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Thread: Autorotor question

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    They all perform well, but as some of us have found out the 3.8l can only digest so much blower. TVS is the outlier. Do you want 20+ psi? and can you put that to good use ie race fuel. The bigger blowers are more at home on the 4.2l cranked cars on 93. But at this point is what you can find or what SCU or Ken W. is willing to build. They all can make 450whp all day everyday on the right engine.

    To get to 600 with PD we need heads.

    What is PD...Positive Displacement ? It's not just better heads, you also need a matching intake manifold, which is probably more difficult to build if you want to continue mounting the supercharger on top of it. Then all the supporting stuff would likely require changes too. Before doing that, most people would opt for an aftermarket v8 or more modern motor like Ecoboost 3.5 or Coyote 5.0.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat.............10.597 @ 135.78

    My Garage

  2. #32
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    If i had the money, i would like to find the ecoboost v6 my self. Not sure what i could do but i think it would be a good fit for the coupe.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
    What is PD...Positive Displacement ? It's not just better heads, you also need a matching intake manifold, which is probably more difficult to build if you want to continue mounting the supercharger on top of it. Then all the supporting stuff would likely require changes too. Before doing that, most people would opt for an aftermarket v8 or more modern motor like Ecoboost 3.5 or Coyote 5.0.

    David
    I think some of us don't want to swap anything really. And yes a set of heads even with a marginal improved intake manifold would be beneficial, I don't feel the intake is as much of a handicap as we make it out to be. Yes longer runners are good for top end HP but the blower is shoving air so less of a variable. Looking at my coyote set up with the PD blower the manifold is nothing to brag about and has the built in IC. But I'm not engine specialist in this group so its all speculation. My point was that the current blower offerings is plenty. Don't forget a street sc engine is not the same as a Race set up, and a 4.3 vs 3.8 also behave differently.

  4. #34
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    Considering the current sc's in the Group, what's the difference between a race and street motor?

    I don't know of anyone that's done a "race" style van motor yet. But maybe I'm missing someone?



    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    Don't forget a street sc engine is not the same as a Race set up, and a 4.3 vs 3.8 also behave differently.
    Making woosh sounds since 2010!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
    What is PD...Positive Displacement ? It's not just better heads, you also need a matching intake manifold, which is probably more difficult to build if you want to continue mounting the supercharger on top of it. Then all the supporting stuff would likely require changes too. Before doing that, most people would opt for an aftermarket v8 or more modern motor like Ecoboost 3.5 or Coyote 5.0.

    David
    Let me first confess for those of you who don't know me or my car, that I am an Autorotor guy and it is the reason I overlooked all of the problems the car had when I bought it. It is the sole reason I bought the car. Now to what David wrote.

    What you say is all very true, but what I think Ricardo and you forget, and I am surprised because you have always been a proponent of experimenting with what it takes to make the SC bigger and better, is that we're building these cars because it is what we do. We accept the challenge of making the engines bigger and better. Sure, we can go out and buy something with 500rwhp but what fun is that? Call it a hobby if you like, but this isn't about seeing what an aftermarket engine can do. It's about seeing what our engines can do. Now some of us have done a lot more experimenting than others, so I don't know that making comparisons between cars and blowers and what we did to make our engines run better is fair. But I think what it comes down to is whether or not you are of a mind to see what you can learn from what someone else did and build something bigger and better.

    Now if that is not what you have in mind that's fine too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a clean stock SC running as it should. In fact, I would argue that doing that may very well be more difficult than trying to build something more. But that is not what this thread is about. Sorry.

    For myself, I still don't think we have reached the limit of what the engine can do.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverfastenough View Post
    Considering the current sc's in the Group, what's the difference between a race and street motor?

    I don't know of anyone that's done a "race" style van motor yet. But maybe I'm missing someone?
    The difference is a car with a outrageous camshaft and valvetrain to take it to 8000 rpms vs one that Doesnít need he throttle from keeping it from stalling. I guess my definition of race is different than yours. But anything that you do to an engine with a complete disregard about driveability to me is a race mod.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverfastenough View Post
    ...what's the difference between a race and street motor?
    One of them comes with a two-axle trailer.
    Last edited by KMT; 12-26-2018 at 01:55 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira R. View Post
    Let me first confess for those of you who don't know me or my car, that I am an Autorotor guy and it is the reason I overlooked all of the problems the car had when I bought it. It is the sole reason I bought the car. Now to what David wrote.

    What you say is all very true, but what I think Ricardo and you forget, and I am surprised because you have always been a proponent of experimenting with what it takes to make the SC bigger and better, is that we're building these cars because it is what we do. We accept the challenge of making the engines bigger and better. Sure, we can go out and buy something with 500rwhp but what fun is that? Call it a hobby if you like, but this isn't about seeing what an aftermarket engine can do. It's about seeing what our engines can do. Now some of us have done a lot more experimenting than others, so I don't know that making comparisons between cars and blowers and what we did to make our engines run better is fair. But I think what it comes down to is whether or not you are of a mind to see what you can learn from what someone else did and build something bigger and better.

    Now if that is not what you have in mind that's fine too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a clean stock SC running as it should. In fact, I would argue that doing that may very well be more difficult than trying to build something more. But that is not what this thread is about. Sorry.

    For myself, I still don't think we have reached the limit of what the engine can do.

    Ira I think we are on the same camp. There are for the most part three types of ppl more or less in any type of performance oriented trim model. The purist that leave it stock, the bolt on ppl that want to keep the same heart of the car but make it better, and the ones that does not care how you get there as long as it makes power. The latter doesnít benefit the community as a whole but does make you unique. And I guess thatís a hard one to pull off being unique and still keeping the heart of the car.

  9. #39
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    If this were a group of even back yard engine builders discussing how to get more out of one of these motors, the opinions would have more impact. But since all of you guys bought your motors, it's not really what "you" can do with the motor, it's what is available to buy. Big difference.

    I've built many of these motors in various configurations for many people. Corey was the most willing and able to fix whatever might go wrong when living on the edge, but even then, when it broke it came back to me to fix. Of course, it's what I do, so why not? Well, I can't fix everyone's problems. All the time.

    I currently have 5 or 6 SC's sitting here waiting for engine repairs because the owner can't fix, or can't deal with the problems that came about due to running "on the edge" with their van motor. This is a really big problem. If you you can't fix something that goes wrong then why have something running at 9/10's of what it could possibly/theoretically be capable of? To me it doesn't make sense.

    Sure a lot more could be done, but why? All it seems to do is create more problems. Since melted pistons, broken ring lands, and blown headgaskets seem to be the biggest problem, how come no one is running active knock detection/prevention? Has no one heard of it before? Has no one figured out how to install one? We can't move forward if we keep going backward.
    Last edited by XR7 Dave; 12-23-2018 at 08:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  10. #40
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    Good point DD. Guess the fact that the car is rare bites once more cause nobody including yourself hasnít put a kit out saying. Step one, unplug the stock sensor. Two, plug adapter harness. Three, load tune. Four throw whatever boost you want at it and enjoy living on the ragged edge.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    Good point DD. Guess the fact that the car is rare bites once more cause nobody including yourself hasnít put a kit out saying. Step one, unplug the stock sensor. Two, plug adapter harness. Three, load tune. Four throw whatever boost you want at it and enjoy living on the ragged edge.
    That's totally unrealistic. You can't even get that for a Fox body Mustang. Those guys have the same struggles we do, you just don't hear about it as much. I know. I work with them too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    Once of them comes with a two-axle trailer.
    That was outstanding

    93 SC Whipple powered 11.648 @ 119.6
    Twin Turbo, air intercooled..yet to see

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenewagner View Post
    That was outstanding
    Trailer is optional w/the other one

    Cop asked me one time "you think you got some kind of race engine under that hood!!??" (for some reason they don't like it when you outrun their spotter plane) - told him not to open it...the devil was in there, and he was pissed.
    Last edited by KMT; 12-26-2018 at 02:07 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira R. View Post
    Let me first confess for those of you who don't know me or my car, that I am an Autorotor guy and it is the reason I overlooked all of the problems the car had when I bought it. It is the sole reason I bought the car. Now to what David wrote.

    What you say is all very true, but what I think Ricardo and you forget, and I am surprised because you have always been a proponent of experimenting with what it takes to make the SC bigger and better, is that we're building these cars because it is what we do. We accept the challenge of making the engines bigger and better. Sure, we can go out and buy something with 500rwhp but what fun is that? Call it a hobby if you like, but this isn't about seeing what an aftermarket engine can do. It's about seeing what our engines can do. Now some of us have done a lot more experimenting than others, so I don't know that making comparisons between cars and blowers and what we did to make our engines run better is fair. But I think what it comes down to is whether or not you are of a mind to see what you can learn from what someone else did and build something bigger and better.

    Now if that is not what you have in mind that's fine too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a clean stock SC running as it should. In fact, I would argue that doing that may very well be more difficult than trying to build something more. But that is not what this thread is about. Sorry.

    For myself, I still don't think we have reached the limit of what the engine can do.
    Ira,

    10 or 15 years ago I was all about making more power and going quicker on the track. Now days, I still want the power or most of it, but I also want the car to be comfortable to drive. So now I'm more interested in doing things that make the car look good and feel good to drive. So stuff like a tighter torque converter, smoother driveshaft, good sounding stereo, exhaust and working AC are more important than making another 30 rwhp or running 10.8 instead of 10.9. You can blame some of that on my age, but I think most of it comes from driving and modding a 2014 Shelby GT500 and more recently a 2016 Challenger Hellcat. With the modern muscle cars you can have big power and not give up reliability or the creature comforts.

    I love my SC, but no matter how much time and money I put into it...it will never be as good as the modern muscle cars.

    David
    Last edited by David Neibert; 12-26-2018 at 02:15 PM.
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat.............10.597 @ 135.78

    My Garage

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    I think some of us don't want to swap anything really. And yes a set of heads even with a marginal improved intake manifold would be beneficial, I don't feel the intake is as much of a handicap as we make it out to be. Yes longer runners are good for top end HP but the blower is shoving air so less of a variable. Looking at my coyote set up with the PD blower the manifold is nothing to brag about and has the built in IC. But I'm not engine specialist in this group so its all speculation. My point was that the current blower offerings is plenty. Don't forget a street sc engine is not the same as a Race set up, and a 4.3 vs 3.8 also behave differently.
    I only mentioned the manifold because a major improvement to the heads will usually involve changes to the intake ports/runners and is likely to require a new intake manifold to match. I also recall the air flow issues Mike Tuck had with the awesome looking intake manifold he built to mount the 2.3 Whipple in a bottom discharge configuration. Just saying that it will take a lot more than a better flowing set of heads.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat.............10.597 @ 135.78

    My Garage

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