Double Intercooler vs. Front Mount

plev72

Registered User
A few intercooler questions for the guys in the know. What does the MagnumPowers front mounted intercooler actually do in terms of horsepower? Looking at the details it provides a claimed 300 hp or something there abouts and the implication is that the 70 or 100 hp rwhp gain is from the Intercooler all alone...reading the fine print I see things about various other things to make the car breath better... all in all I found the description rather confusing.

Anywho, 2 questions:

1) Are intercoolers directional? That is to say, could you reverse the inlet and the outlet?

2) How much of an increase in power do you get from the magnum powers intercooler vs. a double intercooler?
They make a big point of how much better theirs breaths, but I have serious doubts that it breaths $1200 or there abouts better than buying a 2nd used intercooler and getting it welded.

If anyone is feeling like doing some more significant typing, I understand that the intercooler is used to decrease the temperature of the air going into the supercooler thus allowing a significantly greater quantity of air to get sucked in, can anyone provide more detail?
 
Plev...Welcome Back...

I will take a chance and put in my two cents...

The DBL. IC vs the FMIC...

OK...DBL IC:

1. Uses Stock IC Tubes "Could Be Modified" vs 3" Tubing w/less bends and high temp. areas.

2. Located in Poor Position for Air Flow vs Optimam flow area

3. It has a smaller front mass "AREA" to catch what little air it has access to. vs. A huge mass area to catch FRESH air.

4. A/C condenser sits right in front of it as well. vs. Nothing in front of it.

5. "PLUS" to the DBL IC = Less hassle to fit in SC engine cavity, as well as being a lot less DOE RAE ME...To most of us this makes the diff... vs. More hassle and a whole lot more cash and Ponies at the tires...


Cheers
 
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are they directional? Can the intake and exhaust be reversed?? there is an actual method to my madness ;-)

Thanks
 
little more info

This is what I have read on the post here and there.

The stock IC flows 250cc

The double flows 350cc

That's what I have seen posted.

the FMIC is supposed to flow 700cc.

So if you look at efficiancy then the Front mount will win because there will be less drag in the ic system leaving you with more mover pressure that will make it to the engine easier making the sc more efficiant and that's not considering the the extra cooling it will do.

As for it being directional that's an interesting question but the way to find out would be to look into your stock IC and look at the tiny inlets on both sides and if they look the same then that gives you an idea. Second would be to look at where the tubes are hooked and emagine air flowing from and to it and see what is more restrictive knowing that the way the stock IC flows.
Well I will look when I get home and see.

Well that's my 2 1/2 cents

Raymond
 
I think you misunderstood the hp gains claimed by Magnum Powers. It's states that the car dynoed over 300 hp using ALL of the components, including the intake, inlet plenum, ported blower, top, and FMIC. They saw 35 hp gains to the rear wheels from the FMIC, not 70-100. Also, it seems you based the the false horsepower gains off of the stock CRANK power rating and the dynoed REAR WHEEL power rating, without taking drivetrain loss into consideration. I feel the DBL IC doesn't do that much good. Will it be an improvement, yes. But not near as much as a Front mount IC. Even with a dbl IC, you still have the same location(heated up by radiator, blocked by AC Condensor) and you still have the same inlets/outlets and tubes. The IC tubes themselves are even worse in design and performance than the IC even. So even with a DBL IC, if you still have the stock tubes I doubt you will see much of a gain in hp. When talking about IC's, you also need to consider pressure drops across it. With the stock IC, you can expect about a 3.5% pressure drop, as compared with a good FMIC unit of about .5%. That is huge! Charles Warner wrote some good info about Intercoolers. Check out the link for more info. Good luck.

Thomas

IC INFO
 
i was considering reaplacing the stock intercooler tubes with 3'' tubes and putting 3'' inlet and outlets on the intercooler...also i am removing my ac and everything that goes with it so the ac condensor would not be in the way....how would this setup work?
 
If you just want to make the charge air cooler, then you can certainly look at alternatives to the FMI. A good one to look at is propane injection.

But the FMI gives you something that you would need to bench test with any mods you make to a standard intercooler. That is flow rates. The more air that can flow through the intercooler, the more potential power you can create.

Obviously, the stock intercooler can not flow anywhere close to the FMI unit. Any mods you make to yours you should be able to take to a shop and have it flow tested to compare.
 
I'm not sure the 3" tubes with a stock intercooler and top would be much of an improvement over stock. If you are going to do that much work I would also at least make a raised top with enlarged opening and a double intercooler to assist with the new pipe sizes.
 
My garage logic just thought of why a big in and out might not help the double IC much.

You have to also take into account the available surface area to transfer the heat. If you increase the tube diameters you can increase your flow rate. But if you don't also increase your surface area, the increased flow rate will mean a decrease in temperature drop.

The key is to find the ideal balance. From the figures for the FMI, it seems they have come a long way to finding the right balance.
 
And to throw just a little more into the mix...A single IC will have it's limits due to it's effective cross-sectional area. Anyone know what the actuall area of the core is? I can just see j57ltr gettin' his micrometer & calculator outa the toolbox...

'bird
 

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get rid of the ic

run the outlet pipe directly into return inlet and use propane injection , $375- $400 and save alot of money.
 
Manny that is exactly what I was going to try to do and see what happens with the boost, compared to when the ic system was in there. I have found from some people who test the stock ic with no fan there pretty is no temp change. With a fan you gain what 5 horses.

Think of it this way with more restrictions in there. The more heat from the build up of pressure. This is wish a stock ic system.

There is more pressure in there than the boost gauge shows.

Has anyone tried running the pipe like that?

Raymond
 
intercoolers

:D this is the first time on the forum for me so here goes. Icant afford big money intercoolers. My solution was to remove the stock intercooler. then get a shorter air conditioning condensor.I then ran tubes to a volvo intercoolerthatis mounted in front of the condensor. It has to be laid back at a angle but it fits. Tim
 
Propane has been tested already.....

Dont go jumping on the propane bandwagon just yet. 1st of all, just adding propane and spraying it, you will lose hp. Yes that right... lose hp.

Reason? Its a secondary fuel source thats not being accounted for. So what happens is you run Pig Rich and kill your power. It requires dyno tuning to get it to work properly.


Chris
 
Hey, here's my .02!!!!

:D

I would look at it in this order. A stock SC will be fine with a stock IC with just a IC fan. If you decide to mod the engine, this creates more heat. The more heat created, the more work the intercooler has to do. The Stock IC was designed for STOCK APPLICATIONS!!!! With an intercooler fan , you can achieve much cooler temps and with shortened A/C condenser, this is more visible.

If you do a lot of mods, a front mount is the way to go. More surface area to air contact makes for lower intake temps meaning more HP!!!! HP is made with cold air and fuel. Hence the cold air inductions and such.

The front mount will help create more HP in a modified motor. In stock form, a SC MIGHT SEE about 10 HP increase.

With ALL possible mods, about 30 HP.


Just my .02

Don
 
you were injecting to much propane?

or have to large injectors. it is meant for over drive blowers higher boost levels . such as my inverted blower with stock pulley makeing 15-16 lbs boost cant wait to try a 10% pulley on it with propane injection. I have no ic on my current setup.just propane injection testing next week. maybe I will take to dyno first and test it it seems to run great in my driveway.no smoke no richness no delayed throttle responce, infact it reves fast as hell.way better than it ever did.
 
NO & NO

you were injecting to much propane?

The more we injected, the more hp we lost equally. It didnt matter how little or much was injected, it lost power equally. 1/2 turn, lost 10hp, full turn lost 20hp, etc.

or have to large injectors.

It has nothing to do with injectors. Without the propane, the car was a perfect 12.1 a/f.

Again I will explain for all you non listeners. The propane is an additional fuel source. I understand that it shoots out very cold, but the problem is that it that its a fuel source that is not monitored. So what you are doing is dumping excess fuel in and running the engine way rich. You will have to be on a dyno and pull fuel from the injectors when are straying to set it up right, otherwise you are just going to LOSE hp period.

Chris
 
Chris is talking about my car. Last weekend we tested the propane injection on the dyno (3 pulls) baseline 283 RWHP.

Test #1 (80 psi and needle valve open 2 of 6 turns) lost 40 RWHP pulling 243 RWHP and the AF ratio was off the chart at more than 9:1.

Test#2 (65 psi and needle open 1-1/2 of 6 turns) lost 20 RWHP pulling about 263 RWHP and still running rich at about 10:1.

Since I couldn't lean the fuel out or add more timing (already at 28 degrees WOT) there was no power gains to be found.

I plan to get the chip reburned to add more timing and lean out the WOT fuel curve when spraying the propane. Since I'm currently swapping cams and installing a FMIC I will need a reburned chip anyway.

David
 
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