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Thread: production numbers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    825

    production numbers

    ok, since we cleared up (why arn't these cars worth anything) i have a question about production numbers. i am the proud owner of a 94 five speed, a supposidly rare super coupe. i asked this question a while back and nobody stepped up to answer. my question is straight forward. the question is how did the sccoa come up with the production numbers that they publish as correct? i have talked to ford and they say those records were not kept. all that i can get is the total number of mn-12 birds. i have also talked to matt at the antique automobile club of america, he is unable to find any broken down production numbers. so where did these numbers come from ? i want to be able to prove that there were only 722 1994 five speed super coupes produced and a number from a thunder bird club won't cut it. i have gotten a build sheet from ford, i have traced my car to being sold new in california. not being able to prove production numbers in my opinion may just drive serious collectors away.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    767
    Not meaning to rain on your parade but, I like cars, I like driving cars, so attracting collectors to a model means that I want them to get so valuable that I (being on a semi-fixed income) cannot afford to buy and drive the cars I like. If you are looking for an investment , why not gold or silver or something and let the car people enjoy these mechanical beasties while we can.
    I'm an old codger and over the years have had some highly desirable vehicles, had I known collectors would one day share my tastes, I could have made some real money. Instead I had the pleasure of owning and DRIVING some of the finest products of Detroit (and other places). Cars like a 36 Ford five window coupe, 40 Mercury convertible, 57 Ford Hardtop convertible, 57 Chevy convertible, 65 GTO, 68 Mustang Fastback, 69 Mustang convertible with 428CJ, 73 Cuda 340, 63 1/2 Ford Galaxie500XL 427 side oiler, and my current fleet of a 54 Chevy 5 window pickup--(needs lots of work), My 86 Buick Regal T-Type (bought new) needs lots of work now a MonteCarloSS, An ElCamino and of course the Thunderbird SC. I've also had and have a lot of mundane functional vehicles. I just hate seeing them taken away from enthusiasts and put into showcases as trophies......Dan
    I don't think I have ever owned a car that was finished---unless it was totaled.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    825
    i could care less about what my car is worth. i want to know where the sccoa got the production numbers that they post, and so far nobody will even try to answer my question. i want to be able to prove at car shows what the car is and not what i say it might be. so your not raining on my parade. can anybody answer this question?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    St. Charles, MO
    Posts
    20,898
    Quote Originally Posted by 722 View Post
    i could care less about what my car is worth. i want to know where the sccoa got the production numbers that they post, and so far nobody will even try to answer my question. i want to be able to prove at car shows what the car is and not what i say it might be. so your not raining on my parade. can anybody answer this question?
    http://www.sccoa.com/faq/prodnums.php

    Why is it important to know who these numbers came from ? Just tell the people at car shows that SCCoA is the center of the universe for all things SC, and if they don't believe the numbers that have been posted here since 2002, to go find a better source. I don't know who the source of that info was, but I've never seen anything posted in the last 10 years that disputed their accuracy.

    If that's not good enough, just drop a few names from this Wikipedia article.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Th...nth_generation)

    David
    Last edited by David Neibert; 12-07-2012 at 06:50 PM.
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    825
    i guess david that it is only important to me. im kinda anal that way. thank you for at least giving me a decent answer. i will continue to search for something from other than the sccoa. again thanks.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Broad Run VA
    Posts
    487
    I am surprised that VINs do not indicated if a vehicle is a manual or an automatic. I just checked my new Mustang and my 94 SC 5 Speed VINs on line and they do not indicated transmission type in the VIN which seems kinda of dumb to me in case there are recalls on the transmission. I would still think that Ford or any auto manufacture has a way to know which vehicle has a manual or auto trans or not. Just my two cents worth.
    Red 94 5 Speed
    1 of 722

    2014 Carlisle 3rd Place Winner, 94-95 SCs
    2013 Carlisle 1st Place Winner, 94-95 SCs
    2012 Carlisle 2nd Place Winner, 94-95 SCs

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Eastern (nee Western) PA
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    4,991
    How about contacting Edmunds or Ward's Auto World or one of the other major magazines?

    Although "take rates" for the manual or auto transmissions may be hard to find, especially going that far back. Manufacturers usually keep that data in house for the most part, as far as I know.

    You shouldn't have much trouble convincing the general public that a manual tranmission SC is rare. Based on my conversations, most people are surprised to learn the Thunderbird was rear wheel drive. Show them the factory supercharger, and their jaws will drop. Show them the stick shift, they will probably faint right in front of you.
    God bless!!!

    1990 SC auto ... red outside, gray cloth inside ... ~205,000 miles (and climbing) ... driven daily!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    825
    the factory knows what they installed on each and every car produced. i have a build sheet on my sc. it indicates nothing in the vin about the transmission, but yet it has all options listed along with a (5-speed manual transmission (t-50d). so on a recall they know who to send out the letters to. i wanted a copy of the original window sticker, but no such luck. ford only goes back to 05. i have found out that my car was sold new in california. i will give edmunds a shot. i tried a site called (marti), apparently an employee of ford had the fore sight to buy records from ford that were to be destroyed and this web site bought them from her. they only went to 93 and no t-birds that new. just my luck. i will try edmunds Mr. Mazza, thank you. oh yeah one of the reasons i bought a build sheet was that ford said that it would have production numbers, it sure did. there are 126,256 ford thunderbirds produced. they didnt specify if that was just mn-12 chassis or not.

  9. #9
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    May 2008
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    san lorenzo
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    i think

    theres a sticker in the drivers side post with that info about if it's manual or if it has sun roof i know that it true cause i have my own cars and check that for sure it's true...
    1989 t-bird sc auto
    1992 t-bird sc 5 speed
    1995 t-bird sc 5 speed


    all stock but getting together some parts so i can have more fun!....

  10. #10
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    Apr 2003
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    Ventura, CA
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    1,747
    Quote Originally Posted by 722 View Post
    ] there are 126,256 ford thunderbirds produced. they didnt specify if that was just mn-12 chassis or not.
    That's about one good year of MN12 production. Also, our 5 speed is the M5R2.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    825
    that is true Mercutio, the five speed is the M5R2. but ford codes it as the t-50D on a production build sheet. i know this because i paid the money for the information and that is what ford coded the trans in a 1994 thunderbird supercoupe. it most likely would have a different number for an f-150. also the number quoated by me says production figures. it does not state total or just 94 or all birds made. this is what ford says. my car does not have the sticker on the drivers post. i dont believe that my car has been repainted and the sticker removed. i dont think it ever had a sticker, there is no mark of it ever being there. i would like to know how the sticker is to be decoded. what set of numbers and or letters tells if the car has a sunroof or a M5R2 transmission installed? also my build sheet gives my paint code witch should have been on the sticker attached to the driver side post. i may sound critical, and its because if you truly want to know what you have, you have to know what you got..

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    825
    that is true Mercutio, the five speed is the M5R2. but ford codes it as the t-50D on a production build sheet. i know this because i paid the money for the information and that is what ford coded the trans in a 1994 thunderbird supercoupe. it most likely would have a different number for an f-150. also the number quoated by me says production figures. it does not state total or just 94 or all birds made. this is what ford says. my car does not have the sticker on the drivers post. i dont believe that my car has been repainted and the sticker removed. i dont think it ever had a sticker, there is no mark of it ever being there. i would like to know how the sticker is to be decoded. what set of numbers and or letters tells if the car has a sunroof or a M5R2 transmission installed? also my build sheet gives my paint code witch should have been on the sticker attached to the driver side post. i may sound critical, and its because if you truly want to know what you have, you have to know what you got..

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    2,976
    You dont even have a door code sticker ?? Im guessing no Calibration sticker either ?

    The transmission is identified on the drivers door sticker, right next to the spring code JJJJ under the TR .. the m5r2 is code 2 and the 4r70w is a code U .. my 1994 Ford factory service manual however lists it as W and L. My 1994 5 speed SC has a code 2 so it looks like the Chiltons has more accurate information than the shop manual. Right next to the TR is the AX for axle code will be under that and the S for the sunroof, if you dont have a sunroof it would be blank. There is quite a bit of information on that tag alone. All of the decoding information is in the Ford service manual if you have the tag.

    Ive been waiting for the Marti report since I joined this site in 2006 .. quite a few more people are still waiting on that information. Youre not the first one to try to obtain this information from another source.

    I also got a Ford build sheet for my one of my 1994 SC's, says the engine is a 5.8L EFI V8. Not exactly what I was looking for.

    A buddy got me a Carfax that traced it to the original dealership, sold 1994 in Menlo Park, Ca.

    I was hoping one of my SC's would have still had the original factory build sheet that got hidden and tucked away while it was being built at the actual factory. Ive only found two in the last 10+ Tbirds ive owned ..

    - Dan

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    825
    nope no door sticker. and what is the calibration sticker? and where? i have owned this car for 11 maybe 12 years, so it was 6 or 7 years old when i bought it. i am 99% sure of the paint and no marks were a sticker may have ever been. my car was sold new in california, but i did an auto check and it didnt tell me were it was sold new. i think that i will try car fax. the report stated that my car started out new as a lease, rental, or fleet vehicle and was sold or traded at 20,00 miles. im going to try a couple of classic car dealers to see if they can find what i havent. i think that this is a very interesting journey. i also think that to be able to verify that a car is what its claimed to be would help out any and all owners of such vehicles. thank you Ddubb.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Orem, UT
    Posts
    5,902
    All cars sold have to have the door jam stickers. Yours must have been removed by the previous owner.

    My SC has the calibration sticker in the door jam as well. It has to do with the speedometer. I don't recall it being there originally though until I took the car in to get a new speedometer installed (my original one would stick at 45 mph until you gently touched the reset rod, then it would work above 45, and when you slow down it would stick at 45 again until you push the rod again and it would drop down under 45. I just replaced the whole thing.
    Scott Long
    1992 SC 5-speed
    Black on black leather, lowered, 18x9 Chrome Saleens...

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