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Thread: From Mount Intercooler with inlet outlet same side?

  1. #1
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    From Mount Intercooler with inlet outlet same side?

    I know there is much debate about IC that have inlets and outlets on the same side with a vertical core pattern. I guess id does not provide a long enough surface area to cool down the charge. But I am looking to see if this other same side IC design is better for Eaton applications over 20psi? It is an inexpensive IC and provided that the cores are of ok design is this design going to provide enough flow on our application to give us good performance gains. SC outlet temps will be very high on my application so I do think that the IC provides good surface area too cool down the charge, just not sure about flow. BTW another member has already fitted the IC on our cars and it seems to be a very good fit thats why it is attractive to me, since it does not reqire piping the whole car and it only needs a shorter condenser to keep AC and factory fan intact. The other SC application is a mild build so, and no data was ever pulled to see how well it worked, so I am now curious about it since i am interested. Any comments?







    From thread....
    http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthre...highlight=fmic
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  2. #2
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    Why not go with horizontal tanks with a vertical core?

    The thread has good comments, the silicone elbows will collapse during vacuum and eventually tear.


    the only difference i found versus a higher quality and less expensive one is the way the fin and tube is shaped and the fin density, perhaps the higher quality will give you 20*F cooler charge but for 4x price I'll go with the inexpensive built one for now, luckily the inexpensive built one's copy the dimensions of the high quality ones so I can always go to a higher quality one without major mods. As long as the air makes contact with the core fins your gonna get heat exchange.

    Your a bit ahead of me, I just picked up a air temp gauge which I can datalog and hope to see the temps on the M90.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=grey500se;850686]Why not go with horizontal tanks with a vertical core?
    [QUOTE]


    That design offers alot more air flow but provides less cooling, there has been discussions on that particular style and for a HEATOn I mean Eaton, It does not allow the air to cool down enough since it there not enough surface area for cooling. So I read anyways.

    Here is the thread on that syle IC. Not alot of positive comments.
    http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90289
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 11-09-2009 at 01:10 PM.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  4. #4
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    I have a front mounted vertical flow design i/c with inlets on the same side and I know from first hand experience it cools exceptionally well. After repeated WOT runs at the Shootout close to back to back, all the info I needed was my hand grabbing the inlet and outlet pipes to see how hot(inlet) and cool(outlet) they were. That let me know how efficient my set-up was at lowering the air charge temperature. By the way, I'm running a Heaton..........MPX. So far a 12.216 e/t.............
    SCCOA Member #2406
    '94 SC AUTO - $$$$ Pit
    http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_v..._vehicle&id=19

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickleman60 View Post
    I have a front mounted vertical flow design i/c with inlets on the same side and I know from first hand experience it cools exceptionally well. After repeated WOT runs at the Shootout close to back to back, all the info I needed was my hand grabbing the inlet and outlet pipes to see how hot(inlet) and cool(outlet) they were. That let me know how efficient my set-up was at lowering the air charge temperature. So far a 12.216 e/t.............
    Mitchell, do you have actual temp readings? Id like to know what they were, Im not throwing the idea of that style out. I just need a good IC since not even my MPIC was able to handle the temperatures that my set up pumps out of the SC with 21-22lbs of boost, and popular opinion did not agree that it was a good design. BTW when using nitrous the car produced lots of power since the intake charge gets below 60deg so a poor IC becomes a really good one.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  6. #6
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    why you pickin on me Ricardo ?

    i think the one in your post is better than the one i have. it looks like it actually has to make 2 passes before exiting. and it looks taller.

    i dont think the IC i have is a terrible one. i was running 15-ish psi for 3 runs in 1 hours time. everytime a grabbed the oulet IC pipe it was still cool.

    i've been planning on putting an air temp gauge in the return plenum so i can see how well its doing.
    Last edited by thunderkid84; 11-09-2009 at 01:58 PM.

  7. #7
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    Personally, I think everyone needs to step back a minute and start looking at the whole picture, and not just the IC itself.

    Saying the IC was cool to the touch doesn't mean anything, as the fact is, ACT's could still be going through the roof because the IC could be so inefficient its not transferring any heat so its not getting heat soaked. I've datalogged plenty of cars now that have seen 180F+ ACT temps and you could freeze a burger on the IC its so cold. Besides, running nitrous does help cool things down to .

    The biggest most important thing that has to be looked at is the air flow and pressure zones in front of and behind the IC. The greater the pressure differential between the front and the back the more air will flow through the IC to remove heat.... this is VERY critical, but everyone seems to ignore that. This has led to the belief that gigantic IC's meant for an aircraft carrier is the only way to go because you are totally dependent on the IC absorbing all the heat and not removing it from the IC itself.

    By closely studying, and possibly even measuring air pressure zones in the area underneath the bumper, behind the bumper, in front of the rad and so on will help determine the best area's to mount an IC, and what size you really need. Running an IC from a transport truck seems a bit excessive to me and I bet is NOT needed .

    Start with the basics of physics to determine the best area etc, and that is to remember that low velocity air produces high pressure, and high velocity air produces a low pressure zone..... so look how you can produce that environment, and then I bet you could run a nice small intercooler without affecting air flow through the rad to keep ECT's in line as well.

    With the inexpensive tools etc that we have available to us these days for data capture etc, there is no reason why we can't once and for all determine an ideal IC setup for these cars.... If I had the funds to buy an intercooler that I think will work and everything to go with it, I'd be all over it proving it to work.

    Fraser

  8. #8
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    Most of the cooling in any IC is actually done within the first 6 inches of the core. Any additional length improves cooling, but gains from a 30in core vs an 18in core are minimal. With that being said, the core itself is an important factor in any IC system. Most IC's out there today, whether is be ebay or a major company are typically bar and plate style vs. tube and fin. In my opinion, the bar and plate systems perform better.

    One could therotically figure out the cooling performance on that core by doing some heat exchanger sizing and basic heat transfer calcs, and my gut says that it's more than capable of providing the performace that you're looking for. If you want, I could put something together, perhaps a spreadsheet, showing cooling performance as a function of airflow, inlet temps, length, ect. I've seen plenty of threads where people install some huge 30in IC core that is 4" thick, with 3" pipe. Totally unnessesary. 98% of the discussion around here about IC performance is based off of opinions, with no factual information to support their claims. With that being said, I would take discussion about these things lightly until you are able to either see some comparison numbers or some calculations.

    To be honest, I wish a style like that was available when I built my system years ago. I'm not sure if you remember my system, but it is similar length and width, and it provides substantial cooling capabilities. I have mine located between the frame rails, in front of the AC condenser, which I believe is the best location. With the size core that you have pictured, you could easilly place it in that location, and still maintain the AC, assuming that you switch to a shorter core (could can get a new Bronco II core for $88).

    Personally, I wouldn't run the elbows as pictured. I would use a welded elbow, and then connect the main piping via hump-style hoses. You could make an entire system using stainless tubing, fully polished for under $300. Sounds like a good winter project to me....

  9. #9
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TR-62...Q5fAccessories


    This would plumb about the same as a same side I/O, would just have a pipe mounted above it coming back across.
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
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  10. #10
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    Zimbo, I like that. I think it could work well with some fabrication.

    Corey

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzimmerl View Post
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TR-62...Q5fAccessories


    This would plumb about the same as a same side I/O, would just have a pipe mounted above it coming back across.
    But then a IC pipe would be blocking flow to the radiator.

    IMO An IC with inlet and outlet on one side is a good trade-off, it would have a little less cooling affect on the air temps but more air flow to the radiator. Not to mention it would be easier to plumb.

  12. #12
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    But then a IC pipe would be blocking flow to the radiator.

    Maybe, but I bet you could get it to run right along the bumber. The only downside is its only got 2.5" I/O which could prob be changed with a little cutting and welding.
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
    1990 SC AOD 2.1L Kenne Bell
    11.676 @ 121.35 mph
    506hp/478tq
    My Garage

  13. #13
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    I was not knocking on anyones set up, but i wanted to make an educated decision on the set up. I had like I said the MP system on the eaton set up and without the alky I was getting temps over 130 and climbing when WOT, and some will say that that core is prettty top notch in terms of flow and capabilities. But Im sick of fighting summer heat and air conditioner problems IMO the mp fan is not up for the task of stock sized radiator support when the AC is on or during long extended WOT usage. So I want to retain the factory fan as I think that it can move good amounts of air to keep things cool. Plus I dont want to spend $1300 for a set up that has only given me grief.

    So this IC design becomes attractive to me as mentioned i can get a shorter condenser and keep my factory fan and radiator. Less things to change out.

    But I question the fact that it only has eight or so tubes to flow tru then needs to make a uturn and go thru 8~ tubes again before exiting.
    While the conventional design goes thru 16~ or so tubes at the same time and exit at the same time with no uturn.


    If someone can tell me that the same principles of physics apply to both designs then I can be at ease.
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 11-10-2009 at 12:37 PM.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  14. #14
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    Here is a fancy photoshot of my dilema.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  15. #15
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    sounds like its time to do some flow simulation comparing both versions.

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