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Thread: How to: 4r70w swap

  1. #16
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    al.
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    trans/fitment ?

    while we are on the subject would this be the right choice for my 95 with few or no modifications ? im just looking for a quick in and out no performance enhancements or ecu changes will it work? seller doesnt know thanks

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/170661154595...S:1123&vxp=mtr

  2. #17
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    ...........................
    Last edited by 90coug; 06-10-2012 at 05:07 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90coug View Post
    Anlo, I don't think your find will work, that one looks like it's for the 4.6 V8 motor.


    -B
    Agree here. Need one for a v6 not a GT.
    ~Chris
    SCCoA Member #1826
    Riding jack stands.

  4. #19
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    ..........
    Last edited by decipha; 10-30-2012 at 09:18 AM. Reason: i was wrong

  5. #20
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    If you unplug it that is what you get, but with it plugged in and a 24 count oss the transmission hunts for gears, shifts early, downshifts back, upshifts, downshifts. They use the reference somewhere I haven't looked through the files to know but I learned by accident on a 95SC. I had to pay for the tune to be fixed to correct it, lessons learned that way are not easily forgotten. The OSS is also used to calculate driveshaft rpms for max speed on most everything. I never understood why they used a vss and an oss because both are essentially the same but they did.
    Alan

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90coug View Post
    Can you go into more detail about the adjustment to the PCM, to help cure this flare?


    Anlo, I don't think your find will work, that one looks like it's for the 4.6 V8 motor.


    -B
    I know it can be done however I do not know the specifics, unfortunately I am just learning on the tuning changes.
    Alan

  7. #22
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    Bryce,

    It is my understanding that you can keep the same speedo gear and just adjust it in the tune.

    The 4R70W transmission gear ratios are:

    1st 2.84:1
    2nd 1.55:1
    3rd 1:1
    4th .70:1

    So, say you upgraded to 3.73 rear gear ratio, you get the increase in ratio by dividing the new gear into the stock ratio.
    3.73/3.27 = 1.14

    Then multiply the trans gear ratios by the increase in ratio:

    2.84*1.14 = 2.238 new calculated 1st gear ratio.

    Continue on with the rest of the gears.

    Put your new values in the tables shown in the attached screenshot.

    Now what I am not sure of his how this is accounted for in your '95 calibration with the 3.31 rear ratio.. If you could read the factory ROM it would be neat to see if it is compensated for in the tune, or what the deal is.

    Maybe Dave Dalkie or Frasier could chime in?

    Jeramie
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  8. #23
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    Also,

    The 3-4 shift flare isn't that bad, but it is really noticable when cold. Once the trans warms up you hardly notice it.

    It basically feels like the 3-4 shift slips a little at light throttle, when cold.

    My old '94 with the '03 trans does this.

    I bet it could be corrected in the attached table, but i am waiting for stephen to get his QH and software so we can play with it. Stephen bought my old '94.

    Jeramie
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  9. #24
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    The gear must be adjusted in the tune but until you get the speedometer corrected the values the pcm is getting are not correct. The proper way is to do both as the computer does not control the speedometer, only a speedcal or dakota digital unit can fix this.
    Alan

  10. #25
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    with all this talk of the 3-4 slip i took it upon myself to find out more, so i loaded in the stock tune and i too noticed the 3-4 slip

    this is due to the ecu reducing the tv pressure on the 3-4 shift, it reduces so much that it doesn't have enough line pressure and for a moment you experience a neutral drop, i never noticed this before because i put a tune on my 95 auto the day i bought it and my 91 titanium doesn't have stock shift pressures either, i don't even think about the changes i make in the calibration its just second nature to me so i've never experienced this before today since i've never ran the stock tune

    in any case you can resolve this issue rather easily. I recommend setting:

    TVPMIN_ENG to 10 "tv pressure minimum engagement stall pressure"
    TVPMINPT_ENG to 20 "tv pressure minimum engagement stall pressure at part throttle"

    these scalars will clip the minimum tv pressure resulting in no neutral drop


    hope this helps someone
    Last edited by decipha; 10-30-2012 at 09:23 AM.

  11. #26
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    ........................
    Last edited by 90coug; 06-10-2012 at 05:07 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92bird View Post
    Bryce,

    It is my understanding that you can keep the same speedo gear and just adjust it in the tune.

    The 4R70W transmission gear ratios are:

    1st 2.84:1
    2nd 1.55:1
    3rd 1:1
    4th .70:1

    So, say you upgraded to 3.73 rear gear ratio, you get the increase in ratio by dividing the new gear into the stock ratio.
    3.73/3.27 = 1.14

    Then multiply the trans gear ratios by the increase in ratio:

    2.84*1.14 = 2.238 new calculated 1st gear ratio.

    Continue on with the rest of the gears.

    Put your new values in the tables shown in the attached screenshot.

    Now what I am not sure of his how this is accounted for in your '95 calibration with the 3.31 rear ratio.. If you could read the factory ROM it would be neat to see if it is compensated for in the tune, or what the deal is.

    Maybe Dave Dalkie or Frasier could chime in?

    Jeramie

    where did you get this utter ~~~~~~~~ from? who ever gave you that information needs to just give up on calibrating any engine management computer, simply logic will tell you that since the gear ratio in the transmission didn't change that the gear ratio's remain the same


    the speedometer on the supercoupes are fed straight from the vehicle speed sensor, it DOES NOT GO THROUGH THE COMPUTER!!! therefore there is nothing you can do in the computer to change the speedometer.

    unless the transmission gear ratio's have changed, DO NOT ADJUST THE TRANSMISSION GEAR RATIOS

    the only thing the above will achieve is screwing up the computers calculations

    if you change the rear end gear or tire size and the ecu isn't calculating vehicle speed correctly, you need to update the nvbase scalar, that value is rpm/mph in 3rd, then you'll need to update the constant, by multiplying nvbase by the update counter, which is usually 4.

    now your ecu's calculated vehicle speed will be accurate for the new rear end gear, you'd probably want to reschedule the shift points now to compensate for the gear ratio change

  13. #28
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    I can agree to that on the 94/95 sc's not changing much related to the vss but the oss does make changes. Later cars if the vss is wrong they shift strange but i have never had that problem on a 94/95 sc. That tell you they must rely on the oss. It is actually dumb to have both since they both do the same thing in a different way. Ford got rid of the vss for all 99+ vehicles, they retained the mechanical function until sometime in 03. To me buying the 03/04 transmission is a better use of your money because cost to change them over even if you do have to pay labor isn't much, just making it work could easily be done for under $200 it is the improvements while you are in there that make it add up. If you add up the cost to ,ake a pre03 transmission as good as the 03 transmission you'll have about $500 in hard parts alone.
    Alan

  14. #29
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    where did you get this utter ~~~~~~~~ from?
    Read it somewhere on TCCoA a while back, i'll have to see if i can find it..

    I've never messed with it, since i have not changed gears.

    Jeramie
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by decipha View Post
    you need to update the nvbase scalar, that value is rpm/mph in 3rd, then you'll need to update the constant, by multiplying nvbase by the update counter, which is usually 4.

    now your ecu's calculated vehicle speed will be accurate for the new rear end gear, you'd probably want to reschedule the shift points now to compensate for the gear ratio change

    I found the nvbase scalar, where can I make sure this update counter is actually 4? Is this the NOVCNT scalar?

    So if I change the rear gears, I should drive around in third, note the rpm and MPH, and then input the data into NVBASE? I'm a little foggy on this constant update?

    Shift points, can you elaborate on this?

    Update: I think I found the constant ... NVBASE_X_NVC
    Last edited by 90coug; 11-26-2011 at 01:02 PM.

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