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Thread: How to: 4r70w swap

  1. #31
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    Apr 2007
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    New Orleans, LA
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    yes novcnt is the update counter

    correct, make sure your not getting torque multiplication from the converter I.E. make sure its locked

    so if you cruise at 60mph and your engine speed is 2,760 rpm

    2760/60=46 your new nvbase value

    the constant is the value of nvbase x novcnt
    in this example, 46 * 4 = 184

    nvbase_x_nvc new value should then be set to 184

    this is how the ecu calculates vehicle speed from the vss input
    doing the aforementioned will have the ecu speed calculation correct

    the shift points other than WOT are interpolated in the sealevel shift functions. I usually dummy it down to 2 points to make it easier to calculate, also reduces the chance of a mistake like having the downshift speed higher than the upshift speed which is a common mistake when folks try to reiterate the shift schedules.

  2. #32
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    Bump time, if I am understanding this correct somebody with an AOD Thunderbird can swap in a 4R70W without having to use a stand alone controller? You just have to do some things with the wiring harness and get a QH?

  3. #33
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    Eastern (nee Western) PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms-SC View Post
    Bump time, if I am understanding this correct somebody with an AOD Thunderbird can swap in a 4R70W without having to use a stand alone controller? You just have to do some things with the wiring harness and get a QH?
    No, that stuff is not in the AOD cars' computers. You would need to swap to a 94+ computer.
    God bless!!!

    1990 SC auto ... red outside, gray cloth inside ... ~180,000 miles (and climbing) ... driven daily!

  4. #34
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    Westminster, CO
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    No, that stuff is not in the AOD cars' computers. You would need to swap to a 94+ computer.
    Which requires, I believe matching '94 components, such as 94+ crank trigger, 94+ eDIS module etc. Also not sure how the '94 auto computer will react without the inputs and outputs for traction assist, which implements torque reduction, etc..

    I think Dave Neibert looked into this and decided it was much simpler to use a stand alone system.

    I had implemented a 4R70W into my '92 5 speed using a pretty advanced stand alone system from Powertrain Control Solutions (pricey).. But they now offer a simpler version that doesn't require a laptop. Just plug it in, and adjust dials for shift firmness and shift points. It is more affordable too.

    Check out www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com

    Jeramie
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  5. #35
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    Aug 2002
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    I was hoping you'd chime in Jeramie. Did you solve your shift flaring when you had the 4R70W?

  6. #36
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    Did you solve your shift flaring when you had the 4R70W?
    Well, the shift flare was on my old '94 SC when I put an '03 trans in it. I sold that car to a local friend who just got his QH.. We are going to try to tune it out with the QH.. Pretty sure it can be done without much effort.

    I never had the flare problem with the stand alone in my '92. Nice thing about the stand alone is that it doesn't use a VSS sensor, so that means you can put even the latest/newest 4R70w's without regard to if they have vss teeth, or how many vss teeth they have. The stand alone simulates a vss signal for your speedo and EEC input, and the output is adjustable so you can recalibrate your speedometer and make it exact.

    Jeramie
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  7. #37
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    Aug 2002
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    Thanks Jeremy. I was worried that the PCS controller was the cause of the issue through some software limitation. I'm fairly positive I'll be making this swap at some point in time in the near future. I did notice that they now offer two controllers. Any thoughts about the differences?

    http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...impleshift.php

    vrs

    http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...anscontrol.php
    Last edited by Toms-SC; 02-14-2012 at 06:41 PM.

  8. #38
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    If you end up doing it, feel free to give me a call. Their new simple version is pretty cool, but I really liked having "full control" of everything on the full version.

    That whole stand alone setup is on my best friend's '93 SC now, so I still get to tweak with it (when his car is running, LOL).. I have several calibration files I could share to get you started, and I can save you lots of time setting it up.

    The full PCS controller like I had is extremely powerful, auxilary inputs, outputs, etc.. You can use it to control various other non-transmission related things too.. Like using an ACT input to turn on your intercooler fan at a certain ACT temp. It also can act like an RPM/WOT window switch for nitrous., you can use the outputs to illuminate an indicator light, or trigger a relay for various things, and control their operation with the software.

    Very, very powerful.. Especially when you tap into the resistor based cruise control switches, and use them for manual shifting/manual tq converter locking, etc.. I could go on and on.. One guy used it on his Cobra, and used his ABS inputs to enable a boost-bypass solenoid controlled traction control, which opened the boost bypass valve a certain amount per % variation of wheel speeds comparing the front and rear axles. Outputs can be analog, digital, or PWM. Again, very powerful

    Jeramie
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  9. #39
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    Location
    Westminster, CO
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    The $750 version is the one I used, and was describing above. The simple version looks neat, but you get so much more technology in the $750 version.. It all depends on what you want out of it.

    The advanced version allows you to change between two different calibrations as well. Have a soft shifting, fuel economy mode, then a track or performance mode at the flip of a switch. Did you ever see my videos of it in operation?

    See here: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthre...ht=4r70w+video

    Jeramie
    Last edited by 92bird; 02-14-2012 at 06:56 PM.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Amarillo, Texas
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    465
    I'm definitely doing this swap after I get my 89 sc running good. Hopefully soon

  11. #41
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    Jul 2003
    Location
    Ottawa, Ohio
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    What transmission harness can you use, I found 97 Tbird 4.6 trans harness on ebay or does the PCS system come with a complete harness?
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
    1990 SC AOD 2.1L Kenne Bell
    11.676 @ 121.35 mph

    My Garage

  12. #42
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    Jul 2003
    Location
    Ottawa, Ohio
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    Alan,

    What would it take for an ~'03 4R70W to be beefed up to handle 450rwhp and 450rwtq behind an AR car? I found quite a few trans local from $175 for a 155k 2002, $350 for a 45k 2003, and up to $600, all are 01-03 V6 Mustangs.
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
    1990 SC AOD 2.1L Kenne Bell
    11.676 @ 121.35 mph

    My Garage

  13. #43
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    Apr 2002
    Location
    Westminster, CO
    Posts
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    What transmission harness can you use, I found 97 Tbird 4.6 trans harness on ebay or does the PCS system come with a complete harness?
    You can buy a pre-made harness from PCS, and it makes it easy.. Or you can get a stock ford harness and modify it.

    97 and prior trans needs a 97 and prior harness.. 98+ trans needs a 98+ harness. I think I have a spare unmolested 98+ mustang trans harness in my storage.. If you want it - send me a message and just pay shipping and its yours.

    At 450whp/450wtq a stock late model 4R70w with just valve body modifications/accumulator mods (j-mod) would probably hold up fine.. But there are certain long term reliability issues, and many improvements that can be addressed in an overhaul. Don't overlook a good converter either.. I used an updated 2004 factory mach 1/marauder converter and it made a great street converter. A little tight for the track, but plenty to boil the tires on the street. I'll leave the converter recommendations to Alan, as he's the expert, and who I will go to for my future converter needs.

    Jeramie
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #2 - 45k original miles.
    1994 Thunderbird SC Auto #1 - Police package heads/96 N/A motor test mule. SOLD
    1992 Thunderbird SC 5 speed. Mostly stock now, former 345.5 rwhp/402.8 rwtq monster. - SOLD after 12 years of ownership
    2000 Grand Prix GTP -Turbo conversion, billet precision 5858 CEA turbo .63 T3 hotside. Stock supercharged longblock with N/A top end, numbers coming soon.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    3,627
    Ryan,

    If you are seriously pursuing this swap as well I think we should attempt a group buy on the PCS controllers. I suspect that 4R70W swaps are going to be the 'new hot ~~~~' as people attempt to maximize the power they are producing.

  15. #45
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    Jul 2003
    Location
    Ottawa, Ohio
    Posts
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    Not contemplating the swap at the moment, but more of a long term project. I may start to purchase items little be little, since my current AOD is holding up.

    Jeramie thanks for the reply I may take you up on that harness. Also can the AOD shifter be used or does a 4r70 equipped car shifter need to go in along with the matching cable? I planned on having Alan go thru it if I did the swap and spec the converter.
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
    1990 SC AOD 2.1L Kenne Bell
    11.676 @ 121.35 mph

    My Garage

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