Toms-SC
Registered User
If all goes well it will be a production piece with baffles and kickout.
Could this pan be easily adopted to a similar style timing cover?
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If all goes well it will be a production piece with baffles and kickout.
I thought I did post about the bottom, but maybe I just posted a picture. The rods are Scat 6.200 H-beams, pistons are custom Wiseco, rings are Total Seal SS gapless race rings. Pistons are ceramic coated on top, moly graphite on the skirts. The stud girdle is a Morana piece that didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. After a lot of milling, fitment issues, and clearance problems we finally got it to fit but then it tugged and pulled on the caps so badly we had to line hone the block to match. I finally got that all sorted out and it is now assembled with a windage tray.
Since we are waiting on the timing chain I've been unable to complete the last steps of the shortblock. Cam selection reflects a bit of a compromise between all out HP and street manners. Since this car is going to be driven on the street 98% of the time, we didn't want to kill sub 2000rpm response so we settled on a 236/244 grind @ .625" lift.
Clearances are a little on the loose side across the board, but we wanted to make sure that it lives through the occasions that it does see high rpm and high load so it all fits with our end goal for this motor.
Thats impressive cam specs. I remember when .570 lift was big. I was thinking that like the performance in the last couple of years, what was big a few years ago is now very tame. Makes me wonder how tame my cam will be considered in another year. I am impressed at how we continue to learn to push performance levels in these cars. I see more 500 rwhp cars in the future.
Ken
I think you may be taking this out of context a little. This cam is not radical and represents nothing new in engine building that wasn't out there 2-4-8-10 years ago. What is different perhaps is the fact that we are no longer rpm limited by our blowers being too small and so as a result we are able to look at other things that limit rpm. In the case of most SC owners, your hydraulic roller cam setups are limited by the fact that your motors were built when you were rpm limited by your blowers. As we started to move past the blower limitation then the next limitation became valvetrain stability and valve bounce/float. Even with good blowers, a hydraulic roller system is still heavy and it is limited by the amount of spring pressure you can put on the lifters before they start to bleed down at high rpm.
What this all boils down to is that in order to run an aggressive cam profile (not a new technology by any means) you have to be able to maintain control and stability in the valvetrain. In the case of this build, since we won't have blower rpm issues to deal with we are building the valvetrain for higher rpm capability and as a result duration has to be increased. Valve lift is of secondary importance. In fact any lift over about .570 is wasted on these heads because they just don't flow above that value but the key is not peak lift but rather area under the curve. This cam profile generates a lot of area under the curve while not killing idle vacuum or drivability and the .625 lift is just a result of that quick action. This type of profile is not possible in a hydraulic roller cam due to the very quick ramp rates. In this case we have applied a systems approach using different parts but yet commonly available technology with a somewhat fresh set of ideas.
People will not be able to just pop one of these cams into their SC over the weekend. This cam profile requires a systems approach including some custom hardware and careful planning. Stay tuned for more info as we move along. The cam is installed at this point, but the cool stuff that makes it work is still to come.
Interesting considering the conversations we had when choosing my cam. I am very interested to see how it behaves on the street.
Ira
I think you may be taking this out of context a little. This cam is not radical and represents nothing new in engine building that wasn't out there 2-4-8-10 years ago. What is different perhaps is the fact that we are no longer rpm limited by our blowers being too small and so as a result we are able to look at other things that limit rpm. In the case of most SC owners, your hydraulic roller cam setups are limited by the fact that your motors were built when you were rpm limited by your blowers. As we started to move past the blower limitation then the next limitation became valvetrain stability and valve bounce/float. Even with good blowers, a hydraulic roller system is still heavy and it is limited by the amount of spring pressure you can put on the lifters before they start to bleed down at high rpm.
What this all boils down to is that in order to run an aggressive cam profile (not a new technology by any means) you have to be able to maintain control and stability in the valvetrain. In the case of this build, since we won't have blower rpm issues to deal with we are building the valvetrain for higher rpm capability and as a result duration has to be increased. Valve lift is of secondary importance. In fact any lift over about .570 is wasted on these heads because they just don't flow above that value but the key is not peak lift but rather area under the curve. This cam profile generates a lot of area under the curve while not killing idle vacuum or drivability and the .625 lift is just a result of that quick action. This type of profile is not possible in a hydraulic roller cam due to the very quick ramp rates. In this case we have applied a systems approach using different parts but yet commonly available technology with a somewhat fresh set of ideas.
People will not be able to just pop one of these cams into their SC over the weekend. This cam profile requires a systems approach including some custom hardware and careful planning. Stay tuned for more info as we move along. The cam is installed at this point, but the cool stuff that makes it work is still to come.
So in a nut shell. Twin screws superchargers and Yella Terra rockers (and other possible goodies) have allowed us to actually use a solid lifter cam to it's fullest extent and actually make real power.
In Ira's case, we hadn't stumbled upon the rockers yet.
In the case of this build, since we won't have blower rpm issues to deal with we are building the valvetrain for higher rpm capability and as a result duration has to be increased. Valve lift is of secondary importance. In fact any lift over about .570 is wasted on these heads because they just don't flow above that value but the key is not peak lift but rather area under the curve. This cam profile generates a lot of area under the curve while not killing idle vacuum or drivability and the .625 lift is just a result of that quick action. This type of profile is not possible in a hydraulic roller cam due to the very quick ramp rates. In this case we have applied a systems approach using different parts but yet commonly available technology with a somewhat fresh set of ideas.
What this all boils down to is that in order to run an aggressive cam profile (not a new technology by any means) you have to be able to maintain control and stability in the valvetrain. In the case of this build, since we won't have blower rpm issues to deal with we are building the valvetrain for higher rpm capability and as a result duration has to be increased. Valve lift is of secondary importance. In fact any lift over about .570 is wasted on these heads because they just don't flow above that value but the key is not peak lift but rather area under the curve. This cam profile generates a lot of area under the curve while not killing idle vacuum or drivability and the .625 lift is just a result of that quick action. This type of profile is not possible in a hydraulic roller cam due to the very quick ramp rates. In this case we have applied a systems approach using different parts but yet commonly available technology with a somewhat fresh set of ideas.
As I recall in our discussions street-ability was a consideration when choosing the cam. So what I was referring to was your comment regarding anything over .570 lift. Since I don't fully follow your explanation of the "area under the curve"
As I recall in our discussions street-ability was a consideration when choosing the cam. So what I was referring to was your comment regarding anything over .570 lift. Since I don't fully follow your explanation of the "area under the curve" I am simply saying that I will be curious to see how the car performs in the lower rpm range with that lift.
Ira
Finally, a BIG CAM!!!! I did a .599"/.610" lift cam some 8 YEARS AGO
Thought I would pop in for some nostalgia reading.
I pm'd you about those but didn't get a response. Your thread about them didn't seem to pan out into anything. Did you ever get some made?
The pan is being worked on by a member here. If all goes well it will be a production piece with baffles and kickout.
So for just to clairify, this is a solid lifter cam with YT valve train. How high to you expect to turn the motor RPM wise? Have you figured a way to improve on the heads. I realize the valve train such as I have limit me RPM wise but I
figured the heads are the ultimate limiting factor. Would a cam like David Neiberts be considered a hot cam with Hydralic lifters It is cool to see the SC evolving and becoming more powerful each year. Great job
Ken