeatedly explained on this board this is a VERY limited form of communication. The moderators (except in select cases) do not have the benefit of being able to discern context for comments made and "insults" laid out there for all to see. Nor do people that visit the board and do not know the "history" or the players. All the moderators (or visitors) "see" are the words. And if I visited a new board to check it out and saw some of the same stuff I have seen in this forum I would not venture into that place again.

    For many years there were no posting rules and we got along. Then it appeared that moderators had to step in more and more often to stop inappropriate behavior on the board. People got offended and went off on each other...repeatedly. THAT is the reason the posting rules were written. I wrote them and modified them as needed based on input from George. Remember some of the characters that went off on essentially everyone except their few "select" friends? They aren't around anymore are they? Why?????? Because they were disruptive and driving people off of the board.

    I do not "troll" looking for "trouble". Since I have posted in many of these threads I "see" all the subsequent responses. Perhaps it is different for folks that are not moderators...perhaps they only see some of the posts pop up based on how often the visit/post in a thread. I don't know nor does it really matter.

    Folks have been asked to "cool" it....by me....by Duane and Tony. While profanity has recently been reduced other types of posting rule infractions continue unabated.

    Duane and Tony both volunteered for the moderator positions they hold. They weren't "given" anything of worth to me ...other than a headache I share with them.

    It does make me wonder if when you guys are together if you would in fact deal with each other in the same manner if you knew you were being observed by folks you respect and would not want to offend? I also wonder if you would speak in the same way in front of your children or significant other?

    As stated the posting rules are pretty simple and not all that restrictive. Wait and see what they become like if we have to live by the new Trademark Approval terms we got from Ford.

    There are MANY ways to joke around and make fun of someone without calling them names or using profanity....all it takes is some imagination. And it can ALL be done within the limitations of the posting rules.
    Here's what gets me about profanity..

    It doesn't matter what the word is, the F bomb means to have sex. Now, if I stub my toe, and yell, "FUDGE!" does it have the same meaning if I stubbed my toe and dropped the F bomb instead? If we invented clever insults that aren't profane, are they any more or less insulting than using the actual profanity? No.

    In regards to talking like this in front of our S/O or children, well there is one thing I can say about that: we aren't in front of our S/O or children. Aren't you a guy? When you have sex, do you yell out, "Oh goodness gracious!" or do you yell something dirty? The point is that our language changes based on the environment. When we are with guys, we can use profanity because that is just what guys do. The forum doesn't have kids and our S/O's running rampant here, so we expect to talk like guys. Do you think in the army, where you are surrounded by men, you have a bunch of people talking like liberal yuppies? Of course not.

    The point that I'm trying to make here is that the reason why I don't post here often is because when the rule is stupid, I don't follow it. Following a stupid rule only brings you down to the level of the rule. And thankfully, I'm not at that level.

    -Travis

    PS-If this post is too offensive for you, just delete my post and not the thread, plzthx.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy Floyd View Post
    And if I visited a new board to check it out and saw some of the same stuff I have seen in this forum I would not venture into that place again.
    I do see where you're comming from, and your point has grounds. I still refuse to believe that rational people will pass judgement on an establishment solely based on a few select people. Would you avoid a bar because a few guys got too drunk and started fighting?

    I do not "troll" looking for "trouble". Since I have posted in many of these threads I "see" all the subsequent responses. Perhaps it is different for folks that are not moderators...
    My misunderstanding. I was lost as to why anyone besides our group would be in the midwest thread.

    Folks have been asked to "cool" it....by me....by Duane and Tony. While profanity has recently been reduced other types of posting rule infractions continue unabated.
    We're trying here, boss! Things were getting better, then Andy opens his mouth one time, and it's Civil war again!

    Duane and Tony both volunteered for the moderator positions they hold. They weren't "given" anything of worth to me ...other than a headache I share with them.
    Ah, I was under the impression that they were logically selected for an actual reason such as knowing "who is who" rather than on a voulinteer basis.

    It does make me wonder if when you guys are together if you would in fact deal with each other in the same manner if you knew you were being observed by folks you respect and would not want to offend? I also wonder if you would speak in the same way in front of your children or significant other?
    Unable to speak for everyone else, I can only say that I am always true to who I am. I have my own views, opinions, feelings, demeanor, and others should accept that. If they pass judgement on my character by how I interact with my friends, so be it. I respect them enough to be a real person rather than a ficade of happy bunnies.

    The funny thing about being offended... Is that it's a concious choice made by social bounds. One thing may be offensive to a certain group, while it is perfectly normal to another. Should one culture be squandered in order to prevent another from making an irrational choice of feeling bad?? Persoanlly, I like to be happy, and if I remain unoffended, I can retain that. Words are harmless. It's the choice people make to internalize them that does damage.

    Would I speak the same infront of my significant other? Absolutely. If I'm actually going to care about another living being, I want to be completely comfortable with them. Enough so that I can be myself, and be confident that they can and do accept me for who I am.

    Would I speak the same infront of my children? This is the only grey area in my mind about the subject. Hypothetically, if I wanted to have a child, I would make sure (s)he knows the consequences of said language. I am perfectly fine with my hypothetical children using explitives when the time arises. Consequently, I would also want my child to know that other parents are frequently up-tight about these words, and would ruin perfectly good relationships because hearing such "vulgar language" apparently does more irreparale damage than losing a best friend.

    As stated the posting rules are pretty simple and not all that restrictive. Wait and see what they become like if we have to live by the new Trademark Approval terms we got from Ford.
    While trying to avoid lessening the awesomeness of your efforts, I hope this day never comes. Sacraficing freedom at the cost of a special golden sticker of approval seems futile to me.

    There are MANY ways to joke around and make fun of someone without calling them names or using profanity....all it takes is some imagination. And it can ALL be done within the limitations of the posting rules.
    This is very valid, and as we have seen in the past, select users apparently chose to step into other people's business and press the "Report Post" button for their "friend", the recipient of said comment. This, I assume, forces you to have to review said posts, correct? I would imagine this would put a negative light on anything seen, as the intended implication of a "Reported" post implies that another member has already passed a negative judgement. Additionally, having to deal with the arduous task of reviewing every reported post puts you, the administrator, in a poor mood to begin with. It would take a very objective eye to look past this.

    All I am saying is that the punishment should correspond to the crime. As a group, even, we were getting progressively better and better. The punishment should remain consistant in any type of conditioning. Lessening amounts of discipline, and the effectiveness wears off for obvious reasons. Increasing intensity, and the person you are trying to condition becomes discouraged and gets the mindset of "What's the point, they will just ask for more and more!"

    Imagine you have a kid in middle school who gets Ds. You want them to get As. You tell them they lose their allowance every week until they get straight As. What would you expect the child to do when you tell them they have worked hard, and are now getting Bs, and you step up the punishment to "No allowance OR Cell Phone" until they make the extra effort to get that A?? Great motivation tactic there!! .....

    I've always been a fan of public humiliation. A stickied thread called "Meanie-Heads: Melon, 2TC, Sinhumane, etc." listing all of the week's antagonists in the title would be entertaining. Then the forum members can point and laugh at those on the post of shame.

    But locking the thread? Seriously? What does that even solve?
    Last edited by Silenced; 08-07-2009 at 11:05 AM.

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